Jigolo
Member
Sites I usually check besides HDTVtest:
rtings.com
oled-info.com
flatpanelshd.com
AVS forum
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
Sites I usually check besides HDTVtest:
rtings.com
oled-info.com
flatpanelshd.com
AVS forum
wanderjahr
Banned
I recently was able to use a Leo Bodnar input lag tester to optimize settings for my TV. I'm going to list some obvious and not so obvious ways to reduce lag.
Obviously, not all of these will translate from one set to another, but if anything else, it suggests that seemingly benign settings can introduce additional lag.
Hope this helps!!!
- Use game mode (this is obvious). If you are a fanatic about TV picture calibration and are frustrated by the lack of fine-tuning white balance, check to see if there is a factory menu you can access for more granular adjustments. Game mode is the single most important thing you can do as far as reducing input lag.
- Disable HDMI-CEC. In my tests, this added ~10ms of lag on my set. I disabled it on my TV and on my PS4. Though, disabling it on my PS4 didn't change my lag, but it did change audio cut out (not really relevant to this thread though).
- Disable any power saving settings or ambient screen dimming. Both of these add additional lag (~10ms each).
- If possible, test each HDMI input. I have 4 HDMI inputs and two of them consistently have less input lag (6ms less) than the other two.
- Using TV speakers add input lag. If possible, use a separate audio system. Using TV speakers added ~8ms of lag on my set.
- Some TV's will automatically reduce all post-processing if you label an input PC. I have a Sony and I did this and the lag was the same as game mode. That being said, there were subtle white balance differences and shadow detail.
Obviously, not all of these will translate from one set to another, but if anything else, it suggests that seemingly benign settings can introduce additional lag.
Hope this helps!!!
Jigolo
Member
You forgot to mention what TV you are using and what your input lag measurement ended up on
wanderjahr
Banned
Sure, I can do that. I tested on a 2010 Sony KDL55EX500 and my final lag is 37.3ms. Not likely anybody in this thread will have it, but I think some universal concepts will apply to the suggestions.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
In many ways I still really like my SXRD rear-projection unit. It has a lot of good qualities and that's why I've always come back to it whenever I've tried Plasma and LCD sets. Good picture, low lag, no chance of IR/Burn in, quiet, flicker-free, good motion resolution, no banding/DSE, etc. It's a shame that there are always downsides, though, and in this case it's overscan, slight convergence issues, and a slight greenish tint that is an endemic defect which is why Sony doesn't make these anymore. I don't mind the depth of the cabinet, or replacing the bulbs, honestly, so that's not a downside to me.
Yeah, I liked mine until the optical block started failing. This what the blue filter looked like back in June...
It's only gotten worse since then. I've seen few Youtube DIY videos showing how to replace the parts but I'm not sure if it's worth it at this point.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
Mine's not nearly that bad, just a slight green smear on the right hand side of the screen. It's only really noticeable on gray backgrounds or old B&W movies and TV shows.
Even though I've tried and returned many flat-panel sets because I couldn't stand their various issues, I've already decided that when my SXRD gets worse or completely dies, I am moving on. I will just have to learn to live with DSE and the other issues those sets have.
RaySpencer
Member
Sony - KDL65W850C - $1799 CAD
Samsung - UN65J6300 - $1799 CAD
Vizio - E65-C3 - $1399 CAD
Which to get? Or is there a secret 4th option thats best?
I know the Vizio is good, and its obviously way cheaper, but the Samsung/Sony are thinner and with nicer bezels so it'll look better wall mounted.
Samsung - UN65J6300 - $1799 CAD
Vizio - E65-C3 - $1399 CAD
Which to get? Or is there a secret 4th option thats best?
I know the Vizio is good, and its obviously way cheaper, but the Samsung/Sony are thinner and with nicer bezels so it'll look better wall mounted.
DirtyLarry
Member
Hello All,
I posted a bit earlier in the thread. I am settling on the Vizio M series, can anyone tell me what the difference between the C1 and C3 that they offer? From the research I have done, it looks be the amount of the active Led Zones and the C1 is superior?
Long story short, I was looking at the M60-C3 is at fit my budget best, but the M65-C1 is on sale at Best Buy for $200 off, so it falls exactly into my max of $1500.
So it looks like I can get an extra 5 inches and the C1 model for $200 more than I intended to spend ($1299 compared to $1499), so I think I am going to do it very soon, like within an hour soon.
