Manmademan
Member
yeah, the new york times fact checks rolling in are not favorable to Romney so far.
But most undecided voters aren't watching this. What clips do the mainstream outlets run with? Do fact checks get any traction?
PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down
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yeah, the new york times fact checks rolling in are not favorable to Romney so far.
But most undecided voters aren't watching this. What clips do the mainstream outlets run with? Do fact checks get any traction?
Yep you can't Sarah Palin your way through debates and expect to be seen in a better light compared to your opponent. You have to steal the moment, put your opponent on the hot seat and create an evocative image that makes you remember it beyond the day it was broadcast. That can come either from something you did or something you forced your opponent into (bad gaffes). Obama is practiced and calm which makes him invisible to those slights but it also made it so he didn't stand out in a meaningful way which is what he is getting hammered on right now on the pundits and blogosphere, but that didn't mean he lost either because he didn't mess it up and he is already winning the election, he didn't need to prove anything to anyone.
So it was up to Romney to make the moment with himself. Instead he looked frantic and acted like a whiny bully at several moments without seizing any moments worthy of remembrance. His 'zinger' comments before heading into the debate might have actually cost him that moment by making people self aware of them, you don't tell people how you plan to do your trick before doing it, they aren't going to be amazed by them anymore. Like I said the only thing people are going to remember tomorrow is the moderator and how horrible he was at controlling the debate format, especially next to Romney who looked like a bully several times during the debate, especially that first "Obama went first so I think I should be able to talk last" comment, that was extremely child like.
You're on a message board talking about politics.
Not a whole lot, people just like to go crazy over shit. I keep saying watch, tomorrow is going to be about the fact checking and all the bull shit, like what happened to Paul Ryan.
That's where the TV ad carpet bomb comes in.
In this election, I think so. It feeds into an existing narrative, and the media is already somewhat comfortable with publicizing fact checks.
PhoenixDark
Banned
bubububububububu
Obama was completely off his game. The only segment he clearly dominated was Medicare. Everything else was a shuffling, rambling performance.
Remember those stories about aides trying to get Obama to shorten his answers? Clearly he didn't listen. At all
I started it an hour late after reading comments here. It struck me as overall boring.
Obama had poor body language, never looking at Mitt Romney, seeming flustered, Mitt Romney was more reserved, but that was smart on his part.
A lot of talk about lies, when can we expect to see that pointed out.
Romney "won" in the sense that he came to the debate more prepared, energetic, and didn't do anything exceedingly awkward. Obama "lost" in the sense that he seemed bored, tired, and too long-winded.
Substantively, Romney just waved his magic wand and white-washed every hole in his supposed plans. Obama attempted to point these out and share his own solutions and accomplishments, but failed to do so in a clear or cohesive manner.
Weak debate all around. Romney should have been the one on the defensive, but benefited from his willingness to bend the facts, and Obama's apparent lack of desire to be there. I don't know if it will move any polls, but it's definitely going to help Romney more than it's going to do anything for Obama.
Substantively, Romney just waved his magic wand and white-washed every hole in his supposed plans. Obama attempted to point these out and share his own solutions and accomplishments, but failed to do so in a clear or cohesive manner.
Weak debate all around. Romney should have been the one on the defensive, but benefited from his willingness to bend the facts, and Obama's apparent lack of desire to be there. I don't know if it will move any polls, but it's definitely going to help Romney more than it's going to do anything for Obama.
Manmademan
Member
Mitt Romney cutting funding for big bird is getting a ton of traction
It's a debate, not a policy paper. Obama's big flaws were that his pause times were way up -- he doesn't usually take nearly that long to formulate his ideas; I agree with Mamba that he let some stuff slip past that he could have safely attacked on; and I had difficulty tracking his thought process in some answers, which is a problem. I'm not asking for red meat here (I guess liberal red meat is tofu), but I think he was pretty passive. Sometimes this came across as calm and Presidential, and I think that looked good. Other times it came across to me as almost checking out.
Again, the attack ads will tear Romney apart, and the fact checkers won't be kind (although it's an open question whether that will make it to the AP lede this time around; hopefully so).
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
I can't wait till the day after the election, then maybe you will be happier
I want the first post in the "Obama re-elected!" thread to be "Bad news for Obama."
Yeah, at least Mitt listens to his aides! Too bad they tell him they shouldn't dictated by facts
Missed the debate, but man those snap polls are ugly.
As with most I doubt we'll see too much movement for a variety of reason, though a missed opportunity to hammer in another nail is just that, and quite unfortunate.
Will be interesting to see how the next few days go. Outsourcing calling out Romney's bs to the fact checkers seems like a suboptimal strategy, and if Obama was playing at "being the adult" that does not have to be at odds w letting Romney claim a bunch of nonsense. Most likely explanation is simply that Obama got out-prepped.
Prove me wrong, next weeks worth of polling.
