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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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P

pigeon

Banned
speculawyer said:
http://news.yahoo.com/iran-redux-could-killing-us-ambassador-sway-presidential-171403533.html


I wonder if this was a mistake by them or yet another intentional distortion of reality. If it was intentional, this campaign is just a bunch of asshole liars. The out-of-context 'you didn't build that', the out-right welfare work requirement lie, and now this (intentional?) timeline distortion? Fucking assholes.
Click to expand...

I actually specifically left out the actual left-wing blogs to make the point, but they're even more intense.

Michael Tomasky said:
If he is factually wrong about the first statement happening "after the breach," then this press conference, mark my words, will go down in history as a textbook disaster. Chuck Dodd is being professional but clearly can't believe what we just saw. Amazing, with four people dead, and two not even yet named publicly, that Romney would do this.

This is his meltdown moment, like McCain suspending his campaign. As someone just tweeted: "I mean, seriously. Mitt Romney's first statement after an ambassador was killed was to attack the President over tweets?"
Click to expand...

Sununu saying it was a bad idea is basically completely unbelievable to me, though.
 
D

Diablos

Member
kaching said:
Even Sununu? Wow.
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Wow, even he admitted Romney done fucked up?

Okay maybe I need to backpedal like PD.

But I just can't help but think the electorate will go full herp derp if the GOP gets desperate enough to run with this shit at some point. Romney has already demonstrated that he's ready to.

The last time this type of thing happened in 1979 it did not bode well for Democrats, and yes I know Obama isn't Carter but you can't help but have some unease about the situation.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
When +90% of the Republican party either ignores or backs away from your comments and you find yourself being agreed with by the likes of Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, and Bill Kristol, you're doing something wrong.


Romney said a variation of the word "apology" SEVEN times during his little press conference this morning. That's basically his entire foreign policy argument, continuing the "apology tour" argument that has already been pointed out as a lie by everyone
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
If we are accusing Obama of apologizing, then why is this in the talking points that cartoon soldier linked too:

– Governor Romney rejects the reported message of the movie. There is no room for religious hatred or intolerance.

– If pressed: Governor Romney repudiated this individual in 2010 when he attempted to mobilize a Quran-burning movement. He is firmly against any expression of religious hatred or intolerance.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/12/romney-camp-tries-to-manage-fallout-from-libya-response/
Click to expand...

Sounds like apologizing to me.

Also the reason why the smirk will get play is because that is what some individuals focus on. Just like when Gore sighed in his debates with Bush. People picked up on it and thought correctly that he didn't respect his opponent. This is also seen in the right wing who take Obama's stutters, when he is talking and thinking at the same time, as proof that he needs a teleprompter to do anything. (But I would say this is probably more of a counter reaction to when liberals thought Bush was dumb.) Also the smirk shows that he didn't pass politic 101 which is when to turn on the empathy and when to be fake.

Also guys, imagine what Romney's response would have been if the attack occurred on our own soil.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Officerrob said:
When +90% of the Republican party either ignores or backs away from your comments and you find yourself being agreed with by the likes of Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, and Bill Kristol, you're doing something wrong.
Click to expand...

<Kosmo>When the intellectual, influential thought leaders in your party support you, I'd think you're doing something right.</Kosmo>
 
S

Snake

Member
This move sure seems like something Romney strongly believed in doing as opposed to a carefully considered campaign decision. It ties in directly with his 8-year-long foreign policy rationale for being President, and underscores just how empty and despicable that rationale is.

If so, expect leaks from his team to come out saying "We strongly advised against this. We aren't this stupid so please please hire us again in the future."
 
B

bananas

Banned
Diablos said:
Wow, even he admitted Romney done fucked up?

Okay maybe I need to backpedal like PD.

But I just can't help but think the electorate will go full herp derp if the GOP gets desperate enough to run with this shit at some point. Romney has already demonstrated that he's ready to.

