Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

I do notice input lag in other instances of course, but that doesn't mean the whole thing didn't get overblown quite a bit lately. People are playing PS4 on their Vitas via remote play with as much as 240ms of lag (latest Killzone, what else?) and they don't even care. Most people only care if they get told it's higher than average due to pride and ego or something, like they're not getting their money's worth.

The fact that some people can enjoy the remote play experience at 240ms of lag means nothing to me. As I was just saying, this isn't about being able to play the game. Lots of people will tell you that new Toshiba TV they bought looks AMAZING. That doesn't make it so. A game may be playable with 240ms of lag, but it's certainly not going to play like the game makers intended. It's going to be a compromised experience.



we're at this, this is useful for ST60 owners:

A1RHsYs.png


Minimum lag is actually not as high as some reviews said (I recall some were over the moon, real world seems to be ~54ms or so?), thing is some dudes didn't really test it extensively to come to other conclusions

I suspect those numbers are from the CRT monitor comparisons with a high speed camera.


don't know what the game developers wanted the game to feel like, or with what in mind did they balance it's gameplay... But they probably didn't balance it for a PC monitor or a Sony W705B.

While they may have designed things to be playable with some input lag, things always feel better with less. It will be easier to line up shots, and easier to make that jump, etc.
 
Out with the old...

IMG_20140811_170704.jpg


In with the new...

IMG_20140811_193303.jpg


Loving this new Samsung UE32H5000, especially for £180 delivered.

(apolos for the fuzzy-ass phone pics)
 
I could easily feel the difference between the 43ms my VT60 lagged and the 18ms the W850A I returned lagged. There was no placebo effect, mouse response on the Windows desktop felt much better. Of course now I'm back on this X900A with around 41ms lag. I have paid a high price indeed for 4K.

I'm not buying the snake oil the input lag deniers are selling. The lag difference is trivially easy to feel if you connect a gaming PC to your TV and navigate the Windows desktop. If you don't play PC games on your TV like I do, connect your ST60 or any other laggy TV to your laptop if you don't believe me, and just open a web browser window and minimize and maximize it. You can easily see the TV lagging behind the laptop's own display from this simple test.
 
So there is a brand new LG 55" OLED coming out in a few weeks apparently exclusive at Best Buy for now. Supposedly 240hz and higher brightness than the last model... and it's only $3500.

That's an insane price considering its supposed to be gen 2 panel... if the motion is truly improved over last years...I think I might fucking bite... screw a larger screen size...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-55-c...846019.p?id=1219295374459&skuId=7846019&st=lg oled&cp=1&lp=1

First version had like 100 ms input lag - if they haven't improved that it won't be so great for gaming.
 
So. heres one great idea I just had.

Its hard for people to judge whether a 40ms lag is too much for them or if they would be ok with 200.

That's why someone who can code (i cant) should work on the "great lag simulator"
A simple PC app that just displays your inputs with a delay you can edit.
Should be very easy right ?

Of course it should take your monitor lag into account, which you could enter manually or could be obtained from some comprehensive lag database (as could the data of the TV you want to simulate) and specific game lags.

Let's say, I enter:
18ms lag (monitor I currently use)
78ms lag (TV I want to buy)
120ms lag (killzone 5 input lag when different from your typical 30 or 60 fps game default lag)

So my inputs will be shown (in a very simple way, think flashing squares) with a 78-18+120- *whatever the simulator itself lag is*.

Would really help people decide how much they should care about lag



Anyone feels like taking it ?
 
I have gamed on a Panasonic PZ85u plasma for the last 5 years or so. I noticed a major difference in input lag as soon as I played on the Vizio M series LCD I just bought. I love the picture but I think it's gonna go back. Can't tolerate it.
 
I have gamed on a Panasonic PZ85u plasma for the last 5 years or so. I noticed a major difference in input lag as soon as I played on the Vizio M series LCD I just bought. I love the picture but I think it's gonna go back. Can't tolerate it.

