Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
From a purely technical, home theater enthusiast point of view, most of the best TVs are plasma.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Do you own a mid-range/hi-end projector? Any measurements vs. a decent panel you'd care to provide?
lostsupper
Banned
Gaming is another story.
Aren't, like, all the TV producers capable of making Kuro like quality TV's or better if they wanted, and the only thing stopping them is, efficiency, cost and demand? Like, they only want to make relatively affordable TV's, or TV's that lots of people might buy, instead of luxury TV's that only a couple of people might buy.
The problem is making good TV's at an affordable price, and since the majority of people probably don't care as long as it's "HD1080p", there's not really any incentive or push to radically improve the status quo (Introducing slightly better models on a yearly basis.)
Plasma's are just as sharp. It's still 1:1 pixel mapping.
They're recommended because they do offer the best picture quality.
And LED refers to the backlighting on LCD tvs. It's not a screen display tech.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
OLEDs are new, so there aren't many options yet and they're damn expensive.
LED doesn't match plasma black levels or motion handling (has more blur), can have light bleeding (on edge lit models) etc.. But that's just personal preference, I have an LED and love it. And was annoyed by buzzing and temporary image retention when I tried plasma as I outlined in my prior post.
The fact is that all the TV technologies have their own strengths and weaknesses, so it's just a matter of what you want, what drawbacks bug your or don't etc.
Plasma gets a lot of love as it gets closest to reference picture quality for the lowest prices--so it's a great option for videophiles on a budget.
As I said, I loved the picture, but the buzzing and temp IR drove me nuts (many won't hear or see those though, I'm a bit OCD), and I'm not a videphile at all and don't care about getting close to reference picture. Thus LED ended up being the better fit for me.
But to each, their own. Just have to check a bunch out and decide for yourself.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Is there any new line of sets that Sony, Samsung & Panasonic will be releasing this year or have they already released their 2013 line & won't be releasing anything new until next year?
I'm gearing up to upgrade my home theater with the PS3/XboxOne this November & want the latest.
The TV tech sites are a cluster fuck & can never find all the info for release dates or reviews from any one site.
I'm gearing up to upgrade my home theater with the PS3/XboxOne this November & want the latest.
The TV tech sites are a cluster fuck & can never find all the info for release dates or reviews from any one site.
Pop
Member
Remember that house that you could get, well you'll just have to hold off. Moms basement is pretty comfy.
You don't know what you're talking about.. 120 hz refresh? You mean 120 hz interpolated input-lag crap. 5 ms response doesn't even refer to the input lag, which is probably 70ms+.
Plasma destroys your laggy Vizio, plain and simple.
Panasonic S60/S64 (S64 is Costco or Sam's Club only.) 65" S64 is $1300 at Costco.
Check it: plasma rules for gaming. Low input lag with the right set, cheap (I got my 42" Panasonic S60 for $300 and my 50" Panasonic S64 for $530), and the picture quality is absolutely mindblowing.
I came from an LG S-IPS panel with very low input lag, and my plasmas utterly wreck the S-IPS LCD in every single way.
Don't believe the FUD-spreaders, plasma is king for movie watching and gaming. Take it from someone that had a great gaming LCD before... LCD/LED just doesn't touch plasma, period.
Go buy a Panasonic S64, ST60 (more input lag), VT60, or ZT60 if you're a baller. They are incredible TV's.
Make sure to go to AVSForum and put in the user pro calibrations for maximum image quality.
The only true current consumer OLED TV is very limited LG set that's only sold like in London, and a few places in Asia.
It's like $15 grand for a 55".
I'm more worried about Burn In on those sets than plasmas.
Hope the quirks are taken care of in the future.
Jerry Orbach
Member
After obsessing over this same question for what felt like years, I finally selected a 32" Samsung UN32EH4003, based on this recommendation from displaylag.com. I'm usually a pretty critical guy, so I was expecting to have to return at least the first TV I bought for some reason or another - dead pixels, lost the panel lottery, whatever - but as of right now I don't have a single complaint about this set. I literally couldn't be happier, and it's honestly making me a little uncomfortable.
EDIT: Hold on! I thought of a complaint: the stand feels kinda flimsy for such a comparatively thick TV. I'm worried it's going to start sagging any minute now. Whew, that's better.
