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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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markatisu

Member
Yeah if Dick Morris is predicting one thing then its definitely the other. His forecasts for 2008 were so ridiculous, he guaranteed a McCain win then also.

You should have heard him spin the FOX News Poll results that found Obama in the lead.

He argued they were doing it wrong and it was biased towards Obama....the FOX News poll was biased to Obama lol
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Yeah if Dick Morris is predicting one thing then its definitely the other. His forecasts for 2008 were so ridiculous, he guaranteed a McCain win then also.

You should have heard him spin the FOX News Poll results that found Obama in the lead.

He argued they were doing it wrong and it was biased towards Obama....the FOX News poll was biased to Obama lol

Dick Morris sounds like an unpleasant medical condition. 'Oh god, is that a Dick Morris or did I drop a Cheerio on my crotch?'
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
I honestly don't know who that comparison would insult more.

Michael Pachter is frequently correct and analyzes a hobby for kids and has a sense of humor and self-awareness. I like the cartoon but if we had to break it down, it insults Pachter far more.
 
Back-pats etc. but Josh Marshall on the tortured poll-reading:

I’ve been watching elections professionally for going on two decades.

From a fair amount of experience I’ll say one thing: if your theory is based on some sort of systematic error on the part of most pollsters, you’re almost certainly in for a really long election night.

Even bleeding-heart liberals can attest to this in 2004 and 2010.
 

Brinbe

Member
Hopefully this finally puts to rest the notion of PA ever being in play. Bams up 11 (50-39) according to the Philly Inquirer. They also had him up 14 (51-37) in Jersey.

The Inquirer survey of 600 likely voters, conducted Sept. 9-12, found that 50 percent would vote for Obama if the election were held today, and 39 percent would vote for Romney.

Obama's lead was up from the 9 points found in the first Inquirer poll, Aug. 21-23, in which he led, 51-42. Poll results included voters who were leaning toward a candidate. Both surveys had an error margin of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

The Obama edge stands where it was when the 2008 campaign ended. Obama beat John McCain, the GOP nominee that year, by 111/2 points.

A companion Inquirer New Jersey Poll, also taken Sept. 9-12, showed Obama ahead by 14 points, 51-37.

The president's current standing is largely built on his overwhelming backing in the Philadelphia television market, home to more than 40 percent of the state's voters. That offsets support for Romney in the more conservative Pittsburgh market and some other areas.

Statewide, Obama was ahead among all age groups, among both men and women, among those with college education and those without.

He was marginally ahead among white voters, 46-43, and overwhelmingly ahead among black voters, 93-3.
 

RDreamer

Member
So, no talk or backpats on how some Republicans accidentally voted to end welfare to work requirements? Whoops



I think the recall was, though.

They turned the recall into a direct referendum on recalls in general. Many many people were voting not for Walker but against the recall itself. There were a good chunk of people not voting for his policies, but voting agains the cost of the recall and the notion that a recall can happen even if something illegal technically hasn't.
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
They turned the recall into a direct referendum on recalls in general. Many many people were voting not for Walker but against the recall itself. There were a good chunk of people not voting for his policies, but voting agains the cost of the recall and the notion that a recall can happen even if something illegal technically hasn't.

Either way, if the public disagreed with his policies that much, he would have been recalled, as with Gray Davis, et al.
 

RDreamer

Member
Either way, if the public disagreed with his policies that much, he would have been recalled, as with Gray Davis, et al.

I guess, but you're talking about a thin margin either way, and then you throw in those other factors I mentioned along with the really shitty candidate against him. I just don't think there's really a direct correspondence between really liking what he did and him not being recalled.

And then there's the fact that a lot of the people below him that helped put the laws into place did get successfully recalled.
 

Cloudy

Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YiVe_7kTTdQ

I think this new ad is quite effective. Would have been better to show he stock market today though. After all, it was "Obama's stock market" when it was tanking in early 2009

Either way, if the public disagreed with his policies that much, he would have been recalled, as with Gray Davis, et al.

If the recall was this Fall, Walker would be a goner. It's all about turnout
 

Cloudy

Banned
Would like to ask who you guys think are the best "left" columns/blogs/etc.

Not Ezra Klein, Yglasias, Krugman, disingenuous types.

Something like: Glenn Greenwald, etc.

I don't think Ezra is disingenuous. Chris Hayes is great too but I dunno if he has a blog. Greenwald is good too and I respect his intellectual honesty. The only guy I read that's like him is Conor Friedersdorf. He is a Libertarian though.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Gray Davis had the misfortune of being governor while Enron was scamming the state through a manufactured energy crisis.

