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[Felix Lighter]

In a way, it's to help balance the game. People don't seem to realize that if you could pick and choose what to put on every Persona instantly, you'd rip everything a new butthole from about 25% into the game until the end. That's the tradeoff with the inheritance; sometimes if you want a really good Persona with awesome abilities that can tear things up, you have to earn it in one way or another. It's like going from a +20 attack weapon immediately to a +90 one that costs 5 gold at the next town.

I can understand that. I think there are ways of maintaining the balance, while removing the frustration. Perhaps skills could be weighted with some kind of point value and when fusing you would only be able to inherit a maximum number of points. For better or worse, it would remove the chance factor.

Really, I don't see myself obsessing over making the perfect persona though. I would probably just worry about inheriting one or two important skills and moving on. At this point, I'm leaning towards picking up Persona 4, even while I voluntarily spoil the game for myself on a daily basis.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Wow I actually browsed YouTube and found video walkthrough of the game and I must say its quite addicting (I have no means of playing the game). You all reminded me of that scene that i just saw where they fall into the tv. Classic!!!

Though the story is freaking me out, the "Midnight Channel"....

The music is my favorite part of the game.

 

[Error]

Well, it was easier to get money in P3, but that's about all that comes to mind. Aren't both games pretty cheap though? Play one, then play the other next summer or something.

FES was 15 bucks new at GS not so long ago.

 

[Error]

Dunno, but it was some sale GS had awhile ago. FFT and Castlevania PSP were very cheap, too.

 

[Yaweee]

In a way, it's to help balance the game. People don't seem to realize that if you could pick and choose what to put on every Persona instantly, you'd rip everything a new butthole from about 25% into the game until the end. That's the tradeoff with the inheritance; sometimes if you want a really good Persona with awesome abilities that can tear things up, you have to earn it in one way or another. It's like going from a +20 attack weapon immediately to a +90 one that costs 5 gold at the next town.

It might sound like choosing your inherited abilities would break the system, but that turned out to not be the case in either Raidou 2 or Devil Survivor. Raidou 2's enemies have far more HP relative to the average attack than most SMT games, so you're actually expected to use the fusion improvements, while I think Devi Survivor actually ended up the best balanced game in the series for a whole bunch of reasons.


Besides, it isn't like P3/P4's system prevented you from passing the best skills on to demons. It was only problematic when you're trying to pass many good skills at once, when they start displacing each other, and that isn't really necessary. Death magic + Boost is enough to one or two shot most random encounters in the game.

EDIT (Prices): Gamestop's Gamerdays sale had FES at $15, and FFT + Castlevania PSP at $10. The latter prices have gone back up, but FES looks like they still have it at the sale price. Can't order it online, though.

 

[falconzss]

This needs to be posted.

Hiimdaisy's long Persona 4 comic

SO AWESOME.

(and so true too ;p)

awesome indeed! more please :lol

 

[RocketDarkness]

It might sound like choosing your inherited abilities would break the system, but that turned out to not be the case in either Raidou 2 or Devil Survivor. Raidou 2's enemies have far more HP relative to the average attack than most SMT games, so you're actually expected to use the fusion improvements, and I think DS actually ended up the best balanced game in the series for a whole bunch of reasons.


Besides, it isn't like P3/P4's system prevented you from passing the best skills on to demons. It was only problematic when you're trying to pass many good skills at once, when they start displacing each other, and that isn't really necessary. Death magic + Boost is enough to one or two shot most random encounters in the game.

EDIT (Prices): Gamestop's Gamerdays sale had FES at $15, and FFT + Castlevania PSP at $10. The latter prices have gone back up, but FES looks like they still have it at the sale price. Can't order it online, though.

Devil Survivor has me addicted to creating the perfect demons. I must have spent at least five hours in that damn search function, hunting down the perfect demon fusing paths for maximum skill-age.

 

[Error]

I think you could get a bit *too* powerful in DS2 if you know what you are doing. Mage Craft coupled with (element) bonus and a skill like glacial blast is just plain nasty. Enemies go down way too quickly.

