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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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A

adamsappel

Member
Captain Tuttle said:
Great news.

I'm not against Voter ID per se but what pissed me off about the PA Law is how they rammed it through for this years Presidential Elections. People (and the gov't agencies giving ID's) should have the time to get their stuff together.
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Yep. And I doubt we see the fervor over the issue until before elections again. Give a state 2 years to prepare for this, not 2 months.
 
W

watershed

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Voter ID, which is going to help Romney win Pennsylvania

BOOM, ROASTED.

Weird that they can still ask you, but if you don't need it it's whatever.
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I think there might be some shady practices like phone calls telling people to get a state ID and implying that you need one to vote or a whisper misinformation campaign.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Voting standards should be nationalized so that it is the same in every state, and has a paper trail. Period. End of story.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Diablos said:
Voting standards should be nationalized so that it is the same in every state, and has a paper trail. Period. End of story.
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Yeah, I don't see the argument not too. Error on the side of easier to vote, to argue otherwise is... well...
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
What if Obama laid the smackdown by telling people exactly how Bain and others structure themselves in order to decrease their tax liability? In the simplest way possible (lol). Not that that would happen because it would be about more than just Bain, it would be about the whole financial sector. And obviously Obama can't just give them the finger, but a man can dream. I wonder if it'd be possible to explain it in such a way that people would understand upon first hearing and if it would make the go wtf this is bullshit.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
^ far too complex a topic to tackle; debates are aimed at the masses, not nuance.

You've got Americans who still don't understand the idea of progressive taxation and actually believe that businesses are surrendering 35% of their income in taxes to the IRS.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Rocket Scientist said:
What if Obama laid the smackdown by telling people exactly how Bain and others structure themselves in order to decrease their tax liability? In the simplest way possible (lol). Not that that would happen because it would be about more than just Bain, it would be about the whole financial sector. And obviously Obama can't just give them the finger, but a man can dream. I wonder if it'd be possible to explain it in such a way that people would understand upon first hearing and if it would make the go wtf this is bullshit.
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He probably doesn't have to. If Obama says "the New York Times says your Cayman Islands accounts allowed you to evade taxes," and Romney says "no they didn't!," people are going to assume that Obama is right, otherwise why would Romney even have Cayman Islands accounts? This is a question Romney has never been able to answer, because the reality is, they WERE for evading taxes. The burden is on Romney's side to explain it away, not on Obama's to put it forward.
 
Z

Zzoram

Member
CharlieDigital said:
^ far too complex a topic to tackle; debates are aimed at the masses, not nuance.

You've got Americans who still don't understand the idea of progressive taxation and actually believe that businesses are surrendering 35% of their income in taxes to the IRS.
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That's a narrative that Fox News and the GOP keeps pushing. They want people to be confused about how progressive taxation works so they can attack it more easily.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Zzoram said:
That's a narrative that Fox News and the GOP keeps pushing. They want people to be confused about how progressive taxation works so they can attack it more easily.
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After the numerous times we've had the discussions on this topic on NeoGAF, I'm convinced that the general public is clueless about progressive taxes. Maybe ~80% of Americans don't know that we have one and if they do, don't know what it means.
 
Z

Zzoram

Member
The Democrats would gain politically if they only bothered to do an extensive education campaign on how progressive taxation actually works.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
CharlieDigital said:
After the numerous times we've had the discussions on this topic on NeoGAF, I'm convinced that the general public is clueless about progressive taxes. Maybe ~80% of Americans don't know that we have one and if they do, don't know what it means.
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That's because ~50% of them aren't paying taxes!

dont worry lurking Kosmo, I got you here
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Zzoram said:
The Democrats would gain politically if they only bothered to do an extensive education campaign on how progressive taxation actually works.
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Polls show most people support higher taxes on the rich. The problem is that is not reflected nearly as strongly among Dems in Congress (in particular, the Senate).
 
S

speculawyer

Member
CharlieDigital said:
After the numerous times we've had the discussions on this topic on NeoGAF, I'm convinced that the general public is clueless about progressive taxes. Maybe ~80% of Americans don't know that we have one and if they do, don't know what it means.
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This is one of the best things about Mitt Romney running. I think the fact that Mitt paying 13.9% taxes on $20M in income has been eye-opening to a lot of people that don't understand the way our formerly progressive tax system has been changed such that very wealthy people can get away with pretty low tax rates.
 