Yup. The Gray Davis recall was manufactured garbage. Bought and paid for. Walker is a scumbag, but even his recall made me uncomfortable. I do not like the idea of democracy being ignored when it isn't working out exactly the way you like. There are legal methods for dealing with criminal or illegal actions by politicians. Torturing the electoral system to do it feels wrong. They are people you hire for their performance with a cast iron contract. You don't want to sign that contract with them? Don't hire them.
 

ezekial45

Banned
Don't say Desperate: How Muslim Unrest Has Created a Crisis for Romney

http://nymag.com/news/politics/powergrid/mitt-romney-middle-east-unrest-2012-9/

One day this spring, over lunch in Chicago, David Axelrod offered up a concise summary of Team Obama’s prevailing view about the race ahead against Mitt Romney. “We have the better candidate, and we have the better argument,” Axelrod told me. “The question is just whether the externalities trip us up.” For months before that and every day since, the litany of potential exogenous shocks—from the collapse of the eurozone to a hot conflict between Israel and Iran to a succession of brutal jobs reports—has kept Axelrod and his colleagues tossing and twitching in their beds at night. For all their overt confidence, the Obamans are also stone-cold paranoiacs, well aware of the iron law of politics enunciated long ago by the poet Robert Burns: “The best-laid schemes o’ mice an’ men / Gang aft agley.” Which, for those unversed in archaic Scottish, translates roughly as “Shit happens.”

And so it does, with the past week proving another maxim: that when shit rains, shit pours. In the space of 72 hours, what began, horrifically enough on September 11, with the murder of four Americans (including one of our best and bravest, Christopher Stevens, the U.S. ambassador to Libya) at the consulate in Benghazi spiraled into a region-wide upheaval, with angry Muslim protests directed at American diplomatic missions erupting in sixteen countries. Suddenly, the president was facing just the kind of externality that his team had been bracing for: a full-blown ­foreign-policy crisis less than eight weeks out from Election Day. And a campaign marked by stasis and even torpor was jolted to life as if by a pair of defibrillator paddles applied squarely to its solar plexus.

Moments like this are not uncommon in presidential elections, and when they come, they tend to matter. For unlike the posturing and platitudes that constitute the bulk of what occurs on the campaign trail, big external events provide voters with something authentic and valuable: a real-time test of the temperament, character, and instincts of the men who would be commander-in-chief. And when it comes to the past week, the divergence between the resulting report cards could hardly be more stark.

Anyone doubting the potential significance of that disparity need only think back to precisely four years ago, when the collapse of Lehman Brothers triggered a worldwide financial panic. In the ten days that followed, Obama put on a master class in self-possession and unflappability under pressure; his rival, John McCain, did the opposite. When the smoke cleared, the slight lead McCain had held in the national polls was gone and Obama had seized the lead. Though another month remained in the campaign, the race was effectively over.

For Romney, the first blaring sign that his reaction to the assault on the consulate in Benghazi had badly missed the mark was the application of the phrase “Lehman ­moment” to his press availability on the morning of September 12. Here was ­America under attack, with four dead on foreign soil. And here was Romney, defiantly refusing to adopt a tone of sobriety, solemnity, or seriousness, instead attempting to score cheap political points, doubling down on his criticism from the night before that the Obama administration had been “disgraceful” for “sympathiz[ing]” with the attackers—criticism willfully ignoring the chronology of events, the source of the statement he was pillorying, the substance of the statement, and the circumstances under which it was made.

That the left heaped scorn on Romney’s gambit came as no surprise. But the right reacted almost as harshly—with former aides to John McCain, George W. Bush, and Ronald Reagan creating an on-the-record chorus of disapproval, while countless other Republican officials and operatives chimed in anonymously. “This is worse than a Lehman moment,” says a senior GOP operative. “­McCain made mistakes of impulsiveness, but this was a deliberate and premeditated move, and it totally revealed Romney’s character; it revealed him as completely craven and his candidacy as serving no higher purpose than his ambition.”

This bipartisan condemnation would have been bad enough in itself, but its negative effects were amplified because it fed into a broader narrative emerging in the media across the ideological spectrum: that Romney is losing, knows he is losing, and is starting to panic. This story line is, of course, rooted in reality, given that every available data point since the conventions suggests that Obama is indeed, for the first time, opening up a lead outside the margin of ­error nationally and in the battleground states. So the press corps is now on the lookout for signs of desperation in Romney and is finding them aplenty—most vividly in his reaction to Libya, but even before that, in his post-convention appearance on Meet the Press, where he embraced some elements of Obamacare (only to have his campaign walk back his comments later the same day).

Read more by clicking the link.
 