Plasma is a better display type, period. People need to stop apologizing for the shortcomings of LCD TV's (and yes, LED is a made up marketing term that offers no perceivable benefits in PQ over standard CCFL backlight LCDs)
Color accuracy, contrast ratio (native), and especially motion display (fast motion in LCDs is horrible, even on the ones with black frame insertion, and when I say fast I mean 60fps gaming, not "fast" action scenes in 24p movies) is still miles better on a plasma than on LCDs (and DLP projectors I might add). All of this provides you with a much better playing experience.
And yes, I had a Sony Bravia 2012 LCD with LED backlightning for a month before I sold it, the PQ was just not up to par with my old PZ85 Panny plasma. A month later, I bought the UT50 model and...it's not even a contest for gaming. So a better display IS a better display under any circumstances.
Exacty! 1:1 mapping gives you the same sharpness regardless of display type...another misconception of LCDs.
And to the poster up there about projectors, the latest D-ILA JVC's have blacks that match and even surpasses those of the Kuro's. Of course, the "Entry level" one goes for about $3,500, but the PQ is there.
lostsupper
Banned
1:1 pixel mapping is not the same as 4:4:4 Chroma.
You can get a better plasma set than an lcd at a given price, but the image retention and dithering that are inherent to plasmas are rotten for playing games.
I think most of the plasma cheerleaders on the internet have read too many reviews from people who don't play a lot of games. If playing games on plasma was as superior as folks on the internet will scream at you, why haven't the e-sports and fighting game community switched over?
You can get a better plasma set than an lcd at a given price, but the image retention and dithering that are inherent to plasmas are rotten for playing games.
I think most of the plasma cheerleaders on the internet have read too many reviews from people who don't play a lot of games. If playing games on plasma was as superior as folks on the internet will scream at you, why haven't the e-sports and fighting game community switched over?
I've had a Panasonic plasma since 2009, bought it specifically to play games on and i have no image retention/burn in or other permanent damage, didn't even think about keeping up with how many hours i play or wether or not something is gonna damage my screen.
Dithering also isn't an issue unless you sit up close to your TV like a child.
Because what you're talking about, IR (that isn't an issue on modern plasmas, P.S. image retention is NOT the same as image burn-in, try to get your terms right) and dithering (which you can't see at proper distance, just like you wouldn't sit 1 foot away from an LCD HDTV) have nothing to do with super fast response time that e-sports fanatics and fighting game hardcore players demand.
Also, you think those guys use LCD HDTV's? LOL. No. They use ultra responsive LCD monitors or even CRT's.
So your argument is debunked. Unless you're a competitive fighting/FPS player where every ms of input lag counts, plasma is just as responsive (and in most cases has LESS input lag) than an LCD/LED, and if you're one of those elite types, you're not playing on an HDTV anyways.
Also, 1:1 pixel mapping isn't even relevant to 4:4:4 chroma subsampling. Why are you bringing up something that has to do with image color and luminosity? I would suggest you learn what you're even talking about before you make a further fool of yourself.
Listen to this man.
lostsupper
Banned
Ease up on the hostility, brother.
Most plasmas don't do 4:4:4 chroma, so small text (like the kind in a lot of games) looks blurrier than it should.
Regarding image retention, it is still an issue. It goes away after a while, but that doesn't mean we should accept it. My point about competitive gaming stands. If you believe wholeheartedly that "plasmas are always better than lcd's," you should recognize the inconsistency with what professionals choose to use for games.
I see dithering on a 50" Panasonic ST50 set at seven feet. It's annoying. You not seeing it doesn't mean that I don't see it.
I'm trying to provide a counterpoint to plasma hype. If any of you are trying to decide on a new display, go look at a lot of them. That's the last I'll say here, since being older than most of you I don't appreciate being called a child or a fool.
FairXchange
Member
Plasma certainly lived up to the hype for me, I play games that I've already finished just to see how nice they'll look on my S60. I just wish I researched and bought a plasma the first time, would have saved me a lot on my 1st TV which was LCD and had really poor image quality.
I didn't realize that people were worried about text quality in games and movies. I guess it's better to have blurry motion smearing and far worse picture quality with LCD so we can have better looking text, right?
Maybe it's still an issue with your usage, but I've got 3 plasmas, 1 Samsung and 2 Panasonics with no image retention issues whatsoever. Do you have 5 HDTV's that you can compare and contrast in your home? I do, and it's clear to even the most oblivious person that comes into my home that the plasmas are superior in every aspect to the naked eye.
