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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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B-Dubs

No Scrubs
B-Dubs: I am not sure I quite understand. Isn't one story National and the other local simply due to how the stories are framed by the media? Neither event had any tangible effect on my and most other US citizens lives (at least not yet). I don't have the statistics, so I'm simply making this up, but my gut tells me that I am much more likely to get a job in a factory that is poorly regulated and will die there than in a terrorist attack. That makes the 'local' story more relevant to me, and many others than the other one.

I think coverage of stories has more to do with the goals of the media than their proximity to the viewer. 'Dumb MUSLIM Kid Bombs Marathon' is a pretty easy story, and doesn't conflict with any of our long held beliefs, instead it plays right along with the rest of the propaganda we are fed. It's also a sexy story, who doesn't like getting their hate on.

Fake edit: I have not read Cat's article yet.

Well let me put it this way, a terrorist attack is going to affect legislation going through capital hill (it almost affected immigration reform last week (and still might)) as well as the economy (confidence fairies and all that). You won't necessarily feel it going forward, or even for a while, but it will have an effect on things like security at events. Plus it's something out of the ordinary and terrorism is almost by definition a national issue. Plus you are right that it's really, really sexy. Where as the Texas explosion isn't really going to affect anything outside of Texas since the entire reason it happened was Texas's lax regulations.

For people living in Texas the Texas story will obviously be more important to them, where as the people living in New England will be more affected by Boston. Really only one of them will have national ramifications down the line. So that's the one they went with.

EDIT: Here's a link to the five factors that affect how news is covered. http://www.mediacollege.com/journalism/news/newsworthy.html It should basically explain my position. Boston wins in the significance category even though less people died due to the fact it was a terrorist bombing in a major city. You also need to remember that we didn't actually know the bombers were Muslim until recently, a fair amount of money was on them being white guys.

EDIT2: Also, remember that almost every major US city has a marathon so that makes Boston a bit more local. The question naturally becomes "If it happened there could it happen here?" So the national story becomes local as it will affect security at future outdoor events.
 

Piecake

Member
Vice tonight is amazing.

The did a segment on One Child and how its affecting the country. Wow, a shit storm is going to hit bejing.

Now they're doing a segment on Spain and they are interviewing rogoff hahaha

Did it talk about an older demographic fucking over the workers in x years due to the their simply not being enough workers to support all of the elderly or the male-female ratio

Personally, I think China might be able to survive the older demographic fuck up by promoting migrants from the countryside to the city. Putting their rural population into more GDP productive work might help them out of that mess

as for the skewed male to female ratio, well, that is going to cause all sorts of fucked up social problems
 
Did it talk about an older demographic fucking over the workers in x years due to the their simply not being enough workers to support all of the elderly or the male-female ratio

Personally, I think China might be able to survive the older demographic fuck up by promoting migrants from the countryside to the city. Putting their rural population into more GDP productive work might help them out of that mess

as for the skewed male to female ratio, well, that is going to cause all sorts of fucked up social problems

It was the male-female but that also segues into the age thing a couple now has to take take off 2 sets of grand parents because everyone is an only child, so the women are VERY materialistic.

It was just sad to see the kind of games the guys put themselves through and knowing they probably still won't get a girl. The anger when their describing it is palpable, their personalty plays no part in it, if they have a crap job they'll never have a family and a wife.
 

Piecake

Member
It was the male-female but that also segues into the age thing a couple now has to take take off 2 sets of grand parents because everyone is an only child, so the women are VERY materialistic.

It was just sad to see the kind of games the guys put themselves through and knowing they probably still won't get a girl. The anger when their describing it is palpable, their personalty plays no part in it, if they have a crap job they'll never have a family and a wife.

Whats interesting is that throughout Chinese history there has been a shit ton of rebellions, and these rebellions were filled or were perceived to have been filled by single men (bare-sticks) who were poor and unable to find a wife (polygamy was quite popular amongst the elite)

Not saying that rebellion is going to happen, buts its kinda funny that China is deliberately creating a bare-sticks underclass who is going to be bitter/hateful about their lives and society
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Whats interesting is that throughout Chinese history there has been a shit ton of rebellions, and these rebellions were filled or were perceived to have been filled by single men (bare-sticks) who were poor and unable to find a wife (polygamy was quite popular amongst the elite)

Not saying that rebellion is going to happen, buts its kinda funny that China is deliberately creating a bare-sticks underclass who is going to be bitter/hateful about their lives and society

It's almost as if we never learn from our mistakes. It feels like everyone always seems to miss the point of history class doesn't it?
 
