Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
j0hnnix
Member
Shouta
Member
Nope, but looking at Displaylag, the sets they tested from Samsung all had low input lag. Dunno about the image quality though.
The Lamonster
Member
A little OT, but I'm in the market for a new component receiver, and have a couple questions about the setup.
Should I plug my consoles into the receiver and then have an HDMI out to the television? Or should it be the other way around? I'm asking if there's a difference in input lag.
Also 5.1 does travel over HDMI, right? I probably don't need to use any old optical cables with a new receiver, do I?
Should I plug my consoles into the receiver and then have an HDMI out to the television? Or should it be the other way around? I'm asking if there's a difference in input lag.
Also 5.1 does travel over HDMI, right? I probably don't need to use any old optical cables with a new receiver, do I?
You should plug your consoles into the receiver and have a HDMI cable to out to the television. No input lag is added, if the receiver is any good. 1ms at most.
5.1 (and everything else) does travel over HDMI, yes. No need for optical cables with a new receiver.
mitchman
Gold Member
The other Samsung 4k sets have an input lag of 50-60ms in game mode (or when using DVI PC name HDMI input). I'd be surprised if this one was any better. 50-60ms is good enough for me, though, I love my UE65F9005.
SmashN'Grab
Member
I'm looking at upgrading my tv (currently have a samsung 40" 686 series tv - which is an lcd panel from back in 2008/2009), as I've got an xbox one and, who knows, might end up with a ps4 in a few years.
I'm looking at the samsung 48" 6400 tv, which looks pretty cool and if I get it I can get a deal on the f551 soundbar which also sounds like it could be pretty sweet.
I have two main questions at this stage, though, and googling can't seem to asnwer them for me. I thought I'd try here in case anyone could help...
First, about HDMI ARC - could it work in such a way that I connect my 360, ps3 and xbox one to the HDMI ports 2,3 & 4 on the tv, then use HDMI port 1 (the ARC one) to send the sound down to the soundbar? The f551 only has one HDMI port and one optical port so I don't want to have to choose which 2 of the 3 consoles will get the non-shitty tv speaker sound.
Also, in the newer samsung tvs, can you adjust picture settings in game mode? On my current one you can't, and the picture settings on game mode are awful and ruin the look of the games.
I'm looking at the samsung 48" 6400 tv, which looks pretty cool and if I get it I can get a deal on the f551 soundbar which also sounds like it could be pretty sweet.
I have two main questions at this stage, though, and googling can't seem to asnwer them for me. I thought I'd try here in case anyone could help...
First, about HDMI ARC - could it work in such a way that I connect my 360, ps3 and xbox one to the HDMI ports 2,3 & 4 on the tv, then use HDMI port 1 (the ARC one) to send the sound down to the soundbar? The f551 only has one HDMI port and one optical port so I don't want to have to choose which 2 of the 3 consoles will get the non-shitty tv speaker sound.
Also, in the newer samsung tvs, can you adjust picture settings in game mode? On my current one you can't, and the picture settings on game mode are awful and ruin the look of the games.
Hopefully it's alright to ask in this thread. I'm looking to buy a new TV to use with my Wii U and PC. It's mainly for gaming, though I'll watch movies and series on it too.
I've narrowed it down to these two Sony models:
- Sony Bravia KDL-40W605B
- Sony Bravia KDL-42W653A
Does anyone own one of these and which is considered to be the better option? After reading through tons of reviews, it seems they are fairly equal.
However, W605B has ~29ms while W653A has ~14ms in input lag. Is this large enough difference to notice?
I've narrowed it down to these two Sony models:
- Sony Bravia KDL-40W605B
- Sony Bravia KDL-42W653A
Does anyone own one of these and which is considered to be the better option? After reading through tons of reviews, it seems they are fairly equal.
