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[Vesper73]

Yesterday I went out and bought BenQ W1070 after reading so many positive impressions about it. I'm new to projectors so I didn't know what to expect.

Holy. Shit. This thing can project a HUGE screen! I've never seen anything like it before, so its size pretty much blew my mind.

I'm probably never going back. This thing costed me half of what my 60" plasma did, and it can go three times bigger. Sure, the contrast isn't as nice, and I'd have to watch/play with no lights on, but the size is so worth it.

That's a wise decision, especially if you are an 'immersion' minded person such as myself!

I've had my W1070 for almost a year now, and still can't believe the image that it can put out, (running it on a custom 150" screen).

You aren't going to regret your decision! Enjoy!

 

[MrJames]

Are there rumours that they are licensing LGs panels for use?

Im really struggling to decide whether or not to buy the 55EC9300 lol

If there is a Sony or Panny next year with their own video processing and motion enhancement, I would feel dumb for getting the LG

There has been some speculation that both were in talks to buy LG 4K OLED panels. Then at IFA, Panasonic showed off a prototype 65" curved 4K OLED. They are officially "exploring possibilities" so I'm guessing we'll find out more at CES.

 

[slabrock]

Finally bought my dream TV. Sony 4K XBR55X850B. It has HDMI 2.0, HVEC/H.265 codecs, 3d, smart, built in backflip camera, very low input lag, etc etc. So good. I'm in love.

Watching Planet Earth blurays about deep ocean and the blacks are BLACK. Upscaling is outstanding. Also have tried PS3 Uncharted 3. My girlfriend and friends are blown away. I can't believe I'm 28 and finally I own an XBR.

Nice, that's the TV I have been thinking about picking up.

 

[hoverboarder]

Nice, that's the TV I have been thinking about picking up.

It is just too amazing. I've posted some of my experiences here. But if you have questions, let me know!

 

[simplythebest]

PS4/PS3 RGB Full Range (HDMI) setting when using a LG 39LB5600 Limited or full?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

PS4/PS3 RGB Full Range (HDMI) setting when using a LG 39LB5600 Limited or full?

Make sure the TV and source match. If TV is set to Limited, set PS4/PS3 to Limited. If TV is set to Full, set PS4/PS3 to Full.

If TV doesn't have a menu option to set Limited or Full, then it's always Limited from the source. No TV defaults to Full.

 

[Kadey]

What is the absolute best 32" tv out there? I need something for my guest room.

 

[simplythebest]

Make sure the TV and source match. If TV is set to Limited, set PS4/PS3 to Limited. If TV is set to Full, set PS4/PS3 to Full.

If TV doesn't have a menu option to set Limited or Full, then it's always Limited from the source. No TV defaults to Full.

Would I normally find that in the advanced picture settings of a tv's menu?

 

[hoverboarder]

What is the absolute best 32" tv out there? I need something for my guest room.

There's an M Series Vizio which is 1080p/120hz, which is rare for a 32" as most are 60hz.

 

[Fox1304]

I've had my W1070 for almost a year now, and still can't believe the image that it can put out, (running it on a custom 150" screen

Would you mind sharing a bit more about your custom screen ? How did you do it ? Any before/after pics ?

 

[Aske]

I understand that Samsung and LG have much better web features but if you're mostly using your PVR or game console then you really want a great TV first and Sony delivered. It remembers picture settings per-input so you can always have your PS4 on Game mode, your TV on whatever. There's 4 (!!) HDMI with any company's model in this spec range, which is a huge improvement from the old days.

That being said, most people just aren't that sensitive to input lag and will play 20ms vs. 40ms the same way. So if you feel like there's a great Samsung option out there it's probably a good deal too.

I'm wondering how sensitive I am to input lag. Never noticed it on my old Panasonic, but the TV is too old for me to look up lag numbers. My consoles do double duty as my main source for TV/movies as well as games. So if the lag on the W840b is low enough without turning on Game Mode, I can set up the picture for movies and not worry about switching it to play games. Or are the Game settings solid for watching Netflix/Blu-ray/DVDs?

I haven't seen the Samsung H7150 in person, but the 65" version boasts similar picture quality with better 3D and smart features for the same price as the Sony. That's the only other TV I'm considering right now.

I sit 6-8 feet away from my TV. I know I could get away with something much smaller, but I keep hearing bigger is always better. Would I miss the extra 5" if I went with the Samsung, or am I being crazy for even considering such a huge screen for that kind of space? I love how immersive and cinematic a massive screen would be, but are there are any downsides besides the potential for Screen Door Effect?

