Phil Spencer: Xbox Game Pass has millions and millions of subscribers.

Jigsaah said:
Since when does "millions and millions" automatically equal 2 million?
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Would you rather it be 10million subs then? If so that would be even worse since its not even close to Sony in revenue.

I hope you guys know MS counts free trials and dead accounts.
 
Is there some magic method people are utilizing to perpetually get GP for a dollar every month? Why do people argue as if nobody is ever paying full price?
 
demigod said:
Can you share the numbers with us? Are you saying people don't cancel free trials or cheap subs once it expires?
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No, I don't work for MS, and don't have enough shares to be privy to that kind of information.

What I can tell you is that across subscription models (in other industries) , the number of people who cancel immediately after a trial is not very large in general. Usually the average trial sub ends up being a subscriber for at least 3-6 months - this is exactly why people offer trial subscriptions. Many people who get trial subs end up staying for years. You will always have attrition of course, but there is a reason that this is a standard model - and it isn't simply so a PR person can announce that they have a lot of subs.
 
DigitalScrap said:
No, I don't work for MS, and don't have enough shares to be privy to that kind of information.

What I can tell you is that across subscription models (in other industries) , the number of people who cancel immediately after a trial is not very large in general. Usually the average trial sub ends up being a subscriber for at least 3-6 months - this is exactly why people offer trial subscriptions. Many people who get trial subs end up staying for years. You will always have attrition of course, but there is a reason that this is a standard model - and it isn't simply so a PR person can announce that they have a lot of subs.
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This is true, but you should read the part that I quoted where he said people don't have the time to cancel subs which is false.
 
demigod said:
Yes dude, the Xbox's strongest market, that country. Are you implying that other countries have more gamepass subs? I bet you think other countries sells more games too than NA right?
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Never implied that once in my message, I just asked if we where counting one country only now. Why would I think that? did I write that? Of course NA is a massive market, it accounts for over 50% of everything. You never answered my previous questions.

- NPD actually has a break down of full paying and promo paying numbers? (I don't believe they even have a subscriber number we would have it if they did)
- NPD keeps track of when existing subscribers change from one payment amount to another?

Also are we talking about cuck Matt from reeee that used to post here with no 'actual' information just aluding and general guesses anyone could make? The information pasted online shouldn't be taken as truths, let alone that posted on forums. The official numbers we have from Microsoft is it's in the millions, from Sony their last number was at 700,000. Outside of that only Phil and Nadella know, anything else isn't facts or truths and we should stop debating them as such until I see some actual company numbers.

I believe once Microsoft hits a milestone, say 5million we'll get that number, maybe? Who knows. Just my shot in the dark guess. Even when they announce that we'll never get a sales breakdown of paying amounts.
 
Mattyp said:
Never implied that once in my message, I just asked if we where counting one country only now. Why would I think that? did I write that? Of course NA is a massive market, it accounts for over 50% of everything. You never answered my previous questions.

- NPD actually has a break down of full paying and promo paying numbers? (I don't believe they even have a subscriber number we would have it if they did)
- NPD keeps track of when existing subscribers change from one payment amount to another?

Also are we talking about cuck Matt from reeee that used to post here with no 'actual' information just aluding and general guesses anyone could make? The information pasted online shouldn't be taken as truths, let alone that posted on forums. The official numbers we have from Microsoft is it's in the millions, from Sony their last number was at 700,000. Outside of that only Phil and Nadella know, anything else isn't facts or truths and we should stop debating them as such until I see some actual company numbers.

I believe once Microsoft hits a milestone, say 5million we'll get that number, maybe? Who knows. Just my shot in the dark guess. Even when they announce that we'll never get a sales breakdown of paying amounts.
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And you don't even know who or which Mat, lol. Go ask him yourself.
 
demigod said:
Would you rather it be 10million subs then? If so that would be even worse since its not even close to Sony in revenue.

I hope you guys know MS counts free trials and dead accounts.
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I'd rather it be whatever the actual number is. I'm not making any assumptions here. There have been estimations that have put xbox at 9 million though I don't think anybody can confirm this and I honestly don't think it's that high. How do you know they count free trials (of which they don't actually offer last I checked) and dead accounts? Where are you getting this information from?
 
mejin said:
you are talking about this?

3474156-2628421411-hyDju.jpg
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actual question: Who ist stupid enough to pay for PSnow?
 