However, W605B has ~29ms while W653A has ~14ms in input lag. Is this large enough difference to notice?
drugstore_cowboy
Member
The Lamonster
Member
Why not go for the slightly superior Sony STR-DN840 instead? Seems ridiculously overpriced on Amazon.com though. I got mine last week from Amazon.de for ~220, so I'm sure you can find it even cheaper in the US. The DN840 seems to be very well regarded, considering the price, has an unusual amount of features (wifi, bluetooth ...) for a receiver in that price bracket and is allegedly great for gaming. I don't know about that specific Denon, but people were recommeding me the X1000 and the X2000. Went with the Sony instead because of the superior feature list.
Quick question, does anybody else have a KDL50W800B with a Xbox One attached? I can't get the TV to turn on with the console. I've tried TV options and toggling the settings on the console but neither worked. The TV now turns on with my PS4 which is cool but I really like walking into my living room and just saying "Xbox on" and having everything work. It worked flawlessly with my previous Samsung.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
The Xbox One uses an IR Blaster to send the on/off command to the TV. It has to be configured for the specific brand and model so it is using the proper remote codes. Did you go through the OneGuide/TV setup process again on your new TV and did the tests work?
The Lamonster
Member
Sorry, I actually linked the wrong model. I'm looking at the latest 2014 receivers (and can't find the DN840 in my price range anywhere here). I'm leaning toward the Sony STR-DH550 and the Denon AVR-S500BT.
Is there a good site out there to compare these two models? Or any general recommendations on Sony vs. Denon?
I went through the options on the TV set-up that give you the option of what the IR blaster does (send signals for on, off, or toggle). When I set it up for my Samsung I didnt have to mess with any settings, it just worked. I'll have to mess with it more when I get home. The thing I'm worried about is the Kinect facing away from the TV. I'm not sure if it's the remote being very sensitive or the TV but the remote need to be directly facing the TV for it to perform. If it's tilted away from the TV at all the signal isn't recognized.
is PR any good? Been sitting on my HTPC since last summer
AlanzTalon
Member
Plot is serviceable to get robots fighting monsters. For TV reference material it is Gorgeous.
Basically, this. Gorgeous Blu-ray to show off your TV.
I got the W800B about a month ago (50 inch) and it is amazing. Color production is really good and of course as many people have said in this thread, the input lag is incredibly low. I can tell easily from the Rock Band calibration.
The only downsides I've noticed are:
1) The TV takes an inordinate amount of time turning on. I don't know if this is because of all the app components and whatnot (basically like a computer booting up or something). The TV actually won't take commands form the remote for a good 5-10 seconds from a cold bootup.
2) The 3D is not as good as other 3D TVs I've used.
Don't have either of those TVs but yes, the difference between 29ms and 14ms is definitely noticeable. It looks like that W653 has the lowest of pretty much any TV, so I would definitely go with that.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Yeah, I played Pacific Rim (BR) on my 55" LG last weekend and it was gorgeous. One of he best Blu-rays to show off your new TV 
Make sure if your receiver does any up converting, that you turn it off. My Pioneer SC-75 receiver gave me a shitload of input lag until I did that. Also usually, when you turn this up converting off that means your receiver needs to pass the signal through using the same type of connection. This means for example if you have a Wii hooked up with component cables, you need to use your receiver's component output in order to get a picture since you are basically turning off all of the receiver's image processing in order to eliminate the input lag.
Also, you may want to take a look at the new HDMI 2.0 receivers that Onkyo and Pioneer are bringing out in the very near future, so that if you upgrade to 4K later on down the road you won't need to get another new receiver as well.
Bought a P50GT60 near the end of last year before they became too difficult to get hold of but I haven't used it too much yet. I ran slides on it for 7 days before I used it for anything else and used some calibration settings I found online and was very pleased with the picture quality
The first heavy use the TV got was around March when I started playing Dark Souls II. I started to notice a little IR from the HUD elements but the game has a handy auto-hide option and they went away fairly quickly. I stupidly fell asleep one evening though while the game was on the title screen for a couple of hours and now whenever a light colour is on the screen I can see the words "DARK SOULS II" right across the middle of my TV :/ Most people probably wouldn't even notice it but because I know it's there it's driving me nuts!
