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PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down

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P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Dax01 said:
Glass-Steagall repeal.
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Wouldn't Glass-Steagall have been repealed even if Clinton vetoed it? I thought it was backed pretty well in Congress.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Dax01 said:
Glass-Steagall repeal.
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Indeed this is what I was thinking the article would mention, too.

Anyway, the point of that article is the same is this more specific article, that budget surpluses are not good for our economy

2. With one brief exception, the federal government has been in debt every year since 1776. In January 1835, for the first and only time in U.S. history, the public debt was retired, and a budget surplus was maintained for the next two years in order to accumulate what Treasury Secretary Levi Woodbury called “a fund to meet future deficits.” In 1837 the economy collapsed into a deep depression that drove the budget into deficit, and the federal government has been in debt ever since. Since 1776 there have been exactly seven periods of substantial budget surpluses and significant reduction of the debt. From 1817 to 1821 the national debt fell by 29 percent; from 1823 to 1836 it was eliminated (Jackson’s efforts); from 1852 to 1857 it fell by 59 percent, from 1867 to 1873 by 27 percent, from 1880 to 1893 by more than 50 percent, and from 1920 to 1930 by about a third. Of course, the last time we ran a budget surplus was during the Clinton years. I do not know any household that has been able to run budget deficits for approximately 190 out of the past 230-odd years, and to accumulate debt virtually nonstop since 1837.

3. The United States has also experienced six periods of depression. The depressions began in 1819, 1837, 1857, 1873, 1893, and 1929. (Do you see any pattern? Take a look at the dates listed above.) With the exception of the Clinton surpluses, every significant reduction of the outstanding debt has been followed by a depression, and every depression has been preceded by significant debt reduction. The Clinton surplus was followed by the Bush recession, a speculative euphoria, and then the collapse in which we now find ourselves. The jury is still out on whether we might manage to work this up to yet another great depression. While we cannot rule out coincidences, seven surpluses followed by six and a half depressions (with some possibility for making it the perfect seven) should raise some eyebrows. And, by the way, our less serious downturns have almost always been preceded by reductions of federal budget deficits. I don’t know of any case of a national depression caused by a household budget surplus.
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B

Black Mamba

Member
the budget surplus didn't pay down debt, though. It included SS taxes which went to buy gov't debt.

The gov't still had to borrow to pay off its total expenditures.
 
C

Cubsfan23

Banned
Whenever I dream about a future sports event or news event, the opposite always happens in real life


I dreamed the jobs report was disastrous a couple weeks back.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Hitokage said:
Upon reading that quote, my immediate response is "isn't that just representative of the boom-bust cycle?"
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But it looks as though, and I've read a few articles making the point that, the bust of this "cycle" is brought on by government pulling in a surplus, forcing the private sector to overall have a net deficit. Perhaps if we realized the real implications of our current monetary system we would be able to control things such that there isn't a boom-bust cycle, or at least so the cycle doesn't hit quite as hard.


Black Mamba said:
the budget surplus didn't pay down debt, though. It included SS taxes which went to buy gov't debt.

The gov't still had to borrow to pay off its total expenditures.
Click to expand...

That is likely why we didn't crash directly after Clinton's terms. I personally think that things like Glass-Steagall probably lead to the recession now more than his "surplus," but it was interesting reading that article talking about some of the negative effects that may have come from it.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
Cubsfan23 said:
Whenever I dream about a future sports event or news event, the opposite always happens in real life


I dreamed the jobs report was disastrous a couple weeks back.
Click to expand...

Me too. I figured the GOP convention was going to be rock solid with people like Christie and Rubio and Jeb (and even Eastwood when I heard he would be there) and I expected the Dem convention to mostly flop with people like Julian Castro. I've been pleasantly surprised.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
RDreamer said:
But it looks as though, and I've read a few articles making the point that, the bust of this "cycle" is brought on by government pulling in a surplus, forcing the private sector to overall have a net deficit. Perhaps if we realized the real implications of our current monetary system we would be able to control things such that there isn't a boom-bust cycle, or at least so the cycle doesn't hit quite as hard.
Click to expand...

Stick a pin in this subject for a month, because it's EV's bread and butter. But yeah, necessarily a government surplus means that the government is taking in more money than it's paying out -- thus a constriction of the money supply. Which will cause recession if it happens at the same time as other money-restricting actions, such as interest rates going up, which are likely to coincide since they both coincide with better economic climates. So it doesn't seem impossible.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
5qDFW.jpg


posted?
 
N

NullPointer

Member
Opiate said:
Clint Eastwood to publish a new autobiography:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/clint-eastwood-to-publish-new-autobiography-iwhere,29440/
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Man oh man. I'm dying here.