Jigsaah said:
I'd rather it be whatever the actual number is. I'm not making any assumptions here. There have been estimations that have put xbox at 9 million though I don't think anybody can confirm this and I honestly don't think it's that high. How do you know they count free trials (of which they don't actually offer last I checked) and dead accounts? Where are you getting this information from?
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Why you guys always be making shit up?

9to5toys.com

Jump into Xbox Game Pass w/ a 14-day FREE trial: access to over 100 games, 1-yr. $99, more

The gaming console market is a notoriously competitive field — and Microsoft is taking a different approach: if you can’t change the gear, then change the game. Microsoft launched Xbox Game Pass last summer and provided members with access to over 100 games. If you’ve not yet tried the service...
9to5toys.com 9to5toys.com
 
demigod said:
And you don't even know who or which Mat, lol. Go ask him yourself.
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I remember a Matt from Neogaf that used to report this kind of shit with a darkwing avatar but my memory might be going bad on me, but no I'm not up to date on shit talking analysts with no concrete information that is why I asked after all.

You made the claim, yet don't want to back it up and haven't come up with answer for my questions yet? For arguments sake I hope you haven't left highschool yet because you debate like someone who hasn't.
 
Mattyp said:
I remember a Matt from Neogaf that used to report this kind of shit with a darkwing avatar but my memory might be going bad on me, but no I'm not up to date on shit talking analysts with no concrete information that is why I asked after all.

You made the claim, yet don't want to back it up and haven't come up with answer for my questions yet? For arguments sake I hope you haven't left highschool yet because you debate like someone who hasn't.
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Nope, you made the claim that its outselling PSNow and you don't have the receipt. You want more info? Go tweet Mat and ask him yourself.
 
demigod said:
Why you guys always be making shit up?

9to5toys.com

Jump into Xbox Game Pass w/ a 14-day FREE trial: access to over 100 games, 1-yr. $99, more

The gaming console market is a notoriously competitive field — and Microsoft is taking a different approach: if you can’t change the gear, then change the game. Microsoft launched Xbox Game Pass last summer and provided members with access to over 100 games. If you’ve not yet tried the service...
9to5toys.com 9to5toys.com
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DId you really just bring up an article from 9 months ago? :messenger_neutral:

Ok I'm done now. It's not worth debating you as you are incredibly biased. I shoulda just ignored you when you said "millions and millions" meant 2million. That was my first clue, and I followed that rabbit down the hole.

My bad, carry on.

Edit:
Some actual math.

Sony subscriber count as of May 1, 2019.
According to Sony, subscriber count has grown nearly 40% on average each year, leading to a grand total of 700,000 users as of right now.
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700,000 / 90,000,000 = Roughly 0.0078 % of playstation owners use playstation now. 90 million consoles sold does not = 90 million unique owners. Some people own multiple consoles, own both PS4 and PS4 Pro, etc. So it's hard to calculate exactly which is why i say "roughly".

No bias, simple fact. It makes sense why. The pricing structure is terrible. They use the same approach they do with PS+ which is a huge mistake. People aren't paying 20 bucks a month and people don't wanna pay for a full year up front for the discount. Plus they barely advertise PS Now. All the pieces fit.
 
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Jigsaah said:
DId you really just bring up an article from 9 months ago? :messenger_neutral:

Ok I'm done now. It's not worth debating you as you are incredibly biased. I shoulda just ignored you when you said "millions and millions" meant 2million. That was my first clue, and I followed that rabbit down the hole.

My bad, carry on.
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You were wrong that they didn't offer free trials, which they did.
 
No. I will buy my games and not subscribe to them. And there's nothing you can do about it, Microsoft.


Throw in 6 months of Pornhub Premium and we may have a deal.
 
demigod said:
Nope, you made the claim that its outselling PSNow and you don't have the receipt. You want more info? Go tweet Mat and ask him yourself.
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I said "IF" I never said they WHERE go back and read the quote. IF 1/3 of their accounts are paying full price they would be making more than Sony. IF is not a definite by definition.

Please answer these following questions, because YOU did use these arguments as facts from a third party with no proof on the contrary.

- NPD actually has a break down of full paying and promo paying numbers? (I don't believe they even have a subscriber number we would have it if they did)
- NPD keeps track of when existing subscribers change from one payment amount to another?

