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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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Jackson50

Member
I just finished listening to Obama's speech. For the most part, the narrative was a beautiful affirmation of pluralism. My only reservation regards the bellicose posturing towards Iran. However, given the domestic pressure he's encountering, I'd hardly expect him to state otherwise. The problem stems from a systemic obsession which transcends Obama.
who said anything about dead 12 year olds?,

They've been going after terrorists in between the mountains in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
If they had limited drone strikes to that particular region, the practice would not be as objectionable; although, their use even in Pakistan should be reduced. But the Obama Administration expanded drone warfare to unprecedented levels in various theaters where intelligence may be highly deficient. And for various reasons, the extent of our drone strikes might be counterproductive and inimical to American interests even if the short-term gains appear greater.
I can't believe you're making me defend Manos, but spare me the high-minded bullshit. Would you prefer having all of these missions carried out by ground soldiers or what?
You're presenting a false dilemma, though. We would not use ground soldiers instead of drone attacks. We would conduct fewer attacks. One of the hallmarks of drone strikes is a lowered cost of engagement. Consequently, drone strikes are used in situations where traditional means of warfare are unfeasible. This could be beneficial, but it also invites injudicious attacks where the normal means of warfare would restrain behavior.
 
I remember an article about this around 2008, they were saying the cumulative loss in business (and tax revenue across the board) would be significant as you would have to make it a strong holiday with mandatory time off. What I mean is that the majority of places would actually have to be closed by law to allow for voting, as opposed to a soft holiday where retail and restaurants are all open. That and they would also need to ban sales of alcohol on that day.

At least they should make it non-binding. You should be allowed to take rest of the day off after 12pm without any problems. If people still wanna work till 5 or 6, don't kick them out.
 
Here's the 2010 set (just remembered that there was an update!):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/sets/72157626354149574/detail/

I'm here in Uptown on Prytania Street, and you can tell that things are on the move. I take a walk almost every night - one or two hours long - and always notice how more and more houses are undergoing renovation/makeover. I've spoken with an elderly gentleman who has run a corner store in the Irish Channel for a few decades, and he says that people are being priced-out either into Midtown, the East, or Kenner/Metairie.

(and I'm guilty, too. In a month or so, we're buying three lots in the Channel and planning a new home build. We're a part of the problem. :/ )

I'm of the Yglesias/Avett thinking here, and that investing money to buy houses in a community isn't a bad thing, but our local institutions need to get their heads on straight about building higher density into the places where people want to live.
 
Thats the thing, even if they hate romney and hold on to the house Obama will likely get these no matter opposition:
- A third supreme court justice
- Full implementation of Obamacare rendering it nearly impossible remove
- Credit for the economic growth that will be in full effect by the end of the next term
- Death of Bush tax cuts for the rich (He has no re-election to worry about, he has nothing to lose in a stand-off).

2nd term Obama is gonna be so good that PD's concern trolling will be even more hilarious
 

dschalter

Member
Thats the thing, even if they hate romney and hold on to the house Obama will likely get these no matter opposition:
- A third supreme court justice
- Full implementation of Obamacare rendering it nearly impossible remove
- Credit for the economic growth that will be in full effect by the end of the next term
- Death of Bush tax cuts for the rich (He has no re-election to worry about, he has nothing to lose in a stand-off).

Obama does have to worry about the Democratic Party though, so it's not as though he'll just do whatever. As for the Supreme Court, there's a good chance he'll get to replace Ginsburg with another liberal, but Scalia and Kennedy aren't *that* old and the other three have many years ahead of them. Agreed on Obamacare though.
 

thatbox

Banned
Here's the 2010 set (just remembered that there was an update!):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/sets/72157626354149574/detail/

I'm here in Uptown on Prytania Street, and you can tell that things are on the move. I take a walk almost every night - one or two hours long - and always notice how more and more houses are undergoing renovation/makeover. I've spoken with an elderly gentleman who has run a corner store in the Irish Channel for a few decades, and he says that people are being priced-out either into Midtown, the East, or Kenner/Metairie.

(and I'm guilty, too. In a month or so, we're buying three lots in the Channel and planning a new home build. We're a part of the problem. :/ )

I'll be in your neighborhood tonight for trivia at A Pub. Cheers!
 
Obama does have to worry about the Democratic Party though, so it's not as though he'll just do whatever. As for the Supreme Court, there's a good chance he'll get to replace Ginsburg with another liberal, but Scalia and Kennedy aren't *that* old and the other three have many years ahead of them. Agreed on Obamacare though.

