PlayStation boss on PS4 Pro: our approach isn't reactive this time around

Xbox went with big upgrade, Sony went with small upgrade. Let's see who plan wins. I'm putting my money on neither.
 
It boggles my mind that people think this is reactionary to Scorpio the console that as off now is just words in our eyes, yet we've seen the pro,we know all the specs,press has had time with it and it's out in two months. You wanna say Sony reacted to something? At the very least say they were alil afraid of pc, which they pretty much they were
 
Fredrik said:
I work in the electronics industry so I definitely believe in what I'm saying, the R&D cost of making a new product is enormous and if you could you would very much like to keep producing the same product for 10 years with no update in need for R&D, but you can't do that unless you have no competitors, so you react, you check what your competitors do, and you make a better product, over and over.

Sony, while leading the industry right now, obviously reacted to something, otherwise the Pro would never be here. I don't know what they reacted to though. Too weak hardware for PSVR in comparison to PCVR? NX will be more powerful or too close in performance? Too many people jumping ship to PC? Rumours of Microsoft updating XB1? I have no idea what happened but this idea didn't pop up just to have a reason to keep the price of one of their consoles at $399.
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That's not what reactive means in the context of what Andrew is referring to. It's not about the general meaning of the word. It's referring to SIE's business strategy, and in business, it carries specific connotations. PS4 Pro isn't a reaction to some unforeseen occurrence or the result of a wait and see approach. It's born of SIE looking at their own strengths, certain data, and anticipating market trends, and what they feel they need to do to better accomodate certain demographics along the PS4 roadmap. When he says it's not a reactive move, that's what he means.
 
longdi said:
Just look at the ps meeting, i love how sony when about in a low key as a matter of fact way.

No big words like apple or no hyping paper specs as if the next thing. Just facts and real demos.

This is the approach sony is taking, i feel confident they got their shit mapped out. Reactive, no way.
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Ot but those paper specs are still out performing phones that came out a year later. Even the Note 7.
 
Adam_Roman said:
Okay I've been seeing people talking shit on one particular point of the PS4Pro everywhere, so I'll just ask about this right here:

Why are people under the impression that the Scorpio will be much more powerful than this?

We haven't seen a single game running on Scorpio, right? We've just seen them say it does 4K and it has some number of teraflops. Like, I don't really understand why everyone's saying "PS4Pro won't hold a candle to Scorpio" and all this stuff. Is there something I missed? Maybe it's just because I'm PC-centric and I know just how ridiculously taxing it is to run true 4K games, but it doesn't make sense why people think either of these systems will provide much more than a resolution boost when running on a 4K TV.
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It stands to reason that with an extra year, the tech should be substantially better. But how much better, particularly by PC standards, is an open question. Will it be enough to suddenly have everything be native 4k? I have doubts.

Honestly, I'll be surprised if MS isn't using similar 4k-like strategies to get all their games to 4k on the Scorpio. As you've said, even with enthusiast hardware, stable 4k can still be a struggle on the PC side, so Scorpio, even at 6tflops will likely need some compromises. Expectations have gotten out of control for the Pro and Scorpio.
 
timlot said:
No I'm saying Sony is being complacent. By implying they don't have to be reactive to whats going on with other player in the market just reminds me of the arrogance shown in the past. What they announced yesterday wasn't impressive to me and I know they could have done better. PS4 was a prime example of a more hungry Sony. They went for the better GPU. They went for the GDDR5 ram. Folks can excuse it all they want, but I expected better.
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Arrogance/complacency/excuses/etc.

Your argument is nonsensical. You're asking for a company that was making a product to drastically change their product because another company said they would make a product someday.

Take a step back and look at this from a rational perspective. Company A is making something that is coming out in a handful of months, Company B announces that they're making something that is coming out over a year from now. Company A is not being complacent by chasing after a non-existent product. Company A is, whether you realize it or not, doing exactly what Company A is supposed to do: focus on their product and not their competitors.

The irony is that Company B -- Microsoft -- is focused on their competitor and not their own product. Once Microsoft realizes that reacting to everything Sony does is going to dig the Xbox into an even deeper hole, they'll then start to operate in a manner of leadership.
 
omgwtfbentime said:
I don't think 4k UHD is a deal breaker, but it's odd Sony, the company that also makes movies and helped create the Blu-ray standard opted out and Microsoft opted in. They're right, most people do stream, but perhaps those interested in BDUHD would have got a Pro for that capability.
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UHDBR is a non-issue to me. Last time I bought a blue ray movie was when I was camping outside Target waiting for the PS3 release. I do know however that I would've preferred a UHDBR player over lets say the 1Tb HDD. I also do know that at $400, the 1Tb HDD PS4PRO gives them more profit over a $400 UHDBR, 500Gb PS4PRO.
 
