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[Aztechnology]

Sorry, but 67.5ms is no where near "severe lag". To most people, its not even noticeable. It's not great lag, especially for competitive gaming - but for the majority of casual gamers its just fine.

People blow input lag out of proportion. My friend and I gamed on a 87ms plasma for years and never noticed any input lag that affected our experience, and we did well in multiplayer games as well. Everyone has different "sensitivities," but you'll find most casual gamers aren't sensitive to it at all. In fact, unless you hang around gaming and/or technology forums you probably wouldn't even know what input lag was and just enjoyed gaming as is.

Just because you can't get used to something doesn't mean you don't notice an acute difference. Going from my ASUS MG279Q and Acer K27HUL at around 8-9ms a piece to the 37ms on the Samsung KS8000 was noticeable for me personally. But obviously it's up to each person. 60ms for me, which I've done before on my TV prior to my monitors was just too much for me. I never want to go back.

 

[Chao]

Can someone look at their 2016 OLED and tell me if you have little dots around the outer edge of your set on the black part, not the glass.

I'm wondering if those are like glue or screw points or something.

You can only see them if you look for them while cleaning the screen.

Like tiny holes all around the frame? Yep

 

[mmazurkiewicz]

Ok thanks. I figured it was made like that but just an odd thing Ive noticed for the first time.

Anyhow, came to mention my one big complaint about the LG OLEDs, the magic remote does not light up! So frustrating..

 

[b0bbyJ03]

Has there been any word from either Sony or LG about a patch for the B6 HDCP problem with the Pro. I popped in a Blu ray and forgot that I had to turn off HDCP in order to get 4K HDR to work. Was so annoyed when I couldn't watch it.

 

[MazeHaze]

Just because you can't get used to something doesn't mean you don't notice an acute difference. Going from my ASUS MG279Q and Acer K27HUL at around 8-9ms a piece to the 37ms on the Samsung KS8000 was noticeable for me personally. But obviously it's up to each person. 60ms for me, which I've done before on my TV prior to my monitors was just too much for me. I never want to go back.

I don't understand the argument that ~70 ms is "fine" as long as you aren't a "hard core competitive gamer." That shit is just false and sounds like a justification for how great the PQ of OLED is. To me, 70ms is like, the mouse moves noticeably after I move my wrist. It all feels sluggish and wrong, whereas anything under 30 feels nice and snappy. To me the most important aspect of a games playability is how it feels from a tactile perspective, and anything over 30 or so is just too much. Yeah you can get used to 70 ms input lag, and even enjoy games that way, I know I have, but if I'm dropping upwards of 2000 dollars on a TV, that amount of lag is way beyond the acceptable threshold.

 

[Weevilone]

I don't understand the argument that ~70 ms is "fine" as long as you aren't a "hard core competitive gamer." That shit is just false and sounds like a justification for how great the PQ of OLED is. To me, 70ms is like, the mouse moves noticeably after I move my wrist. It all feels sluggish and wrong, whereas anything under 30 feels nice and snappy. To me the most important aspect of a games playability is how it feels from a tactile perspective, and anything over 30 or so is just too much. Yeah you can get used to 70 ms input lag, and even enjoy games that way, I know I have, but if I'm dropping upwards of 2000 dollars on a TV, that amount of lag is way beyond the acceptable threshold.

The argument is that I'd rather have an OLED with 67ms input lag than a Samsung LCD with 20 or whatever. In fact it's not even an argument at all, just a personal preference having own previous Samsung TVs.

 

[Kyoufu]

Apparently Sony are going to release an OLED TV in 2017.

If true then it'll no doubt be one to keep an eye out for. Could blow away LG's own TVs.

 

[Nostremitus]

Apparently Sony are going to release an OLED TV in 2017.

If true then it'll no doubt be one to keep an eye out for. Could blow away LG's own TVs.

Unless Sony developed a new way to make OLED, it's either going to be prohibitively expensive or it'll use an LG panel. LG owns the patent for the inexpensive OLED process.

