Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

My Pioneer Plasma never has IR, though ive probably at most left a static image for 2hours. My TV moves the image 8 pixels in each direction (Oribiter) to prevent IR, and of course burn in.
I still dont get how Panasonic havent overcome this issue, my TV is from 2008....

It's because of 3d. Panasonic plasmas prior to 3d were fine. Pioneer never had to do 3d so it's hard to say how they would have handled it.
 
It's because of 3d. Panasonic plasmas prior to 3d were fine. Pioneer never had to do 3d so it's hard to say how they would have handled it.

Pioneer also used a fundamentally different pixel driving technology than Panasonic. I never heard of IR on a Kuro but everyone and their mother has a post about IR on Pannys, just Google it and you'll get hundreds of stories like mine.
 
Because of that crazy Fry's sale (65W850A @ $1499), I have been demoing one of these sets in my home. Yes, I currently have a Sony LED edge-lit LCD sitting on a coffee table in front of my VT60. This double-TV effect is jarringly realistic, like the double-frame effect you get when playing a 30fps console game on a fast-refresh TV like a plasma or...a Sony TV with Motionflow Impulse.

All the usual problems common with LED edge-lit LCDs are present in this set. Black screen uniformity would be great if it weren't for the narrow viewing angles on this S-PVA panel, which causes noticeable washout and brightening on the right and left edges. There is slight vignetting on the left and right edges, this is apparently characteristic on the 2013 Sony LCDs and present across the entire range which have TRILUMINOS due to the way the filter is applied to the panel. There is also a "shadow" in the center of the screen which is darker than the edges, so flashlighting is visible during on-angle viewing. There is also vertical banding during horizontal panning shots, especially on solid-color images like soccer fields. So, this set is basically displaying all the flaws of LED edge-lit LCD in terms of uniformity.

The colors on this set are quite good, even though it's not Sony's top-shelf panel as the W850A is the step-down model from the W900A in 2013. The TRILUMINOS filter seems to help a lot, keep in mind I'm comparing the colors on this set to the plasma display panel on my VT60 which supposedly displays 98% DCI color gamut and it compares pretty favorably. It seems a bit undersaturated compared to the VT60 but engaging Live Color switches the TV into the TRILUMINOS expanded gamut and it gets reasonably close to the VT60 without completely oversaturating and exaggerating everything in sight.

Black levels and contrast are of course no contest, the VT60 blows the W850A out of the water in black levels. The lower contrast ratio of the W850A makes general content look more flat than on the VT60, which means for movies at least the superior choice is the plasma. However for the general TV viewing and gaming, the flatter image actually makes things easier to see, this is dramatically evident in games where HUDs tended to be blindingly bright on the plasma compared to the LCD. I'm not sure how I feel about this, especially since the game UIs being blindingly bright also means the UIs just burn in that much faster.

Okay, I've gotten all the usual desultory image quality shit out of the way, now let's talk about gaming.

Motionflow Impulse is MINDBLOWING. Believe the hype, Impulse is for real. It creates true CRT-like motion resolution on an LCD. There is no sample-and-hold. There is no LCD smearing, because of how Impulse blinks the backlight. Impulse mode doesn't have any Motion Compensated Frame Interpolation either, which eliminates the artifacting characteristic of MCFI. And most amazingly, it does this with only ~30-33ms of input lag when in Impulse mode. The W850A, and presumably other Sony TVs which implement Impulse, is arguably the best gaming TV ever made. Impulse is so good at creating true CRT-like motion resolution that I'm sitting here watching the World Cup in Impulse mode and I actually prefer the interpolation-free picture over the other Motionflow settings which have MCFI.

Yes, it introduces noticeable flicker and if you are sensitive to CRT flicker you will get an ear-splitting headache after 5 minutes of looking at Impulse. Unless Sony implements 120hz backlight blinking such as Lightboost on computer monitors, flicker is unavoidable at 60hz refresh. You really have to demo Impulse mode before you spend the money unless you enjoy returning TVs to stores, because some people will be accepting of the flicker in Impulse and other people will reject it immediately.