It's time for Microsoft to play on Sony's mistakes. first to start with "You don't have to buy a 4K TV to see the difference"
 
Hate to admit it, but he's right. The future is not in physical UHDBR discs. The market that buys physical blu-ray discs is shrinking every day. I use to be one of those (still have a decent blu-ray collection), and I haven't bought a new blu-ray in years.
 
Verendus said:
There's no implication in Andrew's words that Sony doesn't need to be reactive. Pro has been in the works for over two years, and is a clear part of the natural progression the company sees for its platform. PS4 is slowly entering the part of its lifecyle where it will appeal to more price conscious consumers, but at the same time, this generation has clearly displayed that developers require more time to truly take advantage of the hardware they have. A lesson that is somewhat being carried over from the previous generation. This means the generation isn't going to be short, and for it to make sense for us and publishing partners, we have to think on the macrolevel of allowing them to take advantage of things for an extended period of time while not allowing the technology to stagnate as much as it did last generation. It's also a step for us and our developers to the next big thing.

That's what PS4 Pro represents. It's a console that the first party teams will take good advantage of, and all third parties will be use to some varying degree. It's there for the enthusiasts who want the added power and increased visual fidelity, but it's also priced sensibly enough that those who tend to sit on the fence will inevitably have their eyes move in that direction as time goes on. That is foresight, and it's very much the same hungry Sony.

What exactly would be the purpose to react to a console we've become aware of recently, and isn't going to be launched for another year? I don't see Scorpio, and think it's a potential problem. I see it, and know they were caught unaware. The difference is not significant enough to give pause. It's them reacting to what has been done, and trying to undermine the PS4 Pro in advance of its launch.

But we have the largest userbase. Publishers will cater to us first. PS4 Pro isn't going to be neglected in favor of Scorpio. Maybe there'll be some Scorpio games that look better than some of the PS4 Pro games, but it'll mean little in the grand scheme of things. It's clear to me that they made a desperate move, and they're planning on releasing it towards the end of 2017. By the time it launches, Pro will have sold between 5-10 million consoles. And by the time it starts getting into the swing of things, PS5 will be on the horizon and the leap between them will be significant because it will represent a generational leap. The only losers in this scenario will be the few Scorpio buyers who buy into the late move by Microsoft, because it's not only late, but it's also not significant enough that those who have bought the PS4 Pro will somehow feel like they've lost out.

As Denzel puts it. This is chess, not checkers. And Microsoft played themselves because Sony is too busy playing with God.
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This post perfectly sums up why Sony is in nose dive mode right now.
 
Lack of 4K Blu-Ray on a console designed to drive home 4K and Andrew House explaining why it isn't on the system. Preaching and slamming the advantages of what you're trying to sell and get people to adopt in order to take advantage of it. Sense a massive amount of friction in what they're trying to accomplish or who they're selling it to.
 
jaaz said:
Hate to admit it, but he's right. The future is not in physical UHDBR discs. The market that buys physical blu-ray discs is shrinking every day. I use to be one of those (still have a decent blu-ray collection), and I haven't bought a new blu-ray in years.
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Until internet infrastructures and datacap limits improve (aside from the loss of fidelity) streaming is not possible for a huge segment of people
 
RichiRamjag said:
If power mattered all that much, then why aren't we all PC gamers? Why don't we all drive muscle cars? Why do iPhones do so well against more powerful android devices? Again... It matters to some, to some it doesn't. You're always going to have casuals and enthusiasts. This is a silly hill to die on. The thing has a year long headstart so it doesn't even matter tbh. It has no competition in that space console-wise.
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Cost? Money? Lack of?

Trust me man. I've seen nothing on this site at the start of the gen and after about Flops and % of power more the PS4 has over the X1 and all that. More people care about console power than you'd think.

And yes, Pro has a head start. I smell a tide turning myself. At least here in the states. Where people love their power.
 
lol. That passive aggressive comment OP.

