Cool. Thanks for sharing. Great TV, I am considering one now after seeing your input lag report.
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
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Cool. Thanks for sharing. Great TV, I am considering one now after seeing your input lag report.
ACH1LL3US
Member
Chance Hale
Member
Are there going to be any compromises with the 4K LG OLED TVs coming out this fall? If I'm going to drop 10K then I don't want there to be any at all, lol. Would use such a TV for at least a decade though.
Good choice, Panasonic's are getting harder and harder to find.
Unknown Soldier
Member
OLED is such a new technology that you can't buy it and expect it last a decade. The aging of the phosphors is still such a huge unknown with that technology, and they're expecting you to spend $7,000 to beta-test it for them. LG has implemented some really aggressive ABL on their OLEDs right now, possibly to slow phosphor aging and prevent burn-in. Unlike plasmas, there is NO NEED for any ABL on an OLED in terms of power draw and meeting the energy consumption standards. There's something LG isn't telling us about these TVs. If you're ok with this, then get an OLED now. As for me, I look at this bizarre, seemingly unnecessary ABL and I'm pretty much like "How about no."
I'm fully expecting to keep my 65X900A for about 4-5 years, and then move to OLED after that timeframe. Hey, if Samsung can get back in the market with their RGB OLEDs in 3 years and demonstrate the longevity of their phosphors, I'm all in. If not, well, I got this TV on clearance, I'm good for awhile.
OK guys! Went to Best Buy to test the new LG Oled 55EC9300, brought my Leo Bodnar input lag tester, in normal mode it got 119ms.
I then took the tv out of store mode and into home mode, labeled HDMI input to PC and used standard picture mode and got 40.9ms.
Then also changed the picture mode from standard to Game mode and got the below 29.6ms!!!!!!
image by CoolHandsM3, on Flickr!!!
Guys, my Elite Kuro gets 41.2ms in PC mode, best it can do, this LG oled just destroyed my KuroBlacks are infinitely better on the Oled and the input lag is much less.
Must have gaming tv of the year IMHO.
So to recap, to get best input lag of 29.6ms on the new LG OLE 55EC9300 is to label HDMI input PC then change picture mode to game.
So I bought the tv, best gaming tv I have ever used, small recap of tvs/ monitors I have/had to compare where I am coming from:
Pioneer Elite Pro1150 Kuro
Pioneer Elite Pro110 Kuro
Pioneer Elite Pr0111 Kuro
Pioneer Elite Pro101 Kuro ISF calibrated by D-Nice
Samsung 55F7100 ISF calibrated by D-Nice
Samsung 65H8000 ISF calibrated by D-Nice ( will be selling on ebay)
Sony 52HX909
Sony 34XBR910 (crt)
Sony 24GDMFW900 ( crt)
LG 15EL9000 ( Oled )
This tv is better then all of the above... any questions fire away.
Now to get D-Nice to ISF this OLED ;O
Questions:
Does labeling the input 'PC' disable all the image adjustments like it does on Samsungs?
Is this TV curved or flat? I fucking hate curves. I hate them.
Will this TV be available in a higher panel size?
Have you noticed the ABL on this TV, and how bright is white allowed to get if you show a 100% while screen slide on it?
What is the warranty on this TV, and what does it cover?
Logical Disconnect
Member
I am a plasma guy. I had a few F8500s that I had to return for various reasons, buzzing and horizontal banding being the main issues. I've also had Panasonic plasmas in the past and, again, they've all had uniformity issues. So it's fair to say I'm pretty picky about my TVs!
My main bugbear is the dirty-screen effect and lack of white uniformity. I don't care that much about lack of grey screen uniformity unless it's visible in content, whether as DSE / banding or discolouration.
I do sit only a few feet away. It wasn't an issue with my F8500 (minimal dithering, unlike the Panasonics), but I am worried about the pixel density sitting close to the OLED if this hasn't changed from the 9800.
I just bought a Sony HW55ES projector because of all my TV issues, but I'm moving to a new apartment and it will be a pain to set up (blacking out windows etc), so I'm wondering if I try to return it and wait for the OLED to come out in Aus. Obviously you lose a lot in size but the convenience might be worthwhile. I don't know! I just don't want to return a great projector and end up with something with the same problems I've had with plasmas.