There is also the issue of brightness in Impulse mode. The backlight blinks in a 3:1 refresh, the W850A has a 120hz panel and for 3/4 of the refresh, the backlight is off and for 1/4 of the refresh, the backlight is on. This is how it eliminates the LCD smearing, because the backlight is off while the liquid crystals untwist and twist. However this does mean that brightness of the set drops by a whopping 75% while in Impulse mode. You must use Impulse in a light-controlled room, in my case my room is set up to accommodate my VT60 and so I was able to crank up the brightness settings on the W850A to make Impulse workable in my living room. If you are viewing in a room with a lot of ambient light, Impulse will most assuredly be too dark to be usable. If you are viewing in a room which is set up for a plasma, you'll be fine.

I'm going to go ahead and be brutally honest here, because I'm not being paid to say one thing or another. The motion resolution of the W850A in Impulse is superior to the motion resolution of the VT60 for gaming. The plasma has noticeable blue and orange phosphor trailing at edges due to the different brightness decay rates of the different phosphors, this reduces effective motion resolution. In Game Mode, the VT60 also disables some of it's motion smoothing features and the panel's native motion resolution is roughly 800 lines. The W850A achieves a true 1080 lines of motion resolution in Impulse. Yes, the LCD is clearer than the plasma for playing fast-motion games. Furthermore the W850A has lower input lag than the VT60 in Game Mode, ~30-33ms according to Leo Bodnar vs. ~42-47ms.

Oh right, I also get really nasty IR on my VT60. The UI of FFXIV might as well be a permanent part of my plasma at this point, because I literally have to leave the TV on all night running slides to remove the day's burn-in from gaming, which heats up my house because the plasma is a space heater and triples my electric bill. If I turn the plasma off at night, then I'll have the UI forever on my TV since I can't wash the IR away while the TV is off. The past 7 months of ownership of my plasma has really opened my eyes to the problems of gaming on a VT60. The picture quality is unmatched, but the IR is absolutely a killer for gamers and honestly it drives me nuts that I pretty much can't watch regular TV after a few hours of gaming because I'll have to look at the game UI during the movie or show. With the W850A, after I'm done gaming, I turn it off or I just switch to Game of Thrones. No IR, no worries. In the back of my mind the past 7 months I've always wondered if I was permanently destoying my plasma display panel by playing games with persistent HUD elements so much on it. The VT60 is not a cheap TV either, I don't need this kind of constant worrying.

So for gamers, it really does come down to this. I can't live anymore with the IR and burn-in on my plasma anymore for gaming. The VT60 has literally the best picture quality I have ever seen on a consumer TV. The picture quality of the W850A does not come close to the VT60 in all the traditional measurements of quality, like uniformity, contrast, black level, and dark-room viewing. But as a gaming TV, the W850A KO's the VT60 in the first round and proceeds to kick sand in it's face. Superior motion resolution in games, better input lag, and complete lack of IR/burn-in dramatically outweighs pure picture quality concerns when gaming.

If I could build a TV carousel, I would put these TV back-to-back and turn the carousel around when switching between playing games and watching movies. This isn't particularly feasible and disconnecting and re-connecting cables would be a pain in the ass. So now I face a real dilemma. I could return the W850A to the store and just deal with the fucking pain in the ass that is IR/burn-in. I could put the VT60 back in it's box and try to sell it, I'm sure there's people out there who are still looking for the last of the Panasonic plasmas and I could get a good price for a 7-months used set. But really I wish there was a TV which could combine the best parts of the plasma and the LCD into one amazing God-set. OLED can't come soon enough, I guess.

I hope you enjoyed my wall of text. Also, Uruguay are nothing without Luis Suarez.
Impulse on the 65x950b is tremendous thanks to the expanded brightness. I use it on my w900 but only in the dark due to the reduced brightness.
 
Impulse on the 65x950b is tremendous thanks to the expanded brightness. I use it on my w900 but only in the dark due to the reduced brightness.

They improved Impulse on the 2014s? How is the input lag on the 2014 Sony 4Ks? And is flicker improved too?

I'm willing to bring this W850A back and upgrade to an X850/950 if it's way better.
 
They improved Impulse on the 2014s? How is the input lag on the 2014 Sony 4Ks? And is flicker improved too?

