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[Plinko]

Conservative credentials - broke the unions, cut taxes, easily overcame a temper tantrum Democrat recall election, cut gov worker jobs and pay, signed a voter ID law, repealed instate tuition for illegal immigrants...

He would be the Bulldog VP that shores up the base.

And drives away a vast majority of independent voters.

 

[Plinko]

Christie is starting to sound a lot like Rudy. NJ is practically NY. He is a loudmouth. Hm...

To me, Guiliani is the biggest case of "What should have been" I've seen in my lifetime. Had he run his campaign the right way and kept his mouth shut, he could have coasted to a presidency right after 9/11.

 

[Link]

And drives away a vast majority of independent voters.

I'd be interested to see how many true Independents still vote Republican, with how far right the party has veered. I think most "Independents" just don't want to admit to being Republicans these days.

 

[The Librarian]

 

[jamesinclair]

So The Economist wrote an article about what Romney was planning in his first 200 days according to his aides. Very interesting to see exactly what democrats avoided and republicans are missing out on.

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...victory-never-was-what-if-mitt-romney-had-won

I guess it shouldn't be that surprising. Romney spent his whole life around businessmen and investors, and is one himself, so of course he would govern solely with the businessman and investor in mind. I know that was obvious, but it's nice seeing pretty clear evidence that we weren't just creating an unfair caricature. At least we'd still get to keep some amount of climate change protections as long as it doesn't hurt businesses too much. After all you don't want those beach houses to get messed up.

Simplified tax code would maybe be nice too, as long as its not just simplifying the loops the rich have to jump through to avoid taxes, or removing the parts the poor benefit from like mortgage tax deductions.

How much of that would he have been able to do with a Democrat senate?







All of it. The Democrats would have caved on everything.

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

Whose ready for another episode of 'Obama's Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrand Bargain' game show!

Our contestants should be quite excited to learn that Mr.President is offering to remove his demand to cut corporate tax rates only with an overhaul of the individual tax code. No, now our Mr.Obama is instead offering our GOP friends a brand new corporate tax rate cut if only they agree to a 'significant investment on some sort of job creation program, such as manufacturing, infrastructure or community colleges.'

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama is extending a new proposal to Republicans that he hopes will break the political gridlock on budget negotiations, offering to cut corporate tax rates in exchange for job investments.

White House officials say just because they’re at an impasse with congressional Republicans over a grand bargain on reducing the deficit doesn’t mean they shouldn’t look for other areas of agreement. So Obama plans to use a trip to an Amazon.com distribution center in Chattanooga, Tenn., on Tuesday to propose a “grand bargain for middle-class jobs.”

Obama long has called for a cut in corporate tax rates, but previously insisted such business tax reform be coupled with an individual tax overhaul. He’s dropping that demand and says instead that he’s open to the corporate tax cut that that businesses crave. But he wants it to be coupled with a significant investment on some sort of job creation program, such as manufacturing, infrastructure or community colleges.

“As part of his efforts to focus Washington on the middle class, today in Tennessee the president will call on Washington to work on a grand bargain focused on middle-class jobs by pairing reform of the business tax code with a significant investment in middle-class jobs,” Obama senior adviser Dan Pfeiffer said.

Senior administration officials described the corporate tax proposal as the first new economic idea Obama plans to offer in the coming months, with budget deadlines looming in the fall. Administration officials wouldn’t put a price tag on the proposal or say how much would be a “significant” investment in jobs since the dollar figures would be part of negotiations with Congress. But in an example from this year’s State of the Union address, Obama proposed $50 billion to put Americans to work repairing roads and bridges and other construction jobs.

The officials said money to pay for the jobs creation would come from a one-time revenue boost from measures such as changing depreciation rules or having a one-time fee on earnings held overseas.

Obama planned to make his remarks from an Amazon fulfillment center in Chattanooga, one of more than a dozen warehouses operated by the world’s largest online retailer, which announced Monday that it would increase hiring. The company said it would add 7,000 new jobs, including 5,000 more at U.S. distribution centers that currently employ about 20,000 workers who pack and ship customer orders. Amazon.com Inc. has been spending heavily on order fulfillment to help its business grow.

Obama planned to tour the packing floor of the Chattanooga warehouse, which opened in September 2011. It is one of the company’s largest and newest facilities, with more than 1 million square feet — the size of more than 28 football fields full of merchandise.

The plant was the source of tax controversy when it opened; Amazon originally was granted an indefinite waiver on collecting sales tax in a deal to bring two distribution centers to Tennessee. The state’s retailers were outraged that they were put at a competitive disadvantage, and Amazon has agreed to start collecting Tennessee sales tax next year.

The White House said Obama wasn’t visiting Amazon because of the company’s position on taxes, but because it’s an example of a successful American business growing and creating more jobs.

Obama proposed last year to overhaul corporate taxes by lowering rates from the current 35 percent to 28 percent, with an even lower effective tax rate of 25 percent for manufacturers. The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, but many businesses avoid the full cost by taking advantage of deductions, credits and exemptions that Obama wants to eliminate.

Obama wants to do away with corporate tax benefits like oil and natural gas industry subsidies, special breaks for the purchase of private jets and certain corporate tax shelters. He also wants to impose a minimum tax on foreign earnings, a move opposed by multinational corporations and perhaps the most contentious provision in the president’s plan.

