What could they have done more with for Yusuke?
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Persona Community Thread |OT9| SPOILER TAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Dantis
- Start date
What could they have done more with for Yusuke?
Zippedpinhead
Member
Final decision spoilers:
So I found out that my brother (who has been asking me to finish this game since May and beat it twice) always
So he never got the gold trophy. Well, I did and berated him for it.
I mean how does someone do that?
So I found out that my brother (who has been asking me to finish this game since May and beat it twice) always
agreed to Igor's terms
So he never got the gold trophy. Well, I did and berated him for it.
I mean how does someone do that?
You would think that on a second playthrough you would make different choices
Just involve him more in the plot I guess. I think it would have been neat if he was a part of the lategame planning or if he went out and did more recon. I'm definitely not buying that thought-terminating "lol Yusuke basically disappeared" garbage, but it would have been great if he had just a bit more prominence.
Also fwiw, Makoto isn't anywhere near my fav or anything. I just put her up there because she's a really competent character, lol.
zerokoolpsx
Member
Play P4G.
Because the story could easily be so much better with some small changes/additions.
I loved Yusuke and it was really weird how he didn't seem to do much besides sometimes joining in on Joker and Ryuji's perv adventures. I think they should have tried to give everyone an actual role/task as part of the team; maybe he could have made maps instead of finding them...? Obviously he makes skill cards but I basically never used those beyond the time I had to for the Twins.
ASilentProtagonist
Member
Never said I wanted it. I don't want it, but considering their track record, It's coming. We'll get it whether we like it, or not.
Doing update releases to improve stuff has been Atlus's MO for awhile now. Nocturne Maniax and Persona 3 FES came out a year after their original releases
Plus, Persona 5 is kind of begging for an updated version, because it's a fantastic game with only a few flaws.
A Dead Diehard
Member
zerokoolpsx
Member
The ending was great, but bitter and sad due to it finally being over. I really bonded with the cast and their change. Truly memorable, hence bittersweet.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I just don't know if the changes some people are talking about are changes they'd actually make. (Late game spoilers)
Like Akechi's boss fight. Isn't that whole scene a favourite in Japan, at least according to some Famitsu poll? I've seen a lot of complaints about it on Gaf and other sites, but if it's loved in Japan, would they change it?
I feel pretty confident in saying they won't change scenes like this. They've never done so before, as far as I know. Any new story stuff would probably be expansions akin to what Persona 3 FES and Persona 4 Golden did.
Like i say in the previous post im 100% sure P5 Crimson or whatever is gonna happen , but story changes or additions that small can be added as DLC or such ... but is Atlus so is not gonna happen , my problem is some people (not here) wanted that now ... like if is even necesary now ... the game is fantastic as it is , i literally wait a couple of yrs more for that and prefer Atlus wasted their time in more worthy / begging for a remake games like
3
TBH most of the people i see wanted to "change" the game end up being in "i want to date Goro (or Yusuke)" or "i want to change Goro confidant / story" so i can hang out with him since April 24/7 ....
Only here i see reasons plot / gameplay wise why p5 will need a re-release , rest of the people is just asking for fanservice shit for the sake of fanservice (like give Shiho a confidant or finally romance Sae).
They don't need to go that far. I don't expect nor really want them to significantly alter story scenes, but even that scene you mentioned, as badly executed as it was, would be slightly improved if they made some tweaks to
Akechi's
he already hangs out at Leblanc from time to time, so why not give him some more substantial dialogue that gives you more insight to his struggle? Some extra scenes where he briefly talks about his troubled past. I don't really know why the writers felt his backstory needed to be a secret. As long as you don't reveal (last palace spoilers)
his father's identity
then there's really no good reason to not explore that side of his character earlier on instead of dumping it all flavorlessly at the very end of his arc. If they fleshed him out before his face-heel turn then that pill would be easier to swallow, even if it doesn't completely erase all the issues with his last scene.
Okumura
(and Haru)
it's the catalyst to the PT's downfall
Sae's
"True Justice"
The biggest changes I'd make are regarding gameplay flow and balance. Just make the pacing quicker in general and make players feel like they have more agency. Spread out stat checks a little better, specially in regards to
Iwai and Haru
Im actually curious about the Aeon canon by Atlus chick of P5 ... and how hard Atlus is gonna feed us with her.
Is funny i like Beneath the mask that much i never notice that in the game until someone point it out , and now bothers me...