 

[Peltz]

I'm a happy Panasonic Plasma owner who suddenly finds himself in the market for a new set for my bedroom.

Sorry to jump into the thread so late, but what are people's thoughts on Displaylag.com? Are their measurements generally trustworthy?

 

[Crazymoogle]

I'm wondering how sensitive I am to input lag. Never noticed it on my old Panasonic, but the TV is too old for me to look up lag numbers.

Can't really say there's an easy way to test. I play through a lot of mid-to-poor lag scenarios at work, and at best you just feel like your shooting in a FPS is bad. But without a TLOU PS4 blind test even my own opinion isn't worth much on the subject.

Plasma input lag is great due to the nature of the tech (usually). So we're both spoiled and perhaps flexible due to the age of the set.

My consoles do double duty as my main source for TV/movies as well as games. So if the lag on the W840b is low enough without turning on Game Mode, I can set up the picture for movies and not worry about switching it to play games. Or are the Game settings solid for watching Netflix/Blu-ray/DVDs?

The Sony remote has a button ("Scene Select") that brings up an overlay menu with a list of 8 or so TV viewing modes. So you can set game mode on the fly. There's no input relabelling or anything. The other modes just mess with color balance, sharpness, and (sometimes) add motionflow (the "240hz" effect) so turning those on is really a matter of taste. Input lag spikes with the other modes but some games will play identically. I think you could leave it on Game for Netflix and such, no problem, but again, super easy to change (and the effect is instant).

The Sony also has a strobe effect you can apply. In theory, this gives you amazing motion resolution. In practice it drops the brightness so low you would need to play in a pitch black room, and even then the image would feel a bit dark.

I haven't seen the Samsung H7150 in person, but the 65" version boasts similar picture quality with better 3D and smart features for the same price as the Sony. That's the only other TV I'm considering right now.

I sit 6-8 feet away from my TV. I know I could get away with something much smaller, but I keep hearing bigger is always better. Would I miss the extra 5" if I went with the Samsung, or am I being crazy for even considering such a huge screen for that kind of space? I love how immersive and cinematic a massive screen would be, but are there are any downsides besides the potential for Screen Door Effect?

I sit 8ft away from a 55", and I'd say the first day I thought the set was too big. Now it's pretty clear I could go 65" no problem. Anything bigger probably wouldn't fit on my wall...[/quote]

RTINGS has a review of the H7150. Seems solid. But read through all of the comments as they do a Q&A style method there that will help your decision making. A few points to consider:

- Actual input lag (whether you perceive it or not) is around 40ms on the Samsung.
- PC Mode requires renaming the input. Not sure of the lag diff between PC and Game mode.
- The edges of the Samsung get really hot.
- I'm guessing the media player on the Samsung is clearly better, but with the caveat that in a few years it may be outdated anyway. I'll be happy when the XB1/PS4 have DLNA players because in theory their playback capability should be way better. (But on the other hand, it's awesome to have a DLNA player with no fan noise!)
- The Samsung has 3 HDMI side inputs (yay!)...but one on the back that is not down facing!? So you'd need a right angle adapter if you wall mount.

 

[Crazymoogle]

I'm a happy Panasonic Plasma owner who suddenly finds himself in the market for a new set for my bedroom.

Sorry to jump into the thread so late, but what are people's thoughts on Displaylag.com? Are their measurements generally trustworthy?

Ex-PX60U owner here. Displaylag and RTINGS.com are good places to look.

 

[hitgirl]

Make sure the TV and source match. If TV is set to Limited, set PS4/PS3 to Limited. If TV is set to Full, set PS4/PS3 to Full.

If TV doesn't have a menu option to set Limited or Full, then it's always Limited from the source. No TV defaults to Full.

I don't see any options for Full or Limited on 2014 sonys, or am I missing the menue somewhere?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Sorry to jump into the thread so late, but what are people's thoughts on Displaylag.com? Are their measurements generally trustworthy?

I've met the guy at fighting game tournaments. He's serious about the issue and the entire website was born out of a community-wide frustration that there wasn't a reliable central database for the subject. His numbers are solid as long as you know how to interpret them.

- The tester that he uses only tests at 1080p and only through HDMI. The results won't tell you how well a 1080p television will handle a 720p, 480p, or lower res signal. They won't tell you if the component or composite inputs are handled differently. They'll tell you how well a 4K television will handle a 1080p signal, but not how they'll handle content that is actually 4K resolution.

- The results are reportedly more favorable to LCDs than plasmas because the tester doesn't pick up the video signal from plasma displays as quickly as the signal from LCD screens. Reportedly. HDTVtest has a decent write-up that mentions this.

