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[KePoW]

...

Then why the fuck do a Kickstarter? Isn't the purpose of the project to create something unrestricted by financial concerns?

Lol, I guess you don't realize that they will still sell the game to other people besides Kickstarter funders?

 

[Perkel]

Cool, good to hear that as expected this isn't indicative of final quality.

Welcome to GAF by the way lol

He was here already when PE kickstarter started.

 

[rope kid]

...

Then why the fuck do a Kickstarter? Isn't the purpose of the project to create something unrestricted by financial concerns?

The purpose of using Kickstarter is to create something that is not restricted by publisher financing. People still have to like the premise of the pitch to back it or it won't get made.

While I do think it would be neat to run a Kickstarter for "MY GAME MY WAY", where I tell you no details and people just have to fund it based on their love of art, that's not what Project Eternity is. It's also not accurate to say this is my dream game. Don't get me wrong -- I really loved working on the IE games and I've played and DMed a ton of campaigns in the Forgotten Realms -- but my dream games are things that would appeal to a much smaller audience than Project Eternity. Project Eternity was pitched as a game made in the spirit of the Infinity Engine games and that is still what we intend to do.

 

[Nirolak]

Edair is an ordinary guy, but Edair is not indicative of all characters. He isn't designed the way he is because I think "that's cool", but because it fits his character. He is an unassuming man who tries to keep a low profile. Other wilder/more exotic/unusual characters will be available (and you can make them on your own).

We started modeling Edair first in part because he is a very straightforward character. The problems we are trying to solve in modeling are not related to how cool the character can look, but to how we have to build and export characters in Maya, then into Unity. For such purposes, often the more straightforward characters are better because they're "neutral". Chain mail and leather not make you hop out of bed and scream OWOOOOOGA! but they're things we're pretty likely to have to create and they pose actual challenges for us when it comes to building and rendering it.

Someone compared the painted portrait of Sagani to the line art of Sagani. You can certainly compare them, but they're made for different purposes. Line art drawings like the ones Polina has done will probably never appear in the game. They're made as reference. Any coloring done after the fact is mostly just to give a sense of volume to the character and his/her gear. The painting of Sagani is a great portrait and we'd like all of our portraits to be that good and in a similar style -- but no one is going to build Sagani from the painting of her. She's in a cool pose with a determined expression, but you're mostly looking at her back and side.

I understand that people want to see more art, better art, and more unusual art. We will make it. It has always been our intention to do so, but a lot of the problems we're trying to solve right now are logistical, not quality-related, and while paintings like the one of Sagani or even the wallpaper of the whole party are exciting and beautiful, they don't necessarily help us build the game right now.

Thanks for all of your feedback.

I definitely get the idea of modeling artwork, but I think that - even though they're less posed - the new pictures might be a little too posed and thus sending the wrong message.

For example, if it was an uncolored/more simplistic version of something like this other piece she did:

I think it would have raised far less questions, since at that point it's incredibly clear that the purpose of the artwork is solely for being able to model it into the game.

Watermarking the images with something like "This artwork is used for modeling the character." instead of "This is Work in Progress, so, don't get all,... URRR!..." would probably help on the communication front as well, and produce a far more subdued reaction.

Also, thanks for coming and sharing information.

 

[Aquamarine]

Lol, I guess you don't realize that they will still sell the game to other people besides Kickstarter funders?

I don't think he realizes what the word "Kickstart" actually means. It's supposed to mean that funding PE means Obsidian WON'T HAVE TO approach the community for money again.

 

[Dennis]

Edair is an ordinary guy, but Edair is not indicative of all characters. He isn't designed the way he is because I think "that's cool", but because it fits his character. He is an unassuming man who tries to keep a low profile. Other wilder/more exotic/unusual characters will be available (and you can make them on your own).

We started modeling Edair first in part because he is a very straightforward character. The problems we are trying to solve in modeling are not related to how cool the character can look, but to how we have to build and export characters in Maya, then into Unity. For such purposes, often the more straightforward characters are better because they're "neutral". Chain mail and leather not make you hop out of bed and scream OWOOOOOGA! but they're things we're pretty likely to have to create and they pose actual challenges for us when it comes to building and rendering it.