However if someone can confirm my research, it would make me feel a lot better in making this decision.
TIA,
DL
I posted a bit earlier in the thread. I am settling on the Vizio M series, can anyone tell me what the difference between the C1 and C3 that they offer? From the research I have done, it looks be the amount of the active Led Zones and the C1 is superior?
Long story short, I was looking at the M60-C3 is at fit my budget best, but the M65-C1 is on sale at Best Buy for $200 off, so it falls exactly into my max of $1500.
So it looks like I can get an extra 5 inches and the C1 model for $200 more than I intended to spend ($1299 compared to $1499), so I think I am going to do it very soon, like within an hour soon.
However if someone can confirm my research, it would make me feel a lot better in making this decision.
TIA,
DL
User 479360
Banned
My Sharp Aquos (9 years old at least) is starting to show a lot of image retention, from console menus and browsers. It's soon going to be time for a new TV, but I feel like it's a bad time to buy with 4K still unproven.
Outdoor Miner
Member
The C1 and C3 are different panels. There are slight differences between the 2 but both offer great IQ. The C3 panels are manufactured by Sharp. Forgot who does the C1.
Always go as big as you can. If you're doing Best Buy, use the movers coupon and you can get the M65 down to $1350.
DirtyLarry
Member
Can you get the Movers Coupon at the post office itself or do you have to get it mailed?
My parents do not want to have their mailing address changed just yet because they have some important stuff being mailed to their house due to selling it, so if they do submit it they are going to give about a month until they have their mail coming here, so not sure if I will be able to get the movers coupon by the time this sale is done.
If you do get it right then and there I can have my mom do it tomorrow.
W850C will have playable gaming even when not using special mode, unlike Samsung... not sure about Vizio.
DirtyLarry
Member
It's done. Got the 65" M Series for $1350. Did the moving form online. Got the 10% coupon, printed it out had the model on sale I wanted on my phone and went to my local Best Buy. Whole transaction took 5 minutes total, 3 of those minutes was the kid saying he was not sure the 10% coupon applied to TV's. I assured him it applied to Vizio but when he scanned it it worked right away. Delivery is October 2nd.
Thanks again for the help and the info. Especially the movers coupon. I was able to step up to the 65" for just $50 more than the price of the 60" (sans movers coupon). I am happier than a pig in shit right now. Even with tax it come in under $50 less than my preferred max spend.
Just got the confirmation email...
OLED prices are about to take a nice drop if listings on Adorama are any indication, 55" down to $3K and 65" - $5K. Goes for both the flat and curved models.
http://slickdeals.net/f/8116598-lg-...ee-lg-musicflow-p7-adorama-pre-order-and-more
At this rate, perhaps the 65" will hit $2.5-3K by next year...
http://slickdeals.net/f/8116598-lg-...ee-lg-musicflow-p7-adorama-pre-order-and-more
At this rate, perhaps the 65" will hit $2.5-3K by next year...
lifeexpectancy
Member
FML.... I was going to try to wait for the Panny OLEDs to drop in price since they'll probably do better on input lag than LG, but that FLAT 55" for $3000 is extremely tempting!
Edit: Finally found a decent panny on CL, it's the VT not the ZT but still... guy is asking $1500, what say the plasma-philes here?
Model: TC-P55VT60
States it's one year old. Asking price is $1500.
Broman1978
Junior Member
So I just ordered an LG 60" 4K
lifeexpectancy
Member
So I just ordered an LG 60" 4K
An LCD I'm assuming? Thought the OLED is only 55" or 65" (or that 77" craziness).
Broman1978
Junior Member
Sindou_Hikaru20
Member
A really bad tv in my opinion, really bad black level and no local dimming function, often heavy DSE and banding 
Broman1978
Junior Member
A really bad tv in my opinion, really bad black level and no local dimming function, often heavy DSE and banding
Haha dont say that!! =P
I will see later this week when it arrives then =)
I have a ZT and the only difference is the VT lacks the anti reflective coating so it's going to be a mirror if you have a lot of windows.
The picture is ridiculous, the motion sharpness is nuts, the only downside is I've noticed some stubborn IR with destiny and Hulu because they insist on solid white continuous HUD or channel elements.
The picture is ridiculous, the motion sharpness is nuts, the only downside is I've noticed some stubborn IR with destiny and Hulu because they insist on solid white continuous HUD or channel elements.