“When you write…it’s just that so, these people are all in our lives, all of us, and he’s—but you know about—I remember 50 years ago,” reads an excerpt from a chapter titled “You See The Past And It Doesn’t Hurt, I Don’t Know.” “They were saying, but I thought—people in your own life were something to be thought about—and they were saying that back then, and even now, and I just thought, this is great.”
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H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
pigeon said:
Stick a pin in this subject for a month, because it's EV's bread and butter.
Click to expand...
Why wait? Just go to any MMT adherent website.

I'm personally less convinced that MMT is worth considering seriously, because it gets too caught up in economy-as-system thinking while also ignoring the fundamental requirement behind any currency: people believing in its value.
 
?

(._.)

Banned
So I believe they moved the Obama speech inside tonight. I'm guessing back to Time Warner arena. I wanted to go see him speak @ Bank of America stadium but it was so ambiguous on how to get in. The only way to sign up online has since been removed so I guess they wont be allowing random people in anymore. Anybody know the exact time of the speech? I don't wanna miss the VMAs -_-
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Hitokage said:
Why wait? Just go to any MMT adherent website.

I'm personally less convinced that MMT is worth considering seriously, because it gets too caught up in economy-as-system thinking while also ignoring the fundamental requirement behind any currency: people believing in its value.
Click to expand...

I would think another requirement, though, would be overall sustainability and something that helps out society as a whole.

I just don't see how you keep growing an economy and a population while contracting the currency supply. That just doesn't seem like it would ever add up to me.

And sure, I'm not sure what would happen if we started talking about the truth of our monetary system, but I just don't like how things are now. To me it feels like parents trying to keep the secret of Santa not being real to kids that are going on mad rampages because they didn't get much for Christmas. They're out telling all their friends and family friends and bitching about how they hate Santa and really making the parents look bad. Basically they're causing a ruckus that wouldn't happen, at least not in the same way, if they sat down and explained their financial situation to the kids. Same thing with this "debt" problem. We've got people running around like the goddamned sky is falling and pushing policies that would absolutely be horrendous, especially during this time all for something that's probably a sham, and all to keep up this belief that our money has value.

And money shouldn't lose value if we came out and said this. That's what taxation is supposed to be for, anyway. If you only accept the US currency in taxes, then it has value and people will have to strive to get more of it, and stores will only ask for it, because they have to pay their taxes in that currency. If taxes are done well, then there should be no worry of loss of value. Now, I could see why you'd be worried here, though, with the Grover Norquist types around.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Aaron Strife said:
So what's a good Obama speech drinking game.

So far I've got take a shot every time he says "My fellow Americans" or "Let me be clear." And finish the drink when he gets to "God bless America!"
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Toss in "there is no doubt..." and you've got a recipe for alcohol poisoning.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Chichikov said:
10am football games after a Saturday of drinking is no joke.
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MST is best time. Not only do you have enough time to shake off a hangover before football starts, east coast prime time sporting events during the week start right about when you get home from work. It almost makes up for actually having to live here.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
It just occurred to me that the optics of Bill Clinton and Obama being in the same vicinity as each other would be enough to cause Rush to overdose on oxycontin.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Odd, I just got asked to do a survey from Facebook that was highly political. It asked about political ideology, whether you'd vote, who you'd vote for, etc. It also asked some factual questions about certain offices and who did what.
 
G

gcubed

Member
the foo fighters?

this is the first time i watched much of a convention besides the main speeches. they are kinda creepy
 
S

Snake

Member
Wow.

As posted in the DNC thread: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-campaign-mediabre885160-20120906,0,2552331.story
Bill Clinton edges out football in TV audience

According to final data from Nielsen, it was a close race for the TV audience, with an average 23.9 million viewers watching the National Football League's season kickoff game on NBC between the Dallas Cowboys and the New York Giants on Wednesday night.

Nielsen said an estimated 25.1 million viewers across seven cable and broadcast networks watched the second night of the convention in prime time, when Clinton delivered a lengthy, humorous and detail-heavy defense of President Barack Obama's first term in office.
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Leave it to Slick Willy.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Day 2 of the DNC beating Day 2 of the RNC by over 3 million viewers while going against the season premiere of two popular NFL teams is beyond words.
 
J

Jackson50

Member
Afghanistan is implementing measures to inhibit the increase in green-on-blue attacks. And the U.S. is aiding them by adopting stricter vetting procedures for ANSF recruits. The review has yielded some positive results. But its effect will be circumscribed as infiltration from insurgents is not the principal cause of the problem. Rather, enmity and a dearth of trust between American trainers and Afghan forces are the causes. Thus, the situation is acutely problematic as identifying a potential attacker is difficult. Further, the provisions to mitigate the violence could prove counterproductive. They involve stricter monitoring of personnel which might compound the problem by intensifying resentment. And that assumes they even implement the measures. The problem, as I've noted previously, is undermining our effort to advise and train.
Cloudy said:
CNN doing a segment on Longoria petting Alba @ DNC. Hawt
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tumblr_m9wrqsisFe1qzr9qko1_400.gif
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Damn, all that practice is paying off PD.
 
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