Maybe I should stick with the projector and try to make it work until 4K OLEDs in a bigger size are a reasonable price!
WheelHoss1
Member
Also, surprisingly, Wrath of the Titans, Transformers 3, and 300: Rise of an Empire are must-watches, too. Flawless implementation of 3D start to finish.
OK guys! Went to Best Buy to test the new LG Oled 55EC9300, brought my Leo Bodnar input lag tester, in normal mode it got 119ms.
I then took the tv out of store mode and into home mode, labeled HDMI input to PC and used standard picture mode and got 40.9ms.
Then also changed the picture mode from standard to Game mode and got the below 29.6ms!!!!!!
Guys, my Elite Kuro gets 41.2ms in PC mode, best it can do, this LG oled just destroyed my Kuro
Must have gaming tv of the year IMHO.
So to recap, to get best input lag of 29.6ms on the new LG OLE 55EC9300 is to label HDMI input PC then change picture mode to game.
So I bought the tv, best gaming tv I have ever used, small recap of tvs/ monitors I have/had to compare where I am coming from:
Pioneer Elite Pro1150 Kuro
Pioneer Elite Pro110 Kuro
Pioneer Elite Pr0111 Kuro
Pioneer Elite Pro101 Kuro ISF calibrated by D-Nice
Samsung 55F7100 ISF calibrated by D-Nice
Samsung 65H8000 ISF calibrated by D-Nice ( will be selling on ebay)
Sony 52HX909
Sony 34XBR910 (crt)
Sony 24GDMFW900 ( crt)
LG 15EL9000 ( Oled )
This tv is better then all of the above... any questions fire away.
Now to get D-Nice to ISF this OLED ;O
Congrats and nice TV resume!
Did you figure out how to change the picture settings while it was running the demo loop? I'd really like to know...
ACH1LL3US
Member
Thanks!!
The demo loop is coming from a poorly compressed vidoe loop on usb, you have to unplug the usb and then you can change settings and remove it from store mode.
ACH1LL3US
Member
Hi Logical Disconnect!
Reading your posts reminds me of... Me lol!
I am VERY sensitive to uniformity issues and dse on tvs, before Elite and kuro members were willing to acknowledge dse I made a thread back in 07 on avsforum and they all came after me with pitch forks saying I was nuts that a $5k Pioneer could not have dse and guess what? All these years later its common knowledge that some had it. All my pioneers have dse except the 768p kuro elite.
The sony hx909... Horrible vertical banding, made playing gt5 on it unbearable, sharp panel of course.
The oled is a different beast... All pixels like plasma are emmisive (driven) unlike lcd/led and I have not seen any dse on the oled or banding. Just some uniformity on grey screen and to be fair its only in the 10% and 5% ire of grey. Lcd/led uniformity can not compare and even moreso if you go off angle with those.
In all honesty, with everything I have had before and now, Oled is an absolute game changer. Daytime blacks look jet black, at nite its jet black.
I thought about getting the sony hw55es bc I was sick of all these issues woth tvs (dse, uniformity and banding) and then this oled came on the scene from nowhere and blew me away...
I do not think you will be disappointed one bit. If you sat near the f8500 with no issues you wont have issues with the oled. Btw they change the pixel structure of the ec9300, avsforum thread has more on that
Logical Disconnect
Member
Thanks, sounds like we are quite similar! I've decided to stick with the projector for now. I guess it's a trade-off between the contrast, brightness and convenience of the OLED versus the screen size and 'cinema experience' of the projector. For me the projector plus 120" screen plus some blackout material cost about as much as the EC9300 is likely to cost in Aus (although I haven't seen pricing yet). And I think the big screen seals it for me despite the difficulty of setting it all up. I think I'll wait for the bigger-screen 4K OLEDs to come out and drop to a reasonable price before I jump in. Glad to read you're enjoying yours though!
eso76
Member
yeah, it went up in price everywhere around here.
The best deal was almost 400 more expensive than the 51F8500 i bought.
Besides, some actually prefer the Samsung as far as PQ goes (less dithering, brighter) and it is a whole inch larger ! the largest tv i can fit in my shelf...back when i designed my living room i somehow thought 120cm would be enough...