Yup. CNET's review says the M-series has almost 42ms of lag. The B-series have less, but they also don't look as nice as the M-series both physically and picture quality wise.

Take a good look at the Sony 600b or 800b models.
 
What about Panasonic LCD? How is the input lag on these sets?


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/panason...hdtv/3730052.p?id=1219093275246&skuId=3730052

Seems the input lag on the Vizio E series is much better than M at 27ms. Maybe I'll just exchange the two and call it a day. Costco is going to despise me.

http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-e550i-b2/2/

I don't believe I've seen any input lag numbers of this year's Panasonics. I can tell you I messed around with one Panasonic LED model at a store and it had no game mode, so I wouldn't be real confident about that.

Be careful with the Vizio. CNET showed a 28ms input lag for the 55 inch E model, but the smaller model had a much higher number. Look at the boxes below on that page, and you'll see the number for the two models they tested are different.

That's the thing with Vizio. Their models, and even the sizes within the same model can vary quite a bit.
 
I don't believe I've seen any input lag numbers of this year's Panasonics. I can tell you I messed around with one Panasonic LED model at a store and it had no game mode, so I wouldn't be real confident about that.

Be careful with the Vizio. CNET showed a 28ms input lag for the 55 inch E model, but the smaller model had a much higher number. Look at the boxes below on that page, and you'll see the number for the two models they tested are different.

That's the thing with Vizio. Their models, and even the sizes within the same model can vary quite a bit.

I just noticed that! What the hell?! It's the same tv just in a different size, how could the input lag numbers be so different?
 
The fact that some people can enjoy the remote play experience at 240ms of lag means nothing to me. As I was just saying, this isn't about being able to play the game. Lots of people will tell you that new Toshiba TV they bought looks AMAZING. That doesn't make it so. A game may be playable with 240ms of lag, but it's certainly not going to play like the game makers intended. It's going to be a compromised experience.
I agree.
I suspect those numbers are from the CRT monitor comparisons with a high speed camera.
For certain, because leo bodnar has been said to not be that accurate with modern plasmas due to subfield and incomplete frames being drawn shenanigans.
While they may have designed things to be playable with some input lag, things always feel better with less. It will be easier to line up shots, and easier to make that jump, etc.
Of course, but that also means games might be easier than intended.

Not that I care. :)

I could easily feel the difference between the 43ms my VT60 lagged and the 18ms the W850A I returned lagged. There was no placebo effect, mouse response on the Windows desktop felt much better. Of course now I'm back on this X900A with around 41ms lag. I have paid a high price indeed for 4K.
I think I notice ~20 ms increments a little, I surely don't under 16 ms. Something like 10 ms is too feeble of a difference for me, although perhaps it can make a difference if the game lags a lot to start with and that difference keeps it from hitting a certain threshold.

But it's pretty hard to tell, because I know beforehand how much a TV lags. Anyway, it's not major, after a while and providing it's not over the moon I won't care (much).
I'm not buying the snake oil the input lag deniers are selling. The lag difference is trivially easy to feel if you connect a gaming PC to your TV and navigate the Windows desktop. If you don't play PC games on your TV like I do, connect your ST60 or any other laggy TV to your laptop if you don't believe me, and just open a web browser window and minimize and maximize it. You can easily see the TV lagging behind the laptop's own display from this simple test.
Side by side? obviously so, that makes it more evident. Otherwise you're not that prone to notice unless you know the game very, very well, and it's a timing based affair. something like a fast fighting game. I suspect current gen "fast reflex" fighter itinerations all were slowed down due to input lag.

Anyway, I see it as a a compromise, I mostly use plasmas as gaming screens because of a balance, I feel picture quality is pretty darn good while they're still pretty fast responding for gaming (depends on the model, obviously... but my current gaming plasma lags exactly 16.7 ms), same can't be said for a lot of LCD's out there in regards to picture quality, which I'm crazy anal about (uniformity, specially).