Yea. I'm pretty sure the Obamacare/Thomas fuckup extended Scalia and Thomas' lives by at least 20 years. They're out for blood
 

zchen

Member
I just hope it doesn't lead to more idiot buying and price gouging on firearms, ammo, and components. I think/hope they all learned there lesson last time after paying stupid prices and not being able to recover the cost. That said I have seen some stupidity about impending martial law to prevent an election and such on nut sites, but I kind of think it always occurs.

I remember buying an AR15 lower for $100 at a local shop just a one week before the election, by the time waiting period was over and I went to pick it up, people were paying $250 or more. It was ridiculous the first 6 month~year and finally subsided after people realized Obama got bigger things to worry about.
 

pigeon

Banned
GAF -> Internet -> Liberal Media -> Narrative -> GAF?

Salon said:
I present UnSkewedPolls.com, the best new website on the political Internet. UnSkewed Polls finally removes the “liberal media bias” from every single national opinion poll, and it turns out that “unskewing” them means “making it so that Romney is ahead by a lot.” Rick Perry approves!

The UnSkewed Average has Romney at 51.8 percent and Obama at a mere 44 percent. How does the genius behind UnSkewed Polls go about unskewing all the polls — like, for real, the vast majority of polls — that show the opposite result? Well, Dean Chambers, the polling genius behind the site, simply “re-weights” every single national poll to reflect his belief that Republicans are undersampled, based on right-leaning pollster Rasmussen’s partisan breakdown of the electorate. (Scott Rasmussen blurbs: “you cannot compare partisan weighting from one polling firm to another.”)

http://www.salon.com/2012/09/25/the_website_where_mitt_romneys_winning_in_a_landslide/

PPPPolls also retweeted the unskewed guy, and I guess Wonkette has the story as well. And The Hill referenced him? He's about to be the conservative Nate Silver. Keep your eye on Fox News.

edit:
buzzfeed said:
The website gained attention Sunday night, when Texas Gov. Rick Perry tweeted the link with the note, "Always nice to get unfiltered or in this case 'unskewed' information." A link to the site was later posted on the Drudge Report and the PJ Tatler.
 

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
Romney says teacher's unions shouldn't be able to make political contributions.
“We have a very unusual system in this country. It’s not just related to teachers unions. It relates more broadly. But people are able to give — in the case of the Democratic Party, I don’t mean to be terribly partisan, but I kind of am — in case of the Democratic Party, the largest contributors to the Democratic Party are the teachers unions, the federal teachers unions,” Romney said at an NBC Education Summit here Tuesday.
“It’s an extraordinary conflict of interest. That’s something I think is a problem and should be addressed,” he said.
"They aren't giving me money, so they shouldn't be able to give anyone money."
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
At least they should make it non-binding. You should be allowed to take rest of the day off after 12pm without any problems. If people still wanna work till 5 or 6, don't kick them out.

I think its a good idea. It would also eliminate a lot of the early voting need and shenanigans.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Its almost more damaging not to know the exact details. Just the fact that Romney has put so much effort into dodging the issue is bad enough because we're left to imagine all kinds of dark scenarios.
Yeah. It really is a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't scenario. Romney has clearly made the calculus that it's better not to release them. At this point I wonder whether a factor in that calculus is the increasing likelihood that he loses, in which case he has nothing to gain by dumping his personal finances out in the open and thus damaging his reputation further.

The tax news dump on Friday was really weird, and shows how he wants it both ways. He wants to show that he fulfilled his pledge to release 2011 taxes - while burying it on a Friday afternoon. And he wants to air something out about prior returns, while simultaneously raising more questions than he answered.

It's fun to watch him squirm, though. And you know there will be a lot of that in the debates.
Romney says teacher's unions shouldn't be able to make political contributions.

"They aren't giving me money, so they shouldn't be able to give anyone money."

That, and, "I don’t mean to be terribly partisan, but I kind of am,". I don't mean to be what I am?
 
GAF -> Internet -> Liberal Media -> Narrative -> GAF?



http://www.salon.com/2012/09/25/the_website_where_mitt_romneys_winning_in_a_landslide/

PPPPolls also retweeted the unskewed guy, and I guess Wonkette has the story as well. And The Hill referenced him? He's about to be the conservative Nate Silver. Keep your eye on Fox News.

edit:
Of course, when he's horribly wrong he'll be dismissed by every pundit even after keeping up his shenanigans in 2014.

Then again, Romney could win by just 1 electoral vote and everyone would be praising this guy for defying the liberal conventional wisdom and showing the truth.

Similar to how Rasmussen was off by an average of 6 points in 2010 but gets to claim they were "right" since the night was bad for Democrats anyway.
 