Whats interesting is that throughout Chinese history there has been a shit ton of rebellions, and these rebellions were filled or were perceived to have been filled by single men (bare-sticks) who were poor and unable to find a wife (polygamy was quite popular amongst the elite)

Not saying that rebellion is going to happen, buts its kinda funny that China is deliberately creating a bare-sticks underclass who is going to be bitter/hateful about their lives and society

It also briefly talked about hows its even worse in the country side, there are literally no women in some parts.

It's almost as if we never learn from our mistakes. It feels like everyone always seems to miss the point of history class doesn't it?

"The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history"
 
Honestly mine is just sort of there, he always seems to win reelection but no one really knows who he is. I actually don't know who he is and I know who my state senator is. I'm a little disturbed by this, I think my representative in the US House is invisible or imaginary.
One problem is that US politics has gotten polarized to a point where if you're in the minority party you can't really get anything done, and the fact that Congress is split just makes that worse. A representative can't go home and attend ribbon cuttings or point to projects they got funding for because even the spending bills that are passed now are bare-bones packages that keep the lights on. Never mind the broader national issues.

If I were an elected official in Minnesota I'd probably rather be a state representative or senator than a congressperson anyway, as far as what I could do.
 

Piecake

Member
It also briefly talked about hows its even worse in the country side, there are literally no women in some parts.



"The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history"

thats not too surprising since traditional values, son takes care of the parents in old age, is probably stronger there than the cities. I mean, what are parents supposed to do when there 1-2 kids happen to be girls? Starve to death? Its a very stupid rule that puts people in a horrendous predicament
 
One problem is that US politics has gotten polarized to a point where if you're in the minority party you can't really get anything done, and the fact that Congress is split just makes that worse. A representative can't go home and attend ribbon cuttings or point to projects they got funding for because even the spending bills that are passed now are bare-bones packages that keep the lights on. Never mind the broader national issues.

If I were an elected official in Minnesota I'd probably rather be a state representative or senator than a congressperson anyway, as far as what I could do.
Don't kid yourself. Only one party is responsible for the polarization due to their irrational hate and ignorance.

I want the GOP of the 1950s back and the Dems of the 60s and 70s.
 

alstein

Member
Don't kid yourself. Only one party is responsible for the polarization due to their irrational hate and ignorance.

I want the GOP of the 1950s back and the Dems of the 60s and 70s.

The irrationality of the right is going to be matched by an equally irrational left very soon. This will be a good thing, because I think the only way we can restore some sanity right now is to have the system completely fail, as horrible as that sounds (and I'll be a bigtime victim- my job right now depends on how much outrage can be thrown at the FAA for destroying weather in this country)

Even myself, I've noticed myself shifting to the far left lately because of all of this.
 
Don't kid yourself. Only one party is responsible for the polarization due to their irrational hate and ignorance.

I want the GOP of the 1950s back and the Dems of the 60s and 70s.

No, both parties bear at least some responsibility for the polarization conservative dems have been chased out. Blanche Lincoln, Lieberman, etc.

If you were talking about one party being responsible for the gridlock, then yes its pretty much just the GOP as the dems have shown time and time again they're willing to bend over backwards for the GOP.

And you want and all liberal congress, you're not going to get that. And BTW screw the majority of parties in the 40s, 50s and 60s there were mostly racists that had to be brought kicking and screaming into civil rights.

As fear itself shows most of the "liberal" stuff got passed because blacks and other minorities got the shaft.
 

alstein

Member
No, both parties bear at least some responsibility for the polarization conservative dems have been chased out. Blanche Lincoln, Lieberman, etc.

If you were talking about one party being responsible for the gridlock, then yes its pretty much just the GOP as the dems have shown time and time again they're willing to bend over backwards for the GOP.

Obama is a conservative Dem. Most conservative Dems who were forced out were forced out by Republicans who were much further to the right.

Lieberman went beyond Conservative Dem into moderate Republican territory- he was actually considered as McCain's VP at one point.
 
Obama is a conservative Dem. Most conservative Dems who were forced out were forced out by Republicans who were much further to the right.

Lieberman went beyond Conservative Dem into moderate Republican territory- he was actually considered as McCain's VP at one point.

