nikolino840
Member
You can see differences even with the same publisher like sega with the persona franchise and the yakuza franchise
PlayStation Boss Jim Ryan Says Publishers Don't Like Xbox Game Pass
ReBurn
Gold Member
We're talking about the impulse buy window for sure. If a game doesn't hit within the first couple of weeks publishers know that people are waiting for the first sale. That's why prices drop so fast. Most third party publishers rely on the short tail to make the most money.
So in this context value isn't really true value of the IP as much as it is how much money they can extract from buyers before they have to drop the price to continue to earn revenue.
Sub services aren't big enough yet to provide the same up-front revenue, so games don't release day 1. And that's ok. But publishers don't unanimously hate game pass because if they just hated it games would never go there.
The Alien
Banned
Another false Jim Ryan narrative. The publishers getting paid don't seem to mind the security.
Amazing how much mindshare XBox has on this site. Almost XBox obsessed. The vast majority of current threads are all XBox related. And, like this one, even the Sony articles are about Xbox.
Amazing how much mindshare XBox has on this site. Almost XBox obsessed. The vast majority of current threads are all XBox related. And, like this one, even the Sony articles are about Xbox.
Eotheod
Member
That's what I don't get. Sony has quite literally the same delivery system albeit without as much first party day one titles. So does Sony hate itself?
KrazyKrelian
Banned
I think most publishers would prefer their game to sell a bunch of copies vs be a popular download on a rental service. I doubt Microsoft is paying as much as they did for games when they first started Game Pass so it's becoming less of an attractive option for bigger publishers.
I know Microsoft won't release software sales numbers publicly, but it is becoming clear that games don't sell on their system. Either Microsoft cherry picks your game to be a well compensated showcase piece to promote their Game Pass service or failing that you would need focus selling your game on other marketplaces where you could achieve higher sales numbers.
I know Microsoft won't release software sales numbers publicly, but it is becoming clear that games don't sell on their system. Either Microsoft cherry picks your game to be a well compensated showcase piece to promote their Game Pass service or failing that you would need focus selling your game on other marketplaces where you could achieve higher sales numbers.
Luigi Mario
Member
Well, it's probably true but you won't see most big publishers openly admit that.
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Kataploom
Gold Member
Not quite, because:Most of the games released on game pass so far contradicts what he is saying. ….
Therefore, publishers and indie devs see a benefit from putting games on Game Pass. What's so difficult to understand?
So they get benefit from Game Pass.
There are many AAA and AA games on Game Pass for which MS is a bless, specially those who would just loose money because their games are not casual "cinematic experiences with outstanding set pieces".Which Publisher? Most games on Game Pass right now are mostly indies.
Xbox Game Pass Games Library | Xbox
Explore the Game Pass library and play hundreds of games.www.xbox.com
Doesn't make a difference, if anything, late stage is when games (specially AAA games) need a sales boost, that's why publishers aggressively discount them so they can get more DLC sales.
RyanEvans21
Member
If You Browse Xbox Game Pass & PS+ Extra, Extra have more AAA Than Game Pass right now.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Yet virtually every publisher uses it.
For day one releases, I'm sure a lot of most publishers are against the idea. But as part of a revenue plan over the course of all support for a title, clearly publishers by and large are huge fans. There are numerous services on PC and console that get loads of games.
For day one releases, I'm sure a lot of most publishers are against the idea. But as part of a revenue plan over the course of all support for a title, clearly publishers by and large are huge fans. There are numerous services on PC and console that get loads of games.
His point about devaluation strikes true to me.
I have PlayStation plus premium, but I still spend about £1500/yr on software for the ps5.
Yet since buying the seriesX a couple year ago, I've not bought a single game. "I'll just get it on gamespass"
I'm an upper income 40yr old, so am not price sensitive and have had 40 years of gaming to expect that games are "bought" and the associated value proposition. Yet even I have been trained not to buy games on xbox.
Kids and teens playing now are price sensitive, so this will be even more acute for them. They will be spending their entire gaming life in a world where the value perception of games is "they are free with a relatively cheap subscription", this value perception grows ever more acute the more major IP and studios microsoft swallow. In a decade that audience will be the primary spenders, and they will have been trained implicitly NOT to buy games.
Microsoft is also approaching it from a loss leader perspective paying out huge sums for games to secure them for gamespass, tho those values would still be a long way from covering development costs. The amount they are offering won't be sustained as they make it attractive in its own right with first party IP. This is all happening under the shadow of exploding development costs.
Short term I can see devs seeing benefits from it, but long term I struggle to see how it won't be hugely damaging to third party devs…unless they cram their games with other ways to monetise them after releasing on gamespass. Those disruptive forces will also make more studios more open to the relative safety of acquisition, further consolidating the market.
Anyhow, just my thoughts on it…we won't really see the real impact of this stuff for another decade.
I have PlayStation plus premium, but I still spend about £1500/yr on software for the ps5.