- He only publishes the average of all results for each TV/monitor instead of providing all of the raw data. That's not a big deal, but I can go into a little more detail on this because I own the same testing device. Here's a test that I ran on my new TV:

These are the results for this TV after activating Game mode, turning off all post-processing features possible, and at least getting a ballpark estimate on proper color and picture settings. Displaylag also disables as much post-processing features as possible before taking measurements of their own.

You connect the tester to the TV via HDMI, turn it on, and hold it directly over the TV so that the light sensor lines up with one of the 3 bars on the left side of the screen (top, middle, or bottom). The tester will then report the amount of lag onscreen at that specific region of the screen. This is important because many TVs don't update all of the pixels at once; they'll fill in the lines sequentially. (Other TVs actually will update every line at roughly the same time.) The readings will tell you how much time has elapsed between the point when the TV received the data for the current frame and when that frame has been drawn on the part of the screen that you're measuring. The readings will fluctuate about 0.1 to 0.2 milliseconds in either direction. Displaylag will take these 3 measurements, add them together and average them out, and that's the number that will be reported for the TV. (In this case, it would be 17ms.)

To better understand the meaning behind those numbers, I went to the trouble of using my tester on a VGA CRT monitor just to confirm that it would function the way that I thought it would (spoiler: it did):

I went through some control tests beforehand to confirm that the extra adapters I had to use to do this didn't add any lag of their own. (I measured about 0.1 to 0.2 ms extra, but that's negligible and within the margin of error.) The numbers above should make sense if you think about how a 60hz CRT operates. At 60 frames per second, it takes about 16.6 ms to draw a single frame from top to bottom, after which the next frame will start from the top. In these readings, we see that the top bar is just a little over 0 ms, the bottom bar is just a little under 16ms, and the middle bar is halfway between, as should be expected from a typical "lagless" CRT.

What's interesting, though, is that Displaylag would say that such a CRT actually has 8 milliseconds of lag. And that would technically be true, but since I think most gamers consider the "lag" of a gaming TV to be more specifically defined as "how much it lags behind a CRT," then maybe it makes more sense to subtract about 7-8ms or so from DL's readings instead of just using them raw.

So that's some things to think about. Displaylag is an enormously important resource imo, although I think it's important not to extrapolate more data than what is actually there. Specifically, I think the best use of it is for comparing specific tested TVs of the same type (LCD vs LCD, etc.) against each other.

I don't see any options for Full or Limited on 2014 sonys, or am I missing the menue somewhere?

There are options for it somewhere, probably in "Pro Picture Setup." Can't remember specifically. You can adjust it for each individual HDMI input. They're all set to auto-detect by default but I'm not sure how accurate that is; I set them manually before I connected anything.

 

[kuroshiki]

I think this is good place to start.

Looking for hdtv. I just saw bestbuy insignia 40 inch for cheap.

http://www.bestbuy.com/m/e/product/...2992002&pid=1219085626464&pcatId=abcat0101000

Any opinion on this?

 

[Peltz]

I've met the guy at fighting game tournaments. He's serious about the issue and the entire website was born out of a community-wide frustration that there wasn't a reliable central database for the subject. His numbers are solid as long as you know how to interpret them.

- The tester that he uses only tests at 1080p and only through HDMI. The results won't tell you how well a 1080p television will handle a 720p, 480p, or lower res signal. They won't tell you if the component or composite inputs are handled differently. They'll tell you how well a 4K television will handle a 1080p signal, but not how they'll handle content that is actually 4K resolution.

- The results are reportedly more favorable to LCDs than plasmas because the tester doesn't pick up the video signal from plasma displays as quickly as the signal from LCD screens. Reportedly. HDTVtest has a decent write-up that mentions this.

- He only publishes the average of all results for each TV/monitor instead of providing all of the raw data. That's not a big deal, but I can go into a little more detail on this because I own the same testing device. Here's a test that I ran on my new TV:

These are the results for this TV after activating Game mode, turning off all post-processing features possible, and at least getting a ballpark estimate on proper color and picture settings. Displaylag also disables as much post-processing features as possible before taking measurements of their own.

You connect the tester to the TV via HDMI, turn it on, and hold it directly over the TV so that the light sensor lines up with one of the 3 bars on the left side of the screen (top, middle, or bottom). The tester will then report the amount of lag onscreen at that specific region of the screen. This is important because many TVs don't update all of the pixels at once; they'll fill in the lines sequentially. (Other TVs actually will update every line at roughly the same time.) The readings will tell you how much time has elapsed between the point when the TV received the data for the current frame and when that frame has been drawn on the part of the screen that you're measuring. The readings will fluctuate about 0.1 to 0.2 milliseconds in either direction. Displaylag will take these 3 measurements, add them together and average them out, and that's the number that will be reported for the TV. (In this case, it would be 17ms.)