FrankNitty
Member
The prices are looking good on the OLED. Waiting for the place I ordered from to get their shipment. Should be in the coming week. Ordered the LG 65EF9500 4K OLED.
It will replace my AX800U in the living room. Now I have to decide what to keep.
I know I'm keeping my 65ZT60 for sure. But now its between the AX800 and the 500M. I love my Kuro, and it id a better display then the AX800 in terms of PQ, but I'm looking at the size difference, 3D, 4K, display port, etc.
Half the reason I want to keep the Kuro is because it's the last great display they made. 500M is still one of the best displays ever made, so if the ZT60. Soooo I can keep those 2 and bring the OLED into the family or bid farewell to the 500M and let the AX800 be a big ass monitor (secondary)
Not sure what to do
It will replace my AX800U in the living room. Now I have to decide what to keep.
I know I'm keeping my 65ZT60 for sure. But now its between the AX800 and the 500M. I love my Kuro, and it id a better display then the AX800 in terms of PQ, but I'm looking at the size difference, 3D, 4K, display port, etc.
Half the reason I want to keep the Kuro is because it's the last great display they made. 500M is still one of the best displays ever made, so if the ZT60. Soooo I can keep those 2 and bring the OLED into the family or bid farewell to the 500M and let the AX800 be a big ass monitor (secondary)
Not sure what to do
Damn, I'd love to have that problem. Congrats on the OLED pickup.
I've been going back and forth between my heart telling me to buy now and my brain telling me to wait. My brain has been winning for over a year but has been giving ground fast as the optical block on my display continues to deteriorate. I switched the picture mode to vivid so colors are coming in more clearly over the green tint. Should buy me a little more time.
Based on what I've been reading it looks more and more like waiting until 2016 is the best move right now. Every year we see improvements with new models but with HDR and Dolby Vision rolling out there are a lot questions when it comes to what current models will be capable of. All major studios are now releasing Dolby Vision titles theatrically. If they make an eventual release on UHD Blu-ray I would want a capable television to view them on in the coming years. Only the Vizio R series which is expected to cost $6K for the 65" officially supports it so far.
UHD Blu-ray pushed back to early next year
lifeexpectancy
Member
Thanks for the info man. I may pick up that VT, but the only review of it that actually gave the input lag number had it at 48ms, which is actually MORE than, or at least the same as, the OLEDs LG is making. If that's the case I may just pop on that $3k flat model if it's still on sale for that price, IF I can get BestBuy to price match it.
Have any info on the ZT/VT input lag numbers? Maybe the review I found just wasn't a very reliable one.
FrankNitty
Member
Thanks, still have about a week or so hopefully the end of the week until it's in stock then needs to be shipped to me. So I have a week or so to figure out what the hell I'm going to do with all these damn TV's lol.
I would want a display capable of it as well, but I see it as a stop gap until the panasonic's release, and get down to the $6k and below range. Once that happens I'd upgrade again to one of those.
The good thing about the LG is that it is a 10bit panel, supports HDR, of course contrast out of this world. So I think it will hold me over nicely.
JudgmentJay
Member
I've got my eye on the 65EF9500 as well. I'm hoping it drops to around $4k at some point in the next year. If it does, its mine.
anexanhume
Member
LG's OLED just got named the best display ever by the highly technical DisplayMate. They said it's better than $50,000 professional CRTs and essentially perfect in many of their tests.
http://www.displaymate.com/TV_OLED_LCD_ShootOut_1.htm
http://www.displaymate.com/TV_OLED_LCD_ShootOut_1.htm
I really want that TV but I also am a little hesistant for UHD and HDR to settle in properly.
Jigolo
Member
I can't wait till JDI and Samsung enter the game in the next year or so.
anexanhume
Member
Yup. This overview removed all doubt that I need to wait for something else. This is an end-game technology. Only thing to worry about is support for things like HDR and the right connection standards when considering an OLED.
