Rocket Scientist
Member
Things like this election show how education and succes don't mean that much really. Apparently you can be an idiot and still make millions of dollars. Makes me wish I was an idiot.
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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down
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benjipwns
Banned
I know, just had to when I saw you put it that way.
I don't know why you guys are all talking about Romney like this, he's on track to get 301 electoral votes with a popular vote landslide based on the unskewed polls.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
But you need to be a wealthy idiot. Key point.
Rocket Scientist
Member
I completely forgot about that. Makes the whole thing even sadder really.
Black Mamba
Member
Romney isn't an idiot. Dude just is willing to say anything to become President.
He's a microcosm of the current state of the GOP. Completely out of touch with the median voter from within an isolated bubble.
Intelligence isn't the issue, it's perspective. I guarantee if you had a 1 on 1 meeting with him, you'd come away thinking he was highly intelligent (perhaps still a greedy fuck, but that is besides the point.
He's a microcosm of the current state of the GOP. Completely out of touch with the median voter from within an isolated bubble.
Intelligence isn't the issue, it's perspective. I guarantee if you had a 1 on 1 meeting with him, you'd come away thinking he was highly intelligent (perhaps still a greedy fuck, but that is besides the point.
benjipwns
Banned
I'm not sure I agree with either of these.
EDIT: Mamba, you of all people deserve better than a short reply.
1. I don't think he aligns with the GOP base and that's why he's suffering. Does he represent the GOP elite? Of course. The Tea Party types will ride Sarah Palin to 30%, working 24/7. Will they lift a finger for Romney's 44%? Maybe a few. They didn't turn out for McCain or Dole like both of those campaigns expected. Rove and Bush knew they needed to draw those people out. They've been skeptical of Romney for five years, this isn't going to change overnight, especially after the success they had in 2010.
2. I think Romney would tell me what I wanted to hear and one-on-one that's easy to make him look stupid.
Black Republican
Member
Charlie Gibson saying Obama will win http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/charlie-gibson-barack-obama-going-win
no way at those FL numbers, no no no no no, and i love Qunnipiac polls.
Mittens isnt that terrible, just really bad.
no way at those FL numbers, no no no no no, and i love Qunnipiac polls.
Mittens isnt that terrible, just really bad.
benjipwns
Banned
This election was over before it started, look at the people who ran.
Black Mamba
Member
The bigger problem for McCain was not the base but rather the latino vote. I mean sure, McCain didn't get as much as he'd want but everyone knew they lost the election going into election day because of the economy. The only "hope" was people being more racist in private than public.
And Dole was going to lose and everyone knew that months in advance. Voter turnout was down as a result. I don't think it's fair to compare that one. Dole was a sacrificial lamb.
Bush ran as a compassionate conservative. Yes, Rove did a hell of a job creating a rabid base that would march to orders for him, but Bush closed the latino gap immensely and also brought in a lot of independents. This shouldn't be glossed over.
And of course, in 2004 it was the Dems were were running an anti-Bush campaign rather than an actual policy ala Romney today (which I've argued here is something you cannot do. You have to provide an alternative plan).
So I don't dispute that he doesn't align with the base and I agree they're apprehensive but these guys hate Obama so much. And not like "oh man, I hate the Miami Heat." More like, "I hate Clay Bennett." If this election is winnable, those people are coming out in droves to put Mitt in office.
I stand by my claim that they don't understand the median voter. It is why they propose an insane tax policy, why they continue to put up vouchers for medicare/SS as policy, why they are so far behind on social issues like gay marriage, why they really think people want to hear about war drums for Iran, etc. The party as a whole does not represent the median voter anymore. If the economy was better right now, they'd lose this election in a massive landslide. It is the only reason independents are still coming to Mitt at all because a lot of voters only look at their current situation and vote based on that. I'd also like to point out they treat the median voter like they're mentally handicapped. This is why Bill Clinton is so loved - in his speech he treated people like they're smart. People respond better to that. The GOP doesn't understand regular folk anymore unless they're bigoted regular folk.