"MS counts free trials and dead accounts." <- Where are you getting this information here you're reporting?

*edit accidentally hit post.
 
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Mattyp said:
I said "IF" I never said they WHERE go back and read the quote. IF 1/3 of their accounts are paying full price they would be making more than Sony. IF is not a definite by definition.

Please answer these following questions, because YOU did use these arguments as facts from a third party with no proof on the contrary.

- NPD actually has a break down of full paying and promo paying numbers? (I don't believe they even have a subscriber number we would have it if they did)
- NPD keeps track of when existing subscribers change from one payment amount to another?

"MS counts free trials and dead accounts." <- Where are you getting this information here you're reporting?

*edit accidentally hit post.
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How many times do i need to tell you, go ask Mat.

Can you prove that they don't count free trials and dead accounts?
 
demigod said:
Can you prove that they don't count free trials and dead accounts?
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No company in history has ever counted dead or expired trials as active paying subscription numbers in accounting.

We're done here, thanks for the laugh.
 
demigod said:
You were wrong that they didn't offer free trials, which they did.
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I was talking about presently...not back in the digital equivalent of the stone age. I know they offered it in the past....that's how I first signed up for it.
 
For these interested in Phil there is a live interview happening in one hour I guess.

 
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Mattyp said:
No company in history has ever counted dead or expired trials as active paying subscription numbers in accounting.

We're done here, thanks for the laugh.
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DigitalScrap said:
So is that how this works? You come up with unsubstantiated claims and everyone else has to prove the opposite?
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I was driving home looks like you guys insist that MS doesn't count free trials and dead accounts, hilarious. ALL companies use shady PR to their advantage. How many people played Sea of Thieves compared to how many bought it during launch month? Battleborn anyone? MS using MAU's across all their service and not just Xbox. Even Sony does it too with their PSN accounts.

Still think I'm wrong? Well lets see here. IF PSNow sub was 700k at $10, vs 9.5 MILLION gamepass subs (guess who made the thread? Jigsaah) and I'm being generous at $1.
Now how is it possible that 9.5 million subs lose to 700k in revenue? By adding free trials and dead accounts, duh.

Jigsaah said:
I was talking about presently...not back in the digital equivalent of the stone age. I know they offered it in the past....that's how I first signed up for it.
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Hilarious, pretended that there was no free subs and yet you signed up for it.
 
This really means nothing...….Millions and millions of subs...….So lets say it's 4 million subs, with the notion that Phil is not being flaky with his language...….We're talking: lots of free trials, $2 subs, $1 subs etc....where the majority of people would sub to gamepass at said prices...…..So millions of subs at $1, is not exactly flattering......Hey, for $1..... I'll purchase anything...…..I still wonder if people play the games though, yet, even if you don't play, you still don't think you're being robbed or losing out...…..

It's just like me, I pay for Amazon Prime, for 1-2 Day delivery and I have not really used the streaming service.....Yet, I do order a lot.....Though, there I months I don't order and I'm still subbed, I could careless tbh....I think I'd care even less at a $1 tbh....
 
transformer said:
Why not both? I view gamepass as a rental service and purchase games I wish to play over the long term. Best of both worlds.
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Well, for one, instead of fixing their piece of shit Store which replaced their previous piece of shit store (Game for Windows Live), they decide to just ignore it by releasing even more apps (which by the way is broken as shit to replace their other piece of shit apps) to try and camouflage the fact that their shit is fucking broken. And this ignores the stupid as hell UWP shit they try to cram down everyone's throat that made zero sense on day one, and is going to be a thorn in the side of Windows. Its very hard to take Microsoft seriously at all as it comes to gaming or consumer products, its not personal.

Nobody else is jumping up and down about their rental program - why would they?

For Microsoft to actually do something with Game Pass its going to take billions, and billions on top of that. Which is okay, but it really doesn't make sense to the people that already bought games from the Store and they can't even fix that shit.

Why not both?
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To answer your question, as it pertains to MS, why either way... they continue to fail on all fronts.
 
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I don't think people realize that this service needs to have a shit ton of subscribers to be worthwhile, like tens of millions. When Halo 6 comes out and people drop down $10 to play it instead of $60, Microsoft is hoping to make up that difference in cash lost per sale by having more units sold. Not to mention the cash they have to pay out to third party publishers to get their games on the service.

