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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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Sorry dood. Sipp E. Cupp is an idiot.

It's crazy that there's so much religious talk brought out by the Higgs bosun or "God Particle." It isn't named that for any religious reason, they wanted to call it the "Goddamn Particle," but that obviously wasn't acceptable in 1964.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
1. My understanding is that the current nickname of "god particle" didn't come from them at all.

2. Something is wrong with SE Cupp and I can't put my finger on it. If I gave a shit I'd read her biography and discover how she was raised (her dad being a born again christian is like a flare on the side of the road for traveling psychoanalysts), but seriously, there's just some air she puts on that isn't quite believable.

3. Read this, by Chait, about the next step of Obama campaign against Romney (first define, then attach):

Robert Draper’s New York Times Magazine story about Priorities USA Action, the pro-Obama super-PAC, is the most interesting political story of the week. One takeaway from Draper’s story is that Priorities USA really does have a big role in the campaign. The tepid pace of the recovery suggests that Obama can’t run on a “look what we did” platform. He can only persuade Americans that Mitt Romney won’t make things better.

And here Priorities USA has a central role. Most voters have well-defined opinions about Obama. Romney is the variable here. And undecided voters have almost no opinion about him whatsoever:

While conducting a different focus group — this one with non-college-educated Milwaukee voters on the eve of Wisconsin’s April 3 primary — Burton and Sweeney were surprised to learn that even after Romney had spent months campaigning, many in the group could not recognize his face, much less characterize his positions.​

In the same passage, Draper explains that Burton and Sweeney couldn’t effectively sell voters on Romney’s support of the Ryan plan, since cutting Medicare in order to clear budgetary headroom for tax cuts for the rich, while an accurate description of the Ryan plan, struck those voters as so cartoonishly evil that they found the charge implausible. (“[T]he respondents simply refused to believe any politician would do such a thing.”)

I wouldn’t overread this and assume that the Republicans have found the ultimate wormhole, advocating policies so outlandishly unpopular that opponents can’t persuade voters they’re real. Clearly it is possible to run against the Ryan plan. (Kathy Hochul used that theme to win in a Republican-leaning district last year.) But I think the Priorities research shows that the crucial first step is to introduce and define Romney. The basic theme of Romney as a super-rich guy who sees the world through the lens of his own class seems like a powerful and roughly accurate one. The attacks on Romney’s business career fit with the theme. I’m sure there will be more attacks on Romney’s secretive finances — Obama’s campaign keeps dropping the phrase “Swiss bank account” because, I would wager, focus groups find it a little suspicious.

Once they’ve established that frame for voters to understand Romney, then they have set the stage for a closing attack that focuses on the policy contrast. (Or so I have argued.)

One odd thing is that Romney has done so little to insulate himself against this line of attack. George W. Bush framed his entire campaign persona in 2000 so as to protect himself from charges of looking out for the rich — he called himself a compassionate conservative, he falsely claimed his tax cuts disproportionately benefitted the poor, he surrounded himself with cultural symbols of the middle class. Romney is a very rich man running on a platform of helping other rich people and doing almost nothing to deflect the most obvious political attack. (He is withholding the details of his tax plan to enable him to claim he won’t decrease the tax share of the rich, but that’s almost certainly wrong, and likely nobody is going to believe him.) I’ve defended Romney’s general strategy of complaining about the economy and keeping his alternatives as vague as possible. But the lack of defense against an obvious and seemingly quite potent attack is more than a little curious.
 

Diablos

Member
Wow, S.E. Cupp is one self-loathing atheist. She doesn't even want to see one of her own become President someday? And she "aspires" to be religious?

Either she's really stupid or completely full of crap and playing it safe to look good on television.

I am disappoint, Ms. Cupp. You represent us non-religious folks poorly.
 
In the same passage, Draper explains that Burton and Sweeney couldn’t effectively sell voters on Romney’s support of the Ryan plan, since cutting Medicare in order to clear budgetary headroom for tax cuts for the rich, while an accurate description of the Ryan plan, struck those voters as so cartoonishly evil that they found the charge implausible. (“[T]he respondents simply refused to believe any politician would do such a thing.”)

This kills me. It reminds me of that Simpsons scene when they are watching a movie with a villain and Homer says "It's just a movie, son. There's nobody that evil in real life" and then they cut to Mr. Burns laughing maniacally at the guy hanging from the scaffold.
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Exactly. Gingrich gave a whopping 2.6% of his 3.1 million of 2010 earnings to charity. In four years Santorum couldn't crack 3%. And to think these people are considered the "true Christians".

and the Bidens gave even less than that.

Politicians and true Christians rarely mix.
 

Chumly

Member
and the Bidens gave even less than that.

Politicians and true Christians rarely mix.