I'm willing to bring this W950A back and upgrade to an X850/950 if it's way better.
The 950 with dynamic range pro has a higher brightness output. Impulse is way brighter at max backlight compared to other 2014 models. This is the $8000 flagship mind you. The other 2014s are still too dark to use during the day IMO
 
looking to get a 40 inch tv, with a budget of 600 CAD, is there a consensus on the best tv(s) in that price range? using it as a computer monitor so no plasma, should be led unless someone knows better. suggestions pls thxxx
 
Hello GAFERS I was wondering if you guys could help me out on my HDTV purchase. My budget is about 1000$ and I was looking at these two tvs and having a hard time making up my mind. I will ultimately be using the TV for gaming and movies and one is a Sony and the other is a Samsung. I generally don't want to go over 46-47 inches http://store.sony.com/47-diag-w802a-series-led-internet-tv-zid27-KDL47W802A/cat-27-catid-EOL-Sony-HDTVs http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I94IR8G/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00I94IR8G&linkCode=as2&tag=myjugjou-20&linkId=R2XCHUW3LXB6FYQ4
 
Pioneer also used a fundamentally different pixel driving technology than Panasonic. I never heard of IR on a Kuro but everyone and their mother has a post about IR on Pannys, just Google it and you'll get hundreds of stories like mine.

IR is more than just the driving technology. You also have to take into account the phosphor materials which Panasonic had to change to keep adequate brightness for 3D. I have done plenty of research and have first hand experience with Pioneer and Panasonic plasmas, I don't need to do much googling.
 
Cross posting this from the new PC thread, if anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it.

This may not be the place to ask but I need help.

I currently have my PC plugged into a monitor as well as my TV (47kdl802a Sony) everything works fine it goes through my stereo system and everything.

Problem is the blacks are showing up gray, I can't figure it out I have tried messing with the TV settings but I'm not sure what else I can do, its driving me nuts, makes everything look washed out.
 
Cross posting this from the new PC thread, if anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it.

This may not be the place to ask but I need help.

I currently have my PC plugged into a monitor as well as my TV (47kdl802a Sony) everything works fine it goes through my stereo system and everything.

Problem is the blacks are showing up gray, I can't figure it out I have tried messing with the TV settings but I'm not sure what else I can do, its driving me nuts, makes everything look washed out.

I'm guessing you have a Nvidia card?

2 possible solutions:

  • Home > Settings > Picture & Display > Pro Picture Setup > Dynamic Range > Set HDMI port to Limited
    This is the menu path on my W900A, I'm guessing it will be similar for your TV
  • Or use Durante's Nvidia RGB Full/limited range toggler to force full range output on your video card (requires restart): link
 
I'm guessing you have a Nvidia card?

2 possible solutions:

  • Home > Settings > Picture & Display > Pro Picture Setup > Dynamic Range > Set HDMI port to Limited
    This is the menu path on my W900A, I'm guessing it will be similar for your TV
  • Or use Durante's Nvidia RGB Full/limited range toggler to force full range output on your video card (requires restart): link

Thank you for the info, one quick question. Do I want the PC and TV both set to limited or do I want them both set to full?

Thank you for your help.
 
Thank you for the info, one quick question. Do I want the PC and TV both set to limited or do I want them both set to full?

Thank you for your help.

Limited is probably the most hassle free way to go, in which case, you wont need the toggler program. Just remember to set any of your consoles to limited as well, some of them have messed up full range anyways.
 
Who's as lucky as I am to have Estus Flask shadow permanently on their lower-left side of their 65" F8000?
4ib4KL65T.png
 
Could someone with some high speed recording equipment capture the Impulse setting on the Euro spec W9?

I wonder if it pulses the light at uneven rate at 60hz as I can't detect the flicker at 50hz.
 
I bought the Sony 42W829 a couple weeks ago

Cost me £579 and that was with the free sound bar promotion that sony had on.

It's a really great TV and I am super happy with it, my only real gripe is I should have gone for the 50" although I do have 90 days to exchange it, so might do it in time for destiny.

I seriously would recommend this TV though, it's so good!
 
Bought a Changhong 40" 1080p LED during a Newegg deal about a month ago for $230, just had a chance to game on it a bit this weekend, and it looks great. Don't notice any lag either, played around 3 hours of Shadow Fall Intercept and some Trials Fusion as well.