Man, this is super exciting to hear. I haven't had the chance to game on one yet but I've been counting on OLED to be the next step from plasma. Glad to hear it's living up to that potential.
I'll probably wait a bit more before jumping on one myself but I'm pretty excited by the progress being made.
Do you lose anything by using PC mode? The last gen Kuro, for instance, loses its deeper black levels when PC mode is engaged so I never use PC mode myself. It seems to be common on a lot of TVs that PC mode ultimately limits what can be achieved image quality wise.
ACH1LL3US
Member
Hey Dark! Yea your going to love the oled for gaming!! It has made my Elites look ancient and up to this point nothing imho really has surpassed them in all regards.
Pc mode does not lose anything, blacks are still completely off even in pitch black room !! The picture just looks like it is floating, it actually takes time to get used to bc your not used to that :0 pc mode also gives you 4:4:4 chroma which games benefit from.
I have not been excited for a tv since I got the Elite Kuro when it first came out and this oled is soo much more of a difference then going to the Kuro.
Also keep in mind, your 5020 kuro in game mode or pure mode ( you did the elite board upgrade if my memory serves right) will still be over 60ms input lag, the lowest lag I could get on those 1080p kuro with my leo bodnar tester was 55ms and that was putting it in pc mode and your right blacks and max white level were effected. I have been using the 768p kuro (8g) in pc mode bc it has the least input lag of all the kuro's I have have/had.
Going from 60ms input lag plus on your 5020 to 29.6ms on the oled will be noticable.
flipswitch
Member
Apologies if you have answered this, but did you consider samsung OLED before buying the LG model?
ACH1LL3US
Member
Two issues with the samsung oled, one off angle viewing becomes red tinted just like their phones, the lg oled I can look at any angle and it doesnt change!
The other issue for the samsung is image retention and burn in, I have seen many of their galaxy s phones and even the s5 with burnin/ image retention at the best buy kiosks, I know those are not normal use scenarios but would scare many to pay $7k plus for their oled that could potentially do that.
Price is also a major factor and that this lg oled has just under 30ms of input lag, that ultimately clinched it for me.
flipswitch
Member
Oh ok, looks like you made the right choice. I'm just reading up on the LG OLED. Amazing set you have there. Enjoy
what if sony figures out the input lag problem with 4k in two years? I like that tv but 40 ms
Halo comes out soon.
eso76
Member
Just a question for F8500 owners.
I know about the "rename input to PC" trick to significantly reduce lag, but does PQ suffer for movies (and games) ?
I will have BD player, Cable/Sat, Consoles all connected to the same HDMI input, and i wouldn't want to have to rename and change settings each time the content changes.
Alternatively i could:
A) Use both outputs of my receiver and output to 2 different HDMI ports on the TV (movies / games). Use Marantz's output 1 for in HDMI1 MOVIES for cinema, and Output 2 to HDMI2 PC for games
B) Buy a HDMI splitter: Thus doubling Marantz's output to 2 TV inputs and just switch from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2 when needed.
And does GAF know of any splitter / doubler that wouldn't mess with consoles/cable etc ?
Of course, i might find that i don't even mind lag that much (no idea how my current tv fares, it's an old sony KDF50A10 RPTV, might be even higher). Not into fast MP shooters anyway.
Geometry wars 3 though...
I know about the "rename input to PC" trick to significantly reduce lag, but does PQ suffer for movies (and games) ?
I will have BD player, Cable/Sat, Consoles all connected to the same HDMI input, and i wouldn't want to have to rename and change settings each time the content changes.
Alternatively i could:
A) Use both outputs of my receiver and output to 2 different HDMI ports on the TV (movies / games). Use Marantz's output 1 for in HDMI1 MOVIES for cinema, and Output 2 to HDMI2 PC for games
B) Buy a HDMI splitter: Thus doubling Marantz's output to 2 TV inputs and just switch from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2 when needed.
And does GAF know of any splitter / doubler that wouldn't mess with consoles/cable etc ?
Of course, i might find that i don't even mind lag that much (no idea how my current tv fares, it's an old sony KDF50A10 RPTV, might be even higher). Not into fast MP shooters anyway.