 

[Zera_Bloodwinter]

I know this is a "TV" thread but I'm looking for a new 4K gaming monitor for my PS4 Pro and my pc. Looking for something in the 27-32" range with amazing input times. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I can't do fps games on 40-50 inch monster tvs.

 

[Kyoufu]

Unless Sony developed a new way to make OLED, it's either going to be prohibitively expensive or it'll use an LG panel. LG owns the patent for the inexpensive OLED process.

They were always going to be expensive, regardless of the manufacturing process.

Sony just released an LCD TV that costs as much if not more than LG's current line of OLED TVs. lol

 

[FPS murderer]

Some info leaked out about 2017 OLEDs for those waiting

http://flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1478782911


Beautiful picture! That looks gorgeous!

They better HDR+Game mode out of the box!

 

[hoverboarder]

They were always going to be expensive, regardless of the manufacturing process.

Sony just released an LCD TV that costs as much if not more than LG's current line of OLED TVs. lol

Yeah, the Sony OLED rumor has been going around forever. People forget they had the first (but very small) OLED in 2008, and their OLED reference monitor has won an Oscar and is used by most of Hollywood in editing bays. Sony doesn't pursue OLED because while it has infinite contrast, burn in and a short life span are inherent to the technology. Also they're not very bright and have a low motion rate, which was a compelling reason to get a plasma once. Many of these reasons on top of being dangerous to produce (resulting in deaths) lead to Samsung dropping OLED TVs from their lineup.

Sony's Z series LED is a big deal because it has the best black levels of any LED, high motion rate, and a redesigned video processor that does object based upscaling. Brightest TV ever, supposed to be close to 4000 nits. I'm looking forward to where they go with this, and think it will outlast OLED which isn't selling very well and I've experienced many complaints about firsthand.

Just to chime in with something a little different.

 

[sector4]

Those Sony OLED reference monitors are great, I have one of them at work.

Brightest TV ever, supposed to be close to 4000 nits.

While the prototype was 4000, the final retail unit is actually closer to 1800 nits. That doesn't mean next years model couldn't get closer to the prototype though! Even at 1800 though you're right, it's the brightest TV ever, and after comparing it to the Panasonic DX902 and LG E6 I honestly believe it is the TV to beat right now.

 

[Geneijin]

If the ZD9 65 inch was like $3000-3500, I would own one right now but it's too much for me. Best TV in the market right now though.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Yeah, the Sony OLED rumor has been going around forever. People forget they had the first (but very small) OLED in 2008, and their OLED reference monitor has won an Oscar and is used by most of Hollywood in editing bays. Sony doesn't pursue OLED because while it has infinite contrast, burn in and a short life span are inherent to the technology. Also they're not very bright and have a low motion rate, which was a compelling reason to get a plasma once. Many of these reasons on top of being dangerous to produce (resulting in deaths) lead to Samsung dropping OLED TVs from their lineup.

Sony's Z series LED is a big deal because it has the best black levels of any LED, high motion rate, and a redesigned video processor that does object based upscaling. Brightest TV ever, supposed to be close to 4000 nits. I'm looking forward to where they go with this, and think it will outlast OLED which isn't selling very well and I've experienced many complaints about firsthand.

Just to chime in with something a little different.

You can see the highlights of white rice, although I wasn't really impressed with the overall PQ. Maybe the demo bitrate is to low.

 

[Chao]

I don't understand the argument that ~70 ms is "fine" as long as you aren't a "hard core competitive gamer." That shit is just false and sounds like a justification for how great the PQ of OLED is. To me, 70ms is like, the mouse moves noticeably after I move my wrist. It all feels sluggish and wrong, whereas anything under 30 feels nice and snappy. To me the most important aspect of a games playability is how it feels from a tactile perspective, and anything over 30 or so is just too much. Yeah you can get used to 70 ms input lag, and even enjoy games that way, I know I have, but if I'm dropping upwards of 2000 dollars on a TV, that amount of lag is way beyond the acceptable threshold.

You can think what you want, but I'm not looking at numbers on a data sheet, I own one of those tvs and nothing feels sluggish or wrong even on HDR mode.