Obama is not a conservative democrat, he is a mainstream democrat and liberal in his personal views. Don't confuse ideology and practical politics.

Lieberman only endorsed McCain and left the democratic party because he got forced out by the DEMOCRATIC base, he won the election as an independent.

Your definitions show how much party loyalty matters and is contributing to the polarization.

The bases are forcing out those that disagree. This is a demonstrable fact. There are no liberal republicans and very few conservative democrats left. This wasn't the case 20-30 years ago. But like I said the liberal democrats are still willing to work with republicans while the reverse isn't true.
 

alstein

Member
Obama is not a conservative democrat, he is a mainstream democrat and liberal in his personal views. Don't confuse ideology and practical politics.

Lieberman only endorsed McCain and left the democratic party because he got forced out by the DEMOCRATIC base, he won the election as an independent.

Your definitions show how much party loyalty matters and is contributing to the polarization.

The bases are forcing out those that disagree. This is a demonstrable fact. There are no liberal republicans and very few conservative democrats left. This wasn't the case 20-30 years ago.


Hagan's moderate to conservative- definitely slightly to the right of Obama.
Susan Collins is the last of the liberal Republicans. Christie isn't a far-right Republican.


That said, Obama is pretty conservative for a Dem, I think he's at least slightly to the right of mainstream Dems. If your average mainstream Dem was say, Elisabeth Warren- I'd agree with you.
You are right about the polarization- it is starting to happen on the left as well.
 
Austerity has been a huge failure in Europe so far. Yet many in the US are hellbent on instituting it here. Insanity.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I hope conservatives aren't advocating that the US ought to go the way of Yurop; I'll totally have to vote liberal to punish the GOP in 2014 if they want us to be more like those communists. That's the last thing we need!
 
That said, Obama is pretty conservative for a Dem, I think he's at least slightly to the right of mainstream Dems. If your average mainstream Dem was say, Elisabeth Warren- I'd agree with you.

He's not "right" or "conservative" he's to the left. His policies don't reflect that but that's because of the role he's in, he needs conservatives' votes to get things done. You can be liberal and still pass center right legislation without making yourself conservative, its that or nothing gets done.

My point is that polarization has already happened on both sides.
http://voteview.com/political_polarization.asp

It is more extreme on the conservative side has they've gone full crazy but the democrats have at gotten more liberal (though this isn't expressed in congress as the filibuster prevents most of this).
 
No, both parties bear at least some responsibility for the polarization conservative dems have been chased out. Blanche Lincoln, Lieberman, etc.

If you were talking about one party being responsible for the gridlock, then yes its pretty much just the GOP as the dems have shown time and time again they're willing to bend over backwards for the GOP.

The issues are one in the same. It's the GOP in both regards because the Republican Party is broken. Those Democratic politicians weren't chased out. They resigned or were defeated in re-election.
 
winner winner. Michelle Bachman it is.

And yes, the line is wrong. It's "The lady doth protests too much, me thinks."

She managed to screw up 3 ways.

1. The line.
2. protestest is fucking stupid. Sounds like someone trying to pretend they know shakespare by adding "est" to every word. Like someone saying "thou willest doest thy biddingest"
3. The meaning of the word "protest" is different in Hamlet than modern day usage. It means "promise." Her usage is nonsensical in context since she's using the modern day definition.

I won't give her crap for #3, since the meaning of the phrase today is used more as insisting on something to the point of people thinking the opposite is true. But even in the modern context of the phrase, her use of it makes no sense, so...
 
Any idea who this is? Almost can't believe it's legit.
6Z5sqtw.jpg
 

Chichikov

Member
Any idea who this is? Almost can't believe it's legit.
Tim Gunn!
I loved him in project runaway!

it's a boilerplate graph from Ryan's budget, you can get it from here, print it, and play GOP congressman!

Edit: I love how "accurate" are their predictions -
tZjwWbP.jpg


It's not a straight line! it's science!
 
He's not "right" or "conservative" he's to the left. His policies don't reflect that but that's because of the role he's in, he needs conservatives' votes to get things done. You can be liberal and still pass center right legislation without making yourself conservative, its that or nothing gets done.

Seriously - have people here not heard of something called pragmatism? Obama is pragmatic. His "official views" are very much dependent on what political office he holds - look no further than the questionnaire he filled out prior to his State Senate election in the 90s. Supported gay marriage, universal health care, hand gun ban.

