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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down
- Thread starter pigeon
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I'm reading a lot of panic from Dems that Obama wasn't aggressive enough. I recall reading the same panic last time around.
The fundamentals of the race were never going to be changed one way or the other, but I am kind of amused by it all. Still, I had hoped Obama would be more aggressive. But that's because I fucking hate Romney.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Romney went from 30 to 63% on that. So,l the gap is now a lot less, 69-63.
Obviously this is among a group of 523 voters, unscientific poll. Will love to see proper poll numbers later.
I wouldn't call it a game changer but tonight energized the Republican base. Remember a couple of days ago that Mitt was having fundraising problems, tonight solved them.
How the fuck do you cut through it when he just repeats "Nuh uh" over and over again? The whole thing was maddening. Obama hit him on a few things, and all he could say in return is "Nuh uh, that's untrue, because I said I wouldn't do that." How do you explain that someone's spouting nonsense when they keep doing it?
I rest my case.
eBay Huckster
Member
I'm going to love seeing the polls shift by 1% over the next week.
Exactly... it's hard to debate someone who willingly lies and rushes to the center after a year of doing the opposite. The onus is on the media to call that out.
Red Blaster
Member
Wait until the unbiased Dick Morris polls come out
Romney +68
more PD fud
David Gergen on CNN called this out, saying Obama looked shocked that Romney would straight up lie his ass off.
Dude Abides
Banned
I don't know how GAF somehow convinced itself that Obama is some kind of awesome debater when that's actually his worst aspect as a political candidate, particularly in this kind of setup. He'll probably do better in the town hall style one.
Nonsense. You can call them out directly. Bush made Gore into a liar even when he wasn't one.
Nonsense. You can call them out directly. Bush made Gore into a liar even when he wasn't one.
I think they're just shocked Obama literally attacked on none of the big narrative issues that he has been pushing all campaign. It's like campaign Obama evaporated into muddled unsure Obama.
But, it's not going to change the game. So many people are already decided, and the last few people - even if MOST go to Romney - the result is going to have to be even more central in Ohio, where if he loses it's over. And he has a considerable deficit to overcome, with Early Voting underway.
The Librarian
Banned
Yet you're still panicking over it all the same.
Good lord, if it's going to be like this after every debate, I think I'm just going to step out of this thread until a couple of days after the last debate. Yeesh.
PhoenixDark
Banned
The point is that Romney significantly lowered the gap on empathy - which was his goal going into the debate. Obama jumped 13%, Romney jumped more than 30%.
Romney comes out better than he went in, and achieved every goal he tried to reach (well, outside of Medicare, which I think he fumbled pretty bad). We can pretend like debates don't matter, or we can look at the facts. Kerry clearly won his first debate against Bush, who also went in over confident and bored. And I'd imagine Dax or someone will retort that Bush still won. That's true. But Kerry only lost by a few thousand votes in one state. Obama has not completely pulled away from Romney in most of the swing states. This is not over.
eBay Huckster
Member
Media that will promptly get whined at for liberal bias because they committed the cardinal sin of correcting bullshit.
StickSoldier
Member
So will the mediator be the same next time?
Proper numbers won't reflect the bump you see Mitt getting here and if they do it won't be for more than a week.
eBay Huckster
Member
Yes, I agree; for all the chicken littles in here, let's look at the facts again, shall we?
Something approaching statistical significance in one case.
Dems/forum goers want a slaughter of Romney and wanted Obama to be that person to beat him while he was down for the count. Obama isn't and will never be that type of person. Think the chilloutigothis.jpg is needed lol, he is winning and the only surprise tonight is Romney not putting his foot in his mouth while speaking to an audience which no matter how you look at it is invisible optics that won't be remembered at all beyond this week.
Different every time
Candy Crowley from CNN. That'll be focused on foreign policy.
Oh goody.
slightconfuse
Banned
hope she fairs better than old jimmy
PhoenixDark
Banned
Andrew Sullivan summed it up well
The entire strategy made no sense. Guess what, when Obama comes out the gate next time attacking the general response will be that he's desperate. That's why you set the narrative FIRST, and leave your opponent scrambling for another blueprint.