If I was rich I would have bitten the bullet and bought a Sony W900A, but I know for a fact that a W705B doesn't compare to the PQ I have now and between Sony W900A and a 42GT60 I would have preferred the later if I could only have one. Sadly I had no money to make that jump back when they were still in stock. :)
 
^ EH5000 is not a 2014 model, it's a 2012 one. (it's a common error, due to the H being the letter used in 2014 models but it's actually a E/2012 model)

Problem with 5 series in 2012 and 2013 was panel lottery (I don't know regarding 2014 models yet). If the panel is Samsung it's fine, if it's AUO or CMO or Sharp it might not be (specially Sharp), it has seemed the problem lies in the price Samsung pays for the outsourced panels it's so low that they'll take whatever's available, so if some supplier sold it's premium panels for a better price they're sure as hell not gonna get their mitts on them, only if yields are so great every stock is A or B stock.

Seems like Sharp panels, when not sucking can be better than Samsungs (some blokes swear by them) so it's a yield and price paid problem. AUO and CMO have a little extra ghosting time going on at all times, but it usually doesn't outright suck like some sharp panels do.


Worst case scenario:

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzW8SkjgXWk

(and no, first comment speaking about modes on the TV is utterly wrong, disastrously bad panels do *happen* on that series)
 
^ EH5000 is not a 2014 model, it's a 2012 one. (it's a common error, due to the H being the letter used in 2014 models but it's actually a E/2012 model)

Problem with 5 series in 2012 and 2013 was panel lottery (I don't know regarding 2014 models yet). If the panel is Samsung it's fine, if it's AUO or CMO or Sharp it might not be (specially Sharp), it has seemed the problem lies in the price Samsung pays for the outsourced panels it's so low that they'll take whatever's available, so if some supplier sold it's premium panels for a better price they're sure as hell not gonna get their mitts on them, only if yields are so great every stock is A or B stock.

Seems like Sharp panels, when not sucking can be better than Samsungs (some blokes swear by them) so it's a yield and price paid problem. AUO and CMO have a little extra ghosting time going on at all times, but it usually doesn't outright suck like some sharp panels do.


Worst case scenario:

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzW8SkjgXWk

(and no, first comment speaking about modes on the TV is utterly wrong, disastrously bad panels do *happen* on that series)

Yeah, I wasn't going to come down hard on Samsung LCDs, but this is my biggest gripe with them. You just don't know what you're getting with them. With Sony you always know what you're getting.
 
w600b or w800b? I know the w800b is better in every way but then again this is a TV for my room and I am not sure if it's worth the +$300 price difference. What do you guys think?

Primary use is gaming.
 
w600b or w800b? I know the w800b is better in every way but then again this is a TV for my room and I am not sure if it's worth the +$300 price difference. What do you guys think?

Primary use is gaming.

RTINGS review of the 600B is pretty glowing of it if you want to play games and don't need 3D support.

Plasma is nice too, but you're clearly looking for a discount and the Plasma market probably can't help you there.
 
Just installed the 55" W790B. Wow. It's thinner than any TV or Computer Monitor I've ever owned. I'm pretty sure that's the thinnest bezel I've ever seen, too.

On the downside 1080p is revealing all sorts of motion junk that my 720p Plasma used to hide. Cable TV looks a bit rough...

How the fuck do I enable game mode on the sony 600B?

RTINGS Calibration Settings
Press the OPTIONS button on the remote, then select the first option (scene select) and choose Game Mode from there. I wouldn't sweat using the same backlight mode they use unless you want to precisely match black levels, but just switching to game mode is good enough for many.
 
Just installed the 55" W790B. Wow. It's thinner than any TV or Computer Monitor I've ever owned. I'm pretty sure that's the thinnest bezel I've ever seen, too.

On the downside 1080p is revealing all sorts of motion junk that my 720p Plasma used to hide. Cable TV looks a bit rough...