I really disagree with DS2 being the best balanced of the SMT games. I love the whole controlled inheritance for passive skills thing, but I would like more restriction when it comes to passing over stuff. I mention something like CP system that tri-Ace uses in their games, better skills require more CP. Also, I'd like to equip/unequip passive skills whenever I want, not just when I fuse monsters.

It's a good system but I think it needs some improvements here and there.

 

[Yaweee]

I think you could get a bit *too* powerful in DS2 if you know what you are doing. Mage Craft coupled with (element) bonus and a skill like glacial blast is just plain nasty. Enemies go down way too quickly.

I really disagree with DS2 being the best balanced of the SMT games. I love the whole controlled inheritance for passive skills thing, but I would like more restriction when it comes to passing over stuff. I mention something like CP system that tri-Ace uses in their games, better skills require more CP. Also, I'd like to equip/unequip passive skills whenever I want, not just when I fuse monsters.

It's a good system but I think it needs some improvements here and there.

I was referring to Devil Survivor with the best balanced remark, not Raidou 2 (which is completely my bad with the acronyms).

I agree with all of the problems you listed with. Definitely things I'd like to see improved upon, but I really like how Atlus is finally experimenting with their fusion system after nearly 20 years with no significant changes.

Devil Survivor has me addicted to creating the perfect demons. I must have spent at least five hours in that damn search function, hunting down the perfect demon fusing paths for maximum skill-age.

It had far and away the most enjoyable and meaningful fusion system. A full team is 8 demons + 4 humans (plus any backups), stats actually matter significantly so you have to give skill sets with them in mind, you can't give the same skill to more than one human so they all end up different, and they dumped the annoyingly overpowered kaja/kunda and insta-death skills. I spent more time fusing in a 30 hour game than I did in any of the Personas.

 

[Tamanon]

FYI, since today's Endurance Run has been so late, it's currently going live.:lol

http://www.justin.tv/giantbomb/old#mychat

 

[firex]

Brosuke is pretty useful in the last couple fights specifically because of Masukukaja and the fact that his max'd Social Link eliminates his weaknesses. He's not very great for the standard fights (I used Naoto more there) but he's awesome for the big boss confrontations. Especially with Yukiko in your party you can't really afford to have more than one person who has a weakness...so, Yosuke makes it in ahead of Kanji (who is truly useless once a smart player casts away Chie's feeble Bufu skills for Power Charge), Naoto (just plain worthless in boss fights), and Teddie (who either fills Yukiko's role or is a ice mage...and I don't need two Yukikos). Of your options here the only one I even really consider viable would be Teddie.

So no, far from it.

Sorry, Yosuke sucks and only losers, like Yosuke, use him. Because he's an annoying whiny loser and a huge dick, and that outweighs any kind of advantage (none because they can be given to the main character) that his stats/skills provide. He gets 2 useful skills, dekaja and masukukaja. Those don't make up for him being the most obnoxious character, and shittily average in every stat.

 

[hampig]

It might sound like choosing your inherited abilities would break the system, but that turned out to not be the case in either Raidou 2 or Devil Survivor. Raidou 2's enemies have far more HP relative to the average attack than most SMT games, so you're actually expected to use the fusion improvements, while I think Devi Survivor actually ended up the best balanced game in the series for a whole bunch of reasons.


Besides, it isn't like P3/P4's system prevented you from passing the best skills on to demons. It was only problematic when you're trying to pass many good skills at once, when they start displacing each other, and that isn't really necessary. Death magic + Boost is enough to one or two shot most random encounters in the game.

EDIT (Prices): Gamestop's Gamerdays sale had FES at $15, and FFT + Castlevania PSP at $10. The latter prices have gone back up, but FES looks like they still have it at the sale price. Can't order it online, though.

I was just at gamestop yesterday, FES was still 15.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I made my decision. I drove past a Gamestop on my way back to the office, so I stopped in and picked up Persona 4 for $30. Time to start an Endurance Run of my own. I'm hoping I'll stick with it and maybe finish it before the yearly rush of Fall games.