Those positions are probably closer to his own personal views, given that he was a community organizer in Chicago. You could see the passion for gun control in his voice and speeches - and I'm pretty sure his work in Chicago contributed to that.

So, yeah, you're absolutely right. Bill Clinton is a perfect example of this, too.

It is more extreme on the conservative side has they've gone full crazy but the democrats have at gotten more liberal (though this isn't expressed in congress as the filibuster prevents most of this).

Democrats have gotten more liberal because conservative Democrats have switched parties or were taken out by Republicans in the general (especially 2010, but probably 1994 too. I'm not sure if many conservative Democrats were primaried - Lieberman was, obviously, but that's because he was from Connecticut (a pretty liberal state). So, what happens is that as the conservative Democrats are no longer in Congress, the "average liberality" has increased - but this is more true in the House. The Senate has plenty of conservative Democrats (although maybe less so than prior to 2010) - Heitkamp, Manchin, Donnelly - especially in recent years as state Democratic parties have made inroads in traditionally conservative rural areas.

I recommend the book Culture War?: The Myth of a Polarized America by Morris Fiorina for this topic. Has some very good research and makes a pretty compelling thesis (essentially, that the American people aren't polarized, but the people they elect are because there are no other options).
 
Don't kid yourself. Only one party is responsible for the polarization due to their irrational hate and ignorance.
I never said whose fault it was.

The blame almost entirely lies with the Republican Party.

Don't worry, I fucking hate when anyone is like "Oh if only both sides would just look past their differences and get along!" It's a lazy way to try and look intelligent and above it all.
 
Facebook said:
Also, is anyone really surprised other nations hate us? We're the Jehovah's Witnesses of the political world: "Do you mind if I take a moment of your time to talk about freedom?"

I literally stood up and applauded when I read this. Sums up America's foreign policy over the past 60 years.
 

Chichikov

Member
All I can say is that I hope BP gets fined tens of billions of dollars. I've given up on any criminal charges for major corporations.
Fuck fines, fines do nothing, we need to treat criminals like criminals.
First thing first, end this white collar crime nonsense.
 
The funniest thing is that none of these people knew about the Muslim Brotherhood until the riots/election in Egypt. Now they control the US government. Pretty impressive!
 
It saddens me that what we make fun of so easily, is a reality for the vast majority of the right-wing.

Christ. I doubt even with decades of research and study we'll never truly understand conservative cognitive dissonance.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Somewhat related question, but are there any Christian theocratic governments in the world currently?

Not counting Alabama of course.
 

Gotchaye

Member
This is not going to be an original thought, but the WHC dinner makes me very uncomfortable. What Obama was doing was fine, but the rest was just awful. Conan's funny, but his routine had no teeth. The media bigshot talking at the beginning spoke in some general terms about the importance of transparency and in some very general terms about the role of the media, but there's never any sense that these people understand their interests as being in any way opposed to the administration's. I don't recall a single criticism of the president that had any real force behind it; the most biting thing I remember was a jab at Obama's cabinet's lack of diversity.

Obviously Colbert in 2006 is the gold standard here, but I understand that with very few exceptions nobody there actually wanted serious criticism of the president. So they shouldn't have invited him. If you invite the president to an event, the event becomes about the president. There are tradeoffs between access and integrity in journalism - I get that - but this is exactly the time to cash in on all that chumminess. If you have the sort of access that gets the president to preside over your masturbatory gathering, you use that.
 
This is not going to be an original thought, but the WHC dinner makes me very uncomfortable. What Obama was doing was fine, but the rest was just awful. Conan's funny, but his routine had no teeth. The media bigshot talking at the beginning spoke in some general terms about the importance of transparency and in some very general terms about the role of the media, but there's never any sense that these people understand their interests as being in any way opposed to the administration's. I don't recall a single criticism of the president that had any real force behind it; the most biting thing I remember was a jab at Obama's cabinet's lack of diversity.

Obviously Colbert in 2006 is the gold standard here, but I understand that with very few exceptions nobody there actually wanted serious criticism of the president. So they shouldn't have invited him. If you invite the president to an event, the event becomes about the president. There are tradeoffs between access and integrity in journalism - I get that - but this is exactly the time to cash in on all that chumminess. If you have the sort of access that gets the president to preside over your masturbatory gathering, you use that.
Tihe dilemma of having a likable president. Nobody had the nerve to poke fun at his drone strikes and kill list?
 
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