What can I do to help the situation? I've run the Disney pixel flipper for an hour or 2 about 3 times now but I can still see it. Am I best just leaving that on for an extended period and keeping my fingers crossed?
The first heavy use the TV got was around March when I started playing Dark Souls II. I started to notice a little IR from the HUD elements but the game has a handy auto-hide option and they went away fairly quickly. I stupidly fell asleep one evening though while the game was on the title screen for a couple of hours and now whenever a light colour is on the screen I can see the words "DARK SOULS II" right across the middle of my TV :/ Most people probably wouldn't even notice it but because I know it's there it's driving me nuts!
What can I do to help the situation? I've run the Disney pixel flipper for an hour or 2 about 3 times now but I can still see it. Am I best just leaving that on for an extended period and keeping my fingers crossed?
The Lamonster
Member
Thanks man, I actually went ahead and bought the Sony STR-DH550, because it has HDMI 2.0 inputs and LPCM codecs for Wii U 5.1. I'll make sure to disable up converting when I set it up. And someday I'll get a 4k TV...
edit: how can I tell if it does up converting? specs
ACH1LL3US
Member
Good day everyone,
I purchased the 65H8000 this past weekend mainly for games. I was worried about the input lag. I happen to also own the LEO BODNAR input lag tester. With the Firmware 1120 ( which is what the tv was at when I got it) the Game mode was getting 48ms, which is beyond the threshold that I can feel. I personally start to feel input lag with tv/monitors over 40ms. IN PC mode the tv was getting very eradic numbers, but they were from 48-68ms which is way too high for me.
So I had read reviews of the 55 inch version getting 35ms. I figured because this tv is the 65 inch larger version that is why the lag was higher. I updated the firmware last nite to 1130. Then retried with the Leo Bodnar device. Game mode was now getting 38 ms and this was with Smart LED on low, not bad!
Then I tried PC mode because you get 4:4:4 chroma and I prefer that for games. It is now getting 35.4ms!!!
So those thinking on getting the 55 because it has less lag, now you don't have to worry about getting the larger 65 as it has the same input lag numbers. Very happy with this!
Also, for reference I also have the Samsung 55F7100 that D-Nice ISF calibrated, this tv has 40MS of input lag in Game or PC mode. I would without a doubt say the H8000 is a much better panel then the F7100 in all respects. The H8000's must have a totally new panel, because even at 6 backlight, its way brighter then the F7100 at 6 backlight.
I also have the 55f7100 and the 65h8000 ISF calibrated by D-Nice, he did pc mode on both too, perfect 2.2 gamma, 6500k throughout the range, so great for gaming.
Really somthing special playing on a 65 curved tv with nextgen consoles with 35ms of input lag... A real treat and it has totally blown me away :0
Any questions please ask!
I purchased the 65H8000 this past weekend mainly for games. I was worried about the input lag. I happen to also own the LEO BODNAR input lag tester. With the Firmware 1120 ( which is what the tv was at when I got it) the Game mode was getting 48ms, which is beyond the threshold that I can feel. I personally start to feel input lag with tv/monitors over 40ms. IN PC mode the tv was getting very eradic numbers, but they were from 48-68ms which is way too high for me.
So I had read reviews of the 55 inch version getting 35ms. I figured because this tv is the 65 inch larger version that is why the lag was higher. I updated the firmware last nite to 1130. Then retried with the Leo Bodnar device. Game mode was now getting 38 ms and this was with Smart LED on low, not bad!
Then I tried PC mode because you get 4:4:4 chroma and I prefer that for games. It is now getting 35.4ms!!!
So those thinking on getting the 55 because it has less lag, now you don't have to worry about getting the larger 65 as it has the same input lag numbers. Very happy with this!
Also, for reference I also have the Samsung 55F7100 that D-Nice ISF calibrated, this tv has 40MS of input lag in Game or PC mode. I would without a doubt say the H8000 is a much better panel then the F7100 in all respects. The H8000's must have a totally new panel, because even at 6 backlight, its way brighter then the F7100 at 6 backlight.