Someone compared the painted portrait of Sagani to the line art of Sagani. You can certainly compare them, but they're made for different purposes. Line art drawings like the ones Polina has done will probably never appear in the game. They're made as reference. Any coloring done after the fact is mostly just to give a sense of volume to the character and his/her gear. The painting of Sagani is a great portrait and we'd like all of our portraits to be that good and in a similar style -- but no one is going to build Sagani from the painting of her. She's in a cool pose with a determined expression, but you're mostly looking at her back and side.

I understand that people want to see more art, better art, and more unusual art. We will make it. It has always been our intention to do so, but a lot of the problems we're trying to solve right now are logistical, not quality-related, and while paintings like the one of Sagani or even the wallpaper of the whole party are exciting and beautiful, they don't necessarily help us build the game right now.

Thanks for all of your feedback.

Thanks for providing some insight into how the sausages get made.

If you don't, how would anyone ever be able to receive honest feedback? The goal here should be to make something as good as possible, not to ignore any faults and just praise everything carte blanche.

Yup. Can't go wrong with honesty.

 

[zkylon]

He was here already when PE kickstarter started.

Well I'm welcoming him now

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Edair is an ordinary guy, but Edair is not indicative of all characters. He isn't designed the way he is because I think "that's cool", but because it fits his character. He is an unassuming man who tries to keep a low profile. Other wilder/more exotic/unusual characters will be available (and you can make them on your own).

We started modeling Edair first in part because he is a very straightforward character. The problems we are trying to solve in modeling are not related to how cool the character can look, but to how we have to build and export characters in Maya, then into Unity. For such purposes, often the more straightforward characters are better because they're "neutral". Chain mail and leather not make you hop out of bed and scream OWOOOOOGA! but they're things we're pretty likely to have to create and they pose actual challenges for us when it comes to building and rendering it.

Someone compared the painted portrait of Sagani to the line art of Sagani. You can certainly compare them, but they're made for different purposes. Line art drawings like the ones Polina has done will probably never appear in the game. They're made as reference. Any coloring done after the fact is mostly just to give a sense of volume to the character and his/her gear. The painting of Sagani is a great portrait and we'd like all of our portraits to be that good and in a similar style -- but no one is going to build Sagani from the painting of her. She's in a cool pose with a determined expression, but you're mostly looking at her back and side.

I understand that people want to see more art, better art, and more unusual art. We will make it. It has always been our intention to do so, but a lot of the problems we're trying to solve right now are logistical, not quality-related, and while paintings like the one of Sagani or even the wallpaper of the whole party are exciting and beautiful, they don't necessarily help us build the game right now.

Thanks for all of your feedback.

Thanks for the response. Glad you guys (or you at least) are making it over here to see the feedback, and not afraid that some of it is negative, at this point.

 

[Perkel]

The purpose of using Kickstarter is to create something that is not restricted by publisher financing. People still have to like the premise of the pitch to back it or it won't get made.

While I do think it would be neat to run a Kickstarter for "MY GAME MY WAY", where I tell you no details and people just have to fund it based on their love of art, that's not what Project Eternity is. It's also not accurate to say this is my dream game. Don't get me wrong -- I really loved working on the IE games and I've played and DMed a ton of campaigns in the Forgotten Realms -- but my dream games are things that would appeal to a much smaller audience than Project Eternity. Project Eternity was pitched as a game made in the spirit of the Infinity Engine games and that is still what we intend to do.

That should clarify a lot for people.

Btw Do you plan to keep doing video updates ? Not only this is interesting from game design aspect but also from community side keeping focus on PE. Ofc people don't want spoilers or ro much information but it is very fun to watch it.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Sawyer pretty much stated that a non-human main character or protagonist group wouldn't be done because it wouldn't sell.

Haha, wow. Wouldn't sell?