The last time this type of thing happened in 1979 it did not bode well for Democrats, and yes I know Obama isn't Carter but you can't help but have some unease about the situation.
Click to expand...

The American electorate don't elect desperate people. They want people who stand the high ground. Obama has shown he knows how to act time and time again. And Romney is looking like McCain did when he suspended his campaign four years ago.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
PantherLotus said:
do you guys talk back to Rush when you're secretly listening too?
Click to expand...

CharlieDigital said:
I yell at the radio whenever I hear a Romney saying something retarded. While listening to NPR.

I think I would die of a heart attack if I listened to Rush.
Click to expand...

Cyan said:
Oh all the time. "lol Rush where is teh substance? That's not logical!" And so on.
Click to expand...

Copernicus said:
I let out audible huhs and wtfs all the time.
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B-Dubs said:
I do it whenever someone says something dumb.
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And this is why Kosmo will always have a receptive audience on PoliGAF
 
E

ErasureAcer

Banned
PPP: Gay Marriage ban a toss up in MN. 48% support amending constitution to ban. 47% will vote no to not write hate into our highest law.

Vote No has the money lead so hopefully that helps.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Diablos said:
The last time this type of thing happened in 1979 it did not bode well for Democrats, and yes I know Obama isn't Carter but you can't help but have some unease about the situation.
Click to expand...

It's not a good comparison at all, for reasons that have already been stated in this thread.

If anything, this gives Obama a political opportunity, although I regret mentioning it on such a day. But if they manage to catch and arrest or kill the culprits before the election, it'll be an example of Obama's foreign policy toughness.
 
S

Slime

Banned
Snake said:
This move sure seems like something Romney strongly believed in doing as opposed to a carefully considered campaign decision. It ties in directly with his 8-year-long foreign policy rationale for being President, and underscores just how empty and despicable that rationale is.

If so, expect leaks from his team to come out saying "We strongly advised against this. We aren't this stupid so please please hire us again in the future."
Click to expand...

Romney's going rogue.
 
F

Forever

Banned
http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/foreign-policy-hands-voice-disbelief-at-romney-cai

Mitt Romney's sharply-worded attack on President Obama over a pair of deadly riots in Muslim countries last night has backfired badly among foreign policy hands of both parties, who cast it as hasty and off-key, released before the facts were clear at what has become a moment of tragedy.

Romney keyed his statement to the American Embassy in Cairo's condemnation of an anti-Muslim video that served as the trigger for the latest in a series of regional riots over obscure perceived slights to the faith. But his statement — initially embargoed to avoid release on September 11, then released yesterday evening anyway — came just before news that the American Ambassador to Libya had been killed and broke with a tradition of unity around national tragedies, and of avoiding hasty statements on foreign policy. It was the second time Romney has been burned by an early statement on a complex crisis: Romney denounced the Obama Administration's handling of a Chinese dissident's escape just as the Administration negotiated behind the scenes for his departure from the country.

"They were just trying to score a cheap news cycle hit based on the embassy statement and now it’s just completely blown up," said a very senior Republican foreign policy hand, who called the statement an "utter disaster" and a "Lehman moment" — a parallel to the moment when John McCain, amid the 2008 financial crisis, failed to come across as a steady leader.

He and other members of both parties cited the Romney campaign's recent dismissals of foreign policy's relevance. One adviser dismissed the subject to BuzzFeed as a "shiny object," while another told Politico that the subject was the "president's turf," drawing a rebuke from Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol.

"I guess we see now that it is because they’re incompetent at talking effectively about foreign policy," said the Republican. "This is just unbelievable — when they decide to play on it they completely bungle it."

Romney has not backed off the response — "It's never too early for the United States government to condemn attacks on Americans and to defend our values," he said Wednesday — but his campaign faces a near consensus in Republican foreign policy circles that, whatever the sentiment, Romney faltered badly.