Other music change i will add is left out Tokyo Emergency out of the daily themes ... and used just for the PT meetings... i remember hearing it when "nothing" is happening and it feels so out of place.
This isn't even remotely true, especially if we look at how past Atlus games have been updated for new versions. : \
The twins need a mother
I feel that the game was released just recently but that's probably mainly because I'm in Europe. As such that they haven't had that much time for big changes like P3 -> P3P.
P4 -> P4G: That did have a lot of fan service added.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind fan service, I just don't expect much. I hope I am very wrong. I would for instance love a female MC in P5 and think the story would allow it too.
Nocturne to Nocturne Maniax was a huge update, as was Persona 3 to FES. Both of those were a year roughly after their original releases, and consisted of far more than just fanservice.
I think FES style additions are what I'd expect from a new version of Persona 5.
My only problem with that is i dont see
the police beating the hell out of a lady
Besides could be interesting if all the changes are made , like date the dudes now , or see
Kamoshida
I have no experience with Nocturne but if they turn out great updates so quickly that would be really nice.
They could change that a bit to make
her character less beaten up
A Dead Diehard
Member
You're right.
Even if
this conspiracy has targeted two women for assassination (or close)
edit: snrk! How about for the FeMC,
she just goes to the interrogation room in Inaba instead?
The problem is with the society we live RN , put Joker problems and the way the game treat the dude into a female MC will bring unnecesary bad publicity or too much SJW / Feminist undertones to the game ... i can totally see it (specially here in the west). For example the number of articles point out how the game treat Ann right or wrong...
At the same time when i see artwork like this i totally wanted it , i want a Akira... i mean Akane Kurusu (??) .... despite i know Atlus literally got to remade the game for animated cutscenes , new routes , etc etc.
At the same time when i see artwork like this i totally wanted it , i want a Akira... i mean Akane Kurusu (??) .... despite i know Atlus literally got to remade the game for animated cutscenes , new routes , etc etc.
You're making it sound like social justice isn't already one of the game's major themes.
I absolutely have no problem with turning P5 into a feminist power fantasy. It fits with the game's themes, so why not? But please don't give us a mere genderswap of Akira for the main character and be a little more creative.
Somehow that sounds problematic in my head or the fear Atlus dont do it right for some reason.
P5 remakes aside , im all aboard with a Female MC for Persona 6 , specially with the change of direction in the series (Hashino left) is a perfect moment to happen , but i dont keep my hopes up.
You know, Yukiko is better than I previously gave her credit for. She's actually pretty fun and can stand on her own despite making a weak first impression. Her laughing fits feel a little forced, but that's more the voice actress' fault than her's. We cool, Yukiko. Also, Chie's new voice is pretty good once you get over the initial strangeness. It fits her character better.
So far Golden's additions have been great. The new scenes are fun, the QOL improvements are incredibly welcome, the Jester SLink is a great addition, and even the much maligned Aeon SLink is not bad at all (that said, the character herself is the type of tsundere I don't much care for, the whole Ihateyouyoustupidjerk and poem gimmicks are kinda cringy). Definitive version hands down.
So far Golden's additions have been great. The new scenes are fun, the QOL improvements are incredibly welcome, the Jester SLink is a great addition, and even the much maligned Aeon SLink is not bad at all (that said, the character herself is the type of tsundere I don't much care for, the whole Ihateyouyoustupidjerk and poem gimmicks are kinda cringy). Definitive version hands down.
Funyarinpa
Member
I personally think that the game shouldn't tone down anything for the hypothetical female MC. Hell, I'd welcome a beat-up FeMC- the prologue is already intense narratively, and any "problematic" (because it's bullshit to me that people would object to the MC being beaten just because of her gender) elements would amplify that.
That said, the argument that the game would have too feminist undertones (and that that's somehow detracting from the main theme of the game) is weak. P5, despite its inconsistent treatment of Ann, has a LOT of feminist undertones.
(Spoilers up to and including Palace 6- haven't played further)
Makoto and Haru's Palaces are majorly about dangers and problems women face. Makoto's arc (AND confidant) reflects the crisis of schoolgirl prostitution, and Haru's deadline is literally "being sold off"- forced marriage. That inevitably ties the game to feminist undertones.
