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[CHEEZMO™]

Oh man.

So one of my conservative family members is going on and on about how "they" (Muslims) dragged Ambassador Stevens through the street and raped him after he was dead. They are citing this picture of him that we saw already in this thread.

Picture

Is there any truth to this, or is that just the latest chain email crap going around? I had thought he was being carried to the hospital in that picture.

It's bullshit.

 

[Gotchaye]

Um...logically wouldn't this make sense in practice? If you're a friend of the US why do we need to interfere with every little thing? If you're an *enemy* wouldn't it be best to talk first rather than dropping bombs on sight?

*siiiigh*

I don't think the complaint is about just talking. It's "let's talk" as in "let's make a deal". The idea is that Obama treats our enemies better than he treats our allies, and gives our enemies' interests higher priority than our allies interests'.

It's not "Obama doesn't pick up the phone when Bibi calls". It's "when Iran and Israel disagree about something, Obama sides with Iran".

It comes from the same place as the apoplexy about the US government criticizing an anti-Muslim video but not condemning The Book of Mormon.

 

[Manmademan]

I don't think the complaint is about just talking. It's "let's talk" as in "let's make a deal". The idea is that Obama treats our enemies better than he treats our allies, and gives our enemies' interests higher priority than our allies interests'.

It's not "Obama doesn't pick up the phone when Bibi calls". It's "when Iran and Israel disagree about something, Obama sides with Iran".

It comes from the same place as the apoplexy about the US government criticizing an anti-Muslim video but not condemning The Book of Mormon.

False equivalency is false

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Obama answers the "Are we better off?" question in an ad I love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YiVe_7kTTdQ

 

[Gotchaye]

False equivalency is false

Which one? My equivalency or one of the equivalencies I'm equating?

 

[sc0la]

Which one? My equivalency or one of the equivalencies I'm equating?

This is one of those lame stream media gotchaye questions isn't it?

 

[RDreamer]

I have to hand it to the Democratic ground team for Obama and Baldwin here in Wisconsin. I've seen them at far more festivals and places than Romney or any Republican. Today I was out at the festival in town and there was a Democratic booth for Obama, Baldwin, and some of the local people, but nothing for Romney. And this is a town that both should probably be competing for. It's kind of in between the divide of the richest area (and probably most Republican) in the state and the democratic city of Milwaukee. If I had to guess it's probably still mostly Republican, but there are a good number of Democrats around.

 

[Effect]

Obama answers the "Are we better off?" question in an ad I love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YiVe_7kTTdQ

Beautiful ad. It's really sad that republicans have bought into their own talking point that the president has no record to run on. How they've gotten to that point is both interesting and scary.

 

[Hitokage]

Beautiful ad. It's really sad that republicans have bought into their own talking point that the president has no record to run on. How they've gotten to that point is both interesting and scary.

They've spent decades secluding themselves into a closed information loop. That they buy their own talking points comes as no surprise.

 

[Diablos]

Hopefully this finally puts to rest the notion of PA ever being in play. Bams up 11 (50-39) according to the Philly Inquirer. They also had him up 14 (51-37) in Jersey.

PA represent, woo woo.

The county in blue on the far left of the map that's isolated is where I live, and it also just happens to have 1.2 mil people. We will deliver as always, I'm sure.

 

[jiggle]

so snl is tonite
new obama vs biden as romney
gonna be interesting!

 

[Hitokage]

A legal system which upholds certain things as sacred is wide open to corruption. That's not how we like to roll. Doesn't mean we agree with it, but some people wanting executions should get used to disappointment.

 

[gkryhewy]

Cross-post from the "anti-Islam film" thread, because this really is an excellent article and more people should read it:

Great article from the Egypt Independent.

Read the whole thing if you have a chance.

Honestly, fuck all those protesters. Ignorance piled on ignorance.

 

[ezrarh]

Cross-post from the "anti-Islam film" thread, because this really is an excellent article and more people should read it:

Great article from the Egypt Independent.


Read the whole thing if you have a chance.

