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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
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Synth_floyd
Banned
What are you guys smoking? That's a good cartoon. The message is bullshit of course but that's a cool idea to caricature Obama, Kerry and Hagel as Larry, Curly and Moe and if you believe the bullshit message then what they're saying makes sense. The art and concept are great. Just the message is dumb.
polyh3dron
Banned
Scarborough has been flipping out for 30 minutes about Obama having too many men in his cabinet, bringing up the binders of women.. He went pretty crazy.
lol I was watching that too and I had to change the channel every few minutes, that whole discussion made me cringe. But Morning Joe always makes me cringe. I don't know why I watch it.
empty vessel
Member
The debt ceiling has only to do with the total amount of debt the US government may have outstanding. When it is reached, that means that the Treasury cannot sell any more bonds, because it would put the government over the limit imposed by Congress.
The spending decisions are separate. The Treasury only sells bonds when its tax receipts do not suffice for the spending dictated by Congress. If, for example, the Treasury had collected enough in tax receipts to cover all of the spending, then the debt limit would not have been reached because the Treasury would not have sought to sell any additional bonds in order to spend the money.
That said, the debt limit is never a problem because the Treasury is empowered to create legal US tender directly. Ideally, it would always turn to the mint over the bond market when its tax receipts do not adequately cover the spending dictated by Congress. (Even more ideally, the whole charade of minting coins and of pretending to borrow money from the public would be put to rest and Congress would pass a law that instructs the Fed to just credit the Treasury's account for all needed spending.)
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Because that's no way to deal with budgetary issues. It seems bad that America would have to sink so low to "create" a trillion dollar coin for this one issue and one issue only because our politicians are so inept.
I think if we have to create one coin to solve our problems, then that shows the world that clearly we aren't the world leader and that somebody else or other group of countries need to take the lead.
How long will it take for other countries to lose faith in our political system and the value of our monetary system if we have to stoop this low. I'd sooner rather see the President evoke the Constitutional option and ask to see the House in court than create some fake coin.
worldrunover
Member
I think they're suggesting that instead of gun regulation, we REALLY need to be focusing on restricting cattle prods in stores.
Synth_floyd
Banned
I don't get the whole argument of "having guns will prevent tyrannical regimes." The government has tanks, planes, missiles, mortars, body armor, tactics, training, etc. The people have a few assault rifles.
Take Syria. The rebels basically have AKs and some homemade grenades and mortars and the only reason they're winning is because they are 85%+ of the country's population.
Take Syria. The rebels basically have AKs and some homemade grenades and mortars and the only reason they're winning is because they are 85%+ of the country's population.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So lets so that "money" is all fake and it means nothing and it's all an illusion. Lets so your and Empty Vessel are 100% right. Why would you want to expose that? Is the system not in jeopardy if this illusion is exposed?
Why wouldn't the markets freak out if what everybody that was real, all of a sudden was exposed to be an illusion?
RoninChaos
Member
Because the constitution, red coats, 'murica.
I don't think it's an exact science.
Vestal
Junior Member
"Hillsborough superintendent wants armed guards in elementary schools"
Argh http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1269651.ece
Florida =(
Argh http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1269651.ece
Florida =(
Question, if the Republicans in the House dig in their heels and refuse to raise the debt ceiling, and the administration declines to mint the coin or invoke the 14th, is there anything genuinely stopping the federal government from continuing to spend what it needs to while bond sales cease? Is there a law that prevents this? Or would doing so be an implicit invocation of the 14th? It would be pretty illustrative of the disconnect between our fiat money system and our whole budget/debt process if the debt ceiling was able to be simply ignored.
heliosRAzi
Banned
And these same people want to up the defense budget.
i've been in many schools that have an armed security group and metal detectors when you walk in. They were all in urban schools, but its not new
iamshadowlark
Banned
I had them at my elementary school in GA.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
cartoon_soldier
Member
Agreed. We need to arm everybody chemical bombs and shit if we stand any chance.
TestOfTide
Banned
That phalic shaped thing is supposed to be obama?
el retorno
Member
thats tampa, they're weird
Everybody has been saying this for like 40 years.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
That's the funny part of it all to me. Not just the defense budget.
But the same people who seem likely to be paranoid militia men ready to fight the government when the army comes to take over, also seem to be the same sort who go in for supporting the military and especially use phrases like "support our troops" to avoid discussion over foreign policy issues. (I.E., criticize US foreign policy in a time of war, they puff up and scream "YOU DON'T SUPPORT OUR TROOPS? YOU'RE A TRAITOR!")
So, mr. Gun Nut Revolutionist. When the government comes to take away all your guns are you still going to Support Our Troops?
You're right, the Chamber of Commerce does scare me.
Chickenhawks are more honorable than actual war vets, because while they never served they kinda wanted to and never forgot the importance of kinda wanting to.
speculawyer
Member
Appeasement works? Seriously? Tell that to Usama Bin Laden, AQs being droned in Pakistan, and the Iranian regime crippled by sanctions.