Despite the goofy name, the TV seems to be a great budget option for gaming.
 
I don't have enough HDMI ports, I'm contemplating an HDMI switch. Probably any one from amazon less than $20. Will it add a lag for gaming or is that not a concern?
 
Someone I know might be getting a 65X950B in the too distant future. Hope to spend some time with it. Outcome will decide whether I decide to contemplate buying it. :(

Read a review saying it might not be the best choice for gaming...wonder how it'll perform upscaling PS4/Bone content...
 
Someone I know might be getting a 65X950B in the too distant future. Hope to spend some time with it. Outcome will decide whether I decide to contemplate buying it. :(

Read a review saying it might not be the best choice for gaming...wonder how it'll perform upscaling PS4/Bone content...

I have this years sony 4k (XBR65X850A), and I think games look amazing! granted my last tv was a few years old (52XBR4). I play via PS4.
 
You playing DS 1 or 2? 2 has a great option in the menu to auto hide the HUD when you're just running around. Should help with IR
You got burn in on an led tv?? Pics?
You can get IR on any TV.
DS is a brutal game for IR. Had the HUD burned in my Plasma for a long, long time. Can totally believe it when you say it's on your LED.

What a douche; not a F8000, it's my F8500. Obviously so distraught from not being able to play Dark Souls haha.

Yeah, DS1 atm; was going to try 2 soon but the IR has scared the heck out of me; I've tried both full white screen for hours on end and the built-in IR scrolling screens for hours with nothing fixing it yet. Did you ever end up fixing it, CoG? If so, how so? Can't wait to get my next electricity bill O_O
 
Because of that crazy Fry's sale (65W850A @ $1499), I have been demoing one of these sets in my home. Yes, I currently have a Sony LED edge-lit LCD sitting on a coffee table in front of my VT60. This double-TV effect is jarringly realistic, like the double-frame effect you get when playing a 30fps console game on a fast-refresh TV like a plasma or...a Sony TV with Motionflow Impulse.

All the usual problems common with LED edge-lit LCDs are present in this set. Black screen uniformity would be great if it weren't for the narrow viewing angles on this S-PVA panel, which causes noticeable washout and brightening on the right and left edges. There is slight vignetting on the left and right edges, this is apparently characteristic on the 2013 Sony LCDs and present across the entire range which have TRILUMINOS due to the way the filter is applied to the panel. There is also a "shadow" in the center of the screen which is darker than the edges, so flashlighting is visible during on-angle viewing. There is also vertical banding during horizontal panning shots, especially on solid-color images like soccer fields. So, this set is basically displaying all the flaws of LED edge-lit LCD in terms of uniformity.

The colors on this set are quite good, even though it's not Sony's top-shelf panel as the W850A is the step-down model from the W900A in 2013. The TRILUMINOS filter seems to help a lot, keep in mind I'm comparing the colors on this set to the plasma display panel on my VT60 which supposedly displays 98% DCI color gamut and it compares pretty favorably. It seems a bit undersaturated compared to the VT60 but engaging Live Color switches the TV into the TRILUMINOS expanded gamut and it gets reasonably close to the VT60 without completely oversaturating and exaggerating everything in sight.

Black levels and contrast are of course no contest, the VT60 blows the W850A out of the water in black levels. The lower contrast ratio of the W850A makes general content look more flat than on the VT60, which means for movies at least the superior choice is the plasma. However for the general TV viewing and gaming, the flatter image actually makes things easier to see, this is dramatically evident in games where HUDs tended to be blindingly bright on the plasma compared to the LCD. I'm not sure how I feel about this, especially since the game UIs being blindingly bright also means the UIs just burn in that much faster.

Okay, I've gotten all the usual desultory image quality shit out of the way, now let's talk about gaming.