Watching Fox News for a bit makes this all the more obvious. Fox News doesn't just pander to their base, they are trying to sell Mitt to the undecideds. And the narrative they push demonstrates how badly out of step most of them are (funny enough, I think O'Reilly is the only one there smart enough to not get caught up in that). Fox News back in 2000 was so different than today. So much smarter.
I was speaking more in like you're at a social function and you meet each other and just talk like any 2 people who never met before do and you don't know he's some famous person. A casual conversation, not in a setting where he's trying to earn your vote.
Black Republican
Member
http://www.nationaljournal.com/poli...g-leads-in-florida-ohio-pennsylvania-20120926
lol, ok then forget minorities, if Obamas only down by 6 points with white voters in FL compared to his 19 point margin before the conventions, Romney is fucking toast.
#senttodie
benjipwns
Banned
Cut your post, not necessarily replying, you know our Best-GAF.
I wasn't really talking about any of that, although it's a good post. I'm talking about the Rove and Bush idea that they HAD to turn out the religious right, etc.
I think McCain obviously bombed in that, and Romney isn't doing well.
They'll turn out, but will they turn out enough?
The Bush camp was afraid they wouldn't in 2004 despite being mostly up in the polls for most of the race.
It's part of Romney is fucked. As you note and many others, he wants to defend the good parts of ObamaCare, throw the "gays" a bone, etc. But he needs that swath that hasn't liked him for five years now.
He can't do the Clinton, everybody loves me! He's never been that skilled.
I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd8KQDMZ21w
Romney did his bachelors at BYU and got both his JD and his MBA from Harvard. He is in no way uneducated.
Hell, his educational background is what put him on the path to success. Mitt Romney should be the familial legacy story the GOP trumpets from the roof tops. His father started out with basically nothing, worked his ass off, became a successful CEO and governor. He then made sure his son got into all the best schools and had all the best opportunities to succeed, which his son made full use of to make himself wildly successful. That's the bridge that the GOP claims familial wealth builds when they want to argue down estate taxes.
Its fucking sad that Romney can't even get THAT story through to people. He's completely unrelated and is only running out of a sense of entitlement and the belief that his father was railroaded out of the race.
Here's a good article from Matt Taibi (as usual) talking about something I wanted to mention myself:
This Presidential Race Should Never Have Been This Close
This Presidential Race Should Never Have Been This Close
They're saying boo-urns!
They are chasing the news cycle looking for an attack that sticks. It's not that they can't stay on message, they have NO message!
Rocket Scientist
Member
Oh I know he's educated in the traditional sense, don't worry. It still doesn't mean that he is actually an intelligent person though, as he has shown time and time again. A legitimately intelligent person would not be running this kind of campaign and would not have the record that he has. I don't believe that he is capable of displaying true intelligence or sophistication.
his dad couldn't have become president ever, right? because he was born in mexico?
palin/ryan 2016
they can run against hillary clinton/michelle obama
That, that would be awesome!
People keep saying he was some incredible turn-around business leader. Judging by the way he's run his campaign, I really can't see how that is true. I suspect he somewhat fluked into his business success due to the opportunities that a rich and connected father gave him.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=42518715#post42518715
bwahahaha. no trolling there, amirite?
Rocket Scientist
Member
I feel similarly. Democrats should definitely bring out the ''If he can't run a campaign, how is he going to run a country?'' ads if his campaign keeps imploding.
Black Republican
Member
i too wish South Carolina was polled more, maybe some moderate voters from other states that moved to SC could swing the state in future elections a la NC?
If his campaign keeps imploding the dems should refocus on more winnable senate races.
benjipwns
Banned
Should've voted Alvin Greene!
Rocket Scientist
Member
That too, yes. I think there's limits on how you can use your funds though, but I'm not sure if that would pose a problem if it turns out Dem's want to focus on House seats more.
Obama isn't a bad debater. (Although I expect Romney to hold his own in a head-to-head. They will most likely both do a decent enough job that the pundits will call it a tie.)
But if you think that Obama is the best debater in a generation, you need to take a step back and re-examine your devotion to this man. You are positively deluded.
More importantly, is there anywhere - aside from that Princeton Election Consortium page - that has some detailed info on the state of the House vote?
But if you think that Obama is the best debater in a generation, you need to take a step back and re-examine your devotion to this man. You are positively deluded.