Yet since buying the seriesX a couple year ago, I've not bought a single game. "I'll just get it on gamespass"
I'm an upper income 40yr old, so am not price sensitive and have had 40 years of gaming to expect that games are "bought" and the associated value proposition. Yet even I have been trained not to buy games on xbox.
Kids and teens playing now are price sensitive, so this will be even more acute for them. They will be spending their entire gaming life in a world where the value perception of games is "they are free with a relatively cheap subscription", this value perception grows ever more acute the more major IP and studios microsoft swallow. In a decade that audience will be the primary spenders, and they will have been trained implicitly NOT to buy games.
Microsoft is also approaching it from a loss leader perspective paying out huge sums for games to secure them for gamespass, tho those values would still be a long way from covering development costs. The amount they are offering won't be sustained as they make it attractive in its own right with first party IP. This is all happening under the shadow of exploding development costs.
Short term I can see devs seeing benefits from it, but long term I struggle to see how it won't be hugely damaging to third party devs…unless they cram their games with other ways to monetise them after releasing on gamespass. Those disruptive forces will also make more studios more open to the relative safety of acquisition, further consolidating the market.
Anyhow, just my thoughts on it…we won't really see the real impact of this stuff for another decade.
Publishers don't like putting their games day 1 since they'll lose their sales. When most of the revenue to be made by game copies has dried up, then they'll take the bag of cash and put them on the sub service (selling a game copy at Titanfall 2 prices is really not paying anyone's salaries). It's obvious that Ryan is not talking about sub services in their totality because then he'd be damning his own service.
Success
Member
I like to have many threads like this.
This is a monumental time in gaming and you don't need to be a spoil sport.
TheGodfather07
Member
That's why they only put old games on there. How many big publishers are launching games on gamepass? It's usually indie games only.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
You misunderstood my first post. I was referring to the tweet about Jim thinking the PS5 edition of Call of duty would get botched. I do agree with him on that because Xbox does not have the best track record with QAing games from their Studios.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
This guy lmao...no wonder he didn't attend in person, he would have been castrated.
FullMetalx117
Member
you either die a hooker, or live long enough to see yourself become an Activision blizzard
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Synless
Member
Sega sold their brand new game Sonic game at half price for weeks.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
:Sony's First Party
industry
:Third party deals
ResilientBanana
Member
Well Microsoft said they love it. I'm afraid this is all heresay.
It doesn't make sense for 3rd party publishers to hate Gamepass. They are no longer competing with a platform holders 1st party games for full price retail sales. I'm sure 3rd party publishers would love not competing with GOW and Spiderman for retail sales if Sony put those day and date in a subscription.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Cryin' Jim Ryan resorting to this now?
I'm sure they love Plus though right Jimmy Boy?
I'm sure they love Plus though right Jimmy Boy?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That's why all the big AAA third party games that still sell well, are just pining to be on there day 1.
Unknown?
Member
And senior level CFOs are calling out those coders.
Nydius
Member
People are just going to dismiss this as the Sony boss trying to undermine Microsoft but it's not like he's saying something we haven't already heard before.
A simple google search on "Developer thoughts on Game Pass" brings back articles dating back to 2019 where developers are split about whether they think it's good or bad for the industry. I don't think it's as unanimous as Ryan claims, but we've heard plenty of developers raise concerns about the viability and strategy of aligning with Game Pass.
A simple google search on "Developer thoughts on Game Pass" brings back articles dating back to 2019 where developers are split about whether they think it's good or bad for the industry. I don't think it's as unanimous as Ryan claims, but we've heard plenty of developers raise concerns about the viability and strategy of aligning with Game Pass.
Yoboman
Member
Xbox software sales on multiplatform games are paltry whenever we get a view on them
It's not about Publishers not liking the money from Gamepass where it fits, it's that it Gamepass subscribers are being conditioned into not buying games. If not Gamepass day one, then don't get it or wait until it is on Gamepass one day
It's not about Publishers not liking the money from Gamepass where it fits, it's that it Gamepass subscribers are being conditioned into not buying games. If not Gamepass day one, then don't get it or wait until it is on Gamepass one day
T4keD0wN
Member
Ok what do you consider to not be a small publisher when EA, Ubisoft, SEGA and Square are all small publishers now? only Nintendo, Sony, Xbox?
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AmuroChan
Member
Context is important. He's talking about day 1 AAA releases. Obviously, a publisher wouldn't mind putting their games on GP or PS+ 12 months after release when sales have already saturated. There are examples of smaller titles that go on these services day 1 (ie. Stray), but I think it would be very rare for 3rd party publishers to ever consider putting their big AAA marquee titles on GP or PS+ day 1, even if they're getting a big fat check.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yet, we get games like Redfall.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
T4keD0wN
Member
Some of those actually do, not like it is any relevant, they still put stuff there which is something they wouldnt do at all if they "hated it".
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
And Capcom and Focus Home Entertainment and Bandai etc etc.
Hell, Capcom have 2 day 1 games coming to GP In the next couple of months.