Motionflow Impulse is MINDBLOWING. Believe the hype, Impulse is for real. It creates true CRT-like motion resolution on an LCD. There is no sample-and-hold. There is no LCD smearing, because of how Impulse blinks the backlight. Impulse mode doesn't have any Motion Compensated Frame Interpolation either, which eliminates the artifacting characteristic of MCFI. And most amazingly, it does this with only ~30-33ms of input lag when in Impulse mode. The W850A, and presumably other Sony TVs which implement Impulse, is arguably the best gaming TV ever made. Impulse is so good at creating true CRT-like motion resolution that I'm sitting here watching the World Cup in Impulse mode and I actually prefer the interpolation-free picture over the other Motionflow settings which have MCFI.

Yes, it introduces noticeable flicker and if you are sensitive to CRT flicker you will get an ear-splitting headache after 5 minutes of looking at Impulse. Unless Sony implements 120hz backlight blinking such as Lightboost on computer monitors, flicker is unavoidable at 60hz refresh. You really have to demo Impulse mode before you spend the money unless you enjoy returning TVs to stores, because some people will be accepting of the flicker in Impulse and other people will reject it immediately.

There is also the issue of brightness in Impulse mode. The backlight blinks in a 3:1 refresh, the W850A has a 120hz panel and for 3/4 of the refresh, the backlight is off and for 1/4 of the refresh, the backlight is on. This is how it eliminates the LCD smearing, because the backlight is off while the liquid crystals untwist and twist. However this does mean that brightness of the set drops by a whopping 75% while in Impulse mode. You must use Impulse in a light-controlled room, in my case my room is set up to accommodate my VT60 and so I was able to crank up the brightness settings on the W850A to make Impulse workable in my living room. If you are viewing in a room with a lot of ambient light, Impulse will most assuredly be too dark to be usable. If you are viewing in a room which is set up for a plasma, you'll be fine.

I'm going to go ahead and be brutally honest here, because I'm not being paid to say one thing or another. The motion resolution of the W850A in Impulse is superior to the motion resolution of the VT60 for gaming. The plasma has noticeable blue and orange phosphor trailing at edges due to the different brightness decay rates of the different phosphors, this reduces effective motion resolution. In Game Mode, the VT60 also disables some of it's motion smoothing features and the panel's native motion resolution is roughly 800 lines. The W850A achieves a true 1080 lines of motion resolution in Impulse. Yes, the LCD is clearer than the plasma for playing fast-motion games. Furthermore the W850A has lower input lag than the VT60 in Game Mode, ~30-33ms according to Leo Bodnar vs. ~42-47ms.

Oh right, I also get really nasty IR on my VT60. The UI of FFXIV might as well be a permanent part of my plasma at this point, because I literally have to leave the TV on all night running slides to remove the day's burn-in from gaming, which heats up my house because the plasma is a space heater and triples my electric bill. If I turn the plasma off at night, then I'll have the UI forever on my TV since I can't wash the IR away while the TV is off. The past 7 months of ownership of my plasma has really opened my eyes to the problems of gaming on a VT60. The picture quality is unmatched, but the IR is absolutely a killer for gamers and honestly it drives me nuts that I pretty much can't watch regular TV after a few hours of gaming because I'll have to look at the game UI during the movie or show. With the W850A, after I'm done gaming, I turn it off or I just switch to Game of Thrones. No IR, no worries. In the back of my mind the past 7 months I've always wondered if I was permanently destoying my plasma display panel by playing games with persistent HUD elements so much on it. The VT60 is not a cheap TV either, I don't need this kind of constant worrying.

So for gamers, it really does come down to this. I can't live anymore with the IR and burn-in on my plasma anymore for gaming. The VT60 has literally the best picture quality I have ever seen on a consumer TV. The picture quality of the W850A does not come close to the VT60 in all the traditional measurements of quality, like uniformity, contrast, black level, and dark-room viewing. But as a gaming TV, the W850A KO's the VT60 in the first round and proceeds to kick sand in it's face. Superior motion resolution in games, better input lag, and complete lack of IR/burn-in dramatically outweighs pure picture quality concerns when gaming.

If I could build a TV carousel, I would put these TV back-to-back and turn the carousel around when switching between playing games and watching movies. This isn't particularly feasible and disconnecting and re-connecting cables would be a pain in the ass. So now I face a real dilemma. I could return the W850A to the store and just deal with the fucking pain in the ass that is IR/burn-in. I could put the VT60 back in it's box and try to sell it, I'm sure there's people out there who are still looking for the last of the Panasonic plasmas and I could get a good price for a 7-months used set. But really I wish there was a TV which could combine the best parts of the plasma and the LCD into one amazing God-set. OLED can't come soon enough, I guess.