To better understand the meaning behind those numbers, I went to the trouble of using my tester on a VGA CRT monitor just to confirm that it would function the way that I thought it would (spoiler: it did):

I went through some control tests beforehand to confirm that the extra adapters I had to use to do this didn't add any lag of their own. (I measured about 0.1 to 0.2 ms extra, but that's negligible and within the margin of error.) The numbers above should make sense if you think about how a 60hz CRT operates. At 60 frames per second, it takes about 16.6 ms to draw a single frame from top to bottom, after which the next frame will start from the top. In these readings, we see that the top bar is just a little over 0 ms, the bottom bar is just a little under 16ms, and the middle bar is halfway between, as should be expected from a typical "lagless" CRT.

What's interesting, though, is that Displaylag would say that such a CRT actually has 8 milliseconds of lag. And that would technically be true, but since I think most gamers consider the "lag" of a gaming TV to be more specifically defined as "how much it lags behind a CRT," then maybe it makes more sense to subtract about 7-8ms or so from DL's readings instead of just using them raw.

So that's some things to think about. Displaylag is an enormously important resource imo, although I think it's important not to extrapolate more data than what is actually there. Specifically, I think the best use of it is for comparing specific tested TVs of the same type (LCD vs LCD, etc.) against each other.


There are options for it somewhere, probably in "Pro Picture Setup." Can't remember specifically. You can adjust it for each individual HDMI input. They're all set to auto-detect by default but I'm not sure how accurate that is; I set them manually before I connected anything.

Sage-like analysis as usual, Sixfortyfive. Thanks for explaining this. I read every word and appreciate you addressing my question, including its unasked implications -- of which that not even I was aware. (e.g. the 8ms measured from a CRT and the fact that it's only being tested with 1080p content, and averaged). Fantastic work on your part.

Edit: Going by your gut, (or by any other method you deem fit) how many frames do you think get added when a decent HDTV scales a 720p image to its 1080p resolution? Anyone can chime in, here. I plan to use an XRGB-mini at 720p on my current 1080p Panasonic Viera Plasma set (for them scanlines) and I'm worried about adding sluggishness to my experience.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Going by your gut, (or by any other method you deem fit) how many frames do you think get added when a decent HDTV scales a 720p image to its 1080p resolution? Anyone can chime in, here. I plan to use an XRGB-mini at 720p on my current 1080p Panasonic Viera Plasma set (for them scanlines) and I'm worried about adding sluggishness to my experience.

On most 1080p sets, there shouldn't be significant scaling lag for 720p and 480p sources. We're talking half a frame or less, but some might be significantly worse than that; I couldn't tell you for sure. Interlaced sources are where the biggest differences tend to crop up; different sets can handle those with extremely different processing options and results. This becomes a very important issue once you go retro (specifically pre-Dreamcast) because modern TVs can't tell the difference between 240p and 480i. The OP of the upscaler thread has some notes on this.

All of this goes out the window with 4K televisions. I haven't seen a single one that's been rated well in this regard (although I'm also not going to pretend that I've been actively looking for one, either). The rest of this thread can attest to whether 4K sets are worth buying for general TV use, but when it comes to a gaming-specific setup I think it's a huge waste of money. 4K monitors might fare better.

The Framemeister can mitigate the TV's processing lag to some degree for 240p/480i sources (and those kinds of sources are what you'd be buying an upscaler for in the first place), but I think it's very important to pair that device with a low-lag TV because it adds 20ms of lag on its own. That's probably not significant to most gamers by itself but I wonder if it might be the difference that pushes an otherwise acceptable TV into being an undesirable one.

 

[Peltz]

On most 1080p sets, there shouldn't be significant scaling lag for 720p and 480p sources. We're talking half a frame or less, but some might be significantly worse than that; I couldn't tell you for sure. Interlaced sources are where the biggest differences tend to crop up; different sets can handle those with extremely different processing options and results. This becomes a very important issue once you go retro (specifically pre-Dreamcast) because modern TVs can't tell the difference between 240p and 480i. The OP of the upscaler thread has some notes on this.

All of this goes out the window with 4K televisions. I haven't seen a single one that's been rated well in this regard (although I'm also not going to pretend that I've been actively looking for one, either). The rest of this thread can attest to whether 4K sets are worth buying for general TV use, but when it comes to a gaming-specific setup I think it's a huge waste of money. 4K monitors might fare better.