 

[Mister_Bubbles]

Edair is an ordinary guy, but Edair is not indicative of all characters. He isn't designed the way he is because I think "that's cool", but because it fits his character. He is an unassuming man who tries to keep a low profile. Other wilder/more exotic/unusual characters will be available (and you can make them on your own).

We started modeling Edair first in part because he is a very straightforward character. The problems we are trying to solve in modeling are not related to how cool the character can look, but to how we have to build and export characters in Maya, then into Unity. For such purposes, often the more straightforward characters are better because they're "neutral". Chain mail and leather not make you hop out of bed and scream OWOOOOOGA! but they're things we're pretty likely to have to create and they pose actual challenges for us when it comes to building and rendering it.

Someone compared the painted portrait of Sagani to the line art of Sagani. You can certainly compare them, but they're made for different purposes. Line art drawings like the ones Polina has done will probably never appear in the game. They're made as reference. Any coloring done after the fact is mostly just to give a sense of volume to the character and his/her gear. The painting of Sagani is a great portrait and we'd like all of our portraits to be that good and in a similar style -- but no one is going to build Sagani from the painting of her. She's in a cool pose with a determined expression, but you're mostly looking at her back and side.

I understand that people want to see more art, better art, and more unusual art. We will make it. It has always been our intention to do so, but a lot of the problems we're trying to solve right now are logistical, not quality-related, and while paintings like the one of Sagani or even the wallpaper of the whole party are exciting and beautiful, they don't necessarily help us build the game right now.

Thanks for all of your feedback.

Sounds pretty great to me. I think this kind of context is a pretty useful thing with these early stages. I can't speak for anyone else but I can imagine that the gaming public still aren't 'used' to having early-development art assets released in this kind of way - I feel that people generally are in the established mindset of expecting assets they see to be a) tied to a final release as part of marketing and therefore b) being shown purposefully by the developers as a demonstration of the positive aspects of the game.

Looking forward to some of the finished painterly art, I have to say.

 

[Perkel]

I don't think he realizes what the word "Kickstart" actually means. It's supposed to mean that funding PE means Obsidian WON'T HAVE TO approach the community for money again.

it's more like:

I have idea/project and i need money help me/us achieve that.

Ideally Obsidian after creating PE will swim in money and it will give them chance to be fully independent and by that funding their own games without publisher pitching.

In worst case game will bomb hard and they will again pitch project on kickstarter. With this i don't see why i shouldn't give them money again if game was good.

 

[Lancehead]

Haha, wow. Wouldn't sell?

The part you quoted doesn't even make sense. What is "non-human main character or protagonist group"?

 

[rope kid]

I definitely get the idea of modeling artwork, but I think that - even though they're less posed - the new pictures might be a little too posed and thus sending the wrong message.

I don't disagree. We've done more and less posed versions of the characters to explore different aspects of the characters and talk about animation on different characters/races.

 

[Perkel]

The part you quoted doesn't even make sense. What is "non-human main character or protagonist group"?

jellyfish for main character. You can only communicate with other people by ripples on your skin.

 

[Mister_Bubbles]

jellyfish for main character. You can only communicate with other people by ripples on your skin.

And a group of assorted marine creatures under the player's control acting as their interactive link to the game world. Glub glub.

 

[Lime]

The purpose of using Kickstarter is to create something that is not restricted by publisher financing. People still have to like the premise of the pitch to back it or it won't get made.

While I do think it would be neat to run a Kickstarter for "MY GAME MY WAY", where I tell you no details and people just have to fund it based on their love of art, that's not what Project Eternity is. It's also not accurate to say this is my dream game. Don't get me wrong -- I really loved working on the IE games and I've played and DMed a ton of campaigns in the Forgotten Realms -- but my dream games are things that would appeal to a much smaller audience than Project Eternity. Project Eternity was pitched as a game made in the spirit of the Infinity Engine games and that is still what we intend to do.