Thing is he is right. Nothing about the Pro has been reactive in the slightest. If it were, the features and price would be much higher.

I think they're focusing on games, which is the right thing to do.
 
Omnistalgic said:
I disagree completely and think house is spot on with streaming and digital being a big trend. I think the outcry for a 4K player is coming purely for forums, which is not representative of the majority of the userbase.

Blu-Ray looks just fine for most people and honestly so does streaming and digital.

When/if a higher player matters will be years from now and Sony can adjust accordingly.
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Did you missed the /s?
 
CrazE said:
Cost? Money? Lack of?

Trust me man. I've seen nothing on this site at the start of the gen and after about Flops and % of power more the PS4 has over the X1 and all that. More people care about console power than you'd think.

And yes, Pro has a head start. I smell a tide turning myself. At least here in the states. Where people love their power.
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Do you also think a ton of people care about UHD blu-rays, based on this forum?
 
CrazE said:
Cost? Money? Lack of?

Trust me man. I've seen nothing on this site at the start of the gen and after about Flops and % of power more the PS4 has over the X1 and all that. More people care about console power than you'd think.

And yes, Pro has a head start. I smell a tide turning myself. At least here in the states. Where people love their power.
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Ok, I trust you (someone I don't know) and your evidence (anecdotal based on what you've read on a message board). You've got all the answers man. Cheers!
 
CrazE said:
Cost? Money? Lack of?

Trust me man. I've seen nothing on this site at the start of the gen and after about Flops and % of power more the PS4 has over the X1 and all that. More people care about console power than you'd think.

And yes, Pro has a head start. I smell a tide turning myself. At least here in the states. Where people love their power.
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Yet the iPhone sells tons.
 
It's smart business for sony to not include 4k bluray. Lower price and better profit margins. People that truly care are miniscule everyone else will like the "4k" gaming and streaming.

What apple does with the audio jack is far more drastic as they weren't dying like phyisical media and even they will be more than fine.
 
Blackleg-sanji1 said:
Yet the iPhone sells tons.
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Exactly. It's a silly discussion at this point.

Diprosalic said:
It's smart business for sony to not include 4k bluray. Lower price and better profit margins. People that truly care are miniscule everyone else will like the "4k" gaming and streaming.

What apple does with the audio jack is far more drastic as they weren't dying like phyisical media and even they will be more than fine.
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With that said, Sony is removing the 3.5 jack for a lightning. :p
 
timlot said:
What they announced yesterday wasn't impressive to me and I know they could have done better. PS4 was a prime example of a more hungry Sony. They went for the better GPU. They went for the GDDR5 ram. Folks can excuse it all they want, but I expected better.
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They did very well yesterday. PS4 Pro is exactly the revision of the PS4 with 2016 hardware. Same price, same room for price cuts in 2017. Few smart modifications like the checkerboard renderer in hardware. All in all compromised but good enough in a truly console like fashion.
Scorpio is even in 2017 further up the high end curve and it will be a 500$ scorpio vs a 300$ PS4 with a graphical difference in DF territory.
 
jedivulcan said:
Lack of 4K Blu-Ray on a console designed to drive home 4K and Andrew House explaining why it isn't on the system. Preaching and slamming the advantages of what you're trying to sell and get people to adopt in order to take advantage of it. Sense a massive amount of friction in what they're trying to accomplish or who they're selling it to.
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PS4 Pro is not meant to drive 4K TV sales or 4K BD sales or 4K Audio bar sales or 4K Cameras sales or 4K screen Mobile sales.

It is supposed to be best PS4 for the money.

They dropped trying to make people buy other Sony hardware since people were not doing that. People bought whatever they wanted to buy.

Instead they cater to their Playstation audience - the gamer. They gave their gamers free HDR update and they are giving them cheap 4K gaming machine.

And as their own data shows, people stream movies on PS4 not watch BD's. It makes no sense in making everyone pay extra $50 for BD than 2% might use. Those days are gone and thats why Sony is winning.

As to the Scorpio, does it even exist right now in real world? Who knows what will happen 12-13 months from now when it is supposed to come out. CEO can change and priority could change, it is long way out and Microsoft only "talked" about it to counter Sony coming our with PS4 Pro 12 months before them.
 
Curufinwe said:
That question is answered in the article.

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...o-our-approach-isnt-reactive-this-time-around
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Ah, so a reactive approach, but to PC gaming.