Interesting article. The whole situation is a bit of a mess, this whole protest over the movie is a symptom of a larger systemic issue that is hard to solve. You have a large number of young males that are underemployed or unemployed, little education, and destitute. It doesn't take much of a spark to get these guys going.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Breitbart.com has the hottest scoop yet! (not linking to their site because fuck them)

Looks like Obama's in trouble; after all, according to this article he was given $1m by

Spoiler

Bill Maher, for Religulous, who is only named halfway through the article

.

 

[Hitokage]

But I thought Obama was muslin.

 

[kehs]

But I thought Obama was muslin.

He's only both the men Rmoney is.

 

[Clevinger]

Breitbart.com has the hottest scoop yet! (not linking to their site because fuck them)

Looks like Obama's in trouble; after all, according to this article he was given $1m by

Spoiler

Bill Maher, for Religulous, who is only named halfway through the article

.

They're staying true to Breitbart's legacy.

But I thought Obama was muslin.

And I thought anti-Muslim films were OK because of free speech.

 

[Stinkles]

Breitbart.com has the hottest scoop yet! (not linking to their site because fuck them)

Looks like Obama's in trouble; after all, according to this article he was given $1m by

Spoiler

Bill Maher, for Religulous, who is only named halfway through the article

.

What a piece of fucking shit. Zombie Breitbart is an idiot though, because his readers will be mind blown and have a stroke. They must now wrestle with the following thought: Obama is supported by a guy who hates muslims and is christian and the guy made a movie that shows Mohammed was a monster. Which they are also defending elsewhere.

 

[B-Dubs]

Breitbart.com has the hottest scoop yet! (not linking to their site because fuck them)

Looks like Obama's in trouble; after all, according to this article he was given $1m by

Spoiler

Bill Maher, for Religulous, who is only named halfway through the article

.

I'm pretty sure Maher didn't make the film that got everyone up in arms.....this has got to be the balliest lie ever then. Unless I missed something recently.

 

[Stinkles]

Davis was recalled because he was a weak POS. Instead of doing something productive, he tried to go through the super slow court system while people were getting fucked over.

He was a man of inaction. I was happy when we threw him out.

He was recalled because of the power blackouts. Any other inference is ignoring that fact. If it wasn't for the blackouts he'd just have been a weak governor, not a recalled one.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Breitbart.com has the hottest scoop yet! (not linking to their site because fuck them)

Looks like Obama's in trouble; after all, according to this article he was given $1m by

Spoiler

Bill Maher, for Religulous, who is only named halfway through the article

.

Tea Party Paradox right here.

 

[Black Mamba]

He was recalled because of the power blackouts. Any other inference is ignoring that fact. If it wasn't for the blackouts he'd just have been a weak governor, not a recalled one.

He was recalled because of how he handled the blackouts.

 

[Oblivion]

Breitbart.com has the hottest scoop yet! (not linking to their site because fuck them)

Looks like Obama's in trouble; after all, according to this article he was given $1m by

Spoiler

Bill Maher, for Religulous, who is only named halfway through the article

.

I like how Bill Maher's apparently the go-to guy for pretty much every right wing defense of pretty much everything.

 

[Stinkles]

He was recalled because of how he handled the blackouts.

Yes. The blackouts that were caused by a subsequently proven criminal action and the recall was funded and orchestrated by the right. You are agreeing with me. I am saying that set of circumstances was bullshit.

 

[Averon]

But I thought Obama was muslin.

No, no, no. Obama's a secret Muslim. Him getting funds from that filmmaker is a part of his multi-layer cover.

 

[Black Mamba]

Yes. The blackouts that were caused by a subsequently proven criminal action and the recall was funded and orchestrated by the right. You are agreeing with me. I am saying that set of circumstances was bullshit.

Right, but if Davis handled it better, he would never have been recalled, which is what I'm saying. I voted his ass out and am proud I did, regardless who funded it. We needed a leader to challenge those assholes, instead he played the role of a chump.

 

[Hitokage]

I don't quite understand how Davis's response to the blackouts is necessarily damning, given the covert nature of the criminal scheme.

 

[Black Mamba]

I don't quite understand how Davis's response to the blackouts is necessarily damning, given the covert nature of the criminal scheme.