I remember buying an AR15 lower for $100 at a local shop just a one week before the election, by the time waiting period was over and I went to pick it up, people were paying $250 or more. It was ridiculous the first 6 month~year and finally subsided after people realized Obama got bigger things to worry about.
Oh yeah, if you had gotten stuff beforehand you could have made a lot of money selling stuff it off, people went nuts. I was happy I wasn't buying firearms and ammo at that point.
 

mj1108

Member
On a daily basis I'm asking myself, "what the hell is wrong with Romney"? We all know that Romney is smarter than that interview where he says the ER is an okay form of "healthcare". Jesus man what's his deal?

His deal is that he's having to move to the far, fringe right to appeal to the GOP....and I get the feeling it's not something he really wants to do and instead is being forced to do it.
 

Tim-E

Member
...

Are you kidding me?

Hey Mitt, how about we just get all the money out of elections and fund them publicly. Would that work for you?

We already! Your taxes are paying for teachers, who then pay union fees, who then donate money to democrats!!! Allowing teacher's unions to donate is basically just infinite money for democrats!!!!

[/republican response]
 
His deal is that he's having to move to the far, fringe right to appeal to the GOP....and I get the feeling it's not something he really wants to do and instead is being forced to do it.

no one is forced in that realm. he's a coward who can't stand on his own principles
 
...

Are you kidding me?

Hey Mitt, how about we just get all the money out of elections and fund them publicly. Would that work for you?
I think he actually made a comment the other day saying that it was Obama's fault that there's so much money in politics, because he refused public funding back in '08. It might have been a Romney campaign person, but I think it was himself. I doubt he would have accepted public funding when it was looking like the GOP was going to outraise Obama though.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
I think he actually made a comment the other day saying that it was Obama's fault that there's so much money in politics, because he refused public funding back in '08. It might have been a Romney campaign person, but I think it was himself. I doubt he would have accepted public funding when it was looking like the GOP was going to outraise Obama though.

I believe that was because Obama sought a gentleman's agreement with McCain and the RNC that if both candidates accepted public funding, they would also do everything they could to reign in the PACs.

Basically, Obama was saying "Well, if I accept public funding, I'll be severely handicapping myself, as conservative PACs are far more powerful than those on the democratic side, especially after we all saw the success the conservative PACs showed with the swiftboating attacks on a war hero last time around. So as long as we agree to reign in these 3rd party attacks and truly fight on equal ground with public funding, campaign vs campaign, without these proxy organization loopholes being used, I'm all for it. Otherwise, I'll need to reject public funding and rely on donations directly to my campaign if I can ever hope to offset the monetary advantage you guys have from political action committees"

the GOP refused.
 

Wow, I feel sorry for the host. Some people just cannot be argued with, apparently.

Still, I guess the argument that he is trying (and failing miserably) to make is that the states should be economically autonomous. We all know (or should know) that the way the US works, this is totally unfeasible and it hasn't been like that for centuries. Still, the discussion about the "states' rights" people's point of view has got me thinking lately, as a European.

There has been a trend in the European Union to move towards federalism, what with the Euro, changes to the EU constitution, reaction to the Euro crisis and so forth. In these matters a lot of people (including me) in many countries (Scandinavian countries + UK for example) are really against this, as it puts the power further from the people, into the hands of bureaucrats in Brussels. At the same time, in a lot of European countries >90 % of the population (rightly) ridicules the Republican party for their positions and just hope for a massive victory for the Dems in November so that the US can stop stalling, and finally help put the world economy back into gear.

So does that make us into hypocrites? Replace Brussels with Washington and our sentiments about making the EU into a federation mirror that of many conservatives in the US regarding the role of the US federal government. Are Sweden and the UK the European equivalent of crazy Southern states in the US? I can think of a few arguments as to why this wouldn't be the case, but I would be interested to hear the thoughts of PoliGAF on this matter.
 
I believe that was because Obama sought a gentleman's agreement with McCain and the RNC that if both candidates accepted public funding, they would also do everything they could to reign in the PACs.
I didn't follow the debate surrounding that very closely myself, so I don't know the exact details there, but I'm not surprised Romney would leave out crucial facts in order to make Obama look worse.
 

RDreamer

Member
Wow, I feel sorry for the host. Some people just cannot be argued with, apparently.

Still, I guess the argument that he is trying (and failing miserably) to make is that the states should be economically autonomous. We all know (or should know) that the way the US works, this is totally unfeasible and it hasn't been like that for centuries. Still, the discussion about the "states' rights" people's point of view has got me thinking lately, as a European.

There has been a trend in the European Union to move towards federalism, what with the Euro, changes to the EU constitution, reaction to the Euro crisis and so forth. In these matters a lot of people (including me) in many countries (Scandinavian countries + UK for example) are really against this, as it puts the power further from the people, into the hands of bureaucrats in Brussels. At the same time, in a lot of European countries >90 % of the population (rightly) ridicules the Republican party for their positions and just hope for a massive victory for the Dems in November so that the US can stop stalling, and finally help put the world economy back into gear.