Professionals don't use LCD HDTV's either, they use monitors or CRT's like I said.
And if you're so old and wise why don't you refrain from making foolish irrelevant statements that are ignorant and stereotypical of the "plasma sucks" bandwagon. You've already admitted you have an agenda, I don't; I'm probably one of the few people on this board who has multiples of each panel technology in my home.
Everyone has different criteria for their TV's. Mine are:
1. Low input lag
2. Non-reflective screen, I won't even consider reflective TV's.
3. As large as a screen as possible within a reasonable budget.
4. No maintenance or worrying about IR.
I come from a PC background and even when I used CRT's as monitors, I could not stand refresh rates below 85hz. I welcomed LCD's with open arms, because for me, I can't stand "flickering" which is blanking between identical frames. Hence I got a E701i-A3 from Costco last year for under $1500, which is a steal for a 70" set. Everyone's impressed by how imposing it is in my living room, and it's got <30ms input lag, which greatly increases if you turn off Game mode. I NEVER turn off Game mode mind you, not even when watching netflix or Blu-rays. Can't stand all that image processing shit they do these days.
I absolutely have no issues with how it's supposed to be blurry next to plasmas. I've seen LCD's next to Plasma's in stores, and I'm really not seeing the extra blurriness in the LCD's, they all look just fine to me in terms of blur. I never have to worry about maintaining or IR as a bonus, so all's dandy.
One thing plasma is definitely better than LCD's that I notice is active ghost-free 3D, but active glasses are a dead-end technology for me, passive 4K sets with full 1080p 3D are the future in 3D tech.
1. Low input lag
2. Non-reflective screen, I won't even consider reflective TV's.
3. As large as a screen as possible within a reasonable budget.
4. No maintenance or worrying about IR.
I come from a PC background and even when I used CRT's as monitors, I could not stand refresh rates below 85hz. I welcomed LCD's with open arms, because for me, I can't stand "flickering" which is blanking between identical frames. Hence I got a E701i-A3 from Costco last year for under $1500, which is a steal for a 70" set. Everyone's impressed by how imposing it is in my living room, and it's got <30ms input lag, which greatly increases if you turn off Game mode. I NEVER turn off Game mode mind you, not even when watching netflix or Blu-rays. Can't stand all that image processing shit they do these days.
I absolutely have no issues with how it's supposed to be blurry next to plasmas. I've seen LCD's next to Plasma's in stores, and I'm really not seeing the extra blurriness in the LCD's, they all look just fine to me in terms of blur. I never have to worry about maintaining or IR as a bonus, so all's dandy.
One thing plasma is definitely better than LCD's that I notice is active ghost-free 3D, but active glasses are a dead-end technology for me, passive 4K sets with full 1080p 3D are the future in 3D tech.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Personally, it was the opposite for me.
I went from Plasma to LCD & never looked back.
I had a Panasonic plasma, but that was over 4 years ago, I felt it, at best, had charcoal blacks, low contrast & wasn't very suitable for my brightly lit room.
I also did not enjoy the noticeable dithering, plasma ghosting, image retention & buzzing sound from my set.
I also owned a Samsung plasma set temporarily & it was even worse, with the worst input lag I ever experienced.
I might have done better with a Pioneer Kuro , but that was much more expensive & still had some of the problems of the Panasonic.
There was some trade offs going with the LCD, like worse viewing angles & the blacks levels look worse in a very dimly lit room. Overall I was happier with it.
Yes it is? Plasma is generally much better for gaming, especially with fast (60fps) motion. Even the top of the line LCDs with black frame insertion pale in comparison. Input lag is another benefit, especially in cheaper displays.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Wait, this is the first I've heard of the Panny S64. I was planning on a 65" S60 in a few months. Is the S64 better? Does it cost much more?
Also, why is the ST60 65" like a grand more than the 60"? Insane.
Also, why is the ST60 65" like a grand more than the 60"? Insane.
Trogdor1123
Member
Im in the market for a new TV right now, looking for a 60 incher, or maybe 65.
Currently im on a 50 inch 720p LG Plasma thats about 4 or 5 years old and its ok i guess but there is something about it that I dont care for that i cant put my finger on.