He showed no leadership. He was all "chill dudes, I'm gonna go through the court process and in 2 years it will be figured out," rather than doing something about the current blackouts. Even if he couldn't stop the blackouts, if he at least would have talked a big game about how he was gonna put and end to it, the recall doesn't happen.

He acted like a limp dick during a crisis. Can't do that, especially in California.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Interesting and unexpected:

buying a home is now 45% cheaper than renting, according to an analysis done by Trulia and reported here by its chief economist Jed Kalko:

Methodology: Trulia looks at homes listed for sale and for rent on its website, and compares the average rent and asking price for an identical set of properties in a metro area, for a direct apples-to-apples comparison. Then, Trulia factors in the total costs of homeownership (e.g., closing costs, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc) and total cost of renting (e.g., renter’s insurance and security deposit).

The starting assumptions are that a prospective homebuyer can get a low mortgage rate of 3.5 percent, itemizes their federal tax deductions, is in the 25 percent tax bracket, and will stay in their home for seven years. To account for the opportunity costs, Trulia calculates the net present value of the payment streams for renting and owning.

Conclusion: With a 20% down payment, a 30-year fixed mortgage rate at 3.5% and at the 25% federal tax bracket, Trulia finds that homeownership is cheaper than renting in all of the 100 largest metros by a wide margin. There is no market where the financial decision is even close, so long as you plan to stay in the home for at least seven years, finance with a 3.5% mortgage, and itemize your tax deductions.

http://trends.truliablog.com/2012/09/rent-vs-buy-summer-2012/


--- // ---

Ben Bernanke:

 

[Black Mamba]

Interesting and unexpected:



http://trends.truliablog.com/2012/09/rent-vs-buy-summer-2012/

Makes sense. Rent always goes up when housing Demand dries. And the rates are low.

However, there doesn't seem to be a opportunity cost in the analysis based on your post, so it's numbers are way too high for homeowners.

For a $300k house at the same rate and 20% down with 2% annual growth in home value, takes about 14 years to break even with renting, not 7.

 

[reilo]

Makes sense. Rent always goes up when housing Demand dries. And the rates are low.

However, there doesn't seem to be a opportunity cost in the analysis based on your post, so it's numbers are way too high for homeowners.

For a $300k house at the same rate and 20% down with 2% annual growth in home value, takes about 14 years to break even with renting, not 7.

Not to mention that a 20% downpayment is $60,000. lol.

 

[B-Dubs]

Ben Bernanke:

That made me smile.

 

[kehs]

Is the influx of bond purchases basically what empty_vessel talks about?

 

[Black Mamba]

Not to mention that a 20% downpayment is $60,000. lol.

20% used to be standard!

higher or lower down payment is impossible to change the calculations cuz it depends whether you have the money or not (affect the opportunity cost of buying over renting). But if you had $60k, that's what it would be.

 

[RDreamer]

Really wish I could afford a house now. Going to be a long time before I can afford a 20% downpayment especially. Really sucks when I think about how if I had skipped college altogether I could probably afford one by now =/

 

[HylianTom]

Really wish I could afford a house now. Going to be a long time before I can afford a 20% downpayment especially. Really sucks when I think about how if I had skipped college altogether I could probably afford one by now =/

My house plans are on hold right now. Most of my money is tied-up in 20 acres of forest land in rural Mississippi. As soon as that sells, I'll have enough for a huge down payment (~50%) on a lot where I can build a modest ICF/PV-paneled house. The bank wants 20% down for an empty lot.

Funny thing.. had I not bought the land, I probably would've crapped the monthly payment money away on frivolous things. It was a good way for me to force myself to save, as I sent three or four times the minimum monthly payment for the first four years.

 

[reilo]

20% used to be standard!

higher or lower down payment is impossible to change the calculations cuz it depends whether you have the money or not (affect the opportunity cost of buying over renting). But if you had $60k, that's what it would be.

Right. And I'm saying, those that have $60k for a downpayment buy a house -- I doubt they rent.