 

[ultron87]

Spoiler

Naoto's Shadow

was probably the easiest boss so far. Is the game just getting easier or am I just coming more prepared to boss fights?

I did really like the twist of

Spoiler

he being a she. It's refreshing that the extremely feminine looking guy in a JRPG actually turned out to be a girl for once.

 

[Tamanon]

Shadows tend to get easier over time, if only because you get more and more abilities and methods of minimizing/nullifying damage as you keep fusing. Although if you're not prepped, bosses will still crush you into the ground.

Just having more options to customize your MC means more ease at beating bosses.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

I watched most of them including the most recent. They are currently working their way through

Spoiler

Nanako's dungeon.

Playing Persona 4 is a definite possibility. Also, you're right, Persona 4's story isn't as compelling as the characters in it.

So long as you don't watch any more, you've still yet to see a few twists. Stop watching, and play it yourself now.

Spoiler

Naoto's Shadow

was probably the easiest boss so far. Is the game just getting easier or am I just coming more prepared to boss fights?

The game gets easier, as the difficulty of the bosses don't scale enough to match your stronger Persona. As you get access to more buffs and debuffs, the game gets easier. Even the last few bosses aren't all that difficult.

I think most people will agree that the first three or four bosses are the hardest in the game.

 

[Yaweee]

********* was probably the easiest boss so far. Is the game just getting easier or am I just coming more prepared to boss fights?

No, it really is getting easier. None of the bosses in the second half of the game require much more strategy than buff/debuff and defending at the right moments, whereas the first four major bosses were really well-designed fights. Regular enemies seem to deal less damage as a % of max HP, as well.

 

[Felix Lighter]

So long as you don't watch any more, you've still yet to see a few twists. Stop watching, and play it yourself now.

That's just not possible. Listening to the Endurance Run in the background while at work is just too important. Without it, I'm back to just Sports Radio and the NPR stream to get me through my week.

 

[Ourobolus]

Sorry, Yosuke sucks and only losers, like Yosuke, use him. Because he's an annoying whiny loser and a huge dick, and that outweighs any kind of advantage (none because they can be given to the main character) that his stats/skills provide. He gets 2 useful skills, dekaja and masukukaja. Those don't make up for him being the most obnoxious character, and shittily average in every stat.

You're right. I keep forgetting about that "personality" stat that affects each and every battle. Kanji's desire to knit must be the reason he lags so far behind Chie in the damage department.

 

[ultron87]

No, it really is getting easier. None of the bosses in the second half of the game require much more strategy than buff/debuff and defending at the right moments, whereas the first four major bosses were really well-designed fights. Regular enemies seem to deal less damage as a % of max HP, as well.

I dunno about your point on regular enemies. I feel like they've started hitting harder, and punish you more for not figuring out their weaknesses quickly and/or getting ambushed. At least the top (I guess bottom technically) few floors of the Secret Lab felt like. The one I can think of most readily are the things that cast God Hand, which pretty easily drops 2/3 of a character's health or more.

You're just less likely to get wiped in a single turn than you are in earlier dungeons because all your party members should really be able to withstand a mortal blow at that point (unless you're using Teddie I guess).

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Yosuke was definitely one of my least favourite characters in regards to personality (Naoto takes the bottom spot, simply because Naoto's role seems to be nothing more than sum up the current situation so that stupid players can understand what's going on), but I thought he was quite useful in battle. He does good Wind and physical damage, and Dekaja is an awesome ability during boss fights.


I used Yosuke, Yukiko, and Teddie as my main party.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Yosuke is like the Red Mage of the group; has a little this and that, but doesn't really excel. Yeah, he can do Garudyne + Boost + Amp, but Yukiko and Ted can do the same thing. Dekaja? Sarasvati has that, who's always been my main for 90% of the game. Masukukaja? Okay, but by the time you get it, you should have stuff with Masukunda which works fine, too. He only gets a medium heal, and his other stuff other characters get the same things. Jack of all trades, etc.