I hope you enjoyed my wall of text. Also, Uruguay are nothing without Luis Suarez.

Can you please post your settings? I sort of impulse bought the Sony W850. I have a 65 inch panasonic S64, which is an amazing TV for gaming/movies/HD content all under the reference setting. The colors look washed out and I can't seem to find good settings for the W850.
 
My almost 1 year old VT60 now has vertical banding to the far right of the screen. Around 3,4 lines that goes from bottom to the top of the screen. They are most visible with green/grey/white background.

I have mailed Panasonic with pictures of this.

To be continued..
 
My almost 1 year old VT60 now has vertical banding to the far right of the screen. Around 3,4 lines that goes from bottom to the top of the screen. They are most visible with green/grey/white background.

I have mailed Panasonic with pictures of this.

To be continued..

Can you post them here? Intrigued to see what it looks like so I know if I get it down the line.
 
Can you please post your settings? I sort of impulse bought the Sony W850. I have a 65 inch panasonic S64, which is an amazing TV for gaming/movies/HD content all under the reference setting. The colors look washed out and I can't seem to find good settings for the W850.

Did you turning off the Eco friendly settings?
 
What a douche; not a F8000, it's my F8500. Obviously so distraught from not being able to play Dark Souls haha.

Yeah, DS1 atm; was going to try 2 soon but the IR has scared the heck out of me; I've tried both full white screen for hours on end and the built-in IR scrolling screens for hours with nothing fixing it yet. Did you ever end up fixing it, CoG? If so, how so? Can't wait to get my next electricity bill O_O

It gradually went away after a couple of months of watching fullscreen content. I also ran the Disney WoW disc pixel flipper a few times but the best bet is to let it organically fade away.

Really spooked me from playing games with persistent HUDs.
 
Can you post them here? Intrigued to see what it looks like so I know if I get it down the line.

I think I have the same thing, but I've had it since I purchased the TV. I did a lot of research around the net and apparently it has something to do with the filter.
 
My almost 1 year old VT60 now has vertical banding to the far right of the screen. Around 3,4 lines that goes from bottom to the top of the screen. They are most visible with green/grey/white background.

I have mailed Panasonic with pictures of this.

To be continued..

The used VT60 I got has em too. I think they are just endemic to the model, I doubt there is an actual "fix."
 
I've been gaming with an old but servicable PC monitor for years (ps3 and 360) and plan on getting something in the range of 27-30 inches range when I get a new console. I'm a noob with this stuff but I'm figuring something at 1080p and 60 hz would be fine for a ps4?
 
So I caved and went for a 55W905 this past weekend. The last few are going for less than half of what they were a year ago so just couldn't resist. It's replaced my 50W685 (W656 with passive 3D) which I was reasonably satisfied with but was always a bit more of a compromise than I would've ideally liked. Was initially looking at a 55W829 for the extra size but the 55W905 for the same price was a no brainer

After getting over the fact the W9 somehow has an even narrower viewing angle than the W6 and the off angle pink cast, I'm very happy with it. It's a proper upgrade over the W6 and simply puts out an overall classier image in all departments really. And although I'm not a massive 3D fan, I definitely prefer the active 3D over the passive on the W6 too as I could never tolerate the lowered resolution.

I'm finding the additional motion enhancers handy as well. Clear seems to be the most rounded as the reviews say with minimal brightness drop and lack of the horrible daytime soap effect. After reading Unknown Soldier's and others' praising of the Impulse mode, I really do want to try and give it a proper go as well. The W6 had it but I could never get over the 75% brightness loss. Plus it seems like it effects contrast, colour and gamma as well as brightness so would need a proper calibration with a metre so make it look right. But the last time I used my i1 was over 3 years ago so it'll have drifted into being as good as useless now unfortunately!

What settings do folk use for gaming with Impulse mode on? Anyone done a calibration with a metre with it set to on? Even with backlight and contrast cranked to max and gamma on 0 or +1 it still just looks off to me, and not just because of the dimness.
 
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