Jigolo
Member
From this point forward I don't think there is any need to worry about that. UHD Blu Ray has been standardized and so has HDR. HDR is already in the newest OLEDs I don't see a purpose for removing that feature and HDMI 2 A seems like it's going to be standard for higher end TVs going forward (and lower end TVs later). Only question is who will be the first to reach Rec. 2020
It feels like the OLED Big Bang has just exploded this past year with LG and Panasonic. There is a ton of hype surrounding the Panny TV sans the price. The only thing left is for others to catch up. JDI has been rumored to be developing small to mid size OLED panels; I'm guessing smartphones, tablets, and laptop/PC monitors (Sony already has small professional OLED monitors for sale since who knows how long). Interestingly enough I think these will be the first RGB stripe sub pixels for small(er) OLED panels since Sammy has been using diamond since forever (ugh). The panel in PlayStationVR is said to be OLED and RGB so I think it has to be an in house panel which will probably make it's way to other small electronics.
Samsung, I think will enter the oled TV business by next year. Hopefully they use their own panels instead of licensing LG panels so it could drive competition (JDI too; Panny and Sony should create their own big panels in the future). Once they do hopefully we will see a bigger selection of screen sizes like we do now, 32 - 80 ins etc and prices begin to drop at a faster rate.
As you can probably tell, I'm very excited for OLED to takeover.
Haint
Member
I did some cloned timer tests on the North American VT60 (and U50) couple years back. Those values represent the then current FW, Game Mode, with every possible setting/feature turned OFF (including HDMI CEC). I did not test different HDMI inputs though. There is some debate as to the Bodnar lag device's accuracy measuring PDP's, but it seemed to line up really close with what I observed cloning timers. Obviously you have to account for the laptop LCD panel's lag + PRT, which is a minimum 10-13ish ms add-on to all the values you see in the pics. That would put the VT60 in the 42-45ms range assuming a middle screen reading, and the U50 at 26-29ms.
I got a 40 inch Curved 4k Samsung TV for a really good deal. The only downside is that my R9 290 crossfire doesn't have hdmi 2.0.
So I might have to buy a 980ti now :/
Anyway. The model is JU6550. I can't really find much on this on the Internet which is a bit strange.
Anyone know much about this? Any experiences. Only arrived very recently for me. Is it good?
So I might have to buy a 980ti now :/
Anyway. The model is JU6550. I can't really find much on this on the Internet which is a bit strange.
Anyone know much about this? Any experiences. Only arrived very recently for me. Is it good?
Awesome, I bought my 65 Vizio P 4k for the same price about about 6-7 months ago.It's done. Got the 65" M Series for $1350. Did the moving form online. Got the 10% coupon, printed it out had the model on sale I wanted on my phone and went to my local Best Buy. Whole transaction took 5 minutes total, 3 of those minutes was the kid saying he was not sure the 10% coupon applied to TV's. I assured him it applied to Vizio but when he scanned it it worked right away. Delivery is October 2nd.
Thanks again for the help and the info. Especially the movers coupon. I was able to step up to the 65" for just $50 more than the price of the 60" (sans movers coupon). I am happier than a pig in shit right now. Even with tax it come in under $50 less than my preferred max spend.
Just got the confirmation email...
Great blacks due to FALD and no lag at all. Enjoy!
Jigolo
Member
anexanhume
Member
From this point forward I don't think there is any need to worry about that. UHD Blu Ray has been standardized and so has HDR. HDR is already in the newest OLEDs I don't see a purpose for removing that feature and HDMI 2 A seems like it's going to be standard for higher end TVs going forward (and lower end TVs later). Only question is who will be the first to reach Rec. 2020
It feels like the OLED Big Bang has just exploded this past year with LG and Panasonic. There is a ton of hype surrounding the Panny TV sans the price. The only thing left is for others to catch up. JDI has been rumored to be developing small to mid size OLED panels; I'm guessing smartphones, tablets, and laptop/PC monitors (Sony already has small professional OLED monitors for sale since who knows how long). Interestingly enough I think these will be the first RGB stripe sub pixels for small(er) OLED panels since Sammy has been using diamond since forever (ugh). The panel in PlayStationVR is said to be OLED and RGB so I think it has to be an in house panel which will probably make it's way to other small electronics.
Samsung, I think will enter the oled TV business by next year. Hopefully they use their own panels instead of licensing LG panels so it could drive competition (JDI too; Panny and Sony should create their own big panels in the future). Once they do hopefully we will see a bigger selection of screen sizes like we do now, 32 - 80 ins etc and prices begin to drop at a faster rate.
As you can probably tell, I'm very excited for OLED to takeover.