So does that make us into hypocrites? Replace Brussels with Washington and our sentiments about making the EU into a federation mirror that of many conservatives in the US regarding the role of the US federal government. Are Sweden and the UK the European equivalent of crazy Southern states in the US? I can think of a few arguments as to why this wouldn't be the case, but I would be interested to hear the thoughts of PoliGAF on this matter.

If you're going to give up monetary sovereignty, then it is my opinion that you NEED a united governing mechanism (federalism) to make it work. If not you get a huge crisis like what's going on now. I think the rich and poor countries in Europe aren't much more unequal than the rich and poor states here, but it works here because we have a government that puts money where it's needed. If not then Mississippi or whatever would be like Greece.
 
Wouldn't public finding make it easier to oust her, since a challenger would be on equal footing, rather than her getting crazy moneys from crazy people everywhere?

It's the principle of her getting taxpayer/my money to enable her crazy Also people shouldn't be able to be on equal footing/getting funding just by getting the nod for their party.
 
If you're going to give up monetary sovereignty, then it is my opinion that you NEED a united governing mechanism (federalism) to make it work. If not you get a huge crisis like what's going on now. I think the rich and poor countries in Europe aren't much more unequal than the rich and poor states here, but it works here because we have a government that puts money where it's needed. If not then Mississippi or whatever would be like Greece.

This post.

Exactly.

I would like to add that putting Greece at the mercy of crippling austerity reforms which just further exacerbates unemployment in that country also isn't the answer! I mean at this point, Brussels would provide better leadership for your society than Germany is presently doing.
 

thatbox

Banned
[url=http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/09/25/906051/ryan-preventing-gay-people-from-marrying-is-a-universal-human-value/]Paul Ryan[/url] said:
Paul Ryan reiterated his opposition to marriage equality, during a town hall in Cincinnati, Ohio on Tuesday. “The things you talk about like traditional marriage and family and entrepreneurship. These aren’t values that are indicative to any one person or creed or color. These are American values, these are universal human values,” he said in response to a question from the audience.

Bigotry is a universal human value. We're all fundamentally broken :(
 

Amir0x

Banned
Romney says teacher's unions shouldn't be able to make political contributions.

"They aren't giving me money, so they shouldn't be able to give anyone money."

Putting aside the superpac people who are now giving so much cash to Mitt Romney's cause and Republican causes (I think it's like 10:1 or some shit) - and TOTALLY SEPARATE AS WE ALL KNOW - that they are literally able to change the direction of his campaign with winks and nods (what could possibly be a greater "conflict of interest" than that?), what does he think a political contribution is exactly? People and organizations like this give money so that they can, in their mind, influence perhaps the direction the country moves in. And in the post-"corporations are people too, my friend" world, he cannot be serious.

The irony is so rich and creamy I think I got a cavity just from pondering it.

SIDE NOTE:

Also, I hope when Joe Walsh loses, at his concession speech, Obama hides in the crowd and abruptly interrupts:

"YOU LIE--er, LOSE, i mean!"
 

Amir0x

Banned
she is qualified because she is pretty hot. we all know the truth there about her 'value' as a pundit.

she is a self-loathing atheist who appears to support christian fundamentalist encroachment on government for sheer fact that they are picked on, in her estimation. she is nuts, in other words.
 
WasPo has Obama up 4 in Florida and 8 in Ohio. Gallup up to +3 and Ras even +1.

lol.

PPP up 9 for Obama in Nevada.

This is the last week before the debate Romney can turn things around. Obama can effectively end the election at the 1st debate. If it goes well, the money will dry up for Mittens in a hot minute.

edit: Obama + 15 in florida in handling the future of medicare. LOL
 
This is the last week before the debate Romney can turn things around. Obama can effectively end the election at the 1st debate. If it goes well, the money will dry up for Mittens in a hot minute.
At this point you'd think that Obama would be prepared for every riposte Romney could reasonably use on the issues, meaning that Obama's statements can be crafted to cut Romney off at the pass from the very get-go.

11th dimensional chess and all that. Gotta think a few moves ahead, box your opponent in, apply pressure, and take advantage of mistakes.
 
WasPo has Obama up 4 in Florida and 8 in Ohio. Gallup up to +3 and Ras even +1.

lol.

PPP up 9 for Obama in Nevada.

This is the last week before the debate Romney can turn things around. Obama can effectively end the election at the 1st debate. If it goes well, the money will dry up for Mittens in a hot minute.

edit: Obama + 15 in florida in handling the future of medicare. LOL

Obama's thuggery of pollsters knows no bounds. No bounds!
 
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