I also have the 55f7100 and the 65h8000 ISF calibrated by D-Nice, he did pc mode on both too, perfect 2.2 gamma, 6500k throughout the range, so great for gaming.
Really somthing special playing on a 65 curved tv with nextgen consoles with 35ms of input lag... A real treat and it has totally blown me away :0
Any questions please ask!
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
So you abandoned your Pioneer Elite for a edge lite pseudo local dimming LCD?
ACH1LL3US
Member
Sadly yes
I gave it to D-Nice. For my setup 50 inch was too small Overall I prefer led for gaming, I at times leave it on etc bc I fall asleep playing at night heh.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
How's the curved screen for gaming?
Seems like it would be a nightmare than something that would actually improve the experience.
Seems like it would be a nightmare than something that would actually improve the experience.
Cnet reviewed the Sony 65X900B
http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-xbr-55x900b/
Calls it one of the best performing LCD sets theyve ever reviewed and even says the blacks sometimes rival and top the ZT60.
That last part is a little suspect, I wouldnt be surprised to hear that about the X950 though.
http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-xbr-55x900b/
Calls it one of the best performing LCD sets theyve ever reviewed and even says the blacks sometimes rival and top the ZT60.
That last part is a little suspect, I wouldnt be surprised to hear that about the X950 though.
Alcoholikaust
Member
I got the set last week when it was on sale at BB
Picture Quality rivals the next tier (the curved samsung series(?) and is amazing
features best 3D I have seen in any set so far-
-input lag is unnoticeable when using the dedicated game hdmi port (yes it has one)
battlefield 4, Ghosts and destiny ran with no noticeable lag on my PS4
TitanFall was also very smooth and Dead Rising 3 actually did not have crushed blacks like on my Sony
Gears 3 and Halo 3 multiplayer also ran without any noticeable lag on 360
no ghosting, bright brights deep lows and rich colors- highly reccomended.
there is also a plethora of picture settings. (down to the 10pt white scale!)
negetives: the apps built in to the set run like garbage! use Netflix/amazon prime on a game system and save yourself a headache. for whatever reason the tv wants to resize the image (only happens in the apps so odd).
the web browser is also pretty booty
Seems like the final W653 was taken, so W605 it is! Hopefully I will not be too bothered by it. Wish there was some easy way to compare different input lags ^^'
ACH1LL3US
Member
Nope, not a nightmare at all lol! What makes you think it would be a nightmare?
dolabla
Member
Good stuff. Thanks! Guess I'm gonna go with that set.
dolabla
Member
I don't know how I missed your post, but I did.
That is freakin awesome to hear. The negative doesn't bother much cause I probably won't even use the apps. I have a Roku player for that.
Also I wanted to ask, have you noticed any green lines with that set? I read a few older reviews and some people mentioned seeing green lines. I'm assuming if it's still there, it can be fixed through a firmware update.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Don't notice any geometric distortion from having the sides curved?
Surprised to hear you are enjoying a TV that has 1/3rd the max contrast as your Elite.
You play a lot in the day?
ACH1LL3US
Member
I dont notice any geometry distortions. I play with lights on so the darker black is not noticable in my scenario vs the pioneer. It also has 20ms less lag the pioneer , and that was with pioneer in game mode on or pc mode.
Overall the 15 inches more and playin with lights on def has a larger inpact then I thought it would.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Noticed something with my W905 and the Impulse setting, getting some pretty nasty flicker at 60hz but next to none at 50hz.
It's a dumb oversight when the TV accepts 60hz without issue. I understand 60 doesn't go into 100 but where does the problem lie? Is it an issue with the panel (I assumed it was the same one used in 60hz regions) or the Bravia engine/firmware?
It's a dumb oversight when the TV accepts 60hz without issue. I understand 60 doesn't go into 100 but where does the problem lie? Is it an issue with the panel (I assumed it was the same one used in 60hz regions) or the Bravia engine/firmware?
