Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
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I just tried that, no dice. I have tried everything I can think of! This sucks.
I have the XBR65X850A and I love it. whether it be movies or gaming it's an awesome set. I'm playing last of us right now and it's stunning. I definitely recommend it.
I was worries about the lag but with gaming mode it's almost non-existent.
lostinblue
Banned
Yeah, I know, in fact I just how realized you've said F5x00 and not H5000, I was starting to get excited at the prospect of a smaller non-pentile H5000... Oh well.
H5000 lags 37.7 ms via leo bodnar and that's pretty good.
According to Display Lag it lags 47ms, which is 10 extra ms.
It's not horrible, but I like to be able to stick as close as I can to 33 ms.
Other than that, (faster processing and H5000 game mode and renaming input to "PC" are equal, unlike with F5300) they should be very similar.
Has to be some sort of option/configuration.
Everything works fine if you disconnect the Xbox?
Have you tried moving it to the last port on the receiver? toggle it, not all ports are equal for almost every receiver, still these are 1080p things... should be straighforward enough. (I'm obviously grasping but sometimes grasping works)
Yes. It's only the Xboxs. If I have just my cable box and ps4, it works fine.
I wonder if I should give up. With the harmony remote, I could just change the mode as part of the actions right? I dunno what to do.
Input lag appears to be the same. Since the 2nd gen sets have high input lag, I would expect the same hardware and result to be in the upgraded box. Someone on AVS recently did a Leo Bodnar test after a firmware update claiming it went from 82 to 60. Slight improvement but pretty much still shit. More and more reviews are starting to measure/report lag so hopefully Samsung takes notice and puts more emphasis on it. I'm not very familiar with the 1st gen sets so I don't know about the sharpening issue.
FrankNitty
Member
Absolutely not essential in any way. The reason I bought one is pretty simple, 1. I got it for a price lower then list anywhere. 2. I wanted an LCD and a 4K TV to play with until my next upgrade. 3. I have the money to buy one and when coupled with items 1 and 2, it really was a fuck it why not scenario.
Right now 4K reminds me of when I got a 3D display in 2010. No real content out except some exclusive stuff from some manufactures (ex. samsung hd pack, sony media player, etc) most has to be found online. I think next year we will start seeing more content.
It's just something that is nice to have but not needed. I will probably upgrade again in a year or so once they have large size 4K OLED at a reasonable price. Though I have to admit for critical viewing I will still be using the ZT60 or 500M
I myself am an early adopter. I always have been and always will be. I would say unless you have disposable income and can afford it don't get a 4K TV unless you are getting an LCD. Only reason I say that is because if you get a high end LCD now it will probably have 4K anyways. Otherwise you are better served getting an 8500.
lostinblue
Banned
Ok, I did a quick read on the situation and thought a little and I think there's two things you could try.
I'm pretty confident on the first one though.
First is, go to your Xbox One (it's a Xbox One right?)
If so, it supports 4K and I think you might be getting no image because the console things your TV is 4K because the receiver can ID itself as 4K ready, it's a handshake problem, basically, Xbox One has some issues there.
Look here:
http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/system/adjust-display-settings
Set TV resolution to 1080p, switch off HDMI auto detect (set it to 1080p too!)
Like I said I'm confident about this one, try it.
Second is seeing if the Denon has it's software up to date and if not, upgrade. It's a 2014 product, it might have some incompatibilities that have been fixed already via update.
Unknown Soldier
Member
You could eye the X900A instead, it's being cleared out for ~$2,500 these days.
So I bought the Disney Wow disc, I own a Sony W900a. When attempting to adjust for contrast, only the +6 and +7 areas of the checkered boxes blend into the background, even at max contrast.
Anyone know why? I know the W900a was Sony's best model last year, and everyone loves it and I have as well, but I would like to get proper whites.
I'm using game mode for my PS4 if that would have an effect.
Edit: So I use cinema 1 on my PS3 for blu-ray, when I go to adjust the brightness it doesn't matter how bright I were to make it anything from ideal black to invisible is the same color. Here is an Image of what I mean, .
I know my camera phone sucks, but anyway. So everything from the ideal line back it's like the checkers don't even exist.
Is the cinema mode just set up to be almost perfect? Cause I more or less just set the brightness to just before the visible squares dissappear, about 55.
Anyone know why? I know the W900a was Sony's best model last year, and everyone loves it and I have as well, but I would like to get proper whites.
I'm using game mode for my PS4 if that would have an effect.