No, it really is getting easier. None of the bosses in the second half of the game require much more strategy than buff/debuff and defending at the right moments, whereas the first four major bosses were really well-designed fights. Regular enemies seem to deal less damage as a % of max HP, as well.

The first bosses are exactly like that, too.

 

[kylej]

Yosuke is the king.

 

[Yaweee]

The first bosses are exactly like that, too.

I wouldn't really say the 1st, 2nd, or 4th bosses are like that. Their reinforcements and multiple phases made the fights more interesting than the rest of the bosses. Yes, buffing and guarding are important, but they at least require some planning or decision making beyond that.

 

[Radmon_ROKZ]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but I've been thinking about picking up either Persona 3 FES or Persona 4. I'm leaning towards Persona 4 but is there some really awesome mechanic in P3 that was excluded/changed in P4? I'm pretty sure the stories in both games are equally good i.e better than anything this gen.

Get 4, the story in 3 could only be described as pathetic and any change to the mechanics is for the better.

 

[Red Scarlet]

I would. You defend (well, Chie does, you too if you don't have a Null Fire Persona; I didn't) before the big attack from the first while killing its support, can kill every part of the 2nd with one spell (magaru) and debuff it, and you can have Null Ice stuff before you get to the 3rd so he pretty much cannot kill you. Sounds like your complaint/lack of strategy about the later bosses.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Yosuke was definitely one of my least favourite characters in regards to personality (Naoto takes the bottom spot, simply because Naoto's role seems to be nothing more than sum up the current situation so that stupid players can understand what's going on), but I thought he was quite useful in battle. He does good Wind and physical damage, and Dekaja is an awesome ability during boss fights.


I used Yosuke, Yukiko, and Teddie as my main party.

My problem with Naoto is that, since she joined the party so late in the game, there's very little development when compared to the other characters.

Why use 2 healers? Yukiko does decent damage and Teddie has Matarukaja but Chie does more damage in one turn than they can and they both have weaknesses.

 

[firex]

Yosuke is the king.

of sucking? No doubt!
I hate his personality for 75% of the game (he turns into a whiny douchebag as soon as Kanji shows up) and I literally had no use for him after getting Teddie or Kanji in the party. Plus his social link makes him a one-dimensional character, and that dimension is nothing but loser.

 

[Error]

I don't mind Yosuke, he is like Junpei to me.

The cast of P4 is pretty solid, there isn't a character I hate there.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I'm having trouble getting the persona I want during shuffle time. I can follow the card but I don't know when I'm supposed to hit the button. I thought it was when it was straight ahead but I think I'm missing something.

 

[Tamanon]

I'm having trouble getting the persona I want during shuffle time. I can follow the card but I don't know when I'm supposed to hit the button. I thought it was when it was straight ahead but I think I'm missing something.

Whenever you hit X, the next card to be in the middle of the screen will be the one you get. So hit X a tiny bit before the persona you want is there.

 

[Felix Lighter]

Whenever you hit X, the next card to be in the middle of the screen will be the one you get. So hit X a tiny bit before the persona you want is there.

Ok I'll give that a try. I hope it's not the input lag on my tv or my slow reflexes. It would be a game breaker if I can't reliably get persona cards.

Edit: Thanks man, that was my problem.

Ugh. I still suck at it. It's getting frustrating. I can keep track of the card but I just can't get a sense of when to hit X. I wish there was a way to practice.

 

[ultron87]

The only Shuffle Time I can't do reliably is the slot machine style one. I'm just terrible at it.

50 hours now. Starting November.

Spoiler

That cultural festival was pretty entertaining. And I'm guessing the mentions of Nanako on the news mean that bad shit is going to go down soon. She's already heartbreaking enough, damnit!

 

[Tamanon]

The only Shuffle Time I can't do reliably is the slot machine style one. I'm just terrible at it.

50 hours now. Starting November.

Spoiler

That cultural festival was pretty entertaining. And I'm guessing the mentions of Nanako on the news mean that bad shit is going to go down soon. She's already heartbreaking enough, damnit!

Nah, everything is going to be just happy fun time. No fears!