Sae's characterization also relies on a feminist issue- she mentions, especially to Makoto, that the reason she's so hardworking and determined is because it's very difficult for a woman to rise in the ranks of a prosecutor. That's also part of the reason why she pushes Makoto so hard to study and get into a good college. Sae's determination to overcome the gender barrier in her job is also (e: a significant part of) the reason she sees the courthouse as such a competitive place that her cognition distorts it to a casino.
Do I even need to elaborate on Ann's arc (in the first Palace)?
Sae's characterization also relies on a feminist issue- she mentions, especially to Makoto, that the reason she's so hardworking and determined is because it's very difficult for a woman to rise in the ranks of a prosecutor. That's also part of the reason why she pushes Makoto so hard to study and get into a good college. Sae's determination to overcome the gender barrier in her job is also (e: a significant part of) the reason she sees the courthouse as such a competitive place that her cognition distorts it to a casino.
Do I even need to elaborate on Ann's arc (in the first Palace)?
I do admit that other changes might be needed to make the FeMC route more believable- I'm mainly thinking along the lines of (very early game spoilers)
how a female person probably wouldn't have the "Delinquent with a criminal record" stigma that Akira suffers from. Some other form of slander might be needed (maybe some false rumors that she seduced a teacher or something?) to compensate for that. But that's no argument that a FeMC is implausible at all.
Overcoming gender/racial barriers would actually be a really appropriate focus for a game with P5's main themes, though I don't know how they could emphasize the latter in an expansion, maybe except
detailing how Ann was ostracized because of her race and integrating that into the plotline somehow.
Edit: My doubts about whether Atlus (especially under Hashino) would be (would've been) able to accomplish any progress in this area are a separate thing. I'd be hopeful for P6, but all I know about Wada is that he directed the spinoffs and I think I heard DAN has a really stereotypical gay character, so I'm not very hopeful in that area.
Edit 2: Nevermind see below.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Good thing that he didn't work on DAN then. He directed the Arena games.
Unless of course there's a different Wada that works at Atlus?
Unless of course there's a different Wada that works at Atlus?
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Yeah, you're probably right. Off the top of my head though, I don't know how they'd address certain scenes by adding more stuff a la FES and Golden. Not to mention that one of the last things P5 needs is more text, at least in my opinion.
Some interesting ideas here, but I want to raise some counter-points.
In regards to the first character you talk about,
I thought they did a decent enough job of talking about Akechi's backstory before his big boss fight. Before he ever joins the team you know he was abandoned by his father, his mother died, he bounced around foster homes, and then finally became known as the detective he is now. The only real new information you get during his boss fight is who his father is and how many people he's killed by that point. If anything, I'd appreciate his role in Yaldabaoth's game being even a tiny bit more apparent, though I haven't got to that part in my NG+ playthrough so maybe it's better than I remember.
I think part of his role in the story is how suddenly he comes out of nowhere to be the Thieves' top target. He didn't come to the forefront organically, he was basically forced onto the Thieves by the SIU director and Shido. I think a nice compromise would be adding more Haru scenes during the summer, so players get introduced to her sooner, and get some hints about her dad too. I think how little Haru there is was intentional though, as the game seems to set her up as the "mysterious girl" (in comparison to Ann's "pretty girl" and Makoto's "smart girl" roles. The game seems to refer to her as mysterious every chance it gets until she gets integrated into the group.
In regards to your other point, some OST changes would be very welcome. Especially some late game sequences.
You can say all what you want of DAN story , i know the Dancer Teacher was a tasteless joke and his role in the game seems to be basically the "haha he is hitting to Dojima , but both are dudes how awkward and hilarious at the same time" kind of humor.
But despite that the game had a more "coherent" plot (i mean they are dancing for battles and even with that they make it work somehow) and better characterization of the Investigation Team than both Arena games ...
So with Wada or the dude who direct the DAN game , to me P6 dont sound that bad , is gonna be a little low compared to Hashino work but i dont see a complete trainwreck coming either.
But despite that the game had a more "coherent" plot (i mean they are dancing for battles and even with that they make it work somehow) and better characterization of the Investigation Team than both Arena games ...
So with Wada or the dude who direct the DAN game , to me P6 dont sound that bad , is gonna be a little low compared to Hashino work but i dont see a complete trainwreck coming either.
Star Orpheus
Member
With how weird Sae's social link is I wouldn't be surprised if they redid it or gave her a second one
Oh man what if they made HER Aeon? Heh.
during the time she's on your side.
Oh man what if they made HER Aeon? Heh.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Wait, what's wrong with Sae's confidant? I liked how that one worked.