For reference, I've played DMC4 in this set and can instant rev pretty easily, and that was next to impossible in my old LCD

 

[Weevilone]

If the ZD9 65 inch was like $3000-3500, I would own one right now but it's too much for me. Best TV in the market right now though.

If they made a 55" ZD9 then I'd be buying one right now. I don't have any space for a 65" for my gaming display. I do wish they'd drop the Android nonsense.

 

[hoverboarder]

You can think what you want, but I'm not looking at numbers on a data sheet, I own one of those tvs and nothing feels sluggish or wrong even on HDR mode.

For reference, I've played DMC4 in this set and can instant rev pretty easily, and that was next to impossible in my old LCD

To be clear, OLED is amazing. I just presented a case for its alternative because I think it's worth talking about more than it is.

 

[Kyoufu]

You can think what you want, but I'm not looking at numbers on a data sheet, I own one of those tvs and nothing feels sluggish or wrong even on HDR mode.

For reference, I've played DMC4 in this set and can instant rev pretty easily, and that was next to impossible in my old LCD

DMC4 isn't HDR so I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. 67ms for HDR gaming is not good.

 

[dallow_bg]

Some info leaked out about 2017 OLEDs for those waiting

http://flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1478782911


Beautiful picture! That looks gorgeous!

Cost estimates for wallpaper TVs?

 

[x3sphere]

Cost estimates for wallpaper TVs?

Probably really expensive - I wouldn't be surprised to see $10K+ to start.

 

[b0bbyJ03]

Just wanted to get some opinions on something. I recently bought the B6 and I generally watch it in a light controlled environment. One thing that stuck out to me was how bright it was out of the box. I really enjoy the HDR but after a while it feels like its very bright and I have to take a break from it. I keep the OLED light at 70 for HDR content and 25 for normal content. There seems to be a race to see who can make the brightest TV and from my perspective I'm wondering how comfortable that will be to watch. Do people generally keep their backlights all the way up? Just wondering how people feel about the overall brightness of these sets.

 

[captscience]

so yall and others who got that OLED deal.... how was the delivery? did you ask the driver to stick around to check the TV?

how did your box look? any little dents? UPS Right?

Received my 55E6 this morning. Unfortunately it was delivered to my office before I arrived.

The TV was double boxed and packed well. The exterior box was dented in one corner but it was padded well and there was plenty of space between boxes. The actual TV box looks perfect.

 

[ukas]

The LG HDR gaming issue is starting to gain some traction. Both of these articles were posted in the past couple of days.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1479106744
http://4k.com/news/angry-gamers-pet...put-lag-problem-in-its-4k-hdr-oled-tvs-17341/

 

[Nostremitus]

They were always going to be expensive, regardless of the manufacturing process.

Sony just released an LCD TV that costs as much if not more than LG's current line of OLED TVs. lol

Yes, and LGs current line of expensive OLED panels are using the cheaper production method that they patented.

Sony won't have that benefit, so their OLED would need to be considerably more expensive than LG's for a panel that wouldn't be much better, if at all. That is, unless Sony developed a new method of creating OLED or they are using LG panels.

LG owns and controls the OLED TV market because they invented the technology that made it cost effective and reliable for large screens. Essentially, they own the means to create large screen OLED.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

Yes, and LGs current line of expensive OLED panels are using the cheaper production method that they patented.

Sony won't have that benefit, so their OLED would need to be considerably more expensive than LG's for a panel that wouldn't be much better, if at all. That is, unless Sony developed a new method of creating OLED or they are using LG panels.

LG owns and controls the OLED TV market because they invented the technology that made it cost effective and reliable for large screens. Essentially, they own the means to create large screen OLED.

As mentioned previously, it's possible for LG to provide OLED panels to other manufacturers. They already do so for LCDs. Combining LG's OLED panels with Sony's processing could very well make for better TVs than those provided by LG themselves.

 

[Yappadappadu]

Really curious to see whether Sony would implement BFI, something that so far other manufacturers haven't done with LG OLED panels.