RTINGS Calibration Settings
Press the OPTIONS button on the remote, then select the first option (scene select) and choose Game Mode from there. I wouldn't sweat using the same backlight mode they use unless you want to precisely match black levels, but just switching to game mode is good enough for many.

Hey thanks! I finally figured out that it was the Scene Select option. I got this set to replace a Vizio (which I have not yet returned) and I have to say I much prefer the image quality on the 2014 Vizio M series. Input lag on the Sony is far better though.
 
Out with the old...

IMG_20140811_170704.jpg


In with the new...

IMG_20140811_193303.jpg


Loving this new Samsung UE32H5000, especially for £180 delivered.

(apolos for the fuzzy-ass phone pics)

One day I will post my pics.

Mascot, what happened with the Big Daddy statue?

Oh, and major props for the 60GB orig.
 
Hey thanks! I finally figured out that it was the Scene Select option. I got this set to replace a Vizio (which I have not yet returned) and I have to say I much prefer the image quality on the 2014 Vizio M series. Input lag on the Sony is far better though.

No problem. I didn't know either until I read the RTINGS review. The initial Bravia experience, while slick, makes virtually no sense. Maybe one day they will replace the football button with a game mode button...

I think the visual quality on the W790 (Canadian W800, basically) is great. But since I run in game mode most of the processing stuff is turned off. About the only disappointment is that impulse mode (kinda like lightboost, ultra-fast strobe to ensure great motion resolution) destroys the brightness. Enough so that there's basically no way I would use it except in a pitch black room.
 
One day I will post my pics.

Mascot, what happened with the Big Daddy statue?

Oh, and major props for the 60GB orig.

You mean this chap, Mr Bubbles?


I dunno - I'm always misplacing him. He's around here somewhere...

No, unfortunately a wealthy collector of Oxmox/Muckle game/movie statues bought him off me a few years ago. I turned a fat profit but still kinda miss the big old lug.
 
Lightning took out my mother in laws TV, she's after a new one, within the £500-£800 range. I'm thinking the Sony KDL46W905, what do you guys think?
 
Hi guys am planning to buy this tv Samsung - 40" Class (40" Diag.) - LED - 1080p - 120Hz - Smart - HDTV http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-40-class-40-diag--led-1080p-120hz-smart-hdtv/4182001.p?id=1219096897375&skuId=4182001&productCategoryId=abcat0101001
I got my source from this website review https://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/samsung/h6350

I am planning to price check with amazon for 632 currently, What you guys think and should i buy GEEK SQUAD PROTECTION!! Please help and thats around my size and budget . Thank you for your help!
 
Hi, I have a question about game mode on samsung LED TVs.
Should I enable it or not?
My model is the UE40ES5500.
Game mode is said to reduce input lag at the expense of IQ.
I played without it for 2 years and now that I started messing with it I don't know what to do anymore.

Does GAF enable game mode on Samsung LED TVs?
 
Hi, I have a question about game mode on samsung LED TVs.
Should I enable it or not?
My model is the UE40ES5500.
Game mode is said to reduce input lag at the expense of IQ.
I played without it for 2 years and now that I started messing with it I don't know what to do anymore.

Does GAF enable game mode on Samsung LED TVs?

Yes, or rename the input to "PC". Last trick is usually better.
 
The Windows desktop at 4K resolution...

I have it set to 200% scale because otherwise the Windows UI is microscopic. Note the comical scaling of the title bar and other UI elements on top. Windows is so, so bad at handling HDPI displays and it's something they really need to fix someday since they are planning on using the same Windows across PCs, tablets, and phones in the near future.

4k_desktop.jpg
 
The Windows desktop at 4K resolution...

I have it set to 200% scale because otherwise the Windows UI is microscopic. Note the comical scaling of the title bar and other UI elements on top. Windows is so, so bad at handling HDPI displays and it's something they really need to fix someday since they are planning on using the same Windows across PCs, tablets, and phones in the near future.