The Framemeister can mitigate the TV's processing lag to some degree for 240p/480i sources (and those kinds of sources are what you'd be buying an upscaler for in the first place), but I think it's very important to pair that device with a low-lag TV because it adds 20ms of lag on its own. That's probably not significant to most gamers by itself but I wonder if it might be the difference that pushes an otherwise acceptable TV into being an undesirable one.

Good point.

But, more importantly, modern sets don't even come with composite, S-Video, VGA, or RGB anymore which is totally jarring to me. So it looks like retro gamers wont really be able to even avoid having to use an upscaler after CRTs die off if they are trying to preserve their old stuff. Seriously, how do they not at least support composite?

I think a niche company needs to come out with hi-end HDTV's designed specifically for gamers that appropriately handle old and new content with as little lag as possible, and as faithfully as possible. It should have proper scaling for gaming built in with tons of legacy format inputs. I think there's a bigger market for it than the major manufacturer's realize (or I'm crazy).

 

[hoverboarder]

All of this goes out the window with 4K televisions. I haven't seen a single one that's been rated well in this regard (although I'm also not going to pretend that I've been actively looking for one, either). The rest of this thread can attest to whether 4K sets are worth buying for general TV use, but when it comes to a gaming-specific setup I think it's a huge waste of money. 4K monitors might fare better

I don't have lag testing eyes, but PS3 and Wii U to my untrained eyes look and play amazing on the new Sony X850B I picked up. Just my input.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I think a niche company needs to come out with hi-end HDTV's designed specifically for gamers that appropriately handle old and new content with as little lag as possible, and as faithfully as possible. It should have proper scaling for gaming built in with tons of legacy format inputs. I think there's a bigger market for it than the major manufacturer's realize (or I'm crazy).

Most people either don't know how video games are supposed to feel or can't tell the difference. And I think that the less informed people who actually can tell when something is unresponsive are more likely to just assume that the game itself is programmed to be unresponsive, not the TV.

It's not even as big of a deal on dedicated gaming forums that I would have expected it to be. The Wii U Gamepad has garbage lag for NES/SNES Virtual Console games, and it was pretty clear to me right when I picked up my first VC game. I did tests on it to make sure and posted a thread about it. And I don't think I ever read anything else on GAF or elsewhere that even talked about this issue for the year and a half that the Wii U had been on the market up to that point.

Furthermore, I pretty much lost faith in self-proclaimed retro gamers as well when the Retron 5 got all of that pre-release hype and rave reviews, even from sources who seriously should have known better and been more thorough. (smh Digital Foundry.) People just flat out don't know how their products are supposed to function.

(Sorry if I'm sort of derailing this thread, heh.)

I don't have lag testing eyes, but PS3 and Wii U to my untrained eyes look and play amazing on the new Sony X850B I picked up. Just my input.

And I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. Like I said, I haven't really looked around. And I know there are at least some 4K monitors that perform in the same range as 1080p monitors when it comes to latency tests, so I figure that TVs shouldn't be too far behind.

 

[geordiemp]

My perfect TV set would be a Sony 1080p 50 inch set OLED with perfect blacks and 8 ms input lag.

Unfortunately They do not make one - it would be the perfect gaming TV.

I have never seen such a set on sale from any manufacturer.

They want to sell 4K, or OLED with big input lag...

Does anyone know a set that would be close ?

 

[Crazymoogle]

But, more importantly, modern sets don't even come with composite, S-Video, VGA, or RGB anymore which is totally jarring to me. So it looks like retro gamers wont really be able to even avoid having to use an upscaler after CRTs die off if they are trying to preserve their old stuff. Seriously, how do they not at least support composite?

Many TVs support composite input through the component jacks. You plug in the yellow (video) cable into the green plug. Sometimes this also requires changing your source to a composite/RF channel as well.

(That being said, I can't say I've tried composite on a TV in the last 5 years.)

There is a strong push to move away from analog plugs. It's more room and wiring on the chassis and inevitably, more money (not a lot, but every manufacturing step counts. And there's always a push towards stuff that needs less servicing.)

 

[hitgirl]

Soxfortyfive that 950B is the IPS monitor one right? Really nice TV. I was really close to getting that one, but decided to go with the best buy 700b until Sony 4K TV lags come down.

 

[Peltz]

Most people either don't know how video games are supposed to feel or can't tell the difference. And I think that the less informed people who actually can tell when something is unresponsive are more likely to just assume that the game itself is programmed to be unresponsive, not the TV.