Edit: So I use cinema 1 on my PS3 for blu-ray, when I go to adjust the brightness it doesn't matter how bright I were to make it anything from ideal black to invisible is the same color. Here is an Image of what I mean, .
I know my camera phone sucks, but anyway. So everything from the ideal line back it's like the checkers don't even exist.
Is the cinema mode just set up to be almost perfect? Cause I more or less just set the brightness to just before the visible squares dissappear, about 55.
mitchman
Gold Member
This is a common myth that gets thrown around as some kind of justification for not buying a 4k set. Real life tests show otherwise. Here's one: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-resolution-201312153517.htm
All video is compressed, even Blu-Ray. And Netflix uses the h265 codec at 18Mbps, a codec that is around 40% more efficient than h264. Youtube has lots of high bitrate 4k videos that play just fine, btw. Lots of it.
eso76
Member
There's a trick to input lag on samsungs, the fastest mode is not actually game mode but renaming the HDMI port consoles are taking as "PC".
Of course this is perfect for consoles and PC, but not as good for movies, hence you want to use one hdmi port for movie settings and other for game settings, if possible, instead of changing "that" all the time.Yup!
this is a nice workaround.
But what if i want to play Blurays on PS4 ?
Also, i was considering buying a projector in the future and i would use Marantz's 2nd output for that.
So, being the smart(ass) i am, i thought of something else...
Do you think a HDMI splitter would work here ?
Marantz's output 1 goes to the splitter, which doubles the signal to 2 hdmi cables, which will both go to the tv: IN1 (PC) and IN2 (Movies). So, i will just have to switch inputs on the tv to view a source in movie or pc mode.
Will this introduce lag or make the video worse in any way ?
Or is there some sort of protection that will make doubling, say, PS4's signal impossible ?
After a couple of weeks, I'm still in love with my Bravia 50W829. It's pretty amazing.
I'm really surprised at how hardy it is with playing video files, including some 17GB MKV files, from a USB hard-drive. The downside to this is that it doesn't deal with folders, instead scanning the whole drive including folders (!) and showing thumbnails (!!) of the videos. This can be pretty slow with a 1TB HDD. I wish it would browser folders with filenames, but I can't fault the playback quality.
Also, I was lead to believe the smart TVs suck, but youtube and netflix are a joy on this thing, not least of which because I can use my phone as a keyboard, or send content directly from the Youtube/netflix apps.
I'm really surprised at how hardy it is with playing video files, including some 17GB MKV files, from a USB hard-drive. The downside to this is that it doesn't deal with folders, instead scanning the whole drive including folders (!) and showing thumbnails (!!) of the videos. This can be pretty slow with a 1TB HDD. I wish it would browser folders with filenames, but I can't fault the playback quality.
Also, I was lead to believe the smart TVs suck, but youtube and netflix are a joy on this thing, not least of which because I can use my phone as a keyboard, or send content directly from the Youtube/netflix apps.
Ok, I did a quick read on the situation and thought a little and I think there's two things you could try.
I'm pretty confident on the first one though.
First is, go to your Xbox One (it's a Xbox One right?)
If so, it supports 4K and I think you might be getting no image because the console things your TV is 4K because the receiver can ID itself as 4K ready, it's a handshake problem, basically, Xbox One has some issues there.
Look here:
http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/system/adjust-display-settings
Set TV resolution to 1080p, switch off HDMI auto detect (set it to 1080p too!)
Like I said I'm confident about this one, try it.
Second is seeing if the Denon has it's software up to date and if not, upgrade. It's a 2014 product, it might have some incompatibilities that have been fixed already via update.
I will try this tonight when I get home. I got pulled away by the wife and baby last night. I hate leaving stuff unfinished! This is happening with both my Xbox ONe and my 360. Right now I am just trying to get one to work with both cables connected!
I know that my Denon upgraded it's firmware when I started it up for the first time, so I am assuming it is the most up to date.
I am hoping this works. If it doesn't, will I be able to keep it with one cable, and let my new remote handle the switching of modes? That will probably be slow too huh?
Lastly, my stupid sub-woofer has blown two fuses. I am plugging it into the receiver, and then turning it on. The Denon does not even think there is a sub-woofer, so I doubt it is throwing out a signal!
I saw this review on the Amazon UK site, hope it helps.
The contrast test does not work for those tv's (in my case a Sony w905) that won't show reference white. This is a known problem and I wish I had looked online before wasting my money on this. Apparently one has to raise contrast until there is a slight change of hue to get the right contrast for those tv's that can't show reference white but this is not mentioned in the dvd and is difficult to do.
So i hope the mighty GAF can help me.