As with most I doubt we'll see too much movement for a variety of reason, though a missed opportunity to hammer in another nail is just that, and quite unfortunate.
Will be interesting to see how the next few days go. Outsourcing calling out Romney's bs to the fact checkers seems like a suboptimal strategy, and if Obama was playing at "being the adult" that does not have to be at odds w letting Romney claim a bunch of nonsense. Most likely explanation is simply that Obama got out-prepped.
Prove me wrong, next weeks worth of polling.
RoninChaos
Member
Part of leading is presence. That's why Bill Clinton was so good at being a politician. That's why Kennedy was a good politician. Romney came across as more in control. He didn't stutter, and he rattled off shit that the average american is going to believe without question. It's obvious that a good chunk of the facts were on Obama's side, and Romney was just pushing the same narrative that the GOP has for years with Obama, and that's basically "I'm going to repeal what you did, and replace it with something better! But I won't give you any details". Obama stuttered and stumbled when he had the opportunity to slam dunk that mother fucker. THAT's the part that's ridiculous. Romney has given Obama plenty of ammo to just unload, and Obama fired what? 3 shots?
Romney also got the last word. What was funny to me about that was how god damned disrespectful it was when Romney interrupted the moderator every time. EVERY time. A friend of mine was like "Damn, I don't even like Obama but Romney is a smug cock sucker". lol
Black Republican
Member
came back from work and popped to neogaf and twitter for reactions....... I take it Obama played softball then lol
The Librarian
Banned
Yeah. I went to watch this in Lumina theater completely absent of what was going on in this thread or disconnected from my political hub besides a few tweets on Twitter and I wasn't noticing anything "bad" for Obama. Romney did better than I thought he would, but that's about it.
I come back here and everyone's saying Obama's doing terribly, and I'm like, "What?" Sometimes it's good to step out of the bubble.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Ouch
This is something to keep in mind. Romney has three big flaws with the electorate right now:
* They think he doesn't care about them.
* They think he's a liar.
* They think he's kind of a jerk.
He seems to have done okay on caring about people, according to the snap polls. But there are two more legs on that stool, and I don't think he did well on either of those.
Half and half
Member
Interesting. I thought Obama was asleep in the beginning and Romney was aggressive.
I'm rewatching the beginning and Obama looks a lot better. Them expectations.
I'm rewatching the beginning and Obama looks a lot better. Them expectations.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Nothing to worry about right
Nope
Nope.
nope
Yes, this. He was absolutely right about the content of his answers, but he needed to be much more aggressive. Romney was much more hungry and he controlled the debate and kept him on the defensive.
This is a wake up call for Obama. They can't continue to underestimate how badly Mitt Romney wants this. He just lied through his teeth tonight, but he appeared genuine.
I guarantee he'll be on his game the next debate.
RustyNails
Member
Only usual suspects are saying Obama was "terrible".
Obama could've been aggressive, but wasn't.
Mitt Romney isn't gonna get his game changer.
You always wait a few days, always. Snap judgement are hardly ever smart in this sort of situation.
Red Blaster
Member
Lawl Rudy Giuliani on MSNBC going on about the Bush tax cuts and getting snippy
You are right for once.
It's the same damn snap poll that was posted last page.
Since you are pushing the narrative hard, then nope nothing at all to worry about
RoninChaos
Member
I'd agree with that. Look at how he treated the moderator.
If the Obama campaign doesn't start pointing that kind of shit out hardcore starting tomorrow, then Romney can seize on this and run with it.
Dominican Power
Member
Giuliani is such a clown.
worldrunover
Member
Obama played the role of Santonio Holmes falling to the ground while pitching the ball to the other team.
Just kidding... but barely.
It's that Romney did better than people thought and the media will eat that up for the next couple of days. I don't trust the polls, I think people are quick to change their mind.
Its the off topic section of a forum devoted to games. Debate thread reminded me of E3 during conferences. I was watching the debate with some family friends who are not normally into politics. The ultimate word on the street isn't "Who won the debate?" it was "This is really, really boring". Nothing from either candidate seem to grab them, it was a dull affair which by default even if Romney "won' from the punditry, partisan sphere it accounts for nothing on how lingering it lasts in the mind of the average voter and ultimately as far as the election is concerned is by default a 'win' for Obama with time running out. Another article mentioned before the debate the game plan for Obama that he had in the 2008 debate and it mimics this debate. He is playing second half basketball with a 28 point lead. Waste the clock down, don't make any mistakes, and let time beat your opponent by not giving him many or any opportunities for quick points.
Dominican Power
Member
Dark Phoenix rises? WTF
If you aren't panicking you shouldn't be here
Does anyone really need to be told, once again, that this debate was NOT a game changer?
Romney will gain in the polls, no doubt, but not change the game. That's the point.
Yea, Romney won this one. Yup. Such a bad result for the president.
talisayNon
Member
fuck obama is so fucked omy fuck 4 years of fucking bain capital fuck
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