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Why did you change your username?
I think he must have gotten confused & changed his username instead of his avatar?
ACH1LL3US
Member
You can change your username on here?
Unknown Soldier
Member
You PM a mod to get your username changed. They frown upon frequent changes but the occasional or one-time change is usually not an issue.
There should be visible flicker at both 60hz and 50hz. It's blinking the backlight either 60 times a second or 50, in both cases it's little different from an old-school CRT refreshing at 60hz. The refresh rate of the panel is irrelevant here, which on a W905 it's actually a 240hz panel (or 200hz when running in Yurop mode).
UpperCaseN
Member
Thoughts on the LG 55LB6300? My Bestbuy 10% off coupon expires in a week, I went to the top of the 55" TV's on the display input lag database and this is the first one I found in my price range. I'm tempted to go buy it this afternoon, I'm only 40 min away from DE so I can take a trip and save on tax as well
Unknown Soldier
Member
Because of that crazy Fry's sale (65W850A @ $1499), I have been demoing one of these sets in my home. Yes, I currently have a Sony LED edge-lit LCD sitting on a coffee table in front of my VT60. This double-TV effect is jarringly realistic, like the double-frame effect you get when playing a 30fps console game on a fast-refresh TV like a plasma or...a Sony TV with Motionflow Impulse.
All the usual problems common with LED edge-lit LCDs are present in this set. Black screen uniformity would be great if it weren't for the narrow viewing angles on this S-PVA panel, which causes noticeable washout and brightening on the right and left edges. There is slight vignetting on the left and right edges, this is apparently characteristic on the 2013 Sony LCDs and present across the entire range which have TRILUMINOS due to the way the filter is applied to the panel. There is also a "shadow" in the center of the screen which is darker than the edges, so flashlighting is visible during on-angle viewing. There is also vertical banding during horizontal panning shots, especially on solid-color images like soccer fields. So, this set is basically displaying all the flaws of LED edge-lit LCD in terms of uniformity.
The colors on this set are quite good, even though it's not Sony's top-shelf panel as the W850A is the step-down model from the W900A in 2013. The TRILUMINOS filter seems to help a lot, keep in mind I'm comparing the colors on this set to the plasma display panel on my VT60 which supposedly displays 98% DCI color gamut and it compares pretty favorably. It seems a bit undersaturated compared to the VT60 but engaging Live Color switches the TV into the TRILUMINOS expanded gamut and it gets reasonably close to the VT60 without completely oversaturating and exaggerating everything in sight.
Black levels and contrast are of course no contest, the VT60 blows the W850A out of the water in black levels. The lower contrast ratio of the W850A makes general content look more flat than on the VT60, which means for movies at least the superior choice is the plasma. However for the general TV viewing and gaming, the flatter image actually makes things easier to see, this is dramatically evident in games where HUDs tended to be blindingly bright on the plasma compared to the LCD. I'm not sure how I feel about this, especially since the game UIs being blindingly bright also means the UIs just burn in that much faster.
Okay, I've gotten all the usual desultory image quality shit out of the way, now let's talk about gaming.
Motionflow Impulse is MINDBLOWING. Believe the hype, Impulse is for real. It creates true CRT-like motion resolution on an LCD. There is no sample-and-hold. There is no LCD smearing, because of how Impulse blinks the backlight. Impulse mode doesn't have any Motion Compensated Frame Interpolation either, which eliminates the artifacting characteristic of MCFI. And most amazingly, it does this with only ~30-33ms of input lag when in Impulse mode. The W850A, and presumably other Sony TVs which implement Impulse, is arguably the best gaming TV ever made. Impulse is so good at creating true CRT-like motion resolution that I'm sitting here watching the World Cup in Impulse mode and I actually prefer the interpolation-free picture over the other Motionflow settings which have MCFI.