It's not even as big of a deal on dedicated gaming forums that I would have expected it to be. The Wii U Gamepad has garbage lag for NES/SNES Virtual Console games, and it was pretty clear to me right when I picked up my first VC game. I did tests on it to make sure and posted a thread about it. And I don't think I ever read anything else on GAF or elsewhere that even talked about this issue for the year and a half that the Wii U had been on the market up to that point.

Furthermore, I pretty much lost faith in self-proclaimed retro gamers as well when the Retron 5 got all of that pre-release hype and rave reviews, even from sources who seriously should have known better and been more thorough. (smh Digital Foundry.) People just flat out don't know how their products are supposed to function.

(Sorry if I'm sort of derailing this thread, heh.)


And I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. Like I said, I haven't really looked around. And I know there are at least some 4K monitors that perform in the same range as 1080p monitors when it comes to latency tests, so I figure that TVs shouldn't be too far behind.

I'm with you and share your frustration. The weird thing is that (to me) VC on the Gamepad feels like there is a delay (especially compared to 3DS VC which feels right), yet it's far less pronounced with native Wii U games on the Gamepad, which somehow feel slightly faster.

 

[phxxBullet]

There's an M Series Vizio which is 1080p/120hz, which is rare for a 32" as most are 60hz.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just quick searching on amazon and I found over hundred 32" 1080p TVs with higher than 100hz (100 - 400hz).

 

[simplythebest]

I'm a happy Panasonic Plasma owner who suddenly finds himself in the market for a new set for my bedroom.

Sorry to jump into the thread so late, but what are people's thoughts on Displaylag.com? Are their measurements generally trustworthy?

This site usually goes more in depth

http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/lcd-led/lg/lb5600

 

[hoverboarder]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just quick searching on amazon and I found over hundred 32" 1080p TVs with higher than 100hz (100 - 400hz).

Ah my bad. Just based on what I have seen in Best Buys.

 

[Aske]

The Sony remote has a button ("Scene Select") that brings up an overlay menu with a list of 8 or so TV viewing modes. So you can set game mode on the fly. There's no input relabelling or anything. The other modes just mess with color balance, sharpness, and (sometimes) add motionflow (the "240hz" effect) so turning those on is really a matter of taste. Input lag spikes with the other modes but some games will play identically. I think you could leave it on Game for Netflix and such, no problem, but again, super easy to change (and the effect is instant).

Thanks for the awesome info - I really appreciate your help. The above sounds especially advantageous, and I'm pretty sure the Sony's the best TV for my needs. I need to check out both sets soon, hopefully Wednesday. Then I'll see what Black Friday/Cyber Monday yields.

 

[Kadey]

I'm a happy Panasonic Plasma owner who suddenly finds himself in the market for a new set for my bedroom.

Sorry to jump into the thread so late, but what are people's thoughts on Displaylag.com? Are their measurements generally trustworthy?

You can ask the guy who runs that site here since he has a account here. His name is four wude.

 

[Xtyle]

Really consider buying this Optoma HD25-LV. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BQWX1P2/?tag=neogaf0e-20
My Sony KDS-60XBR2 has a bad bulb and I don't think I will bother buying a new bulb for it this time. Think I can do without a TV and just use a projector too as I mostly just watch bluray and play games anyway.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I have a burn in/phosphor aging question about plasmas. Thought this would be the right place to ask.

I own a Panasonic S60 and have hundreds and hundreds of hours on it (prolly 500+). During this time, I have never viewed any 2.35:1 content outside of the occasional letterboxed video game cutscene - no films at all. Now, I'm really excited to play The Evil Within soon and unfortunately the game displays in 2.35:1 so black bars will be present. My question is if displaying sustained black bars for 15, 20, or even more hours (until I'm done with it) will have any negative effect on the TV, considering the numerous hours I've used it without them. Is there anything I should know? Any precautions to take? Am I worried for nothing?

Thanks.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

I have a burn in/phosphor aging question about plasmas. Thought this would be the right place to ask.

I own a Panasonic S60 and have hundreds and hundreds of hours on it (prolly 500+). During this time, I have never viewed any 2.35:1 content outside of the occasional letterboxed video game cutscene - no films at all. Now, I'm really excited to play The Evil Within soon and unfortunately the game displays in 2.35:1 so black bars will be present. My question is if displaying sustained black bars for 15, 20, or even more hours (until I'm done with it) will have any negative effect on the TV, considering the numerous hours I've used it without them. Is there anything I should know? Any precautions to take? Am I worried for nothing?

Thanks.

You are good.
People would recommend breakin in the set before viewing blacks bars & you did that.

BTW are you saying you will be playing the game non-stop for 15-20 hours?