Stuff on the disc suggests it was suppose to be a standard confident, with romance options and everthying.
People want that
romance
But tbh i like her confidant , was diferent and worked pretty well with the game plot.
Im more pissed her goodbye gift is the only one dont give any bonus for the new game plus tho.
Star Orpheus
Member
Automatic links have always been kind of meh to me plus it weirdly skipping from 6 to 10 makes me think they were rushed or something changed about it.
A Dead Diehard
Member
If anything, they should make
a real link. It'd make that connection way more legitimate imo.
Justice
The problem with Sae's confidant is that it
As for the Aeon arcana, I hereby stand my ground for Newspaper Club Girl.
weirdly jumps all the way to 10 and her ability is the vaguest thing ever with no clear pay off. I think they should've left her auto-link as is, but instead of hastily finishing it off by skipping a bunch of levels (something they've never done in any of the previous games, which leads me to believe she must've been rushed), her last few levels should be optional as a normal Confidant. And no, I don't want her to be romanceable, though that'd probably happen if they implemented my suggestion.
As for the Aeon arcana, I hereby stand my ground for Newspaper Club Girl.
As a serious answer, I think the most likely candidates would be Sae turning from Judgement to Aeon after the interrogation, or Akechi surviving and going from Justice to Aeon (and obtaining his ultimate Persona, Herlock Sholmes). Alternatively, Lavenza. But even assuming they give us extra months to work with the last 2 sound farfetched. I sincerely can't think of a good candidate on the base game...
Aeon Arcana
Lavenza with Joker during his prison time , so that means they had Dec 25 / 26 th to March to work with it
(The SL continues after Joker get free) plus helps a lot of with her screentime too
(The SL continues after Joker get free) plus helps a lot of with her screentime too
No enough time ?
Aigis Social Link starts in Dec 30th in P3 so January to
March
Cannon_Fodder
Member
The lack of romance is like the best part, haha. As far as the automatic social links and confidants go, I like Sae's the best. Seems like it fits the plot the best. I think making it even part standard would hurt it, but I can see why people disagree I guess.
I saw the skipping of levels as a way to show the progression of their relationship. Sae goes from kinda trusting Joker to trusting him so much she saves his life in a very tense situation (her job is at stake and people might die.) As for her ability, it's Joker's freedom. She's the reason he lives, without her he's dead. So I think it's a pretty good ability, and describing would be a bit too on the nose I think. I think there might be room to add more after Yaldabaoth's defeat (because Sae's arguably the most important character during that stretch) but at that point there'd be no gameplay purpose. It'd just lock max judgement Personas to a pointless section of gameplay. I think, anyway.
A Dead Diehard
Member
They mention it beforehand, but it's so briefly and not at all elaborated/expanded that it feels kinda meaningless. Like, my main beef with
Akechi isn't that we don't get an explanation as to why he is like that, it's that we're not given any compelling reasons to care. The game tells you he went through hardships, but it never does the legwork to convey such hardships in a way that makes you empathise with his struggle. It's not told to you, the player, organically, through memorable scenes and characterization. It's kinda like writing a story in broad strokes. "Joel lost his daughter, Joel became jaded, he met Ellie, they go through some shit together and Joel forms a bond with Ellie" is a decent enough summary of a relationship between two characters, but without being told the specifics you kinda find yourself not caring too much. That's how I felt about Akechi's tragic backstory. It's there, summarized but not explored.
As for
Okumura
Haru
Sure, that works, but
considering it wasn't her but the group that pulled the whole thing off, it feels kinda anti-climatic for her "ability" to be just that. I'd accept some creative liberties to make her confidant available during the palace 7 stretch. Make it a requirement to beat Shido first if you must. At that point there'd be like 3 levels left to go anyway, so just 3 free days needed. I dunno, it's still a good confidant and Sae is one the strongest characters in the game, but something about its end felt abrupt. I guess it was a compromise for gameplay reasons, and tbh I'm kinda nitpicking anyway haha.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
To your first point, I can see what you're saying.
I think a lot of P5's emotional backstory is handled really poorly though, to the point that I think Akechi is solidly mid-tier. (I know it's a high point for some, but the way they relate Futaba's backstory in her palace stretches my disbelief so much I think I strained something.) I kinda like how inorganic Akechi's backstory is, because it feels like that hurt kid who's going around not-so-subtly looking for someone to help him out, only the player isn't given the option to follow up on all of these not-so-subtle cues because Akechi is a detective and you're a thief. I think in any other confidant, the other character mentioning their dead mom would trigger this music and they'd elaborate on it for a bit before saying something like, "thanks for hearing me out." For Akechi, the player response is closer to saying, "Them's the breaks, kid."