You don't think the enhanced color, resolution and refresh range of SuperMHL over HDMI 2 is important?
lifeexpectancy
Member
Thanks, I appreciate that. Really trying to wait for Panny OLEDs to shake out. They're using LG's panels but I have a feeling their image processing will be better. But it's getting harder and harder to wait now that the flat OLEDs are coming out.
lifeexpectancy
Member
FYI for anyone that is interested, I tried to get the guy at Best Buy to price match this deal today. It just so happened their LG rep was on his way to the store, so he was willing to verify with the LG rep that the price was authorized by them.
Apparently, the LG rep confirmed that these are in fact supposed to be the nationwide prices BEGINNING October 4th. So BB won't price match it now, but he said that I could buy one of the 55" flat models they have in their warehouse and pick it up saturday for the current price of $3999, and come back on October 4th to get the extra $1000 refunded. Or I could preorder a 65" flat model for $5999 (only pay 10% down), and pick it up when they get more in stock in a few weeks for the then-current price of $4999.
So basically their current prices are $1000 higher than they will be on October 4th. So if you're considering getting that deal online, don't. Wait, buy it at BB, and get the warranty along with it. The free sound bar isn't worth voiding the warranty over.
Jigolo
Member
Holy cow. I hope he's right
lifeexpectancy
Member
Well, the LG rep was there at the store, so it better be. Supposedly (according to BB guy, so grain of salt and all that, although I did lay eyes on the LG rep), the price was planned to drop in October, but some online sites are dropping it early. However, this effectively voids the warranty because they are going against LG's directives and aren't authorized dealers .... or whatever.
Still, it seems plausible. If I go back on the 4th and they won't refund me the $1000 difference, I'll just return the thing for a full refund. I can wait a little longer on my panny plasma if I have to.
Also, the new 2015 EF9500 ones don't need a sound bar anyway. Unless you're the 7.1 surround-sound system type, or an audiophile of a moderate degree, the sound that the TV puts out is adequate now with the newer harmon kardon speakers built-in. They had the 65" flat version on display and I tested out the sound on it.
Haint
Member
Honestly, if someone has $10k for a TV that will be obsolete in 1-2 years (e.g. full spec HDR and expanded color space standard), they could probably swing $24k if they really wanted to. $10k is not competing with the market, that's ultra rich, super niche.
Saying someone who can afford to spend $10K can also afford $24K is a pretty god damn huge stretch.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Um no? I have a 10k budget for a new TV, cant go projector, want an 80" screen. Why the heck do you think if I can afford a 10k budget for a tv I'd be okay increasing that by 140%? I saved and budgeted for this upgrade, and yes I am trying to hold off for another year for HDR to hit hard, but its not easy!
And yes 10k is niche, its flagship display range, but its not so niche it doesnt have a market (the 9500 and 940c have floor space in most stores for a reason, they actually do sell).
Only the 4K OLEDs are dropping by 1k?
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Hopefully the non 4K ones too. So far in my country the EC9300 (EC930 here) has not been lower than 1960 euros or so.
I have a question about something. Many TV's nowadays have true-motion,motion flow and so on. I found out about this when i had the Sony W829b. I put motion flow on smooth and damn, it was as if all my games were 60fps all of a sudden. Well, they were so smooth that it truly felt 60fps to me, that smooth. I am sure most of you know all about that. The only truly shitty thing, the dealbreaker is that it also introduces a ton of artifacts. Is there actually any TV out there that does this motion thing almost flawlessly with very little to no artifacts?
I remember playing GTA V with motion flow enabled and if i was not turning the camera too quickly, it looked beautiful.
I have a question about something. Many TV's nowadays have true-motion,motion flow and so on. I found out about this when i had the Sony W829b. I put motion flow on smooth and damn, it was as if all my games were 60fps all of a sudden. Well, they were so smooth that it truly felt 60fps to me, that smooth. I am sure most of you know all about that. The only truly shitty thing, the dealbreaker is that it also introduces a ton of artifacts. Is there actually any TV out there that does this motion thing almost flawlessly with very little to no artifacts?
I remember playing GTA V with motion flow enabled and if i was not turning the camera too quickly, it looked beautiful.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Samsung has the absolute best motion interpolation I've ever seen, even at higher settings, when it comes to games (and their low settings are a god sent for removing low frame rate judder from film and tv without the soap opera effect!). Sadly turning it on also introduce about an extr 40-50ms of input lag (some reports even have it at 100ms!).
LG has the worst I've seen followed closely by vizio.