When they pick such illogical issues, it just really fails . . . in the real world. But in the paranoid conspiracy world of the far-right . . . it works perfectly.
BTW, why is the right never able to see the interconnection between issues? They whine about the deficit for months but then switch issues and want to increase defense spending. Wait . . . what?
Well, there was that one woman whose name was floated...
empty vessel
Member
That's basically what minting the coin accomplishes: it allows the Treasury to continue to spend what Congress appropriated without selling bonds to make up the deficiency in tax receipts. The Treasury's problem primarily comes into play because of the various legal constraints in place, constraints that were formulated and put in place during a time when the US was operating under a different monetary system. The entire structure of government spending and accounting is basically made for a different system. So, for example, if the Treasury's power to mint a platinum coin didn't fortuitously happen to be in the law, then the Treasury would find itself with no legal mechanism by which to continue paying once it hit the debt ceiling. The money isn't the problem, because a government with a fiat monetary system can always create the money. But the laws on the books that constrain how various parts of the government are permitted to operate can be a problem. So, if the Treasury declines to mint a coin, and also declines to sell bonds, there are no other legal mechanisms I am aware of by which the Treasury can spend money.
Does that make sense?
What we need is a total overhaul of the laws governing how the government spends money that aren't based on money being tied to a physical commodity like gold.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2...-says-gun-owners-will-be-the-next-rosa-parks/
My mind is full of fuck.
My mind is full of fuck.
el retorno
Member
Is there gonna be another ruby ridge that the right will parade as standing up to the tyrannical government?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What's regional law enforcement?
QuiteWhittle
Member
High schools and middle schools already have them.
Father_Brain
Banned
After the previous McClurkin and Warren debacles, the Obama team really needs to do a better job of keeping out religious homophobes. Well, at least they made the right call this time.
When I've seen people try to explain the "we're outgunned anyways" statement, their answer usually seems to be "well, the military wouldn't follow orders to harm the citizens of the United States, so we don't need to worry about all that" (making the need for guns as a defense against tyranny moot) or "the military wouldn't stand a chance against all of us" (implying it's literally the citizens versus the military. Which is doubly nonsensical in that we're still outgunned and the notion of the entire citizenry fighting against the entire military is some elementary school fantasy).
Best I can tell, the people who proclaim it don't really hold it as a rationally thought out strategy, but as an ideal; the best defense against tyranny is a government who fears reprisal from its people.
PhoenixDark
Banned
The FUD from Drudge and the right on guns has been pretty impressive. I'm not sure I can criticisze the White House response and lack thereof so far because even if Obama was giving specific speeches on guns, the right would be deflecting them with comments from other government officials. No one has said anything about confiscation but that's all the right is talking about for instance.
It's very hard to see anything done on guns due to the house; can anyone name anything Obama could endorse that republicans in the house would pass without adding ridiculous amendments? To make matters worse January is running out, and February will be pure debt ceiling - as will March plus sequestration. After that bloodbath Obama's numbers will be down (historically the second term honeymoon ends in the spring), making a push over guns even more unlikely. Immigration should be the focus imo. Let gun control die, give a speech shaming congress. And move on.
If republicans are looking for some rallying victory or scalp, this will be it.
It's very hard to see anything done on guns due to the house; can anyone name anything Obama could endorse that republicans in the house would pass without adding ridiculous amendments? To make matters worse January is running out, and February will be pure debt ceiling - as will March plus sequestration. After that bloodbath Obama's numbers will be down (historically the second term honeymoon ends in the spring), making a push over guns even more unlikely. Immigration should be the focus imo. Let gun control die, give a speech shaming congress. And move on.
If republicans are looking for some rallying victory or scalp, this will be it.
Avon Barksdale
Member
Nate Silver is on ESPN First Take predicting a Patriots/Seahawks Super Bowl matchup.
he can do a few things with executive orders that will help... unless the dem's take back the house in 2014 i dont see anything needing any kind of vote happening
el retorno
Member
stick to baseball
PhoenixDark
Banned
Interesting, what type of things? ATF has been gutted by congress, dunno how much of an impact Obama can have in terms of background checks and gun show loopholes without a vote. I hope he can do something, and I'd love for him to announce it during the sotu lol
bodyofanamerican
Member
I'm just glad I knew exactly what your spoiler text was going to be. Hahaha.
cartoon_soldier
Member
During Biden's meeting coverage
there was an article on it earlier today if i can dig it up... it was mostly enhancements to databases and closing the gun show loophole. Nothing crazy
it was on npr http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...ook-executive-action-on-guns-what-might-he-do
Avon Barksdale
Member
PPP says that Hillary is the favorite for 2016.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/01/clinton-still-tops-for-2016.html
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/01/clinton-still-tops-for-2016.html
PhoenixDark
Banned
Obama can't appoint an ATF director until a congressional recess occurs, right?
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