To your point about Sae,
sure the entire team pulled of the reversal on Akechi, but it all depended on Sae coming around and using her influence to be the deciding factor. The plan wouldn't have worked without Sae, and she was the only non-phantom thief involved. I think the problem with making her available during the cruise ship is that you wouldn't only have to work around her role in the story up until then, but also not take away from the significant role she plays from Yaldabaoth on. I suppose I'm not too bothered about the abrupt end because the scenes with Sae after the final boss are what really sold the character to me.
Speaking of that song and Akechi, they did use it in that scene.
It felt a little misplaced, wish they used a softer piano track instead.
Man, I can't really agree with your first point, I thought Futaba
was handled much better in all regards. She was probably the one character with a tragic past who felt fairly fleshed out. We hear a lot about her mother from Sojiro, we see her struggle both outside and inside the palace, the consequences it had on her and how she grows as a person because of all that. She grows gradually throughout the narrative and is probably the strongest example of character development in P5. The only thing that stretched my disbelief was how quickly she was able to forgive herself considering how hard it is to struggle with guilt like that in real life, but since she was pretty much inside her own conscious-subcounscious woobly wobbly thing speaking to herself and the whole story deals with magic redemption I was willing to accept a pulpier resolution to that problem.
Funyarinpa
Member
Incidentally I just realized I was literally born on the same date as Aigis. I love her, so holy shit
Happy birthday, Aigis <3
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Haha, fair enough! By and large, Futaba is the better character, but the parts of her story that bug me seem almost worse because of it.Speaking of that song and Akechi, they did use it in that scene.
It felt a little misplaced, wish they used a softer piano track instead.
Man, I can't really agree with your first point, I thought Futabawas handled much better in all regards. She was probably the one character with a tragic past who felt fairly fleshed out. We hear a lot about her mother from Sojiro, we see her struggle both outside and inside the palace, the consequences it had on her and how she grows as a person because of all that. She grows gradually throughout the narrative and is probably the strongest example of character development in P5. The only thing that stretched my disbelief was how quickly she was able to forgive herself considering how hard it is to struggle with guilt like that in real life, but since she was pretty much inside her own conscious-subcounscious woobly wobbly thing speaking to herself and the whole story deals with magic redemption I was willing to accept a pulpier resolution to that problem.
In my earlier comment, I was only referring to scenes inside her palace. A lot of what you described is good character development for Futaba, I'll admit that. The setup for her palace is great, like how hard the crew has to work to help her even though she asked for help. The idea behind her palace is great too, a tomb for someone who wants to die. But instead of just being about a messed up girl and her memories about her mother, the writers try to cram a silly amount of other story into that same palace. Maternal neurosis? Cognitive psience? Men in black suits who bully an orphan for no reason besides being assholes? The idea of Futaba's palace is great, which makes it such a shame that they just don't stop adding elements too it. That's the part that stretched my disbelief. Add to that some soap opera-style writing in the palace finale and I felt a lot of great ideas fell flat.
Linkstrikesback
Member
They don't really need an excuse anyway.
Cognitive forms of people get them around it easily. Any follow up game is likely going to be "AND THE COGNITIVE WORLD IS BACK FOR SOME REASON", potentially with it also being the TV world at the same time, somehow.
A Dead Diehard
Member
To split hairs,
the TV world never went away, it was just a surprise that the midnight channel was back.
(Sidenote: After Ultimax,
do you suppose the TV world goes back to looking like the paradise at the end of P4, or is it back to looking like a studio forever?
Linkstrikesback
Member
I suppose you're right there. I guess in a small retcon, the TV world could be spun as a type of cognitive world of Inaba, if that's the direction they want to go with either Q2 or a potential Arena Spin off. I didn't play enough of ultimax to get the story down, so I don't know how it ended. Might fix it one day.
I wonder which, if any, of the Persona 3 and 4 cast will be in Q2, and if it'll be set during the point in P5 where
Akechi is in the party ala setting it in P3 just before they lost a member
had to wipe everyones memories.
A Dead Diehard
Member
Yup.That's not even a retcon. That is what it is, basically.
Cognition is what this franchise runs on from SMT to Catherine