 

[The Xtortionist]

You are good.
People would recommend breakin in the set before viewing blacks bars & you did that.

BTW are you saying you will be playing the game non-stop for 15-20 hours?

Nope, lol. I meant it'll most likely be the only game I play until I'm done with it, so the only non-letterboxed content I'll be seeing for a good while will be short bursts of the PS4's dashboard. Didn't know if it would cause a problem since I've read that letterboxed/regular content should generally be mixed to avoid damage. But yeah, my letterbox-to-non-letterbox ratio is so disproportionate that it might not matter.

 

[Peltz]

Nope, lol. I meant it'll most likely be the only game I play until I'm done with it, so the only non-letterboxed content I'll be seeing for a good while will be short bursts of the PS4's dashboard. Didn't know if it would cause a problem since I've read that letterboxed/regular content should generally be mixed to avoid damage. But yeah, my letterbox-to-non-letterbox ratio is so disproportionate that it might not matter.

I agree. You're good. I play a metric shit ton of 4:3 content on my Plasma and have no problems because I waited a few hundred hours after break in to do it.

Any retention of the bars will fade away after 5 minutes.

 

[Eyeron]

So, my 11 year old Sharp Aquos (finally) kicked the bucket last night. I'm not in a position to invest in a $2,500+ dream TV at the moment. Wife is buying a car today so the timing couldn't be much worse. I need something around 50" for less than $1,000. I know plasmas are getting phased out. Wanted to snag a Panny but can't find a new one. Used units on amazon are super overpriced. There are a couple of LGs and Vizios in my target range. I'll mostly use it for PS4 and Blu Rays and want to pull the trigger on a purchase today. Any specific recommendations?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Pro from Dover]

Say, I currently have a Panasonic Viera TC-L32C3 and now looking to buy a Toshiba 40L2400U.
The Panasonic had a VGA input for PC allowing full range RGB through that. Does anyone know if the Toshiba makes it capable for full range RGB through HDMI?

 

[hoverboarder]

Thanks in advance!

Look at 50" Sony W800 for $999 or the same TV without 3D, W700 for $799. Very very thin, built in ps3, base is a wall mount.

 

[The Stealth Fox]

I am looking for a 50 inch LED TV for PS4/TV. I am trying to upgrade from a Sharp 32'' LCD TV that I bought in 2008.

My budget is under 700 dollary doos.

Is this any good?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung.../6174103.p?id=1219193701626&skuId=6174103

I am looking for bang for buck here.

 

[hitgirl]

Does anyone know if you can take a Sony TV and just use it in "General" mode but turn down all the motion smoothing stuff to Off to get the same input lag as "Game Mode"? I just want to use one mode and not have to flip between Games and Movies.

Got my TV ISF calibrated, past two TVs I've done the calibration myself with Disney WOW and Digital Video Essentials. I always thought ISF was too warm and dark, but not I realize it's because I've done a bad job trying to mimic it by putting it on Warm and doing a bit of calibration. I see a good amount of difference between the before and after, especially in the colors.

 

[Vio-Lence]

Samsung just cut prices on their f8500 plasmas. 1399, 1999, 2500 for the 51, 60, 64 respectively. Great prices for the last great plasma sets on the market.

Winner of the 2013 & 2014 value electronics panel shoot out.

 

[hitgirl]

Re: difference in input lag between "General" mode with everything turned off and "Gaming Mode". I sort of want to just buy a leo bodnar unit and test it. They are only like $114.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Samsung just cut prices on their f8500 plasmas. 1399, 1999, 2500 for the 51, 60, 64 respectively. Great prices for the last great plasma sets on the market.

Winner of the 2013 & 2014 value electronics panel shoot out.

These are the last plasmas. Both Samsung and LG have announced they are exiting plasmas after 2014. If you still want a plasma, this is literally your last chance. You can wait for a deal at the end of the year during Black Friday but I wouldn't wait forever.

 

[Rodpad]

Re: difference in input lag between "General" mode with everything turned off and "Gaming Mode". I sort of want to just buy a leo bodnar unit and test it. They are only like $114.

Please do if you can. I too am curious about this.

Otherwise though, keeping Gaming mode on for a console works just fine, since the TV is clever enough to recognise a different device on the same HDMI port, and save unique settings for that device.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Does anyone know if you can take a Sony TV and just use it in "General" mode but turn down all the motion smoothing stuff to Off to get the same input lag as "Game Mode"? I just want to use one mode and not have to flip between Games and Movies.

