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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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S

Snake

Member
Hitokage said:
For good.
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ibuXGHh40EjoTq.gif
 
P

pigeon

Banned
matthewwhatever said:
The best discussion I saw about this was from Jonathan Chait:
Click to expand...

The real problem for Romney isn't even that he said it, it's that he immediately gave a presser where he stood by it. There was a magical moment where he could've wiggled out of it if he were a skillful politician (although, of course, a skillful politician would never have said it). But now it's not a question of what he says in private versus public, because he already said in public that he believes what he said in private.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
pigeon said:
Just a little anecdote about Romney's widely admired ability to connect with the workaday voter:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...7f9a80-0895-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_print.html

Backpats to TNR for the link.
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It's because Mitt and Ann do things like saying that they struggled through their early adulthood and college years together because they sold some stocks to pay for a house, tuition, bills, etc, when Mitt was attending BYU.

"A few thousand dollars" worth of principal contributions to investments that George Romney made from 1948-1965 in Mitt's name, averaging $6 a share when they were bought, that were sold at $96 a share. Assuming the "few thousand dollars" in purchases were ALL made in 1965 to minimize the effects of inflation, that still means that, inflation adjusted, George Romney invested over $20k in Mitt's name.

considering the stock rose from $6 a share to $96 a share, that means that when Romney began studying at BYU in 1969, he had more than the modern day equivalent of $300,000 in just one company as a college student, all given to him by his dad.

Tuition for BYU in 1969 when Romney went there was $215 for LDS members like him.
http://yfacts.byu.edu/article?id=85


What cost $215 in 1969 would cost $1263.96 in 2010

Or in other words...

Using inflation-adjusted monetary amounts, When Mitt Romney began attending BYU in 1969, he had at least $300,000 worth of shares in just one company (shares that had been given to him by his dad), an unknown number of other assets and investments, and tuition of just over $1000. Yet he and his wife think they were struggling because they actually had to liquidate some of the shares Mitt owned to pay for some things.

The problem is that he and his wife think they understand the struggles others go through, but they really don't. In their early 20s, they were able to start a family, purchase a house entirely with cash, go to school, all while maintaining no debt, travelling somewhat regularly, avoiding the draft, paying for CF treatment, not needing to have jobs, and having hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash and financial assets to their name after all of this. That is not struggling. That is literally the biggest burden, the largest pile of responsibilities a young adult can take upon themselves, but the romneys were able to do it while avoiding debt, a military draft, without employment, and without draining their bank accounts.

That is as priviledged a life as you're going to find. Not struggling. They have no clue what struggling means. Struggling means not being able to do what you want. Struggling means digging yourself out of a hole. Struggling means forgoing food and sleep and working 12-16 hours just to survive, or not having a roof over your head at all. It means pushing yourself emotionally and physically beyond your limits out of necessity to survive, and then, somehow, taking on every new challenge, obstacle, and burden life throws your way.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
The Romney campaign believes their candidate needs to show empathy with Americans' economic troubles in the first presidential debate Wednesday, advisers to Mitt Romney told National Review. In debate prep, Romney has practiced coming across as personable and may share stories from the trail about people who have been hit hard during the recession.

From National Review:

Romney’s advisers have a simple strategy: They want their candidate to balance his finely tuned arguments with personal warmth. Since Romney is a reserved man, his advisers acknowledge that it will be difficult for him to endear himself to the country, especially under the hot studio lights. But they consider it critical. “This is really about introducing him to the country,” a Romney adviser says. “It’s the largest audience he has ever had. Everybody’s watching.”

During prep sessions in Vermont this past month, Romney has worked tirelessly on the stylistic aspect of his presentation, and Romney’s advisers predict that the former Massachusetts governor will come across as both presidential and empathetic. Rather than fire off brusque retorts, as he often did during primary debates, Romney will take care “to speak in paragraphs about the economy,” a second aide says.
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http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/advisers-say-romney-will-show-empathy-in-debate

I'm pretty sure you're losing when you have to promise that your candidate will show empathy
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I would have preferred for Kosmo, Manos, etc to at least survive for election day. I doubt they would have done any irreparable harm to the forum between now and then
 
W

watershed

Banned
R

RDreamer

Member
PhoenixDark said:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/advisers-say-romney-will-show-empathy-in-debate

I'm pretty sure you're losing when you have to promise that your candidate will show empathy
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Oh, now the debates are about introducing him to the American public. Too bad they didn't have a chance to do that earlier. Then they could spend time in the debates not introducing. They should really schedule something earlier in the campaign season for that. Maybe like a convention or something? I dunno.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
pigeon said:
Monday: Zingers!
Tuesday: Empathy!