"It’s deeply unfortunate when the circumstance of the statement becomes the story," said Rick Perry's former foreign policy adviser, Victoria Coates, who is now an adjunct fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, and who suggested that Romney should simply have "gone earlier rather than save it for midnight" to avoid appearing to play politics on September 11. "It’s unfortunate that it’s playing out this way, and hopefully they can get back on message, because their point is sound," she said.

Other conservatives were less sympathetic.

"It's bad," said a former aide to Senator John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign. "Just on a factual level that the statement was not a response but preceding, or one could make the case precipitating. And just calling it a 'disgrace' doesn't really cut it. Not ready for prime time."

A third Republican, a former Bush State Department official, told BuzzFeed, "It wasn't presidential of Romney to go political immediately — a tragedy of this magnitude should be something the nation collectively grieves before politics enters the conversation."
Click to expand...
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
Just thought of something. Imagine during the town hall debates this happens.

Constituent A: "I lost my house ..."

LMStZ.jpg


Constituent B: "I lost my job ...."

LMStZ.jpg


Constituent C: "I lost my life savings ..."

LMStZ.jpg


Constituent D: "I lost my medical insurance ..."

LMStZ.jpg
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Diablos said:
The last time this type of thing happened in 1979...
Click to expand...
You'll have to explain to me how this incident and a 1.5 year long standoff with terrorists holding more than 50 hostages in the balance are in any way the same "type of thing" other than in the heavily generalized "acts of terrorism" sense.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Any other recent VA polls out there?

kaching said:
You'll have to explain to me how this incident and a 1.5 year long standoff with terrorists holding more than 50 hostages in the balance are in any way the same "type of thing" other than in the heavily generalized "acts of terrorism" sense.
Click to expand...
It's an attack on an embassy and a perception by some of Obama's opponents that he helped these people carry out their plans, and that's more than enough for the media and Romney to try and come up with a narrative that says he's a pussy when it comes to foreign policy. Will it work? I don't know yet, but if they can sway just enough people when this election already has enough bullshit for voters to sift through, it's an unwelcome distraction and disingenuous to political discourse.

You don't need to lecture me, I know this isn't exactly a hostage crisis; but I'm simply saying lots of Americans love their completely invalid historical context being injected into US politics, particularly Presidential politics.

"An attack on an embassy just like 1979/first casualties since 1979" is all some people need to hear before they start freaking out. Legitimately. Not over the politics of it like some of us tend to.

I know Romney fucked up but this is not something you want to see escalate. Hopefully the other embassies are being endowed with some serious fucking security measures.
 
R

Raine

Member
Obama responds:

"There's a broader lesson to be learned here: Governor Romney seems to have a tendency to shoot first and aim later and as president one of the things I've learned is you can't do that," Obama told CBS News on Wednesday."It's important for you to make sure that the statements that you make are backed up by the facts and that you've thought through the ramifications before you make them."
Click to expand...

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obama-on-romneys-libya-response-shoot-first-aim
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
massoluk said:
I'd rather have Obama not saying anything at all. Take a grand stand and speak only about the victims. But still Romeny got it coming.
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Ignoring something does not tend to work. A lesson John Kerry learned.
 
J

Jooney

Member
massoluk said:
I'd rather have Obama not saying anything at all. Take a grand stand and speak only about the victims. But still Romeny got it coming.
Click to expand...

If the media aren't going to cover Romney's fuckup, then I have no problem with the President making one statement about why Romney's actions were wrong.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
My God Romney fumbled this so fucking hard it's amazing.

b-b-but i think we should watch this situation guys, it could be a game changer!
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Diablos said:
Any other recent VA polls out there?


It's an attack on an embassy and a perception by some of Obama's opponents that he helped these people carry out their plans, and that's more than enough for the media and Romney to try and come up with a narrative that says he's a pussy when it comes to foreign policy. Will it work? I don't know yet, but if they can sway just enough people when this election already has enough bullshit for voters to sift through, it's an unwelcome distraction and disingenuous to political discourse.