I am looking for a new TV ( germany) for my second home ( Student). I want a sony because of the really good input lags they have.
At amazon I could get the 50W656 for 699. The newer Model is the 50w705b or 50W805b. But hey cost 149-200 more. I don't see a very big difference in them, but I know a lot of people here do own Sony TV's. Because of that I want to know if the newer models are worth it, or should I go with the w656. What are your experiences with those TVs?
I am looking for a new TV ( germany) for my second home ( Student). I want a sony because of the really good input lags they have.
At amazon I could get the 50W656 for 699. The newer Model is the 50w705b or 50W805b. But hey cost 149-200 more. I don't see a very big difference in them, but I know a lot of people here do own Sony TV's. Because of that I want to know if the newer models are worth it, or should I go with the w656. What are your experiences with those TVs?
Mohonky
Member
There is likely something else going on behind the scenes, make sure all settings related to 'enhancements' are turned off, things like dynamic contrast etc. my old Lcd was the same, no matter how pumped up or low contrast was, contrast test images always appeared the same, adjusting them made no difference to the test image. It could be a setting only available through the service menu so hard to say. There is almost always some kind of processing going on with the image by the individual set by each manufacturer.
I almost bought the 656, but I went for the 2014 model instead (829b in the UK). It cost £150 more, but I was able to get it bundled with a £100-ish soundbar. I've been really impressed with the Smart TV apps, such as 1080p MKV playback, Netflix and Youtube. 4x HDMI ports is nice too. I haven't used both TVs, but it's probably not worth buying this year's model unless you can get a good bundle.
You're using a black level (brightness) test pattern, at least in that picture. Contrast is for adjusting white level and will use a different test pattern. Assuming you are using "limited" and not "full" you shouldn't see anything below the ideal black, as you are not supposed to.
Unless I'm missing something because you seem to be talking about both black and white level here, but that is definitely a black level pattern.
Thank you very much for your opinion. No i can't get a good bundle. This is the lowest i can get
Mediamarkt and Saturn dont want to deal with me. They say our price or non. Well then i rather go to amazon. Any other impressions from users ?
FrankNitty
Member
Looks like you are using the basic one, Try using advanced with the stars for brightness. You are not supposed to see anything below ideal black.
On a step pattern like this if you can get to 247/248 you're good anything higher great. Ideally you do not want it to change color like getting a blue/green/red tint to it. if you do you are clipping whites and need to dial it down. Run a pattern like this for contrast.
FunkyPajamas
Member
FrankNitty
Member
This is not true. You can tell the difference. At just a tad over 8' viewing distance (and when I say a tad i mean like 2" or 3") from a 65" 4K display I can easily tell the difference between 1080P and 4K. Hell even my wife can and she doesn't have a discerning eye for this.
It was even more visible when I had my 4K set sitting below my ZT60 before I moved everything around and I hooked up my X900B to test it out the box that it is a 4K panel.
Those charts that people reference is for when it gives the most visible benefit. You have to take into account that if you are slightly out of the "recommended" viewing distance you will still see an increase in resolution. Will you see a 100% increase...no. Will you see a 20%, 30%, 40% or maybe even 50%, there is actually a good chance you will. So being just outside of it doesn't mean that you will not see 4K. The charts are saying you won't get the full benefit of it. This doesn't mean you lose the benefit of the added resolution nor does it mean you cannot see it.
Someone pointed out to me that I should shutoff and unplug power to everything. Then bring up the receiver and TV, then the components. That not doing this could cause a handshake issue (and it is also bad to plug and play HDMI cables)
I guess I can try that one too.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
That's a bold face lie.
Modern VA panels were coming out along with the advent of 1080p in most marketplaces back then.
There has been practically no change whatsoever in contrast, brightness, black levels, viewing angles or motion resolution in all that time.
There are a few VA sets that reach the `4,000:1 contrast ratio mark compared to every other VA panel's typical `3,000:1 ratio.
The only breakthroughs are super expensive full array local dimming sets with lots of zones & backlight scanning to eliminate blur (which only Sony does).
lostinblue
Banned
Huh... What? I don't even...
Thing is VA panels were far from the jewel of the crown then, IPS was. Several reasons for that inherent to the implementation (hertz they existed on, it's easier to pull a 240 Hz IPS than it is a 240 Hz VA Panel... same for 120 Hz and they have more motion blur to boot), but things have gotten better since and the fact they are used on top range LCD's now means companies are willing to spend more on them than before, and that helps. For me that's like implying Active Matrix hasn't changed much since the 90's because... Hey, it's still Active Matrix!