Those that don't, rent. Which is why the article is making an odd point. It's basically saying you'd save money if you have a lot of money -- over a period of 7+ years.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

had no worries about PA no one should've, but man look at the 08 PA counties

This a blue state, if it wasnt for Philly and Pittsburgh lolz

"Between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, it's Alabama"-My Dad lol

Voting wise he's right, but the middle of PA is gorgeous and lots of good places and people too. That said eve in Newtown in Bucks County there is some motherfucker in a big ass monster pick up truck who drives around with a big ass confederate flag mounted to the truck bed.

Oh I was a place today where the entire parking lot had Romney bumper stickers...can anyone guess where?

 

[Kosmo]

Is the influx of bond purchases basically what empty_vessel talks about?

Not really. What he mostly talks about is just printing vast amounts of money and having the government use that money for infrastructure projects or just flat out hiring people to do whatever kind of government work you can think of.

All this will do is pump $40B a month into banks and inflate their bonuses.

 

[Kosmo]

Thoughts on this open letter Mike Rowe put out to Romney:

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2012/09/the-first-four-years-are-the-hardest/

Dear Governor Romney,
My name is Mike Rowe and I own a small company in California called mikeroweWORKS. Currently, mikeroweWORKS is trying to close the country’s skills gap by changing the way Americans feel about Work. (I know, right? Ambitious.) Anyway, this Labor Day is our 4th anniversary, and I’m commemorating the occasion with an open letter to you. If you read the whole thing, I’ll vote for you in November.

First things first. mikeroweWORKS grew out of a TV show called Dirty Jobs. If by some chance you are not glued to The Discovery Channel every Wednesday at 10pm, allow me to visually introduce myself. That’s me on the right, preparing to do something dirty.

When Dirty Jobs premiered back in 2003, critics called the show “a calamity of exploding toilets and misadventures in animal husbandry.” They weren’t exactly wrong. But mostly, Dirty Jobs was an unscripted celebration of hard work and skilled labor. It still is. Every week, we highlight regular people who do the kind of jobs most people go out of their way to avoid. My role on the show is that of a “perpetual apprentice.” In that capacity I have completed over three hundred different jobs, visited all fifty states, and worked in every major industry.

Though schizophrenic and void of any actual qualifications, my resume looks pretty impressive, and when our economy officially crapped the bed in 2008, I was perfectly positioned to weigh in on a variety of serious topics. A reporter from The Wall Street Journal called to ask what I thought about the “counter-intuitive correlation between rising unemployment and the growing shortage of skilled labor.” CNBC wanted my take on outsourcing. Fox News wanted my opinions on manufacturing and infrastructure. And CNN wanted to chat about currency valuations, free trade, and just about every other work-related problem under the sun.

In each case, I shared my theory that most of these “problems” were in fact symptoms of something more fundamental – a change in the way Americans viewed hard work and skilled labor. That’s the essence of what I’ve heard from the hundreds of men and women I’ve worked with on Dirty Jobs. Pig farmers, electricians, plumbers, bridge painters, jam makers, blacksmiths, brewers, coal miners, carpenters, crab fisherman, oil drillers…they all tell me the same thing over and over, again and again – our country has become emotionally disconnected from an essential part of our workforce. We are no longer impressed with cheap electricity, paved roads, and indoor plumbing. We take our infrastructure for granted, and the people who build it.

Today, we can see the consequences of this disconnect in any number of areas, but none is more obvious than the growing skills gap. Even as unemployment remains sky high, a whole category of vital occupations has fallen out of favor, and companies struggle to find workers with the necessary skills. The causes seem clear. We have embraced a ridiculously narrow view of education. Any kind of training or study that does not come with a four-year degree is now deemed “alternative.” Many viable careers once aspired to are now seen as “vocational consolation prizes,” and many of the jobs this current administration has tried to “create” over the last four years are the same jobs that parents and teachers actively discourage kids from pursuing. (I always thought there something ill-fated about the promise of three million “shovel ready jobs” made to a society that no longer encourages people to pick up a shovel.)