You realize that Chrome advertise itself as HiDPI capable to Windows, so Windows won't do any automatic scaling of it? However Chrome isn't very HiDPI capable.
 
Well , as much as I bought Bravia for the low input lag, it seems the picture processing is what's sold my wife on it...and I kind of agree. Not for games, of course, but everything short of the ridiculous 240hz mode do seem to make for a more appealing picture. Cartoons look miles better at a glance and so do any shows with lots of matte backgrounds.

That the football button is not reprogrammable is still nonsense, though.

Sadly my rep somehow send the VESA adapter to Ontario so still waiting on doing the wall mount. Pics after that, most likely.
 
My Sony W800b (50 inch led TV) finally arrived and I'm loving it so far. But I was wondering if anyone one knew better optimal settings to use than what's out of the box? I own a ps4 and wii u.
 
My Sony W800b (50 inch led TV) finally arrived and I'm loving it so far. But I was wondering if anyone one knew better optimal settings to use than what's out of the box? I own a ps4 and wii u.

Well I think the reason for getting the current sonys is for using the "gaming mode" setting that has the lowest input lag for gaming.

By the by, does anyone else have opinions on the 50w800b compared to other possibilities? Been looking at the w950b as well.
 
Well I think the reason for getting the current sonys is for using the "gaming mode" setting that has the lowest input lag for gaming.

By the by, does anyone else have opinions on the 50w800b compared to other possibilities? Been looking at the w950b as well.

RTINGS.com guys, they have recommended settings for the W800B, reviews and comparison systems, etc.

On a purely aesthetic note I don't like the Triluminos panels this year because Sony has basically built their TVs into a wedge shape. If I was playing it on furniture that would be fine, but on a wall mount it would be pretty awkward.
 
Hey thanks! I finally figured out that it was the Scene Select option. I got this set to replace a Vizio (which I have not yet returned) and I have to say I much prefer the image quality on the 2014 Vizio M series. Input lag on the Sony is far better though.

That is surprising to hear you say that. Have you used rtings.com settings for the 800b?

Hi guys am planning to buy this tv Samsung - 40" Class (40" Diag.) - LED - 1080p - 120Hz - Smart - HDTV http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-40-class-40-diag--led-1080p-120hz-smart-hdtv/4182001.p?id=1219096897375&skuId=4182001&productCategoryId=abcat0101001
I got my source from this website review https://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/samsung/h6350

I am planning to price check with amazon for 632 currently, What you guys think and should i buy GEEK SQUAD PROTECTION!! Please help and thats around my size and budget . Thank you for your help!

The input lag on that tv is kinda high.

Well I think the reason for getting the current sonys is for using the "gaming mode" setting that has the lowest input lag for gaming.

By the by, does anyone else have opinions on the 50w800b compared to other possibilities? Been looking at the w950b as well.

I had both in my home. Would choose the 800b without hesitation.
 
Interesting. How do you feel about the various Samsung models? They seem to have higher input lag but less motion blur. Also was there any noticeable back light bleed on the Sonys you had?

I think Samsung is capable of making very nice TVs. The problem is that they source their LCD panels from various manufacturers. So you and I could buy what we believe is the exact same tv, and mine might have a slightly better picture than yours, because mine has a Samsung panel while yours has a Sharp panel. Not only that, but they always have higher input lag than the Sony's. At that point why bother? Some of their TVs might have slightly less motion blur, but this is the kind of thing you'd have a very hard time noticing. It would also depend on the panel you get.

Sony's doesn't play the panel lottery.

Regarding light bleed. The 55 inch models have a very high frequency of noteworthy light bleed. The 50 inch models may have a little, mine has almost none at all, and smaller models should have none.
 