There was a shift and in 2006 (8 years go, remember) most screens were still CCFL.
After that we had LED (so better dimming, and that did a difference on dimming), some Full Array LED early implementations (on IPS) and back to edge lit latelt (which wasn't an upgrade against full array I'll agree, but was when flagships ditched IPS).
Anyway things changed in the last 8 years, a lot. For the better, and we could go on and on. If you were stating that since the last full array screens launched as flagships in 2009/2010 there was not so much an improvement as there has been a shift of choices with advantages and disadvantages I would mostly agree, because some things became better, others were changed in order to ensure more profit. But that's not what you're saying.
I respectfully agree to disagree.
Panasonic is doing that this year too.
And this is not even the first time Full Array "happened" in the last 8 years. The previous ones were pretty competent actually, even if down to processing and feature support I still think stuff changed a lot in the last few years. But they're still good. They're 4/5 years old now though. Not 8 years gone.
FrankNitty
Member
I know years ago sony had a Full Array I think it was the HX950 and LG had one which was the LH90, and I think Samsung had one also.
i bought a samsung UN40F5500 for use with pc gaming and while it advertises that "clear motion rate" of 120 bullshit it says online that it is a 60hz tv, yet vsync is defaulting to 120 according to fraps in games that have their own vsync option and still getting tearing, and d3doverrider isn't working at all. and there's no option to change anything in the menus except "motionflow" which i've turned off. the tv itself even says '1920x1080/60p' when you press info. am i just fucked or what, what is going on aahh
So I think I figured out the issue, the/my PS3 just won't display WTW or BTB, all the correct bars and boxes show up on my PS4. Even when I play around with the limited and full rgb I get the same thing. I believe this is referred to as clipping?
So I calibrated on my PS4 and just transferred the settings to my PS3 input. Just not sure if I should have my PS3 set to full or limited rgb for blu-ray movies.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Welp, you should get commission, 'cause you just sold me on the Sony KDL-55W800B
simplythebest
Banned
Can any gaming tv aficionados around here tell me if this make and model would be any good for gaming? Mostly for PS3 and PS4.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insigni...hdtv/2992002.p?id=1219085626464&skuId=2992002
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insigni...hdtv/2992002.p?id=1219085626464&skuId=2992002
For movies RGB limited. Super White: on.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Hey guys, quick q: Sharp 60le650 vs Sony 60W855B? Sharp is cheaper and seems to have better specs on paper but it is an older model. I've never had a Sharp TV before. Are they good?
BruiserBear
Banned
All of the sharps have high input lag. The Sony's are the lowest on the market.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Just received my FMP-X10 today from Amazon. The thing looks like a smaller, squared-off PS4. If the PS4 is really going to be the basis for Sony's product design language going forward, that would be awesome.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Oh man, Breaking Bad is available in 4K on the FMP-X10.
Too bad each episode costs $4, really Sony? How much do you expect me to pay to watch this entire series in 4K? Wait, I can do the math on that. $4 x 62 episodes = $248. Who do you think you are kidding?
edit: The rental prices for movies seem very fair, $8 to rent for 24 hours. But actually buying movies costs $30-35 and many movies are not available for rent. Damn you, Sony! I might buy Elysium, it's $35 but I heard that one was pretty decent. Lawrence of Arabia is available to rent though, I wonder how that one looks in 4K.
Too bad each episode costs $4, really Sony? How much do you expect me to pay to watch this entire series in 4K? Wait, I can do the math on that. $4 x 62 episodes = $248. Who do you think you are kidding?
edit: The rental prices for movies seem very fair, $8 to rent for 24 hours. But actually buying movies costs $30-35 and many movies are not available for rent. Damn you, Sony! I might buy Elysium, it's $35 but I heard that one was pretty decent. Lawrence of Arabia is available to rent though, I wonder how that one looks in 4K.
How does Breaking Bad compare between Sony and Netflix 4K?
Unknown Soldier
Member
Well I would have to buy an episode on Video Unlimited 4K just to compare to Netflix...
I actually heard some Netflix 4K isn't awful, but I haven't tried it myself yet.
Unconditional
Member
Tough decisions. Trying to choose between sharp 70sq15u, samsung 65h7150, or sony 70kdl850b. They are all around the price range but can't really decide. I should just overkill my budget and get the F8500
lostinblue
Banned
^ Sharp is known to be very non-gamer friendly when it comes to lag.
I like the brand quite a bit, but yeah.
EDIT: For that model, minimum measured lag is 60 ms.