Yes, it introduces noticeable flicker and if you are sensitive to CRT flicker you will get an ear-splitting headache after 5 minutes of looking at Impulse. Unless Sony implements 120hz backlight blinking such as Lightboost on computer monitors, flicker is unavoidable at 60hz refresh. You really have to demo Impulse mode before you spend the money unless you enjoy returning TVs to stores, because some people will be accepting of the flicker in Impulse and other people will reject it immediately.
There is also the issue of brightness in Impulse mode. The backlight blinks in a 3:1 refresh, the W850A has a 120hz panel and for 3/4 of the refresh, the backlight is off and for 1/4 of the refresh, the backlight is on. This is how it eliminates the LCD smearing, because the backlight is off while the liquid crystals untwist and twist. However this does mean that brightness of the set drops by a whopping 75% while in Impulse mode. You must use Impulse in a light-controlled room, in my case my room is set up to accommodate my VT60 and so I was able to crank up the brightness settings on the W850A to make Impulse workable in my living room. If you are viewing in a room with a lot of ambient light, Impulse will most assuredly be too dark to be usable. If you are viewing in a room which is set up for a plasma, you'll be fine.
I'm going to go ahead and be brutally honest here, because I'm not being paid to say one thing or another. The motion resolution of the W850A in Impulse is superior to the motion resolution of the VT60 for gaming. The plasma has noticeable blue and orange phosphor trailing at edges due to the different brightness decay rates of the different phosphors, this reduces effective motion resolution. In Game Mode, the VT60 also disables some of it's motion smoothing features and the panel's native motion resolution is roughly 800 lines. The W850A achieves a true 1080 lines of motion resolution in Impulse. Yes, the LCD is clearer than the plasma for playing fast-motion games. Furthermore the W850A has lower input lag than the VT60 in Game Mode, ~30-33ms according to Leo Bodnar vs. ~42-47ms.
Oh right, I also get really nasty IR on my VT60. The UI of FFXIV might as well be a permanent part of my plasma at this point, because I literally have to leave the TV on all night running slides to remove the day's burn-in from gaming, which heats up my house because the plasma is a space heater and triples my electric bill. If I turn the plasma off at night, then I'll have the UI forever on my TV since I can't wash the IR away while the TV is off. The past 7 months of ownership of my plasma has really opened my eyes to the problems of gaming on a VT60. The picture quality is unmatched, but the IR is absolutely a killer for gamers and honestly it drives me nuts that I pretty much can't watch regular TV after a few hours of gaming because I'll have to look at the game UI during the movie or show. With the W850A, after I'm done gaming, I turn it off or I just switch to Game of Thrones. No IR, no worries. In the back of my mind the past 7 months I've always wondered if I was permanently destoying my plasma display panel by playing games with persistent HUD elements so much on it. The VT60 is not a cheap TV either, I don't need this kind of constant worrying.
So for gamers, it really does come down to this. I can't live anymore with the IR and burn-in on my plasma anymore for gaming. The VT60 has literally the best picture quality I have ever seen on a consumer TV. The picture quality of the W850A does not come close to the VT60 in all the traditional measurements of quality, like uniformity, contrast, black level, and dark-room viewing. But as a gaming TV, the W850A KO's the VT60 in the first round and proceeds to kick sand in it's face. Superior motion resolution in games, better input lag, and complete lack of IR/burn-in dramatically outweighs pure picture quality concerns when gaming.
If I could build a TV carousel, I would put these TV back-to-back and turn the carousel around when switching between playing games and watching movies. This isn't particularly feasible and disconnecting and re-connecting cables would be a pain in the ass. So now I face a real dilemma. I could return the W850A to the store and just deal with the fucking pain in the ass that is IR/burn-in. I could put the VT60 back in it's box and try to sell it, I'm sure there's people out there who are still looking for the last of the Panasonic plasmas and I could get a good price for a 7-months used set. But really I wish there was a TV which could combine the best parts of the plasma and the LCD into one amazing God-set. OLED can't come soon enough, I guess.