Thanks for the clarification. It's of course your prerogative to use Kickstarter the way you want to - i.e. with the intention to sustain your company by making a project you cannot pitch to contemporary industry publishers. I just had the notion that this project was your actual 'dream game' (well, maybe the company's)

Kickstarter started games still have to sell.

Lol, I guess you don't realize that they will still sell the game to other people besides Kickstarter funders?

I don't think he realizes what the word "Kickstart" actually means. It's supposed to mean that funding PE means Obsidian WON'T HAVE TO approach the community for money again.

Again, I have a different understanding of the Kickstarter phenomenon - a project is pitched and funded for the sake of the project itself, not as a mean to continue or sustain the company after the project is finished and delivered to the backers and eventual buyers. Anything extra made off the backed project is a bonus and hopefully able to sustain the company in its future endeavours, but it isn't the primary aspect of the Kickstarter.

I thought this was everybody's understanding of the Kickstarter phenomenon. I'm backing the project and the company in creating the product, not future endeavours nor (in my personal opinion) if the product is creatively harmed by financial considerations to "sell more".

 

[Perkel]

Thanks for the clarification. It's of course your prerogative to use Kickstarter the way you want to - i.e. with the intention to sustain your company by making a project you cannot pitch to contemporary industry publishers. I just had the notion that this project was your actual 'dream game' (well, maybe the company's)







Again, I have a different understanding of the Kickstarter phenomenon - a project is pitched and funded for the sake of the project itself, not as a mean to continue or sustain the company after the project is finished and delivered to the backers and eventual buyers. Anything extra made off the backed project is a bonus and hopefully able to sustain the company in its future endeavours, but it isn't the primary aspect of the Kickstarter.

I thought this was everybody's understanding of the Kickstarter phenomenon. I'm backing the project and the company in creating the product, not future endeavours nor (in my personal opinion) if the product is creatively harmed by financial considerations to "sell more".

Kickstarter is only thing which is in xxx kickstarter description. Mainly it is whole project but there are kickstarters like Star citizent when it's partial funding (kickstarter money and private investors). Making any assumption that is something different should be based on something.

 

[subversus]

Thanks for providing some insight into how the sausages get made.

now I want some sausages.

 

[HK-47]

PT wasn't fucking amazing because it had weird world but because MCA story. Sure world in that game is interesting like sensates but overall it's dialogs and story did wow factor rather than world itself.

.

The Planescape setting was a huge contributor to how good that story was. In fact it sets up many of its major themes.

 

[saxman717]

Edair is an ordinary guy, but Edair is not indicative of all characters. He isn't designed the way he is because I think "that's cool", but because it fits his character. He is an unassuming man who tries to keep a low profile. Other wilder/more exotic/unusual characters will be available (and you can make them on your own).

We started modeling Edair first in part because he is a very straightforward character. The problems we are trying to solve in modeling are not related to how cool the character can look, but to how we have to build and export characters in Maya, then into Unity. For such purposes, often the more straightforward characters are better because they're "neutral". Chain mail and leather not make you hop out of bed and scream OWOOOOOGA! but they're things we're pretty likely to have to create and they pose actual challenges for us when it comes to building and rendering it.

Someone compared the painted portrait of Sagani to the line art of Sagani. You can certainly compare them, but they're made for different purposes. Line art drawings like the ones Polina has done will probably never appear in the game. They're made as reference. Any coloring done after the fact is mostly just to give a sense of volume to the character and his/her gear. The painting of Sagani is a great portrait and we'd like all of our portraits to be that good and in a similar style -- but no one is going to build Sagani from the painting of her. She's in a cool pose with a determined expression, but you're mostly looking at her back and side.

I understand that people want to see more art, better art, and more unusual art. We will make it. It has always been our intention to do so, but a lot of the problems we're trying to solve right now are logistical, not quality-related, and while paintings like the one of Sagani or even the wallpaper of the whole party are exciting and beautiful, they don't necessarily help us build the game right now.

Thanks for all of your feedback.