I'm listening to Plouffe right now saying the strategy was "storytelling" just like at the conventions. A debate is not a convention, what is your problem?
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/10/obama-supporters-which-obama-was-that.php
The entire strategy made no sense. Guess what, when Obama comes out the gate next time attacking the general response will be that he's desperate. That's why you set the narrative FIRST, and leave your opponent scrambling for another blueprint.
I'm listening to Plouffe right now saying the strategy was "storytelling" just like at the conventions. A debate is not a convention, what is your problem?
Candy Crowley will be good. It seems she is not happy with the lack of detail by both candidates since the convention.
My final analysis is that this debate won't move the needle too much for the simple fact that most people have already made up their minds on who they'll vote for. Doesn't mean Romney won't gain a bit, but it won't be such a massive shift that Obama's now running behind or that OH or WI will slip away.
cartoon_soldier
Member
And with that...I am out.
That's funny because I heard Romney's entire debate at the GOP convention
Good.
No, it's not focused on foreign policy. It's a townhall style debate focused on domestic policy with some foreign policy discussion.
The foreign policy debate is October 22
eBay Huckster
Member
aw yeah, setting up a "SECOND DEBATE: CAN OBAMA COME BACK???" narrative
PhoenixDark
Banned
Yes, I agree; for all the chicken littles in here, let's look at the facts again, shall we?
Something approaching statistical significance in one case.
I'm not concerned about national polls. There are swing states right now that are still determining who to support - that's what I'm concerned about.
You go: "That's not what your campaign ads say, that's not what you said in your speeches, that's not what you said in your fundraisers, and NOTHING that you can EVER say in THIS DEBATE can change the fact that you will say whatever it suits your current situation and will flip flop the next day" I was waiting for something like that from Obama all debate long but it never came.
Ah, my bad. Mixed those up. Thanks for the correction!
And with that I want out of this fucking country. Romney's a snake oil salesman. He's a fraud in more ways than most other politicians.
eBay Huckster
Member
A 1% shift nationally is not going to magically have him losing every swing state or even enough to get him under 270, especially given the leads he's been building up in every single one of them.
Including my home state, where he's about to have an insurmountable early voting lead.
RustyNails
Member
Here's my take. Anyone who wanted policy from Romney went home empty handed. Obama effectively showed the world that Romney has no plans. His only plan is to repeal Obamacare, repeal Frank Dodd, replace medicare with vouchercare. When Obama paused and asked, the reason why Mitt wasn't sharing his plan is because if it's too good for the middle class, it was the highlight.
Of course the pundits and media whine piss and moan. They wanted fireworks. They wanted 47%, Bain and Outsourcing. Problem is, people already know the answers to those. That's not policy, that's the stuff of ads. Mitt Romney simply won theatrics with his well rehearsed lines and untruths, whereas Obama clearly made his case for reelection.
Of course the pundits and media whine piss and moan. They wanted fireworks. They wanted 47%, Bain and Outsourcing. Problem is, people already know the answers to those. That's not policy, that's the stuff of ads. Mitt Romney simply won theatrics with his well rehearsed lines and untruths, whereas Obama clearly made his case for reelection.
And are the swing state polls saying right now? Swings states say.....Ohio?
Oh please this will change nothing in IA or OH, and at this point Obama needs what one more of the 5-7 up for grabs to lock it down
And we need an applause gif for cartoon_soldier bailing
el retorno
Member
are we supposed to panic yet?
ViperVisor
Member
10 Point shift in every poll incoming 538-0 Willard
Panic for some, miniature American flags for others.
Yes, didn't Diablos and cartoon_soldier and 1/2 of GAF already convince you to panic lol
no but that's not stopping the usual suspects.
Naah.. If anything, go to 270towin.com, tweak the map a bit, and then laugh maniacally at those still thinking that Romney has a chance.
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