I hope you enjoyed my wall of text. Also, Uruguay are nothing without Luis Suarez.
All the usual problems common with LED edge-lit LCDs are present in this set. Black screen uniformity would be great if it weren't for the narrow viewing angles on this S-PVA panel, which causes noticeable washout and brightening on the right and left edges. There is slight vignetting on the left and right edges, this is apparently characteristic on the 2013 Sony LCDs and present across the entire range which have TRILUMINOS due to the way the filter is applied to the panel. There is also a "shadow" in the center of the screen which is darker than the edges, so flashlighting is visible during on-angle viewing. There is also vertical banding during horizontal panning shots, especially on solid-color images like soccer fields. So, this set is basically displaying all the flaws of LED edge-lit LCD in terms of uniformity.
The colors on this set are quite good, even though it's not Sony's top-shelf panel as the W850A is the step-down model from the W900A in 2013. The TRILUMINOS filter seems to help a lot, keep in mind I'm comparing the colors on this set to the plasma display panel on my VT60 which supposedly displays 98% DCI color gamut and it compares pretty favorably. It seems a bit undersaturated compared to the VT60 but engaging Live Color switches the TV into the TRILUMINOS expanded gamut and it gets reasonably close to the VT60 without completely oversaturating and exaggerating everything in sight.
Black levels and contrast are of course no contest, the VT60 blows the W850A out of the water in black levels. The lower contrast ratio of the W850A makes general content look more flat than on the VT60, which means for movies at least the superior choice is the plasma. However for the general TV viewing and gaming, the flatter image actually makes things easier to see, this is dramatically evident in games where HUDs tended to be blindingly bright on the plasma compared to the LCD. I'm not sure how I feel about this, especially since the game UIs being blindingly bright also means the UIs just burn in that much faster.
Okay, I've gotten all the usual desultory image quality shit out of the way, now let's talk about gaming.
Motionflow Impulse is MINDBLOWING. Believe the hype, Impulse is for real. It creates true CRT-like motion resolution on an LCD. There is no sample-and-hold. There is no LCD smearing, because of how Impulse blinks the backlight. Impulse mode doesn't have any Motion Compensated Frame Interpolation either, which eliminates the artifacting characteristic of MCFI. And most amazingly, it does this with only ~30-33ms of input lag when in Impulse mode. The W850A, and presumably other Sony TVs which implement Impulse, is arguably the best gaming TV ever made. Impulse is so good at creating true CRT-like motion resolution that I'm sitting here watching the World Cup in Impulse mode and I actually prefer the interpolation-free picture over the other Motionflow settings which have MCFI.
Yes, it introduces noticeable flicker and if you are sensitive to CRT flicker you will get an ear-splitting headache after 5 minutes of looking at Impulse. Unless Sony implements 120hz backlight blinking such as Lightboost on computer monitors, flicker is unavoidable at 60hz refresh. You really have to demo Impulse mode before you spend the money unless you enjoy returning TVs to stores, because some people will be accepting of the flicker in Impulse and other people will reject it immediately.
There is also the issue of brightness in Impulse mode. The backlight blinks in a 3:1 refresh, the W850A has a 120hz panel and for 3/4 of the refresh, the backlight is off and for 1/4 of the refresh, the backlight is on. This is how it eliminates the LCD smearing, because the backlight is off while the liquid crystals untwist and twist. However this does mean that brightness of the set drops by a whopping 75% while in Impulse mode. You must use Impulse in a light-controlled room, in my case my room is set up to accommodate my VT60 and so I was able to crank up the brightness settings on the W850A to make Impulse workable in my living room. If you are viewing in a room with a lot of ambient light, Impulse will most assuredly be too dark to be usable. If you are viewing in a room which is set up for a plasma, you'll be fine.