 

[Theonik]

If the ZD9 65 inch was like $3000-3500, I would own one right now but it's too much for me. Best TV in the market right now though.

If you were in the UK I could grab you one!

 

[Kyoufu]

As mentioned previously, it's possible for LG to provide OLED panels to other manufacturers. They already do so for LCDs. Combining LG's OLED panels with Sony's processing could very well make for better TVs than those provided by LG themselves.

If Sony can offer me a 75" OLED in the four figure range I'd definitely jump ship from LG to them.

I would miss webOS a lot though.

 

[sector4]

If Sony can offer me a 75" OLED in the four figure range I'd definitely jump ship from LG to them.

I would miss webOS a lot though.

That seems mighty wishful, isn't the closest thing LG's 77" which is currently $18k on Amazon?

I have no idea what Sony's prices are going to be like, but expect them to be a lot more than LG, they always have been.

 

[SOLDIER]

There are so many TV threads out there that it's hard to keep track of. This one looks like it might be the place for the more technical kinds of questions.

I've got an LG OLED E6. I'll be sharing my current settings after day one tinkering:

First, here are the settings under HDR:

Picture Mode: HDR Bright (User)

OLED Light: 100
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 70
Sharpness: 40
Color: 65
Tint: 0
Color Temperature: C3

Dynamic Contrast: High
Dynamic Color: High
Color Gamut: Wide
Super Resolution: High
Gamma: Medium

Picture Options are all Off, Black Level is Low.

Here they are with HDR off:

Picture Mode: ISF Expert (Bright Room)

OLED Light: 100
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 70
H Sharpness: 40
V Sharpness: 10
Color: 50
Tint: 0

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Super REsolution: High
Color Gamut: Wide
Edge Enhancer: On
Color Filter: Off
Gamma: 1.9

I'm mostly satisfied with how things look so far, but I wish the panel was a little brighter. Setting Brightness higher than 70 just washes everything out.

Here's a strange thing: when I open up the settings menu, the screen actually lights up the way I want it too; the picture not obscured by the settings menu gets noticeably brighter and poppier when the menu is up, but then reverts when I close it.

How can I make it so that it's got the same brightness as when the settings menu is up?

 

[jfoul]

I talked to Chris at Cleveland AV. Coming from a Panasonic UT50, I'm probably not going to like the KS8000. I'm just going to wait until CES 2017 to see the new OLED offering, or pick up a B6/C6 discounted during March/April. I'll be in Portland by then, and will save on sales tax.

 

[Xamdou]

Yeah, the Sony OLED rumor has been going around forever. People forget they had the first (but very small) OLED in 2008, and their OLED reference monitor has won an Oscar and is used by most of Hollywood in editing bays. Sony doesn't pursue OLED because while it has infinite contrast, burn in and a short life span are inherent to the technology. Also they're not very bright and have a low motion rate, which was a compelling reason to get a plasma once. Many of these reasons on top of being dangerous to produce (resulting in deaths) lead to Samsung dropping OLED TVs from their lineup.

Sony's Z series LED is a big deal because it has the best black levels of any LED, high motion rate, and a redesigned video processor that does object based upscaling. Brightest TV ever, supposed to be close to 4000 nits. I'm looking forward to where they go with this, and think it will outlast OLED which isn't selling very well and I've experienced many complaints about firsthand.

Just to chime in with something a little different.

Source to those?

 

[Afrikan]

There are so many TV threads out there that it's hard to keep track of. This one looks like it might be the place for the more technical kinds of questions.

I've got an LG OLED E6. I'll be sharing my current settings after day one tinkering:


I'm mostly satisfied with how things look so far, but I wish the panel was a little brighter. Setting Brightness higher than 70 just washes everything out.

Here's a strange thing: when I open up the settings menu, the screen actually lights up the way I want it too; the picture not obscured by the settings menu gets noticeably brighter and poppier when the menu is up, but then reverts when I close it.

How can I make it so that it's got the same brightness as when the settings menu is up?

Is there an energy saver mode? My LG Plasma that I gave to my mom had it, and if someone accidentally clicked it on the remote, it affects the brightness.