Biden doesn't go around parroting himself as the true christian politician. Nor does he think its bad for his taxes to help the needy. So why again did you make that terrible comparison?
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Biden doesn't go around parroting himself as the true christian politician. Nor does he think its bad for his taxes to help the needy. So why again did you make that terrible comparison?

Neither has Gingrich.

Funny that cartoon_soldier makes the bigger of the cop-outs by saying that Biden makes far less than the other two mentioned. Biden is in the "1%" and many of the poorest states in the country have the highest instances of charitable giving as a percentage of income. The real problem in the country stems from the fact that the church is no longer the center of any community. With no outlet for charitable giving, the only time most people give is when a natural disaster happens in some economically distressed country or community.
 

Chumly

Member
Neither has Gingrich.

Funny that cartoon_soldier makes the bigger of the cop-outs by saying that Biden makes far less than the other two mentioned. Biden is in the "1%" and many of the poorest states in the country have the highest instances of charitable giving as a percentage of income. The real problem in the country stems from the fact that the church is no longer the center of any community. With no outlet for charitable giving, the only time most people give is when a natural disaster happens in some economically distressed country or community.

I repeat it for you again......... Biden supports helping the poor with taxes and supports raising taxes on himself. The reason why the church isn't at the center of the community is because its been infiltrated by a bunch of fake ass Christians under the republican banner that don't give to the church or poor.
 
Neither has Gingrich.

Funny that cartoon_soldier makes the bigger of the cop-outs by saying that Biden makes far less than the other two mentioned. Biden is in the "1%" and many of the poorest states in the country have the highest instances of charitable giving as a percentage of income. The real problem in the country stems from the fact that the church is no longer the center of any community. With no outlet for charitable giving, the only time most people give is when a natural disaster happens in some economically distressed country or community.

You missed me defending Santorum too.
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
You missed me defending Santorum too.

I make no excuses for anyone that doesn't give a large portion of their income, especially people as wealthy as these excuses for human beings, to charity. That is why I said True Christians and Politicians rarely mix.

Supporting raising taxes on yourself does not equate to charity, by the way. Unless the money is specifically devoted to welfare, medicaid, social security/disability, etc, than your taxes are just as easily going to building more drones as it is to helping someone in need.

I am all for raising taxes, I have said as much perhaps moreso than anyone in these threads (as I am for raising taxes across all tax brackets), but doing so in the guise that it is a replacement for charity is not good.
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Really? This would imply that people used to give more, perhaps a lot more, yes?

*goes to check statistics*

*I may or may not be talking out of my ass.

I am more concerned by the ideal that raising taxes is going to benefit the poor by way of increased government charity and is equatable to charitable giving.

"Sure, I don't donate to charity, but I wouldn't mind my taxes being raised. Being forced to do something is so much better than actually wanting to do something!"
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
*I may or may not be talking out of my ass.

I am more concerned by the ideal that raising taxes is going to benefit the poor by way of increased government charity and is equatable to charitable giving.

"Sure, I don't donate to charity, but I wouldn't mind my taxes being raised. Being forced to do something is so much better than actually wanting to do something!"

I think this argument got turned around at some point: the initial point was that there are people who claim that we don't need taxes for social programs because voluntary charity would be sufficient in supplying for people.
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
I think this argument got turned around at some point: the initial point was that there are people who claim that we don't need taxes for social programs because voluntary charity would be sufficient in supplying for people.

I suppose it has.


We do need taxes for social programs, in fact, we need MORE taxes for social programs, but there is simply no substitute for charity. The sad fact that the wealthier a person gets almost exclusively makes them greedier is a sad reality. I give more than 10% of my income to charity every year, but I could see if I were ridiculously wealthy as many of these people are, I would be devoting 15 or 20% easily.
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
No worries, you just made me curious. Turns out it's hard to find this kind of statistic. And the sources I did find sort of conflict, one showing that charitable giving as a percentage of GDP has trended upward over the last century, one showing that charitable giving has held relatively steady since 1969.

Yeah, while digging, it looks like it is mostly holding steady, but also correlates strongly with the increase and decrease of personal income. More interesting to me is that Religious donations are skyrocketing around the country. NY Times 2009 report Whereas donations fell by the largest rate in 50 years, they are raising faster than ever for religious institutions. This despite declining participation rates in nearly every church around the country.

To cover for my horrible lack of accuracy, I am now insinuating that religious people are making up the difference for all the other slackers around the country. Heathens!
 
I suppose it has.


We do need taxes for social programs, in fact, we need MORE taxes for social programs, but there is simply no substitute for charity. The sad fact that the wealthier a person gets almost exclusively makes them greedier is a sad reality. I give more than 10% of my income to charity every year, but I could see if I were ridiculously wealthy as many of these people are, I would be devoting 15 or 20% easily.