Thanks for the direct response to our concerns ---- very reasonable approach and I appreciate your dealing with our b!tching ---- we really all just want this project and your company as a whole to succeed and flourish.
It's great to know that the ears of the devs are open to our feedback and concerns ---- looking forward to the future updates and will try not to get all URRRRR!!!! next time

 

[zkylon]

Thanks for the direct response to our concerns ---- very reasonable approach and I appreciate your dealing with our b!tching ---- we really all just want this project and your company as a whole to succeed and flourish.
It's great to know that the ears of the devs are open to our feedback and concerns ---- looking forward to the future updates and will try not to get all URRRRR!!!! next time

Maybe next time you should think a bit more about wishing that somebody loses their job over some picture you didn't like in the internets

 

[saxman717]

Maybe next time you should think a bit more about wishing that somebody loses their job over some picture you didn't like in the internets

You have a good point --- I was thinking about it a little offline while driving home and felt bad that I'd gone that far --- was unjustified and hasty. Will avoid that in the future.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Thanks for all of your feedback.

Man, the weirdest thing about this for me is that I was an SA member for years before I started posting on GAF, so your username/avatar gives me crazy flashbacks.

 

[duckroll]

The purpose of using Kickstarter is to create something that is not restricted by publisher financing. People still have to like the premise of the pitch to back it or it won't get made.

While I do think it would be neat to run a Kickstarter for "MY GAME MY WAY", where I tell you no details and people just have to fund it based on their love of art, that's not what Project Eternity is. It's also not accurate to say this is my dream game. Don't get me wrong -- I really loved working on the IE games and I've played and DMed a ton of campaigns in the Forgotten Realms -- but my dream games are things that would appeal to a much smaller audience than Project Eternity. Project Eternity was pitched as a game made in the spirit of the Infinity Engine games and that is still what we intend to do.

So you're saying that we're not getting a historical fiction RPG based on Rome anytime soon?

 

[Zeliard]

I read some SA post by rope kid in their Project Eternity thread where he listed some of the more unique settings he'd want to work with in an RPG. It was heartbreakingly interesting stuff - heartbreaking because that shit probably ain't ever happening.

 

[zkylon]

JES, if you want yours truly's savings to make whatever you want just ask. They might last you like a couple months, a bit more if you eat terribly (eating terribly us how I've saved that money in the first place).

You have a good point --- I was thinking about it a little offline while driving home and felt bad that I'd gone that far --- was unjustified and hasty. Will avoid that in the future.

Cool, good attitude.

 

[Zaptruder]

Edair is an ordinary guy, but Edair is not indicative of all characters. He isn't designed the way he is because I think "that's cool", but because it fits his character. He is an unassuming man who tries to keep a low profile. Other wilder/more exotic/unusual characters will be available (and you can make them on your own).

To be fair to GAF, there are many characters in the pantheon of fantasy fiction (from any media) that fit this description that nonetheless looks much better.


Personally, I think that leather doublet looks like the dumbest piece of fantasy gear I've ever seen.

But I hope it's starter gear and it looks that bad to motivate players getting him out of it ASAP. If that's not the intention there... well... I just hope there aren't as many missteps with the rest of the art direction in the game!

 

[rope kid]

That's certainly a fair criticism.

 

[Lancehead]

Interview with Sawyer at Iron Tower. It's a good one with questions on worldbuilding and system design: http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,3114.0.html

I'll quote a couple of interesting answers:

2. As a follow up question, when it comes to recognizable and familiar vs strange and bizarre, how far is too far? Do you find that the players in general are more comfortable with the familiar? How willing are they to take their time to figure out something truly different?

People in general are more comfortable with the familiar, but players vary a great deal. Some players react extremely negatively if any aspect of the setting or mechanics in the game is unusual or unorthodox. Some players are of the opinion that if something's been done before, they're not interested in seeing it done again. There are also single-issue gamers. I've seen gamers who aren't interested in an RPG unless there are dwarves in it and I've seen gamers who write off an RPG if there are firearms in it. Above all else, many RPG fans are passionate, so if you push their buttons, there's a good chance the response will be strong.