The Sony or the F8500 are fine choices if you ask me, for different reasons. W850B is mostly a regular TV, but really good for gaming because Sony cares about that, also good out of the box when it comes to calibration... and the F8500 is the best looking TV on sale this year if you ask me so the thing I'd buy for image quality and still good enough for gaming, but it's upper range than the TV's you're looking into as of now.
The 65h7150 is a little jack of all trades master of none, but it is probably a "discounted" F8000 or something.
I like the brand quite a bit, but yeah.
EDIT: For that model, minimum measured lag is 60 ms.
The Sony or the F8500 are fine choices if you ask me, for different reasons. W850B is mostly a regular TV, but really good for gaming because Sony cares about that, also good out of the box when it comes to calibration... and the F8500 is the best looking TV on sale this year if you ask me so the thing I'd buy for image quality and still good enough for gaming, but it's upper range than the TV's you're looking into as of now.
The 65h7150 is a little jack of all trades master of none, but it is probably a "discounted" F8000 or something.
Crazymoogle
Member
Well, it's about time that I have to replace my Panasonic 2006 PX60U, and now I'm really struggling.I'd just buy the next Panasonic Plasma but I see that's not an option anymore, and there seems to be 5 50-60" TVs in every flyer for around 1k-1.2k, but in input lag, I suppose they are probably all awful?
CNET is propping up the W802/W900 but neither of those is actually sold in Canada at a cursory glance. Are there some current "budget" (1k-1.2k) favourites?
edit: well, RTINGS is a godsend for current gen TV info. Really great resource. They point directly at the W800B. Which is great except that FS/BB sell it for $550 more than the Amazon list price...
CNET is propping up the W802/W900 but neither of those is actually sold in Canada at a cursory glance. Are there some current "budget" (1k-1.2k) favourites?
edit: well, RTINGS is a godsend for current gen TV info. Really great resource. They point directly at the W800B. Which is great except that FS/BB sell it for $550 more than the Amazon list price...
Unconditional
Member
Thanks for the info. I actually ended up getting the 7150 last night. It had more of what I wanted in the main living room. I can get a more gaming friendly set for the man cave later.
lostinblue
Banned
Shame about the IPS *systematic* choice and the fact Toshiba's usually blow up or something.
They could be a really good brand if they invested more heavily in staying on the top of their game. Really fast game mode Toshiba's actually started in 2012 or before, it's not a 2014 tendency... Sadly they were otherwise crap.
They could be a really good brand if they invested more heavily in staying on the top of their game. Really fast game mode Toshiba's actually started in 2012 or before, it's not a 2014 tendency... Sadly they were otherwise crap.
Crazymoogle
Member
That's a shame to hear. The whole divide right now between IPS (bad black levels) and VA (bad off-axis) is rough. (Not that I've trusted a Toshiba set since the pre-trinitron days, though.) I'd consider hunting for a place to buy the W800B or W850 - or I guess W790B, stupid Canadian models - online but from every bad thing I've heard about axis now I pretty much have to take my wife to a store to see if it's as bad as they say. I'm willing to accept a few different things compared to my 2006 Plasma but I still need a better TV overall.
The last day of looking at RTINGS, this thread, and a few other places has been a real eye opener. About the only thing I'm having a lot of real trouble with is all of the even cheaper models. Electronics stores seem to be plastered with ads for 50/60" sets that are dirt cheap, but figuring out *why* they are cheap is pretty difficult. If only the bodnar device was in stock...
lostinblue
Banned
Biggest reason to be weary of them in my book is that A-Boards simply go kaboom. Most I've met that bought one in the last few years had problems.
A bad panel is a bad panel, but not being reliable is pretty bad.
I know of a Canadian horror story with Sony TV's that happened on these forums, basically they bought a W600B, got home and tested it and it had dead pixels going on, the store refused to take it back and Sony did as well. This in 2014. They are enforcing the dead pixel policies from 2004 in there... And this is not 6 months from purchase, it's hours. I was quite honestly flabbergasted.
Dead pixels are not a common fault at this point (and thus, they should simply trade it and apologize), but damn. From hearing that I'd go into the store with all my shit to test TV's and just open the TV inside their store or something. Which was what people did with PSP's back in 2004. Surreal.
I'd give up on the cheap.
... But if you want inches, consider the BenQ w1080ST, it lags very little (33 ms) and it's pretty capable.
also, if you came from plasma (and didn't just play games on it) you'll probably like the F8500 a lot. Plasma people can be very picky with LCD's, albeit form 2006 to now both plasma and LCD evolved quite a lot.