I think Samsung is capable of making very nice TVs. The problem is that they source their LCD panels from various manufacturers. So you and I could buy what we believe is the exact same tv, and mine might have a slightly better picture than yours, because mine has a Samsung panel while yours has a Sharp panel. Not only that, but they always have higher input lag than the Sony's. At that point why bother? Some of their TVs might have slightly less motion blur, but this is the kind of thing you'd have a very hard time noticing. It would also depend on the panel you get.

Sony's doesn't play the panel lottery.

Regarding light bleed. The 55 inch models have a very high frequency of noteworthy light bleed. The 50 inch models may have a little, mine has almost none at all, and smaller models should have none.

Thanks for all the info. Even though I've gone through a bunch of review sites and read tons of stuff it is always good to get to talk to people that actually owned the sets and used them for the same purpose I would be getting one for.

I was already going to go with the 50" if I went with the w800b, so that is good to hear, but I hate light bleed so much that I may have to consider going down to another set just to avoid it completely. Another thing that was worrying me about the 50w800b was that amazon isn't selling any except for a bunch of them that I assume were returned through their "amazon warehouse deals" thing as used. Blarg, I hate the indecision of buying new electronics.
 
Anyone know if/where it's still possible to get the 55" W905 or am I going to have to settle for the W829?

UK models and locations obviously. Thanks!
 
I want to go with a W800b but the smallest size it comes in is 50 inches which seems to be too much for a viewing distance of 5-7 feet. What do you guys think?
 
looking at the same model but for a distance of 7.5....

It's the only TV that seems to check all the boxes that I want in a TV.

-Good picture quality
-Low input lag
-3D
-3 HDMI ports

My only hang up is a 50 inch TV might be too big considering I am going to mount it on the wall of my room. I don't want it to look comically big.
 
It's the only TV that seems to check all the boxes that I want in a TV.

-Good picture quality
-Low input lag
-3D
-3 HDMI ports

My only hang up is a 50 inch TV might be too big considering I am going to mount it on the wall of my room. I don't want it to look comically big.

A worse thing is getting use to a tv that big sitting close to it. Then it becomes hard watching other tvs.
 
Could someone please give me an opinion for Sony KDL-50W656? I would be using it with PS4. I've read some reviews and it seems like a good set and it's currently $200 down in my country so I was thinking of picking up one.

The thing I'm interested in the most is the clouding (screen uniformity) and input lag. I've had very negative experience with clouding on Philips TV few years back (I ended up replacing it because of excessive clouding in the corners - got my money back and bought LG set instead). Most reviews said it was fine for an Edge LED TV, but if someone has personal experience with this set, I'd appreciate your input.
 
Finally got the ok to upgrade our old Sony EX 40" TV to a new one.
I'm currently looking at a Samsung 55" 6900 UHD tv.
Anyone tried that?
It's pretty cheap right now, more so than any of their other recent 55" TVs.

Edit: the reason that I've chosen Samsung is the built in support for the streaming apps we use. Airplay is pretty spotty with HBO Go and the Viaplay app for PS4 is unreliable at best.
 
I think my 55" did pretty well in the panel/lighting front. A bit of dimness at the very botttom but no bleeds. I dunno, maybe it helped that the delivery service thought it was a good idea to deliver the set upside down...-_-;;;

It's the only TV that seems to check all the boxes that I want in a TV.

-Good picture quality
-Low input lag
-3D
-3 HDMI ports

My only hang up is a 50 inch TV might be too big considering I am going to mount it on the wall of my room. I don't want it to look comically big.

The W800B has 3 rear HDMI and one side HDMI, unless you're talking European and there's some weird difference I'm not aware of.

I think 50" is probably fine for that viewing distance. Less so at 5' but as has been said, your eyes tend to adjust. I thought my 55" was too big and now it seems just right (admittedly more eyes-screen room in my case, though). You'll also gain some extra viewing distance if you go for a slim wall mount. The W800B is crazy thin and with a slim mount it will basically stick to the wall like a painting. Or you could mount it higher with a tilt mount to point it down and give you a bit more diagonal distance.
 
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