Personal opinion here, I'm mainly a PC gamer myself nowadays because consoles are too weak but I'm not afraid to switch back, but for this new strategy to work I think they need to have graphics settings sliders. The 4K30fps update or in some cases a choice to go with 4K~30 or 1080p~45 fps aren't helping much. Personally I think higher framerates are of bigger importance than 4K resolution so if you can't scale things back to get higher framerates then PC gaming will keep on being more attractive even if the box is fully capable of locked 60fps.
 
About that power talk. I think power is important, as well as price, library and timing. We all knew that.
Being most powerful might not win the console race, but it's very important for Xbox to not be under power again. So, that one step into right direction.
We don't know about the price but MS seems to willing to subsidize the cost lately and they are more than capable to do that.
They miss the boat for early or simutously release, how much that one year lead going to cost, MS of all company have the best idea.
And finally the library. I think we all agree that's a lot of ground to cover, missing that Japanese support make things hard for them outside US and UK.
First party studios while output are consistent but not really doing good job expending audience, not without the help of thrid party studios.

But hey, it serve their loyal fan base well, that's a solid foundation to build upon. Expand into PC market, unify platform also serve an opportunity to draw new costumes into the ecosystem.
It's a great and focus direction, customers are happy, bright future ahead.
 
Jack The Nipper said:
Seems like they think they can win it out lke this. May end a costly move in some ways
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In what ways? By the time the scorpio drops, Sony will lead in all markets by millions. Its the premiere console with the most releases and that dominating market position will ensure that ps4 will continue to get all the goodies, both eastern developed and western developed.
 
Nah, I don't want games AND film clogging up my harddrive. If I run out of physical space, I can get rid some of my unwanted collection and be compensated.

I can't believe we're actually talking about this BS after Sony made steps in the right direction at the beginning of the gen.

I like digital as a backup from a code with my BR purchase stored in a cloud. Not PSN movies on my Harddrive, no thank you very much.
 
The only part that I think legitimately caught Sony by surprise was the Xbox One S having 4K Blu-Ray.

Remember, when Sony would have been planning the Pro and the Slim and they were well and truly into pushing Vue and Now and 4K adoption was fuck all. They probably also assumed Microsoft wouldn't want to incur the cost of putting 4K into a console already struggling to keep up.
 
MoonsaultSlayer said:
Nah, I don't want games AND film clogging up my harddrive. If I run out of physical space, I can get rid some of my unwanted collection and be compensated.

I can't believe we're actually talking about this BS after Sony made steps in the right direction at the beginning of the gen.

I like digital as a backup from a code with my BR purchase stored in a cloud. Not PSN movies on my Harddrive, no thank you very much.
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Can't store videos on the PS4 hard drive like you could on PS3, every digital video is either streamed or played back from the media player from a flash drive.
 
Collingwood said:
The only part that I think legitimately caught Sony by surprise was the Xbox One S having 4K Blu-Ray.

Remember, Sony would have been planning the Pro and the Slim and they were well and truly into pushing Vue and Now and 4K adoption was fuck all. They probably also assumed Microsoft wouldn't want to incur the cost of putting 4K into a console already struggling to keep up.
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You know what I can believe this one. Microsoft did good on that part no one can deny that
 
timlot said:
Not reactive uh. So basically...
"The next generation doesn't start until we say it does," said Hirai. - http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/08/technology/ps3_pricing/index.htm
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?? That's not at all what that means, maybe you're wishing it to be that way? "Arrogant Sony" was in complete denial, telling people you couldn't find PS3s on shelves when they were everywhere, that they only made expensive shit for premium customers, that their nightmare architecture was there to attract only the best coders or some other BS.

This is nothing like that, or even a shade of it, though in this case the start of generational refreshes is going to start with them.
 
Jack The Nipper said:
Anyways, if games are looking more like those old promises we had with watch dogs and such on the exclusives why would people not want it?
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Some will, sure. But the short answer is that most people will already have a machine they spent ~$300 to ~$400 on and are in no rush to drop another $400+ for graphical upgrades. Next gen? Sure. Right now? Some. We don't know how many that 'some' is yet, but it's not like people are dying for a new gen right now, this one is still in high gear. Most people do not need to be 'cutting edge', and most people consider spending $400 a luxury device to be a luxury.

EDIT: lol, i started to answer that question about /s and then decided the question itself had to be /s.
 
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