And yeah, I've clocked over 200 hours on P4 over several playthroughs and still haven't ever gotten a persona card from a slot machine shuffle time. It's awful.

 

[Dave1988]

Nah, everything is going to be just happy fun time. No fears!

And yeah, I've clocked over 200 hours on P4 over several playthroughs and still haven't ever gotten a persona card from a slot machine shuffle time. It's awful.

I managed to ONCE get a persona off of the slot machine shuffle time. I always go "FFFFFFFFFFFFF-" whenever I see that slot machine shuffle.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Nah, everything is going to be just happy fun time. No fears!

And yeah, I've clocked over 200 hours on P4 over several playthroughs and still haven't ever gotten a persona card from a slot machine shuffle time. It's awful.

It's not that hard actually, a bit weird at first but once you memorize the order of cards for each slot it's cake.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I put my television into game mode and the problem is solved. I didn't think I'd have to worry about input lag for a JRPG. Oh well everything's good now. I haven't missed a card.

Oh and I just defeated

Spoiler

Yukiko's Shadow.

I've played the hell out of this game the last 2 days. Knowing exactly what I was in store for made it ridiculously easy though. I don't think I remember the other battles as well so they should challenge me somewhat.

 

[Curufinwe]

I managed to ONCE get a persona off of the slot machine shuffle time. I always go "FFFFFFFFFFFFF-" whenever I see that slot machine shuffle.

I don't think I every got a Persona from the slot machine.

 

[Red Scarlet]

It wasn't as reliable for me to win as the others, but I was able to get Personas from the slot about half the time or so. But I played the game a little more than average.

 

[Zanmato]

Are there any persona that are about as broken as Yoshitsune?

 

[Red Scarlet]

He's pretty much the "win button".

 

[I'm an expert]

I feel weird for never having a 'win' persona. I beat the game at level 77ish so I never got to make the real high end stuff. Even my super Alice and Trumpeter didn't get used at the end since I had my MC main healing. I guess a second playthrough is where these super personae would show off their true power.

 

[Tamanon]

I still cound Black Frost as the first "win" persona!

Followed by Tam Lin.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Weird that the best attack in the game is light damage.

 

[ultron87]

So I got Rise up to max s-link a few days ago. What does the ability she gets for that actually do? It says it tells you one of the enemies weaknesses, but I've yet to notice that occuring. Though she does say some on audio as the battle starts, usually about something being immune to something. Is that all that the ability does?

I guess that makes sense, because immediately knowing a weakness on an enemy would make dungeon crawling way easier and far less dangerous.

 

[Tamanon]

Sometimes when you analyze an enemy she'll actually say a weakness even if you haven't found it yet. You'll just have to stop immediately blocking her out of your hearing like most people do after two dungeons.:lol

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Sometimes when you analyze an enemy she'll actually say a weakness even if you haven't found it yet. You'll just have to stop immediately blocking her out of your hearing like most people do after two dungeons.:lol

Really? I thought it was when she tells you the weakness of a random enemy as you enter battle(you are never told which enemy it is).

"The enemy is weak to fire! That's HOT!":lol

 

[SleazyC]

So it took me much longer than I expected but I finally finished Persona 4. Took me about 95 hours and I got all S-links maxed except one (damn Hiero).

Spoiler

I felt that the ending of the game was a bit underwhelming compared to Persona 3's. Although I felt it had a much more melancholic ending, Persona 3's ending had more impact than the ending of 4.

Comparing P3 to P4 I think I enjoyed P3 more, the Tower felt much more dynamic to me and it really drove me to want to climb to the top to see just what was going to happen. Storyline just felt much more compelling alongside it than the murder mystery + dungeons you go through in P4.

Still mulling over whether I want to go through a new game+.

 

[Tamanon]

I think the impact of P3 versus P4 will change depending on which characters you feel more affinity towards. Especially since P4's ending really hit home the team aspect and the S Link aspect, IMO.

Spoiler

when the party members stepped in front of Eyes to Yomi each time....so awesome

 

[Error]

WIN BUTTON