Do you give money to your horrible church? Because money given to the Mormon Church does nobody any good.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Yeah, while digging, it looks like it is mostly holding steady, but also correlates strongly with the increase and decrease of personal income. More interesting to me is that Religious donations are skyrocketing around the country. NY Times 2009 report Whereas donations fell by the largest rate in 50 years, they are raising faster than ever for religious institutions. This despite declining participation rates in nearly every church around the country.

To cover for my horrible lack of accuracy, I am now insinuating that religious people are making up the difference for all the other slackers around the country. Heathens!

I wonder if that's because churches are providing more service to the poor, or because they're getting more involved in politics.
 

Chumly

Member
I suppose it has.


We do need taxes for social programs, in fact, we need MORE taxes for social programs, but there is simply no substitute for charity. The sad fact that the wealthier a person gets almost exclusively makes them greedier is a sad reality. I give more than 10% of my income to charity every year, but I could see if I were ridiculously wealthy as many of these people are, I would be devoting 15 or 20% easily.

So then we agree? Charity can never take the place of social programs. I find it hypocritical for politicians to argue that we don't need social programs and that people should ask for charity if they need it but they themselves don't give to charity.
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
So then we agree? Charity can never take the place of social programs. I find it hypocritical for politicians to argue that we don't need social programs and that people should ask for charity if they need it but they themselves don't give to charity.

Of course we agree!
 

Chichikov

Member
The sad fact that the wealthier a person gets almost exclusively makes them greedier is a sad reality.
I think you're mixing cause and effect here -
Getting rich doesn't necessarily makes you greedy, it's being greedy that makes you more likely to be rich.
In fact, I know a bunch of people who got really rich though startups, and I don't think a single one of them became more greedy.

I think the issue is that we stopped treating greed as a deadly sin, and we have a major political party getting damn close to putting "greed is good" in its platform.
And corrupt church leaders enable that anti-Christian nonsense.
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
I think you're missing cause and effect here -
Getting rich doesn't necessarily makes you greedy, it's the being greedy that makes you more likely to be rich.
In fact, I know a bunch of people who got really rich though startups, and I don't think a single one of them became more greedy.

I think the issue is that we stopped treating greed as a deadly sin, and we have a major political party getting damn close to putting "greed is good" in its platform.
And corrupt church leaders enable that anti-Christian nonsense.

Truth.
 
Exactly. Gingrich gave a whopping 2.6% of his 3.1 million of 2010 earnings to charity. In four years Santorum couldn't crack 3%. And to think these people are considered the "true Christians".
Is that before or after tithing (if they do that, which they may not)?
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
http://dailykos.com/story/2012/07/0...in-the-War-on-Voting-The-Mississippi-Catch-22

Good gravy. It's exactly the kind of catch-22 shit that I had to deal with when I tried to apply for welfare. I wasn't eligible because I didn't have access to my birth certificate, but I tried to convince them to accept my green card, which shows where I was born, and I wouldn't have gotten if I didn't at some point show the state my birth certificate!

Wouldn't be surprised if the Republicans were the ones who implemented that requirement here in Cali.
 

Clevinger

Member
Or it could be his idea of a joke, like how he pretended that the ladies he was taking a picture with grabbed his ass.

He's a weird dude.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
It's just Romney being weird. He's just an odd dude, that's all. There's much worse to get after him about.

It's not like I think this is a line that the Obama camp should be using against Romney or something. I just thought it was funny.
 

Diablos

Member
This is a pretty damn upsetting article about the voter ID situation in Pennsylvania. It's pretty infuriating that the GOP is resorting to this to secure victory.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...-changing-the-electoral-landscape.php?ref=fpa

So how many states are sticking with this?
Around 9 or so iirc? Not sure.

But I'm really upset that this law could unfairly throw my state in the GOP column. They couldn't gerrymander it, so I guess this was the best they could do.
 
I'm starting to believe Romney will win PA unless that law is overturned. And if he can eek out a win in Ohio he'll certainly win the White House
 

Diablos

Member
I'm starting to believe Romney will win PA unless that law is overturned. And if he can eek out a win in Ohio he'll certainly win the White House
I just don't know. Allegheny County + Philly alone are usually enough to carry the state. Plus a lot of eastern PA areas are trending Democratic. This is just such a big question mark though, as we've never had to deal with this before.
 
I'm starting to believe Romney will win PA unless that law is overturned. And if he can eek out a win in Ohio he'll certainly win the White House

It's not as big a deal as you'd think. The areas most prone to be affected by this (the areas with high minority concentration like Philly and Pittsburgh) go dem by such overwhelming margins that its not likely to matter.

It's shitty and reprehensible, but will not make a big deal in the long run.
 
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