Which brings me to my purpose in writing. On Labor Day of 2008, the fans of Dirty Jobs helped me launch this website. mikeroweWORKS.com began as a Trade Resource Center designed to connect kids with careers in the skilled trades. It has since evolved into a non-profit foundation – a kind of PR Campaign for hard work and skilled labor. Thanks to a number of strategic partnerships, I have been able to promote a dialogue around these issues with a bit more credibility than my previous resume allowed. I’ve spoken to Congress (twice) about the need to confront the underlying stigmas and stereotypes that surround these kinds of jobs. Alabama and Georgia have both used mikeroweWORKS to launch their own statewide technical recruitment campaigns, and I’m proud to be the spokesman for both initiatives. I also work closely with Caterpillar, Ford, Kimberly-Clark, and Master Lock, as well as The Boy Scouts of America and The Future Farmers of America. To date, the mikeroweWORKS Foundation has raised over a million dollars for trade scholarships. It’s modest by many standards, but I think we’re making a difference.

Certainly, we need more jobs, and you were clear about that in Tampa. But the Skills Gap proves that we need something else too. We need people who see opportunity where opportunity exists. We need enthusiasm for careers that have been overlooked and underappreciated by society at large. We need to have a really big national conversation about what we value in the workforce, and if I can be of help to you in that regard, I am at your service – assuming of course, you find yourself in a new address early next year.

To be clear, mikeroweWORKS has no political agenda. I am not an apologist for Organized Labor or for Management. mikeroweWORKS is concerned only with encouraging a larger appreciation for skilled labor, and supporting those kids who are willing to learn a skill.
Good luck in November. And thanks for your time.

Sincerely,
Mike Rowe

PS. In the interest of full disclosure I should mention that I wrote a similar letter to President Obama. Of course, that was four years ago, and since I never heard back, I believe proper etiquette allows me to extend the same offer to you now. I figure if I post it here, the odds are better that someone you know might send it along to your attention.

 

[Black Mamba]

Right. And I'm saying, those that have $60k for a downpayment buy a house -- I doubt they rent.

Those that don't, rent. Which is why the article is making an odd point. It's basically saying you'd save money if you have a lot of money -- over a period of 7+ years.

6 years ago, if you had $60k, I'd have advised you not to buy a home. Market is different, now. Especially with a 6% rate. Renting had been cheaper until recenting.

I've been telling people not to buy a home for so many years; it's weird now I tell them they can buy one. lol.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Right. And I'm saying, those that have $60k for a downpayment buy a house -- I doubt they rent.

Those that don't, rent. Which is why the article is making an odd point. It's basically saying you'd save money if you have a lot of money -- over a period of 7+ years.

I dunno. I think there is some popular sentiment among some that buying a house is not even worth it and may actually be more costly versus renting over a 10-20 year period. I see some people on forums say it a lot recently. Even after the crash.

 

[Clevinger]

Thoughts on this open letter Mike Rowe put out to Romney:

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2012/09/the-first-four-years-are-the-hardest/

I stopped reading here:

"If you read the whole thing, I’ll vote for you in November."

 

[RDreamer]

Not really. What he mostly talks about is just printing vast amounts of money and having the government use that money for infrastructure projects or just flat out hiring people to do whatever kind of government work you can think of.

All this will do is pump $40B a month into banks and inflate their bonuses.

I'm pretty sure you're understanding his position wrongly.

Yes he advocates that we could "print" (i.e. spend) more money on infrastructure projects, which would be a good thing to do in a recession mind you, but he would also likely advocate for a more aggressively progressive tax system in order to partially offset it. I don't think he advocates for printing metric fucktons more than now. He's just saying we don't need to start austerity measures because of a scoreboard number dubbed the debt.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I dunno. I think there is some popular sentiment among some that buying a house is not even worth it and may actually be more costly versus renting over a 10-20 year period. I see some people on forums say it a lot recently. Even after the crash.

When you factor in prop and local taxes it can be.

 

[ToxicAdam]

When you factor in prop and local taxes it can be.

They factored in taxes. Also, they factored in the tax breaks you get from owning a home.

The big caveat in this study is that they assume 3 best-case scenarios of a buyer. Good credit, the ability to itemize deductions and staying in one place for more than 5 years. Not to mention the down payment, which can take people 5-6 years just to save up for.