You don't need to lecture me, I know this isn't exactly a hostage crisis; but I'm simply saying lots of Americans love their completely invalid historical context being injected into US politics, particularly Presidential politics.
Click to expand...
Whatever narrative is going be to trotted out will still have to reflect the scope and context of this incident even if only in a twisted fashion. Specifically, it's done, it's not an ongoing incident. There's nowhere for the narrative to go but retrospective and the media doesn't exactly like to dwell on past history for long. That's why, as despicable as I think Romney's response was, I don't really agree with some suggesting it's his "Lehman" moment. There's no ongoing crisis to yolk that claim to, unless I'm missing something.
 
J

Jooney

Member
Dr. Pangloss said:
Just thought of something. Imagine during the town hall debates this happens.

Constituent A: "I lost my house ..."
Constituent B: "I lost my job ...."
Constituent C: "I lost my life savings ..."
Constituent D: "I lost my medical insurance ..."
Click to expand...

Look how badly these people are doing under Obama.

/Kosmo
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
I think Kosmo is fun to have around. I wish there were more actual intellectual Republicans around here, but I'll take Kosmo if we have to.

So much back-patting in PoliGAF
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
kaching said:
Whatever narrative is going be to trotted out will still have to reflect the scope and context of this incident even if only in a twisted fashion. Specifically, it's done, it's not an ongoing incident. There's nowhere for the narrative to go but retrospective and the media doesn't exactly like to dwell on past history for long. That's why, as despicable as I think Romney's response was, I don't really agree with some suggesting it's his "Lehman" moment. There's no ongoing crisis to yolk that claim to, unless I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

Looking back on his entire campaign as nonstop lies and gaffes isn't great either
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Senior GOP Strategist Alex Castellanos thinks this debacle seriously undermined Romney...called it "game changer"
"This could be a game changer," GOP strategist and CNN contributor Alex Castellanos said. "Romney has to go at this and make it clear that he is doing it not for political gain but because weak, apologetic leadership is dangerous for the country."
Click to expand...
haha

Edit: Afternoon/Evening news is all over Romney

CNN "Did Romney jump the Gun?"
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Cyan said:
Yep. Would've rather seen him take the high ground, at least for now in the immediate aftermath. I think his reported disdain for Mittens may be affecting his judgment.
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The seal has already been broken. Its better for me that he made his point now, as a response to a question, than try to bring it up later.

Although I'm sure this will come up again, at the debates at the very least.

RustyNails said:
Senior GOP Strategist Alex Castellanos thinks this debacle seriously undermined Romney...called it "game changer"

haha
Click to expand...
I'm honestly sick of hearing Romney talk and talk and talk about leadership, while not acting like a leader. He's had opportunities aplenty to show us what his brand of leadership would look like, but he doesn't utilize them, preferring to remain silent, take potshots, lie, or fumble on the world stage. Are we supposed to believe he'll transform after the election?
 
R

Raine

Member
Cyan said:
Yep. Would've rather seen him take the high ground, at least for now in the immediate aftermath. I think his reported disdain for Mittens may be affecting his judgment.
Click to expand...

He took the high ground by not mentioning Romney's comments in his speech. It's safe to say he wouldn't have commented on it all if not asked. His judgement is fine on this.
 
S

Souldriver

Member
massoluk said:
I'd rather have Obama not saying anything at all. Take a grand stand and speak only about the victims. But still Romeny got it coming.
Click to expand...

Truth.

But if he's asked about it in an interview, it might be better to give a simple and effective answer like this one, rather than declining to answer at all. The latter might backfire as well.
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Stinkles said:
Looking back on his entire campaign as nonstop lies and gaffes isn't great either
Click to expand...
No argument there - events like this do matter in how they accumulate, just not enough taken individually. All I'm saying.

Cyan said:
It's not the ongoing crisis aspect that people are talking about though, it's the mindbogglingly stupid, flailing response.
Click to expand...
Which is nothing new for Romney either.
 
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