You guys really are spinning. Walker's policies are more popular now than they were before the recall, and his favorable numbers increased too. The recall was a giant failure; sure dems won some seats that'll likely flip again soon

The recall might have failed if Wisconsin had a poor economy. Instead they had one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. You're also overlooking the fact that the state is getting redder in part thanks to solid republican leadership; say what you will about them, but Paul Ryan and Scott Walker are superstars on the right
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Yup. The Gray Davis recall was manufactured garbage. Bought and paid for.
The single most infuriating thing about the blackouts is that all while Enron was deliberately fucking things up, they publicly laid the blame on regulation. Not only were they scamming the state, but they convinced people to give them greater leeway for doing so!
 

Ecotic

Member
I've been going back to past elections and watching election night coverage on youtube. It's really fascinating the tonal differences in the coverage between the different elections. Early in the 2000 election night, there was such a lack of any urgency or importance to the night. After so many years of peace and prosperity, with a (perceived at the time) amiable moderate Republican Governor and an incumbent Vice President, 2000 really was treated as the "election that didn't matter". As the night wore on and it became clear how close it was, it was still viewed as more of a fascinating civics class lesson than a night of any importance.

2004 was a really fun night to watch. Democrats went into the night behind and they knew it. They were mostly hoping for a popular vote defeat but victory through Ohio. The night was treated as a life or death moment, since many journalists saw Bush for who he was by that time but didn't have Katrina to get the rest of the country to go along with them. Watching 2004, you could really taste the desperation.

2008 was treated as a celebration. Everyone knew Obama was going to win but couldn't wait to go ahead and pop the champagne bottles and pat themselves on the back for such an "historic" achievement. Despite the economic collapse, two wars and all that, there was no urgency to the night since Obama's victory was a foregone conclusion.

Going back before 2000 lacks much fun because they were usually landslides, and hence, no excitement (save for 1992 with Perot, and the fact that the incumbent President was tossed out). 1980-1996 were all landslides or comfortable victories.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
The recall might have failed if Wisconsin had a poor economy. Instead they had one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. You're also overlooking the fact that the state is getting redder in part thanks to solid republican leadership; say what you will about them, but Paul Ryan and Scott Walker are superstars on the right
Doing what they do best: divide and conquer.
 
Hopefully this finally puts to rest the notion of PA ever being in play. Bams up 11 (50-39) according to the Philly Inquirer. They also had him up 14 (51-37) in Jersey.

had no worries about PA no one should've, but man look at the 08 PA counties
200px-Pennsylvania_Presidential_Election_Results_by_County%2C_2008.svg.png


This a blue state, if it wasnt for Philly and Pittsburgh lolz
 

GhaleonEB

Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YiVe_7kTTdQ

I think this new ad is quite effective. Would have been better to show he stock market today though. After all, it was "Obama's stock market" when it was tanking in early 2009

If the recall was this Fall, Walker would be a goner. It's all about turnout

The stock market metric is something the media likes to focus on, but the distribution of ownership is so skewed it really doesn't affect most people that much; if you had to pick one metric to focus on, it's jobs. Given the one minute run time, that's probably the right focal point.

Good ad, that hits a lot of smart notes; Clinton's line before segueing into Obama was smart. They'll ride that right through November.
 

Drakeon

Member
had no worries about PA no one should've, but man look at the 08 PA counties
200px-Pennsylvania_Presidential_Election_Results_by_County%2C_2008.svg.png


This a blue state, if it wasnt for Philly and Pittsburgh lolz

Eh, it's not like that doesn't happen in a lot of other blue states. It's no surprise that all the rural counties are republican, that's how it is pretty much everywhere. Although having now just looked up California, it's no surprise a democrat wins here everytime. A lot less red than I was expecting.

508px-CA2008Pres.svg.png
 
yeah almost every blue state is like that. elections aren't really red state v. blue state, it is rural areas v. urban areas.

i live in new jersey and in the part where i live it is hardcore republican territory.
 

I based my prediction on faulty numbers/reasoning. No different than the Obama's estimates on the stimulus' impact on unemployment

Romney can still win this. While he botched Libya, the situation reminds us that anything can happen on a global scale. That uncertainty is dangerous to both candidates
 
It's important to remember that displaying 'winner take all' results doesn't give you a very useful idea of what the demographics of an area are like. Especially if you're trying to come to some sort of conclusion about the state or country at large. I prefer gradient maps, as they much more accurately reflect that the country isn't as dramatically polarized as we like to think. Too lazy to find the really nice maps so wikipedia it is.


Also while they may be somewhat annoying to look at, cartograms help to reduce the impact of those ultra low pop areas that skew in one direction over a large area.

 

markatisu

Member
Gallup 49-45 O. Bounce over. Libya factored in?

That is still 4 points up, Romney is running out of chances to even it

A Romney Presidency is basically hinging on a disaster scenario and a amazing performance in the debates

One of those is hard enough, to need 2 is virtually impossible

Not saying he can't come back (anything can happen) but we are seriously entering the time where prayers will be as effective as campaigning
 
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