I also think that gamers often trip over the same logical and emotional hurdles that anyone does. If they've used something before and liked the experience, it can be hard for them to see the flaws in that experience. Similarly, if they don't like the ideas they formulate about how something is going to work, they can have difficulty revising their views even after it's been explained to work contrary to their assumptions.

9. Which speech/conversation skills and ability are planned or being discussed and why? Are there any spells that can grant you new dialogue-related abilities like PST's speak with the dead ability?

We haven't discussed conversation skills as much as reputation mechanics. To me, conversation is one of the primary means players have of defining the type of person they are playing in the world. Instead of a heavy emphasis on conversation skills, I would rather allow players to behave in a variety of ways and develop robust reputation systems to react to those choices throughout the game. I think it's more interesting to allow a person to select diplomatic responses and develop a reputation for being a diplomat than to level up a Diplomacy skill and pick the Diplomacy option when it's unlocked for you.

I think some of the best role-playing experiences come from expressing your character's personality in the way that you want and seeing how the world reacts to it. I believe that we can make a conversation system that allows people to do this with dialogues and characters in a natural way.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I really like his answer on speech skills.

 

[zkylon]

Interview with Sawyer at Iron Tower. It's a good one with questions on worldbuilding and system design: http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,3114.0.html

I'll quote a couple of interesting answers:

Wow, loved everything about that interview, specially the prospect of Bloodlines-like experience system (triggered by completing objectives, rather than doing random stuff). I love that, please do that

I was kinda debating myself on the whole separate skill points for combat and non-combat skills thing but I guess it makes sense, so I'm convinced, as long as you can't max out everything like in Skyrim or whatever...

 

[Lancehead]

I was kinda debating myself on the whole separate skill points for combat and non-combat skills thing but I guess it makes sense, so I'm convinced, as long as you can't max out everything like in Skyrim or whatever...

It makes sense also because it's a class-based levelling system (which I'm not particularly fond of). Because without separate skill point pools, a Fighter class character can gain levels and not have any fighting proficiency, which would be stupid.

Well, combat being a core aspect of the game means class-based system is a necessity, so it's all intertwined, really.

 

[zkylon]

It makes sense also because it's a class-based levelling system (which I'm not particularly fond of). Because without separate skill point pools, a Fighter class character can gain levels and not have any fighting proficiency, which would be stupid.

Well, combat being a core aspect of the game means class-based system is a necessity, so it's all intertwined, really.

Yeah, I was thinking just that, thinking about NWN2, classes are by definition combat oriented and it was kinda weird putting points into diplomacy and whatnot. I guess that's why I'm not such a big fan of class-based systems.

I'll take Fallout's character system any day

 

[Taruranto]

Concept art shown to the public is not some new and novel thing. The issue here is that the concept art in question is bad and very generic.

Indeed, and about that, i'm mad.

But in the end, it still Obsidian, not some small, unknown European Studio. They gave us Mask of the Betrayer and New Vegas, basically the best wrpg in the last few years, so of course some ugly art wouldn't make me stop having faith in them.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Thanks for the response. Glad you guys (or you at least) are making it over here to see the feedback, and not afraid that some of it is negative, at this point.

if the guy can weather the codex, he can go anywhere!

 

[Lancehead]

Yeah, I was thinking just that, thinking about NWN2, classes are by definition combat oriented and it was kinda weird putting points into diplomacy and whatnot. I guess that's why I'm not such a big fan of class-based systems.

I'll take Fallout's character system any day

That is probably the achilles' heel of party-based RPGs - combat as an essential is necessary. Technically you can design a party-based RPG where you can avoid combat completely, like Fallout, but how appealing would that be? It's one thing experimenting with lethal and non-lethal builds in Fallout, but who would want to build a party of six travelling the world employing utility skills?

 

[zkylon]

That is probably the achilles' heel of party-based RPGs - combat as an essential is necessary. Technically you can design a party-based RPG where you can avoid combat completely, like Fallout, but how appealing would that be? It's one thing experimenting with lethal and non-lethal builds in Fallout, but who would want to build a party of six travelling the world employing utility skills?