Jim's hyperbolic statement is easy to ignore, especially since he did not cite a single example.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Nydius
Member
Indeed. I think Outriders was probably the last big third party day and date AAA surprise Game Pass will see. Well, unless you consider MLB The Show. Even Outriders bailed when it came to the DLC, which highlighted just how conditioned Game Pass only folks had become by the service. The number of people complaining on socials when it was revealed that Worldslayer wouldn't be on Game Pass was off the charts.
"nO GaMe PaSs?! nO BuY!"
Big third party AAA games want the lucrative sales money. No way WB Games would have kneecapped themselves by taking a check to put Hogwarts Legacy on Game Pass. Three years and with a DLC approaching, and Cyberpunk still isn't on either service -- and likely never will be. EA Play doesn't even put their big sellers up on EA Play day one -- games like Madden and FIFA, which rake in ridiculous amounts of recurring revenue, still have a retail sales period before they put them up on their service.
As for your comment on Stray, I'm interested in seeing what happens with it. The one year timed exclusivity ends mid-July and we already know it's gotten an ESRB rating for Xbox platforms. Will Annapurna put it on Game Pass like they put it on PS+? Or are they just going to sell it outright?
T4keD0wN
Member
What is this obsession with day1? if they hated it they would never put them there.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Because that's what they are competing with and what they don't like
They are not against subs of legacy content
Snake29
Banned
People really don't get it. He is specifically saying PUBLISHERS. Tell me one big AAA big budget game from any of the major publishers which was day on one Gamepass? I can't think of any game from Embracer, EA, Ubisoft, Capcom, Sqaure, Konami, SEGA or whatever that was on GP and not on PS. We had a few games in the more AA area, but not much.
So is he wrong? Maybe they don't hate it, well we have seen many reports in the past from different executives which didn't like GP, or having these games Day on on GP, but other then that…he is not wrong.
And Jim lying? So far he is the one laughing and spot on with his comments. It's Phil Spencer and co who are bouncing around with their reports.
So is he wrong? Maybe they don't hate it, well we have seen many reports in the past from different executives which didn't like GP, or having these games Day on on GP, but other then that…he is not wrong.
And Jim lying? So far he is the one laughing and spot on with his comments. It's Phil Spencer and co who are bouncing around with their reports.
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Nydius
Member
Many haven't.
See my above post re: Cyberpunk. Nearly three years, you'd think it would have shown up on Game Pass by now. Especially with all the trouble the game had. Taking a bag of money and getting some publicity out of it would seem like a no-brainer... yet they're not putting it up on either Game Pass or PS+. They'd rather stick with the traditional sales model even with all the issues the game has had.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Wait, so any game that isn't on game pass, to you, means that that publisher hates game pass?
oh boy ..
Wildebeest
Member
I don't like publishers and their overhyped day one pre-order BS, so I guess that now I like game pass, since the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
KrazyKrelian
Banned
Microsoft is giving sweetheart deals to Japanese games publishers in order change their image of having no good Japanese games. Its not a bad strategy, but the payday these publishers are getting now won't be as good as when Microsoft's focus changes to something else. Especially when they are not even timed exclusives like Yakuza was.
AmuroChan
Member
That's absolutely not true at all. Game sales are very front-loaded. At some point, the sales of a game plateaus and a saturation point is reached. Putting the games on a sub service later on gives the publisher an additional, supplemental revenue stream. This is analogous to a film making most of its money during its theatrical run, then transitioning to a supplemental revenue cycle via streaming license, VOD, blurays, etc.
Shuhei Yoshida explained this quite well at an interview not that long ago.
Shuhei Yoshida: "We believe in the premium release of a title" before subscriptions
At GI Live: London today, head of PlayStation Indies Shuhei Yoshida talked about Sony's approach to its revamped PS Plu…
www.gamesindustry.biz
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Ok..just stop. You donot know what an inferior experience means here. And that shrill of a dev that responded to that post, has no clue what he is taking out either. Devs can say dumb shit too you know?
The dev you quote is talking about the inferior experience with bugs and stuff... that not what Jimbo was talking about. He is talking about it lacking content. Eg, maybe a game mode is missing here but present there. A character is missing here but present there. A map or two are made available here but not there. Or the big one, devs have deadlines, and chances are, games owned by MS would put optimization priority not for the platform that has sold the most, but for their parent platform. So yes, games could actually end up releasing on both with the PS5 version releasing as the inferior version... we already see this happening now where devs prioritize PS5 versions simply because they know more of their game will sell on that platform.
Not saying we should trust anything these suits ay though, but as it stands,I would sooner take 6 out of 10 things Jimbo says than take 2 out of 10 that Spencer says.
And persona biases aside... what the man just said here is not false. I can't imagine how any publisher that has ambitions to make a 5-10M+ selling game likes the idea of gamepass.
01011001
Banned
it's sad really, poor EA being forced at gunpoint to release their yearls FIFA... uhm, sorry EA Sports FC, games on gamepass after 6 months
fallingdove
Member
Keyword "willingly". Ole Jimbo might have made an awkward comment but if you think a company like Microsoft wouldn't use their resources to make their game shine on their platform (graphics, debugging, performance, etc.) you're kidding yourself.