R

Rocket Scientist

Member
pigeon said:
He probably doesn't have to. If Obama says "the New York Times says your Cayman Islands accounts allowed you to evade taxes," and Romney says "no they didn't!," people are going to assume that Obama is right.
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That's true and condenses the basic point into an understandable soundbite. What would be even better though is if a president, on such a stage as the debates, could convince the people that believe in the job creator myth that it's a load of bullshit and that the game is rigged. While those people are obviously difficult to convince and often die hard believers, maybe a speech discussing the fundemantal brokenness of the system and the fundamental way in which it is rigged in favor of the rich, could prove relatively successful.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
35 days to the election. I don't check the countdown often but....that's not much time at all. The days are flying by now.
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I would take the day off after the election, but I couldn't miss out on making a collection of bottles full of salty tears from coworkers. I'm drinking my ass off that weekend though!
 
P

pigeon

Banned
In honor of ToxicAdam, here's a graph on how the dreaded fiscal cliff would affect everybody's tax bill:

Screen%20Shot%202012-10-01%20at%208.47.44%20PM-thumb-615x273-100514.png


Rocket Scientist said:
That's true and condenses the basic point into an understandable soundbite. What would be even better though is if a president, on such a stage as the debates, could convince the people that believe in the job creator myth that it's a load of bullshit and that the game is rigged. While those people are obviously difficult to convince and often die hard believers, maybe a speech discussing the fundemantal brokenness of the system and the fundamental way in which it is rigged in favor of the rich, could prove relatively successful.
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While I agree in a fundamental sense, I think that this is the wrong time for Obama to take that question on. Next year he can bring Senator Warren on stage to make the case with him.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
speculawyer said:
Wow. I've been thinking that Romney would win VA.

I can't believe they decided to run George "Macaca" Allen. Apparently you have to get thrown in jail to be disqualified these days. They are even providing money to Todd "unlady-like legit rape" Akin now.
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As I said, not sure about poll reliability.

Mostly, Romney being at 39% and Kaine hasn't seen a +10 lead in any polls yet.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
New VA Poll, not sure about reliability

http://wfirnews.com/local-news/roanoke-college-poll-obama-kaine-widen-virginia-leads
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Roanoke College showed Romney leading twice in Virgina in the early part of the year; surrounding polls showed Obama with high single-digit leads. So they could be weirdly inaccurate, or they could have a heavy GOP lean. They were pretty average accuracy-wise in the GOP primaries (predicted Romney 56%, actual result 60%).

edit: Note that that topline number is registered and includes 10% undecided. Likely voters is 49-41 Obama; including leaners in registered voters is 48-40 Obama, 7% not leaning. That's way too high a number to be truly undecided though -- I'd bet a good chunk of those are GOP voters who are currently disillusioned, but will probably go back to Romney before the election. It's still a decent result for Obama though -- even if we assume half the undecideds are actually Romney voters, Obama still has a 4.5 point lead with less than 4.5 truly undecided.
 
S

Sirpopopop

Member
pigeon said:
In honor of ToxicAdam, here's a graph on how the dreaded fiscal cliff would affect everybody's tax bill:

Screen%20Shot%202012-10-01%20at%208.47.44%20PM-thumb-615x273-100514.png




While I agree in a fundamental sense, I think that this is the wrong time for Obama to take that question on. Next year he can bring Senator Warren on stage to make the case with him.
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You look at the "big bars" moving up, and think you won't be hosed.

Then you look at it relatively.

Yeah.... that $633,946 is going to mean a lot less to a CEO than the $1984 will to the middle group.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
HylianTom said:
Obama winning Virginia would make for a really early night. Much better than having to wait for Nevada and Colorado..
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Best election nights have already come and gone this year, where Santorum squeaked ahead of Romney in surprise wins. That was simply gold. Obama Romney election gonna be called in an hour.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Obama is polling behind Bush's 2004 run. This can go either way. The debate is going to make this a pure toss up
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You're really going to keep this up until the exact minute it's called for Obama, huh?

If you're hinging your hopes on Romney's debate performance, well... god bless you, brother.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Plinko said:
Fixed.
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Boring? Really? It'd be a reason to pop open the champagne early! And there would still be plenty of suspense over the House and Senate.

But I can see.. making it a closer race and then watching the GOP fans over on Fox News get their hearts crushed when Colorado comes in for Obama? That I can agree would be more entertaining.. haha..
 
S

speculawyer

Member
RustyNails said:
Best election nights have already come and gone this year, where Santorum squeaked ahead of Romney in surprise wins. That was simply gold. Obama Romney election gonna be called in an hour.
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Bold prediction. I'm still in the "Obama will win as things are but things could still change to favor Mitt" camp. Although the severity of things changing has to be pretty damn big at this point.
 
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