 

[theSlacker]

I'm just going to wait until CES 2017 to see the new OLED offering, or pick up a B6/C6 discounted during March/April. I'll be in Portland by then, and will save on sales tax.

That is my plan right now as well. Well other then the Portland part.

 

[SOLDIER]

Is there an energy saver mode? My LG Plasma that I gave to my mom had it, and if someone accidentally clicked it on the remote, it affects the brightness.

It does, but I'm certain I turned it off. Unless there are other energy saving modes I'm not aware of.

 

[Metalstrike]

Anyone have any thoughts on the Sony X930D/XD93 now that the input lag is down a bit? I currently have a 65" KS8000 and while I do like the input lag on the set and colors, I'm not super impressed by much else. Namely, I have some irritating banding/dse, light clouding, multiple dead pixels and am not really satisfied with the sets overall dimming implementation. The QC leaves a lot to be desired as well. I don't know, there is just something about the picture which is just off. I also don't like that I have a 2008 Panasonic plasma that does some things better, namely motion and uniformity. I want my new set to completely blow me away!

I am still within my 90 day return policy at Costco so I am tempted at a different set. I am now considering either a X930 or going with an OLED B series. Another issue is that If buy the Sony, I could get a 65" X930 but if I go with LG B6 I could only do 55" due to the cost. I don't really want to spend more that $2000 right now. I already ruled out Vizio for various reasons. My current Plasma is a 50" and size was the main upgrade reason right now, this 4K and HDR stuff is just an added headache. Honestly, if my plasma was a 60" or 65" I probably wouldn't even upgrade now.

What do you all think I should do? I know the OLED has unbeatable ass kicking overall picture quality, but the Sony has always impressed me as well, and least seeing store demos. I also hear Sony's upscaling is second to none which is a nice plus. I know it is still edge lit but the dimming seems better.

Thanks!

 

[sector4]

Anyone have any thoughts on the Sony X930D/XD93 now that the input lag is down a bit? I currently have a 65" KS8000 and while I do like the input lag on the set and colors, I'm not super impressed by much else. Namely, I have some irritating banding/dse, light clouding, multiple dead pixels and am not really satisfied with the sets overall dimming implementation. The QC leaves a lot to be desired as well. I don't know, there is just something about the picture which is just off. I also don't like that I have a 2008 Panasonic plasma that does some things better, namely motion and uniformity. I want my new set to completely blow me away!

I am still within my 90 day return policy at Costco so I am tempted at a different set. I am now considering either a X930 or going with an OLED B series. Another issue is that If buy the Sony, I could get a 65" X930 but if I go with LG B6 I could only do 55" due to the cost. I don't really want to spend more that $2000 right now. I already ruled out Vizio for various reasons. My current Plasma is a 50" and size was the main upgrade reason right now, this 4K and HDR stuff is just an added headache. Honestly, if my plasma was a 60" or 65" I probably wouldn't even upgrade now.

What do you all think I should do? I know the OLED has unbeatable ass kicking overall picture quality, but the Sony has always impressed me as well, and least seeing store demos. I also hear Sony's upscaling is second to none which is a nice plus. I know it is still edge lit but the dimming seems better.

Thanks!

The XD93 is also an edge-lit panel so if it's between that and the B6, I'd go for the B6, if you can live with the lower size, but if you're going from 50" and have gotten used to 65" with the KS8000, maybe the XD93 is your only other option? Have you looked at the Panasonic DX900/2? That would be my pick in that sort of price range as it's 65", direct led backlight with FALD and awesome picture.

 

[Weevilone]

There is nothing to prevent Sony using an LG OLED panel in a Sony TV. Some of the best Sony displays used Samsung panels in them. I'm not sure what they use these days.

 

[sector4]

There is nothing to prevent Sony using an LG OLED panel in a Sony TV. Some of the best Sony displays used Samsung panels in them. I'm not sure what they use these days.

From memory they're using chinese panels, AOC? Does that sound right?

 

[Kyoufu]

From memory they're using chinese panels, AOC? Does that sound right?