More importantly, is there anywhere - aside from that Princeton Election Consortium page - that has some detailed info on the state of the House vote?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Nope no trolling. You keep trying and failing miserably.
Black Republican
Member
Poor Wall Street execs
INTRADE: Obama 3:1 (75 / 25) over Romney right now.
INTRADE: Obama 3:1 (75 / 25) over Romney right now.
The Chosen One
Member
Tim Pawlenty and John Huntsmen would be performing better than Romney right now.
Sure both are moderates (TPaw less so), but both are capable of relating to the average voter better than Romney. I doubt either would have had so many transparency issues as well.
I guarantee the polls would be much tighter if either of those guys ran. However Romney destroyed TPaw early on via Super Pacs and the GOP base never gave Huntsman the time of day.
They basically chose between Tea Party loons and an out of touch Wall Street guy who has zero convictions. The GOP have no one to blame but themselves for highlighting joke characters in the primary. If they weren't touting nutcases like Hermain Cain, Bachmann, and Perry, then Romney wouldn't have looked as legit. Romney would have been exposed as he was in '08.
Sure both are moderates (TPaw less so), but both are capable of relating to the average voter better than Romney. I doubt either would have had so many transparency issues as well.
I guarantee the polls would be much tighter if either of those guys ran. However Romney destroyed TPaw early on via Super Pacs and the GOP base never gave Huntsman the time of day.
They basically chose between Tea Party loons and an out of touch Wall Street guy who has zero convictions. The GOP have no one to blame but themselves for highlighting joke characters in the primary. If they weren't touting nutcases like Hermain Cain, Bachmann, and Perry, then Romney wouldn't have looked as legit. Romney would have been exposed as he was in '08.
getting missouri and arizona in addition to north carolina would kinda be something.
why? what happened? it's that liberal media again, isn't it.
Black Republican
Member
anyone here from Iowa early voting tomorrow? cant wait to see pics of the lines
A lot of that comes from Obama debating the entire Republican house of representatives in 2009, and handing them their collective asses at their own function.
Obama the debater is pretty damn good. I don't think he could beat Bill Clinton or Reagan, but he could definitely smash the modern Republican party.
The Chosen One
Member
In a debate format, Obama isn't as quick on his feet as say Clinton or Newt. Obama is more methodical, which means he rarely hits homeruns, but also it means he rarely makes any critical mistakes. He doesn't get flustered. If anything in the Dem primaries in '08, he got in trouble when he was a little too over confident (ie. "Hilary you're likable enough...").
The Librarian
Banned
Basileus777
Member
A big bump in the polls after he thrashed Bush?
benjipwns
Banned
If what Kerry got is a big bump, what is Obama enjoying?
I think that is a fair analysis.
From that Bloomberg poll - it is incredible that Romney still leads as the candidate most voters favor to 'create jobs', and yet he is behind in the polls by such huge margins.
This election was supposed to be about the economy, damn it!
As someone who lives in FL, it just blows me away that Obama is leading here. Our state legislature has had a republican super majority for as long as I can remember, we've had republican governors for as long a I can remember - including just recently electing Rick Scott (of all people) to the office. 2008 felt like a fluke to me, much like Indiana was. All I see are Romney bumper stickers and yard signs everywhere I look while listening to the local radio personalities talk about how they think Romney was spot on with his 47% comments.
But then again I live in Sarasota County, which looking at electoral maps is one of the most solid red counties in Florida, one that hasn't voted for a democrat in a presidential election in for fucking ever. No idea why though, we're not a rural county, though we do have a lot of wealth. It just feels like a young, artsy, urban community to me, a place where support for Obama should be thriving.
But then again I live in Sarasota County, which looking at electoral maps is one of the most solid red counties in Florida, one that hasn't voted for a democrat in a presidential election in for fucking ever. No idea why though, we're not a rural county, though we do have a lot of wealth. It just feels like a young, artsy, urban community to me, a place where support for Obama should be thriving.
Basileus777
Member
Kerry was behind after the conventions and a summer of Swiftboat attacks, the debates helped him pull it even and turn it into an extremely close race. Kerry isn't really the best example to use here.
benjipwns
Banned
Reverse the party labels...
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