Im looking at spening about 1500 canadian to get a TV but im unsure on what to get. Im liking the wya the LED TVs look but all this talk of plasma being better makes me wonder if im making a bad choice. To really get the benefits of plasma do you need to get the upper level units? I need some techy insight. Dont want conjecture, just want some insight into how the TVs compare at that price range. Will the next gen games benefit from it more than the Plasma or the LED? I want to attach my Computer to the TV as well.
Currently im on a 50 inch 720p LG Plasma thats about 4 or 5 years old and its ok i guess but there is something about it that I dont care for that i cant put my finger on.
Im looking at spening about 1500 canadian to get a TV but im unsure on what to get. Im liking the wya the LED TVs look but all this talk of plasma being better makes me wonder if im making a bad choice. To really get the benefits of plasma do you need to get the upper level units? I need some techy insight. Dont want conjecture, just want some insight into how the TVs compare at that price range. Will the next gen games benefit from it more than the Plasma or the LED? I want to attach my Computer to the TV as well.
S64 is the same as the S60 but it has the antiglare screen coating from the ST60 and is exclusive to Sam's Club and Costco. It's the Tv to get. I sold my 42" S60 for a 50" S64, very worth it. I only paid a $60 difference to upgrade.
50" S64 is $630 at Costco now.Baldwin_the_First
Member
I've been trying to find a good TV these days for the next gen coming up, and I've found out real fast that I have no idea what I'm doing.
I've been reading the thread and it seems I should be better with a plasma, so PLASMA it is. But where I'm having trouble, is finding that one tv where I have the best value out of it.
My budget being between 500 and 700$, any of you could recommend me one?
I currently have a 32" LCD sharp. The size don't really matter, it could vary between 32" to 40 or even 50 something. I'd just really like the best for my current budget. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks a lot Neogaf.
I've been reading the thread and it seems I should be better with a plasma, so PLASMA it is. But where I'm having trouble, is finding that one tv where I have the best value out of it.
My budget being between 500 and 700$, any of you could recommend me one?
I currently have a 32" LCD sharp. The size don't really matter, it could vary between 32" to 40 or even 50 something. I'd just really like the best for my current budget. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks a lot Neogaf.
I was thinking the Samsung 5300 or 5303 would be better because it has 1080p which will be useful for when I connect my laptop to the TV. Thank for the heads up on the Samsung.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
The new 50" Panasonics are right at your price point.
The higher end LED/LCDs are always above $1,000.
You'll rarely find out at the same price as the Panasonic.
Baldwin_the_First
Member
So earlier today I found out that the TV I had finally chosen, A Plasma 1080p Samsung PN51F5300AFXZA 51", actually got bad input lag on it.
I'm now not sure has to what to chose, I feel like it's a pretty big chore to simply chose a HDTV nowadays with all the choices and all the new technologies.
I'm now back to figuring if I want a 40" DEL, or still a plasma, and wondering if that input lag isn't that big a deal. The DEL I'm talking about is the UN40FH6030FXZA.
I HATE shopping for TVs.
I'm now not sure has to what to chose, I feel like it's a pretty big chore to simply chose a HDTV nowadays with all the choices and all the new technologies.
I'm now back to figuring if I want a 40" DEL, or still a plasma, and wondering if that input lag isn't that big a deal. The DEL I'm talking about is the UN40FH6030FXZA.
I HATE shopping for TVs.
Sadly, here in Quebec, they don't seem to be at that price range yet. Samsung is tho, which I believe are one of their top competitor.
Deciding between a 60" Panasonic S60 and ST60, and need some advice:
If I don't play FPS at all, and the "twitchiest" type of game I play are action platformers, does the "poor" 70-something ms lag on the Panasonic ST60 really matter? I currently have a 52" Samsung LCD from 2006, so I'm guessing the input lag isn't great on that either, so I may not have much, or any adjustment, to make.
There's a reward zone event at the Best Buy near me Sunday, so I'd like to make an informed decision soon. Thanks, in advance, for any help!
If I don't play FPS at all, and the "twitchiest" type of game I play are action platformers, does the "poor" 70-something ms lag on the Panasonic ST60 really matter? I currently have a 52" Samsung LCD from 2006, so I'm guessing the input lag isn't great on that either, so I may not have much, or any adjustment, to make.