From what I can tell on my set, this is pretty much as good as you can get on each mode (middle bar measurements):

Auto: 104.5 ms
Auto (24p Sync): 104.5 ms
General: 104.5 ms
Cinema: 104.5 ms
Sports: 104.5 ms
Music: 104.5 ms
Animation: 104.5 ms
Photo: 69.2 ms
Game: 16.5 ms
Graphics: 16.5 ms

Only the Game and Graphics modes are relevant for gaming. Another factor to consider is that only those two modes seem to have 4:4:4 chroma. None of the others do, and it doesn't seem to be a setting that you can adjust anywhere in the myriad of menus; it's just something that's always on or always off, as far as I can see.

It's not too cumbersome to save multiple presets and switch between them, though. Game mode allows for two different adjustable presets, Standard and Original, and even though they have different default settings there doesn't seem to be any actual difference between them as far as options go. Graphics mode has one preset. So that alone gives you 3 universal gaming-friendly presets, plus 3 more for each individual HDMI and component input. (You can switch between "Common" and "This Input" for each of the HDMI ports, and it'll recall the settings saved for each of them.) You could use one of the other scene modes entirely for movies and save that to another universal preset (or several). I'm probably making this sound way more convoluted than it is, but the tl;dr is there's no shortage of save slots for picture adjustment settings and it's easy to switch between them once you've set everything up once.

The only difference I can spot between Game and Graphics modes is that Game mode has the option for Impulse Motionflow (but not most of the other image enhancement options), which raises the lag to about 25.1 ms if you turn it on and greatly reduces the brightness of the picture. You'd have to crank the backlight to maximum and play in a dark room to be happy with it, imo.

 

[eso76]

Personally, i didn't wait too much to watch 4:3 or 2:35 content on my new F8500.
No IR.
Yesterday i did see a shadow of something (it was not black bars anyway, it was the menu which had been displayed for too long probably) but the wipe pattern took care of it.

I think people are waaaaay too paranoid about plasma IR.

 

[Rodpad]

From what I can tell on my set, this is pretty much as good as you can get on each mode (middle bar measurements):

Auto: 104.5 ms
Auto (24p Sync): 104.5 ms
General: 104.5 ms
Cinema: 104.5 ms
Sports: 104.5 ms
Music: 104.5 ms
Animation: 104.5 ms
Photo: 69.2 ms
Game: 16.5 ms
Graphics: 16.5 ms

And that's with all the post processing options turned off? If so, thanks.

 

[Sorta Maximus]

All my research leads to Sony for input lag. Their 1080p LCD HDTVs are nice with low input lag and ok 2D picture quality (3D not so much), but it's the 1080p Sony Projectors that have me excited with much better 2D image quality, much better 3D, and still having low gaming lag.

 

[hitgirl]

From what I can tell on my set, this is pretty much as good as you can get on each mode (middle bar measurements):

Auto: 104.5 ms
Auto (24p Sync): 104.5 ms
General: 104.5 ms
Cinema: 104.5 ms
Sports: 104.5 ms
Music: 104.5 ms
Animation: 104.5 ms
Photo: 69.2 ms
Game: 16.5 ms
Graphics: 16.5 ms

Only the Game and Graphics modes are relevant for gaming. Another factor to consider is that only those two modes seem to have 4:4:4 chroma. None of the others do, and it doesn't seem to be a setting that you can adjust anywhere in the myriad of menus; it's just something that's always on or always off, as far as I can see.

It's not too cumbersome to save multiple presets and switch between them, though. Game mode allows for two different adjustable presets, Standard and Original, and even though they have different default settings there doesn't seem to be any actual difference between them as far as options go. Graphics mode has one preset. So that alone gives you 3 universal gaming-friendly presets, plus 3 more for each individual HDMI and component input. (You can switch between "Common" and "This Input" for each of the HDMI ports, and it'll recall the settings saved for each of them.) You could use one of the other scene modes entirely for movies and save that to another universal preset (or several). I'm probably making this sound way more convoluted than it is, but the tl;dr is there's no shortage of save slots for picture adjustment settings and it's easy to switch between them once you've set everything up once.

The only difference I can spot between Game and Graphics modes is that Game mode has the option for Impulse Motionflow (but not most of the other image enhancement options), which raises the lag to about 25.1 ms if you turn it on and greatly reduces the brightness of the picture. You'd have to crank the backlight to maximum and play in a dark room to be happy with it, imo.

Awesome, great response. I thought I felt some input lag on General, even with everything turned off, so I went back over to Game and just copied my ISF calibration values in. You measurements show a lot of lag in General, so I'm glad I did! 4:4:4 is important too, thanks for mentioning that, I use a HTPC and that's one additional thing I like about my Sony vs the Panasonic I had. Thanks again!