Geometry wars 3 though...
I need some help here. I'm looking to get a new tv for my bedroom in the 40-48" range, but I can't decide. It'll be used 70% streaming media/blu ray and 30% ps360. Cost isn't an issue, but I want to keep it down if possible.
I was originally going to replace my 50" panny ST30 and move it to the bedroom, but I'm going to wait till next year and hope OLED has more options. My biggest issue with deciding on a "budget" tv for my room is the picture quality and finding something that won't make me cringe with terrible contrast ratios and exaggerated colors.
So, can anyone recommend some options?
I was originally going to replace my 50" panny ST30 and move it to the bedroom, but I'm going to wait till next year and hope OLED has more options. My biggest issue with deciding on a "budget" tv for my room is the picture quality and finding something that won't make me cringe with terrible contrast ratios and exaggerated colors.
So, can anyone recommend some options?
BruiserBear
Banned
Hi Logical Disconnect!
Reading your posts reminds me of... Me lol!
I am VERY sensitive to uniformity issues and dse on tvs, before Elite and kuro members were willing to acknowledge dse I made a thread back in 07 on avsforum and they all came after me with pitch forks saying I was nuts that a $5k Pioneer could not have dse and guess what? All these years later its common knowledge that some had it. All my pioneers have dse except the 768p kuro elite.
The sony hx909... Horrible vertical banding, made playing gt5 on it unbearable, sharp panel of course.
The oled is a different beast... All pixels like plasma are emmisive (driven) unlike lcd/led and I have not seen any dse on the oled or banding. Just some uniformity on grey screen and to be fair its only in the 10% and 5% ire of grey. Lcd/led uniformity can not compare and even moreso if you go off angle with those.
In all honesty, with everything I have had before and now, Oled is an absolute game changer. Daytime blacks look jet black, at nite its jet black.
I thought about getting the sony hw55es bc I was sick of all these issues woth tvs (dse, uniformity and banding) and then this oled came on the scene from nowhere and blew me away...
I do not think you will be disappointed one bit. If you sat near the f8500 with no issues you wont have issues with the oled. Btw they change the pixel structure of the ec9300, avsforum thread has more on that
This is really exciting to read. I'm just like you guys. I can't stand DSE and uniformity issues. I'm stuck with a Panasonic LED from a few years ago that is only 42 inches, but it's got no DSE at all, and the input lag is 30ms. So it's the best I've found for now.
OLED might be the thing I've been waiting for. The only thing that concerns me is the possibility of burn in. I think I'm gonna see what next year's CES brings, in terms of new models and prices, and by then we'll have some real world reports of burn in on these LG models.
Can't wait to hear more hands on impressions from you Vette.
DarthPrince
Member
Ugh. I had ordered a Sony KDL-55W802A last week. I just got a call from the retailer saying they're out of stock and they've cancelled the order =(
I was really looking forward to that low input lag. I give up on life.
I was really looking forward to that low input lag. I give up on life.
BruiserBear
Banned
I've got some good news for you. This year's 800b is a better TV than the 802a.
theSlacker
Member
I've seen multiple claims that the 800b is a better tv then the 950b.
BruiserBear
Banned
The tv industry is full of a LOT of marketing bullshit. The 800b uses a much better LCD panel than the 900 models. Doesn't matter what Sony says. I've seen them with my own eyes in my own house. Not to mention several reviews saying the same thing.
theSlacker
Member
lol, just did a thread search to make sure it was you that told me that info before telling him to ask you about it, and you responded as soon as I wrote my post.
Interesting. I've looked at the 700b (scaled down 800b right?) and 800b vs 950b for hours. I have to give it to the 950b, the triluminos colors and extended dynamic range gives it a better picture, but both still do have edge lit failings. And 23ms vs 17ms. Although the 950b wedge design doesn't look great mounted if the sides are visible in the room.