There's a reward zone event at the Best Buy near me Sunday, so I'd like to make an informed decision soon. Thanks, in advance, for any help!
satterfield
BIGTIME TV MOGUL
I got a Panasonic 65" VT50 a few months back and it is godly. I didn't run slides, monitor usage, or otherwise use the TV in any way than I normally would. I watch ESPN with the logo in the corner of the screen for eight hours at a time and have never had any burn-in or image retention. I use the "game mode" while playing games and it ramps up the color/contrast and cuts back even further on input lag.
Before this TV I had another Panny plasma and abused the hell out of it (as a games journalist you have no choice) and it also had zero problems. It's now seven years old and is in the master bedroom. It still looks better than most new TVs. I will always buy Panasonic plasma.
Before this TV I had another Panny plasma and abused the hell out of it (as a games journalist you have no choice) and it also had zero problems. It's now seven years old and is in the master bedroom. It still looks better than most new TVs. I will always buy Panasonic plasma.
So I need a tv for my wiiu/ps4.
What I'm looking for:
- something to only game on
- 2d only, no extra pseudo smart tv high tech bolony features
- size doesnt really matter, in fact I dont think it CAN be bigger than 42" so anything between 32-40"
- needs to be cheap, ~600-800 USD
- if I can choose one, single, main feature of the tv it would be low input lag for fighting games.
Thankful for any suggestions <3!
What I'm looking for:
- something to only game on
- 2d only, no extra pseudo smart tv high tech bolony features
- size doesnt really matter, in fact I dont think it CAN be bigger than 42" so anything between 32-40"
- needs to be cheap, ~600-800 USD
- if I can choose one, single, main feature of the tv it would be low input lag for fighting games.
Thankful for any suggestions <3!
MicroByter
Member
Sorry if off topic, but can anyone recommend a good guide to setting up a TV for an optimal gaming experience? I've read some before, but they were more tailored towards shows/movies.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Here is some advice for everyone
if you want to buy a plasma BUY A PANASONIC!
Never buy a Samsung plasma as they are across the board inferior to Panasonic's plamsa sets.
Panasonic is pretty much the standard for plasma sets. Before it, there were several high end brands that were clearly superior (Pioneer, Fujitsu etc..), but they went bankrupt or left the plasma business several years ago.
Panasonic is the top dog right now.
You can't go wrong with Panasonic's latest 2013 line. The sets also tend to be cheap. You can get a 50" for just over $500.00 if you shop around.
The main problem with Plasma set is phosphor lag.
If you dcn't know what that is, then type in "plasma phosphor lag" in youtube & there will be several videos.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
FYi anyone looking for reference input lag, HDTVtest.co.uk did a test in June for all their set, with every TV was set to either Game mode or PC mode.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag
Suprisingly, the best tested were LCD's!
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag
Suprisingly, the best tested were LCD's!
maneil99
Member
Was going to purchase that 42 inch Panny everyone was talking about here, went to the store and did a complete 180, the dimmness of the display is a huge turn off, and the text in news shows was hard to read, now I am looking at Samsungs LCD line, any recommendations around the 42 inch mark. Netflix is a must
You'll notice the lagi n action platformers, depending on your sensitivity. Just get the 50" or 65" S64 from Costco. The ST60 isn't worth the extra money, and the S64 is an S60 with the ST60 glare reduction filter on the screen.
Ok first off, the way a TV looks in store is NOT how it looks in your house. Due to all the light etc in the store, it's going to wash out the display due to the reflectiveness of the screen. You know how your phone screen gets washed out in direct sunlight? Same concept. Also, at the store, those plasmas are only set to around 50% brightness. Calibrated you'll run it at 85-90% brightness. In your home they are VERY bright.
I appreciate the feedback. I looked into that S64 option, but they only offer a 50" and 65" version, at least online. My entertainment center won't hold a 65" set and I'd hate to downsize. Decisions, decisions.
AVSForum, search for your TV model.
Use a saw, expand your entertainment center.
Just get the 60" S60 then. As long as you keep your lighting as dim as possible, you won't have to worry about screen glare. It is definitely more of a "theater" type TV, not the kind of TV you want to leave the lights on with, or at least with a light source directly glaring onto it.
Panasonic ST/GT60. The GT is a slight upgrade and it has lower input lag. (GT is only available at 50" in EU, afaik)
I don't know about the S60, might be worth looking at too, don't think it's available in EU.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
That depends on his home. Some people have brightly lit rooms or large open windows that shine a lot of light in.