You fall short on a few of those and it makes less sense to buy instead of rent. In some cases, it might actually be cheaper to rent.

Because those people were right. Most homeowners don't understand the costs of owning a home.

But this study factors in ALL the costs of owning a home over a 7 year time period. Granted, outliers may exist where a person takes on a money pit .. but on average, a person saved a ton of money by buying a home in every major market.

 

[Black Mamba]

I dunno. I think there is some popular sentiment among some that buying a house is not even worth it and may actually be more costly versus renting over a 10-20 year period. I see some people on forums say it a lot recently. Even after the crash.

Because those people were right. Most homeowners don't understand the costs of owning a home.

 

[RDreamer]

Thoughts on this open letter Mike Rowe put out to Romney:

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2012/09/the-first-four-years-are-the-hardest/

Aside from the fact that apparently he'll give away his vote pretty easily, I do agree with the guy. We do have a disconnect from the people that do our hardest work. They should be celebrated, and we should definitely put emphasis and praise on those that choose to go into those lines. We need people to take care of our electricity and plumbing and all that.

I do feel like as a society we did turn somewhere wrong at some point. I feel like between the last generation and my generation things got a little weird. Perhaps it was the last generation that wanted my generation to all be able to work without getting dirty, and thus we all went to college and learned to do other shit. Perhaps its the mountains upon mountains of praise and money we give to those that do nothing but play with imaginary moneys on Wall Street. I dunno, but yeah somehow we made a disconnect.

I think it's kind of weird that he went to Romney on it. Well, I suppose it's not weird since he apparently sent Obama the same thing. Not sure why Obama didn't answer, but whatever. Anyway, Romney and the right at this point are kind of exacerbating the problem he's pointing out. This worship of the ever almighty job creators does nothing but demean the hard working people who actually get dirty and do the work below them. They're just lucky those gracious job creators gave them their jobs! That's the narrative I get from the right, and yeah, it sucks and it belittles those who do those jobs. And somehow they're falling for that line of thought hook line and sinker... Not entirely sure why.

 

[Manmademan]

I dunno. I think there is some popular sentiment among some that buying a house is not even worth it and may actually be more costly versus renting over a 10-20 year period. I see some people on forums say it a lot recently. Even after the crash.

over 10 to 20 years?? I can't see how that's feasible- especially with fixed interest rates being the norm again, and being as low as they are.

mortgage at the very least locks in the monthly payment, and can be paid off early if you're frugal. Rent is only going to go up over time.

short term (if you're planning to move in 5 years or so) renting is cheaper, no doubt.

Aside from the fact that apparently he'll give away his vote pretty easily, I do agree with the guy. We do have a disconnect from the people that do our hardest work. They should be celebrated, and we should definitely put emphasis and praise on those that choose to go into those lines. We need people to take care of our electricity and plumbing and all that.

I do feel like as a society we did turn somewhere wrong at some point. I feel like between the last generation and my generation things got a little weird. Perhaps it was the last generation that wanted my generation to all be able to work without getting dirty, and thus we all went to college and learned to do other shit. Perhaps its the mountains upon mountains of praise and money we give to those that do nothing but play with imaginary moneys on Wall Street. I dunno, but yeah somehow we made a disconnect.

I think it's kind of weird that he went to Romney on it. Well, I suppose it's not weird since he apparently sent Obama the same thing. Not sure why Obama didn't answer, but whatever. Anyway, Romney and the right at this point are kind of exacerbating the problem he's pointing out. This worship of the ever almighty job creators does nothing but demean the hard working people who actually get dirty and do the work below them. They're just lucky those gracious job creators gave them their jobs! That's the narrative I get from the right, and yeah, it sucks and it belittles those who do those jobs. And somehow they're falling for that line of thought hook line and sinker... Not entirely sure why.

my previous place of employment was heavily invested into pushing this message and I think still works with Rowe on initiatives. He's 100% correct. But the solution to the problem is not privatization of public school systems, voucher programs, and cutting funding for higher education, all of which WILL happen should we have a republican congress and president- if it's not a formal part of their platform by now it might as well be, under the guise of "choice" as usual. Corbett in PA has been particularly horrific about this.