I'm going to go ahead and be brutally honest here, because I'm not being paid to say one thing or another. The motion resolution of the W850A in Impulse is superior to the motion resolution of the VT60 for gaming. The plasma has noticeable blue and orange phosphor trailing at edges due to the different brightness decay rates of the different phosphors, this reduces effective motion resolution. In Game Mode, the VT60 also disables some of it's motion smoothing features and the panel's native motion resolution is roughly 800 lines. The W850A achieves a true 1080 lines of motion resolution in Impulse. Yes, the LCD is clearer than the plasma for playing fast-motion games. Furthermore the W850A has lower input lag than the VT60 in Game Mode, ~30-33ms according to Leo Bodnar vs. ~42-47ms.
Oh right, I also get really nasty IR on my VT60. The UI of FFXIV might as well be a permanent part of my plasma at this point, because I literally have to leave the TV on all night running slides to remove the day's burn-in from gaming, which heats up my house because the plasma is a space heater and triples my electric bill. If I turn the plasma off at night, then I'll have the UI forever on my TV since I can't wash the IR away while the TV is off. The past 7 months of ownership of my plasma has really opened my eyes to the problems of gaming on a VT60. The picture quality is unmatched, but the IR is absolutely a killer for gamers and honestly it drives me nuts that I pretty much can't watch regular TV after a few hours of gaming because I'll have to look at the game UI during the movie or show. With the W850A, after I'm done gaming, I turn it off or I just switch to Game of Thrones. No IR, no worries. In the back of my mind the past 7 months I've always wondered if I was permanently destoying my plasma display panel by playing games with persistent HUD elements so much on it. The VT60 is not a cheap TV either, I don't need this kind of constant worrying.
So for gamers, it really does come down to this. I can't live anymore with the IR and burn-in on my plasma anymore for gaming. The VT60 has literally the best picture quality I have ever seen on a consumer TV. The picture quality of the W850A does not come close to the VT60 in all the traditional measurements of quality, like uniformity, contrast, black level, and dark-room viewing. But as a gaming TV, the W850A KO's the VT60 in the first round and proceeds to kick sand in it's face. Superior motion resolution in games, better input lag, and complete lack of IR/burn-in dramatically outweighs pure picture quality concerns when gaming.
If I could build a TV carousel, I would put these TV back-to-back and turn the carousel around when switching between playing games and watching movies. This isn't particularly feasible and disconnecting and re-connecting cables would be a pain in the ass. So now I face a real dilemma. I could return the W850A to the store and just deal with the fucking pain in the ass that is IR/burn-in. I could put the VT60 back in it's box and try to sell it, I'm sure there's people out there who are still looking for the last of the Panasonic plasmas and I could get a good price for a 7-months used set. But really I wish there was a TV which could combine the best parts of the plasma and the LCD into one amazing God-set. OLED can't come soon enough, I guess.
I hope you enjoyed my wall of text. Also, Uruguay are nothing without Luis Suarez.
Did you disable the Ambient Light sensor? I assume you have. I heard it helps with the dimming issue.
TheCochese
Banned
Does the VT60 not have an anti-retention scrolling bar? That really has saved my bacon on my X1. Those bugs on the kids channels could have killed it early on.
Dude, that's not normal. I have some very slight IR I can't shift (Xbox logo at the top right from my Xbox One) but it's so faint, you really have to look for it. That said, even with the most arduous gaming sessions with persistent HUDs, I've never had IR that lasts for more than an hour or so.
the scroll bar is useless. I made a video years ago for my plasma when trying to remove a stuck pixel. It also works as quick anti-retention removal.
I uploaded it here: http://www.kingfiles.net/o4p6v7ect0g4/burn_remover.rar
Simply play it off usb stick on your tv or game console.
My Pioneer Plasma never has IR, though ive probably at most left a static image for 2hours. My TV moves the image 8 pixels in each direction (Oribiter) to prevent IR, and of course burn in.
I still dont get how Panasonic havent overcome this issue, my TV is from 2008....
Yeah, VT60 has the orbiter too. I had a lot of IR in the early hours of the panel but it's hard to get something stuck on it now. The WWE logo during PPVs used to kill it but it never hangs around anymore.