Is the W950 the equivalent to the W955? If so, according to HDTVtest and other sites, forum posts etc, the W905 (older model) appears to be a much better TV overall.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl55w955b-201403103661.htm
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl46w905a-201311263450.htm
theSlacker
Member
It depends on where you are, in relation to the 700b to 800b question. In Europe the 700b is it's own model (that actually has even lower input lag, like 13ms I think), while it appears in the states it is a Best Buy exclusive that is just a scaled down 800b. As for the difference in input lag, both 23 and 17 ms are between 1 and 2 frames of lag if you are running at 60 fps, iirc.
I can't comment on picture quality beyond what I have been told though.
I see. I'd take either one! 700b is cool in its own way because it has no 3D, is light, and is power efficient. 950B has all the bells and whistles and has an amazing input lag, but that wedge design..
Crazymoogle
Member
As a new owner of the 790b (basically a Canadian 800b with a weird Motionflow mode), it's awesome. No wedge either.
theSlacker
Member
Well another thing about the Best Buy exclusive 700b is that you can get the 800b for less then it from Amazon. 700b is $899 on Bestbuy (800b is $999 there) while the 800b is $898 on Amazon. All referring to the 50" models.
Really trying hard to decide if I want to get the 800B now, or wait till next year to see whats what. Want something to last me a while till I think oled is safe.
WheelHoss1
Member
Just wanna say 4K is no joke. Been watching Breaking Bad and it's like seeing it for the first time. House of Cards is even better
Haint
Member
I could be wrong as I'm not in the market one and not actively following the scene, but from what I gather the 950B uses an IPS panel with really shitty black levels while the 800B uses a VA panel with much better black levels---and by better I mean up to 4-5x better. Assuming a 50fL white peak on both, you would potentially be looking at a 1000:1 native ANSI contrast ratio on the 950B Vs. over 4000:1 on the 800B based on review measurements. This would be a night and day difference in a dark environment.
Played around with the LG OLED today
Fffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Shit is DARKER THAN BLACK. omg.
I've seen a few complaints about motion and jutter, but when in motion user mode adjusted on cinema or isf setting, it looks terrific. Saw a few movies, and various clips and played around with the settings.
There's no comparison between OLED and LCD/LED. It's god damn night and day.
I think Im going to pull the trigger on it. $3500 is more than reasonable for this quality at a 55". I'd like to wait for 65" and 4K for better pixel density, but I think another year to year and a half should bring a more affordable price (sub $8000 hopefully) for that...
Fffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Shit is DARKER THAN BLACK. omg.
I've seen a few complaints about motion and jutter, but when in motion user mode adjusted on cinema or isf setting, it looks terrific. Saw a few movies, and various clips and played around with the settings.
There's no comparison between OLED and LCD/LED. It's god damn night and day.
I think Im going to pull the trigger on it. $3500 is more than reasonable for this quality at a 55". I'd like to wait for 65" and 4K for better pixel density, but I think another year to year and a half should bring a more affordable price (sub $8000 hopefully) for that...
Ah, yes that would. I am not a fan of IPS panels. I did not know Sony used them on some models. It's sorta hard to see black levels under store florescent lights.
The differences are 1080p, 4k, triluminos colors, extended dynamic range, extended dynamic range pro.
4k models have 40ms input lag, 1080p ones are in the 17-25ms range. I'd go with a 1080p one if gaming is a large use.
I could have sworn AVS forum sponser Cleveland Plasma is selling the 9300 for $3,000.
Id rather pay the $500 extra to be able to get teh TV to my home on my own terms rather than order a TV online.
An AVS forum member is reporting that a Best Buy associate told him Panasonic will debut OLED at Best Buy in 2015. A Panasonic representative apparently informed the associate about this information, who in turn informed the forum member. This is phenomenonal news for those of us obsessed with picture quality, especially black level.
:O
Eagerly awaiting Panny's efforts on the OLED front if true, but get the feeling they're going to be exorbitantly priced.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Beware of the classmate telling you his uncle works for Nintendo.
crashnburn
Member
Most on avsforum seem to believe the 700b is basically the 800b without 3d and a silver bezel. The 55" is $300 difference generally speaking.
I actually am taking delivery of a 55" 700b this weekend. Got 10% off with movers coupon and $100+ back in reward points, so it was basically $800 prior to tax. I'm upgrading from a 5 year old 42" Insignia TV. Can't wait. I'll post impressions sometime next week.