How can they be flipflopping on SECRET LEAKS ABOUT ROMNEY'S DEBATE STRATEGY
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It's probably to try to throw off the Obama campaign to make them not know how Romney will act at the debate to make it harder for him to prepare.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
The Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/02/u...hore-strategies-grew-romneys-wealth.html?_r=1
Offshore Tactics Helped Increase Romneys’ Wealth

Buried deep in the tax returns released by Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign are references to dozens of offshore holdings with names like Ursa Funding (Luxembourg) S.à.r.l. and Sankaty Credit Opportunities Investors (Offshore) IV, based in the Cayman Islands.

Mr. Romney, responding to opponents’ barbs about his use of overseas tax havens, has offered a narrow defense, saying only that the investments, many made through the private equity firm he founded, Bain Capital, have yielded him “not one dollar of reduction in taxes.”

A review of thousands of pages of financial documents and interviews with tax lawyers found that in some cases, the offshore arrangements enabled his individual retirement account to avoid taxes on its investments and may well have reduced Mr. Romney’s personal income tax bills.

But perhaps a more significant impact of Mr. Romney’s offshore investments has been on the profit side of the ledger — in the way Bain’s tax-avoidance strategies have enhanced his income.

Some of the offshore entities enabled Bain-owned companies to sidestep certain taxes, increasing returns for Mr. Romney and other investors. Others helped Bain attract foreign investors and nonprofit institutions by insulating them from taxes, again augmenting Mr. Romney’s bottom line, since he shared in management fees based on the size of each Bain fund.
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In other words, Romney is a liar. Not shocking.

The debate tomorrow will be fun.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
It was a silly lie to begin with. If you're using an offshore tax haven, of course you're going to see a lowering of your taxes. That's the reason they exist.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Baraka in the White House said:
Hell I love it. It was so cathartic to witness Manos' bullshit fall down around him and watch him squirm to reprhase, "NO U" in pithy ways.
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Yeah, I'm not going to feel bad.

I ate a 2 month ban because Manos went into one of his "I will never stop" modes against me because I posted a picture from a website that contained other stories that were bad. As if other unrelated stories somehow invalidated the picture I posted.

Manos gets caught with a bad argument (such as the lie in that guns thread that claimed him) and then won't ever admit being in the wrong. We are all wrong at times. If you can't ever admit it, it can be quite frustrating to the people around you.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
GhaleonEB said:
The Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/02/u...hore-strategies-grew-romneys-wealth.html?_r=1

In other words, Romney is a liar. Not shocking.

The debate tomorrow will be fun.
Click to expand...

saying only that the investments, . . . have yielded him “not one dollar of reduction in taxes.”
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Why would he say such a blatant lie? That is so strange. Why else would you send your money to the Cayman Islands? . . . it doesn't need to get a sun tan nor does the money SCUBA dive. All he had to do is say "My private financial matters are private and I follow all applicable laws." Denying that he avoids taxes is just laughable.

Romney is just more interested in making as much money as possible than being President. Fine. But bullshitting us in obvious ways isn't going to make it more like for him to win.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
speculawyer said:
Manos gets caught with a bad argument (or lie in that guns thread that claimed him) and then won't ever admit being in the wrong. We are all wrong at times. If you can't ever admit it, it can be quite frustrating to the people around you.
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He died doing what he loves - talking bullshit about shit he knows nothing about.
Seriously, I wouldn't be shocked if I learned that he never held a gun in his life.

But I think we talked enough about the human thread derail.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
RustyNails said:
Soo...any comments on Romney's flip flop on Dream act?
Edit: Not technically a flip flop...he never had a position on Dream Act, which is surprising.
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He did criticize Obama's executive decision to create a defacto 'mini-dream act'. So it is a bit of a flip-flop. He could claim that he is technically not flip-flopping but then he just appears to be an annoying nitpicker.

I think he is too little, too late with the Etch-a-Sketch shaking. He has got a long history of anti-immigrant positions and rhetoric used to help win the nomination. The ever-shrinking nativist base of the GOP is the GOP's worst enemy.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Loved this part from a CNN article on the PA voter ID outcome:

Corbett said the law "sets a simple and clear standard to protect the integrity of our elections."

However, lawyers on both sides admit there are no known cases of in-person voter fraud.​

The juxtaposition of these two statements highlights the politically driven nature of this law.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Voter ID, which is going to help Romney win Pennsylvania

BOOM, ROASTED.

Weird that they can still ask you, but if you don't need it it's whatever.
 
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