True, true.

I'm a Fallout fan first and foremost, I've enjoyed some of the IE games like Icewind Dale 2 and Planescape (haven't gotten around BG yet, and who has time these days...), but I'll try to stick Fallout's design into everything and anything lol...

 

[Sentenza]

That is probably the achilles' heel of party-based RPGs - combat as an essential is necessary.

I'm not sure I would count a minimal degree of mandatory combat as an Achille's heel. It's nice to have non-combat options, but a good combat system can be simply a ton of fun.

Also, class based progression in my opinion is the optimal choice for party based games.
It's very important that if you manage a bunch of different characters everyone on your party has a very distinctive specialization and set of abilities.
Is that possible even with a skill based system? On paper, sure; but in practical terms it's way more vulnerable to the "optimal build syndrome" which can quickly turn all (or most of) your characters in clones.

 

[Spectacular Dr Dawg]

The character art looks pretty bad but environment art looks good. It's good that people are criticizing the art while there's still time to change it.
I'd like to see Obsidian create an adventure game with art like this after Project Eternity is done.

 

[zkylon]

no thats gross

 

[Mister_Bubbles]

Oh hey, wonder what interesting new comments areOHGODJESUS

 

[Lancehead]

I'm not sure I would count a minimal degree of mandatory combat as an Achille's heel. It's nice to have non-combat options, but a good combat system can be simply a ton of fun.

Also, class based progression in my opinion is the optimal choice for party based games.
It's very important that if you manage a bunch of different characters everyone on your party has a very distinctive specialization and set of abilities.
Is that possible even with a skill based system? On paper, sure; but in practical terms it's way more vulnerable to the "optimal build syndrome" which can quickly turn all (or most of) your characters in clones.

Agree that class based progression is well-suited for party based games.

The character art looks pretty bad but environment art looks good. It's good that people are criticizing the art while there's still time to change it.
I'd like to see Obsidian create an adventure game with art like this after Project Eternity is done.
http://i.imgur.com/mCuql.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2x9xc.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Well, that should surely placate the complaints of generic and bland art style.

 

[GungHo]

I did a bit of recolouring on that barbarian concept:

With the coloring, it looks like something from Ralph Bakshi. Not intended as an insult... just observation.

The Planescape setting was a huge contributor to how good that story was. In fact it sets up many of its major themes.

And a lot of those themes saw light by way of Gerald Brom. His work was highly stylized and strong. Almost severe. He also did Dark Sun.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

That is probably the achilles' heel of party-based RPGs - combat as an essential is necessary. Technically you can design a party-based RPG where you can avoid combat completely, like Fallout, but how appealing would that be? It's one thing experimenting with lethal and non-lethal builds in Fallout, but who would want to build a party of six travelling the world employing utility skills?

Planescape: Torment would probably have been better without combat.

I'm half-serious.

 

[Purkake4]

Planescape: Torment would probably have been better without combat.

I'm half-serious.

It was almost all optional anyway.

 

[zkylon]

Planescape: Torment would probably have been better without combat.

I'm half-serious.

I just set combat difficulty to easy and enjoy the writing. Same with Arcanum.

Hope I don't have to on PE.

 

[Mystic Theurge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGv_-a8GBhY

 

[Lancehead]

Meet the Developers - Dimitri Berman

 

[Labadal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGv_-a8GBhY

I loved listening to this. Some people might disagree with Sawyer's views, but I think he's got the right ideas. I don't want to choose a class with a set of skills, and later in the game find out that I might get screwed. All classes and skills should be viable options, even if they aren't all equally balanced. In a lot of games, there are many skills that are not worth taking, so his idea of making all of them interesting for the player to pick is great in my opinion. I was playing Mask of the Betrayer, and the character I used was great in combat and still had lots of social skills. On the other hand, there were many skills that were not worth taking because there were no situations in the game that required them. In other words, they were a waste.

I'm ill, so I'll come back and see if this makes sense later.