I was under the impression that Sony sourced their LCD panels from LG, no?

 

[SOLDIER]

The energy saver options are definitely off. I just can't seem to find a way to achieve the same level of brightness that occurs when the settings menu is up.

I asked in an AVS thread and the best answer I got was essentially "deal with it".

 

[Haint]

Yes, and LGs current line of expensive OLED panels are using the cheaper production method that they patented.

Sony won't have that benefit, so their OLED would need to be considerably more expensive than LG's for a panel that wouldn't be much better, if at all. That is, unless Sony developed a new method of creating OLED or they are using LG panels.

LG owns and controls the OLED TV market because they invented the technology that made it cost effective and reliable for large screens. Essentially, they own the means to create large screen OLED.

LOL LG didn't invent shit, they bought their OLED technology and associated patents from Kodak. The key being the use of white OLED's with color filters--which was all Kodak's doing, not LG.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

For those that have access to firmware updates or considering Vizio 2016 P Series, XB1S HDR10 for gaming has received it's update, along with some other fixes.

 

[Metalstrike]

The XD93 is also an edge-lit panel so if it's between that and the B6, I'd go for the B6, if you can live with the lower size, but if you're going from 50" and have gotten used to 65" with the KS8000, maybe the XD93 is your only other option? Have you looked at the Panasonic DX900/2? That would be my pick in that sort of price range as it's 65", direct led backlight with FALD and awesome picture.

Tough choice on the size but I am adaptable to new experiences if need be. I have heard great things about the Panasonic but they don't sell those in the US for whatever reason. More competition would always be welcome. Thanks for the input!

 

[DJ Lushious]

For those that have access to firmware updates or considering Vizio 2016 P Series, XB1S HDR10 for gaming has received it's update, along with some other fixes.

Holy shit! Too bad that the firmware comes out in waves I wish Matt would do something other than PM him the serial of your HDTV. I don't see why a direct link to the USB firmware wouldn't be more viable.

 

[SOLDIER]

Can anyone with a B6/E6 confirm if the same thing happens to their picture when hitting "all settings"? It doesn't make sense to me at all that there would be an exclusive brightness that looks way better than what I have when the settings menu is up.

Tried calling LG but the tech support that handles this particular TV is closed for the day, so I'll have to try tomorrow.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Holy shit! Too bad that the firmware comes out in waves I wish Matt would do something other than PM him the serial of your HDTV. I don't see why a direct link to the USB firmware wouldn't be more viable.

Forgot to mention that this release is sort of beta, test have been proven to be stable though. It will be available through download to thunmb drive in a week or to.

 

[jstevenson]

Can anyone with a B6/E6 confirm if the same thing happens to their picture when hitting "all settings"? It doesn't make sense to me at all that there would be an exclusive brightness that looks way better than what I have when the settings menu is up.

Tried calling LG but the tech support that handles this particular TV is closed for the day, so I'll have to try tomorrow.

are you looking at it with static patterns? You know about ABL right? The brightness of the set drops pretty drastically if it detects a static image for too long.

So if the TV is paused or on a test pattern for a while, then yeah, the menus are a lot brighter.

Generally speaking no, I don't think the menus are vastly brighter when i click it on them watching SDR content on my E6

 

[SOLDIER]

are you looking at it with static patterns? You know about ABL right? The brightness of the set drops pretty drastically if it detects a static image for too long.

So if the TV is paused or on a test pattern for a while, then yeah, the menus are a lot brighter.

Generally speaking no, I don't think the menus are vastly brighter when i click it on them watching SDR content on my E6

Nope, I'm looking at it while the game is running. I even move the character/camera around to be sure. I've also checked other games and even cable TV shows (cartoons on Cartoon Network are where you'll really notice).

There's a noticeable difference, and if it's not something other users are seeing than I need to have someone from LG come over or something.

Maybe if I'm lucky he'll do a free calibration or something. I just need an expert to look at it and tell me if it's normal or not. But I really don't think it is, because a picture being exclusively brighter through a menu setting makes zero sense to me.