Its obvious they weren't making enough money so they had to give the service out for dirt cheap to try to increase subscribers in the long run.
 
urmie said:
Phil is live right now: https://www.giantbomb.com/chat/
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To be fair it is being interesting...

- He started saying Scarlett is called PS5 (he probably read forums)
- He says he can't say if they will be the most powerful console because they don't have PS5 devkits (why Sony? You didn't send them one lol you are partners now)
- He says raw power is pretty important for them and he still aim to be the strongest one... one of main focus is power
 
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If Xbox Game Pass truly has millions and millions of active current subscribers, Phil Spencer should say what the number is because if Sony can say 700,000 for PS Now, even a million would be better number wise but not money wise. Hell, I just got Game Pass Ultimate for what is basically $4 a month for the next 15 months. Spencer is just trying to make the service look better than what it actually is. Quality doesn't need massive $1 every other month sales because it would sell itself. Add in that Booty said they want a first party exclusive every three months and yeah, it's about quantity with Microsoft and Xbox. Spencer better hope that Halo/Gears/Forza never dies.
 
DanielsM said:
Well, for one, instead of fixing their piece of shit Store which replaced their previous piece of shit store (Game for Windows Live), they decide to just ignore it by releasing even more apps (which by the way is broken as shit to replace their other piece of shit apps) to try and camouflage the fact that their shit is fucking broken. And this ignores the stupid as hell UWP shit they try to cram down everyone's throat that made zero sense on day one, and is going to be a thorn in the side of Windows. Its very hard to take Microsoft seriously at all as it comes to gaming or consumer products, its not personal.

Nobody else is jumping up and down about their rental program - why would they?

For Microsoft to actually do something with Game Pass its going to take billions, and billions on top of that. Which is okay, but it really doesn't make sense to the people that already bought games from the Store and they can't even fix that shit.



To answer your question, as it pertains to MS, why either way... they continue to fail on all fronts.
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Okay. I guess you don't like it. Don't subscribe then. It's not for everybody. Millions of us do subscribe and this appears to be far from a fail, contrary to your opinion.
 
Night.Ninja said:
Why are some of you so invested in the numbers, genuine question? if phil came out and said we only have 10,000 subs then what?
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Then he'd be lying out of his teeth with this "millions and millions" comment now wouldn't he...…..

If someone says "I've had sex with lots and lots of women", 4 could be lots and lots to someone, some of these women may have even been street walkers.....You see how much the imagination can flip and gyrate if you don't just come out with it.....

Being vague only means there is some metric you want to hide, not quite proud of....Millions of subs @ $1 is not winning any "confidence in this service awards"....People will easily put these receipts together....
 
demigod said:
I was driving home looks like you guys insist that MS doesn't count free trials and dead accounts, hilarious. ALL companies use shady PR to their advantage. How many people played Sea of Thieves compared to how many bought it during launch month? Battleborn anyone? MS using MAU's across all their service and not just Xbox. Even Sony does it too with their PSN accounts.

Still think I'm wrong? Well lets see here. IF PSNow sub was 700k at $10, vs 9.5 MILLION gamepass subs (guess who made the thread? Jigsaah) and I'm being generous at $1.
Now how is it possible that 9.5 million subs lose to 700k in revenue? By adding free trials and dead accounts, duh.



Hilarious, pretended that there was no free subs and yet you signed up for it.
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Ok you're simply delusional. I get it. Duly noted.
 
thelastword said:
Being vague only means there is some metric you want to hide, not quite proud of....Millions of subs @ $1 is not winning any "confidence in this service awards"....People will easily put these receipts together....
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Being vague is what defines Spencer. He spread the FUD and hope people interpret in a positive view since...well, he is good guy phil. Ask him yes or no, and he'll answer maybe.
 
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Giving up ownership of a game to rent a license is exactly what companies would prefer. Then they can fuck you anyway they choose. I don't care about PS NOW or Gamespass bcs it ends the same way. That being the end of gaming as we know it now. We're just numbers in a MAU report and as long as we're driving engagement to services we matter. I'm a gamer and I don't care about corporate services. Especially when they're fucking with my hobby. Bcs make no mistake once they have the majority of players hooked into renting games vs buying them the can charge you whatever they want whenever they want and they most certainly will. Anyone that thinks these services are good for gaming are in my opinion fucking morons.
 
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