While Republicans have called for a corporate tax overhaul, it was unclear whether they would sign on to Obama’s offering. The president has made little progress toward getting Republicans to sign on to a “grand bargain” of tax increases and spending cuts to reduce the deficit.

When Obama unveiled the corporate tax plan last year, congressional Republicans called for even deeper cuts for the business world. His campaign rival, Mitt Romney, wanted a 25 percent corporate tax rate.

 

[The Librarian]

Don't see how that's a grand bargain of the likes that Obama was trying to negotiate late last year. Whatever. It's not going to go anywhere.

In more exciting news, Barney Frank is on Twitter! Looking forward to the hilarity.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Whose ready for another episode of 'Obama's Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrand Bargain' game show!

Our contestants should be quite excited to learn that Mr.President is offering to remove his demand to cut corporate tax rates only with an overhaul of the individual tax code. No, now our Mr.Obama is instead offering our GOP friends a brand new corporate tax rate cut if only they agree to a 'significant investment on some sort of job creation program, such as manufacturing, infrastructure or community colleges.'

He can't find 50b he's willing to cut in order to "pay" for that? I doubt depreciation/accounting gimmicks will convince republicans to play ball. Not that I like cuts but lets be real: republicans won't agree to any new spending unless they get specific cuts that they like. I'd imagine Obama could work with McCain to find 50b that both sides can tolerate.

 

[Wilsongt]

Oh for the love of Fuck, obama. He needs to stop being nice and a pussy and stand up to the Republicans. Call them the fuck out. Don't compromise. He stands to only lose when he does that.

 

[Incognito]

http://www.rollcall.com/news/obamac...reaten_boehner_leverage_message-226732-1.html

“I’m not going to vote for a continuing resolution that funds Obamacare,” Stutzman said in a July 25 release. “It makes no sense to spend another dime on a failed law that the president has already delayed.”

But senior aides from both sides of the aisle say the threat would surely backfire on Republicans if they carry it out. For one thing, most of Obama’s new health care program is mandatory spending that is not affected by appropriations bills, so it would continue to receive funding in any event.

“Even if you shut down the government, Obamacare will continue to be funded, and all you will have accomplished in that scenario is a government shutdown,” a senior Republican appropriations aide said.

Such thinking generally tracks with comments made last week by several prominent Republicans, including Rep. Tom Cole and Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma and Sen. Richard M. Burr of North Carolina, among others.

They have variously warned that Obama will never sign a law defunding his administration’s signature piece of legislation, that Boehner will have to go to Democrats — hat in hand — to pass a CR if he can’t find the votes in his own conference and that a shutdown would be blamed on Republicans and cost them dearly politically.

Cole told MSNBC on Monday that a defunding- sparked shutdown was a “suicidal political tactic.” Burr, a close friend of Boehner’s, called it the “dumbest idea I’ve ever heard of,” while Coburn told the Washington Examiner’s Byron York that it would be “a good way for Republicans to lose the House.”

:lol

 

[Wilsongt]

Burn, baby, burn Republican party.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'll Xpost this from the grand bargain thread

I don't see how this is anything more than progress for liberals. He's dropped the entitlement cuts. He's asking for more money to spend on jobs.

The only thing he's giving is changing the Tax Rate for rich corporations which they already never pay. Which doesn't seem to in my eyes 'hurt' the middle class. I mean I think it sucks on principle as I don't think they're paying their fair share but in practical terms this would seem to make things better for the middle/working class without harming them like his other proposals have done (cutting SS, discretionary spending cuts.)

 

[gcubed]

I'll Xpost this from the grand bargain thread

I don't see how this is anything more than progress for liberals. He's dropped the entitlement cuts. He's asking for more money to spend on jobs.

The only thing he's giving is changing the Tax Rate for rich corporations which they already never pay. Which doesn't seem to in my eyes 'hurt' the middle class. I mean I think it sucks on principle as I don't think they're paying their fair share but in practical terms this would seem to make things better for the middle/working class without harming them like his other proposals have done (cutting SS, discretionary spending cuts.)

this is my point of view as well, not sure what the big deal is in cutting corporate tax rates that they never pay anyway. If it goes through its a win for democrats

 

[zero shift]

I have a question.

This site was posted in the new minimum wage for $15.
http://livingwage.mit.edu/

What does "2 Adults, 1 Child" mean? That one adult has to be paid that much to support 1 adult and 1 child or that 2 adults have to be paid that amount to support one child?

 

[Clevinger]

I'll Xpost this from the grand bargain thread

I don't see how this is anything more than progress for liberals. He's dropped the entitlement cuts. He's asking for more money to spend on jobs.

That's fine as long as it stays that way. But it feels like one of the last times was similar and Republicans demanded entitlement cuts, then Obama offered them Medicare or SS or both. I might be remembering wrong though.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

this is my point of view as well, not sure what the big deal is in cutting corporate tax rates that they never pay anyway. If it goes through its a win for democrats

If it doesn't go through its a win for dems. He's shifted the compromise back towards the left. Remember when you use the term 'grand bargain' the media treats that as the new middle ground. Instead of having 'shared sacrifice' and 'entitlement reforms' AKA screw the working class as the middle ground were at a point where investment and stimulus is back to being part of it.

Even if nothing passes the democrats are staking out their position which is further to the left and less concerned with deficit hysteria. Look at the newest spending showdown. It isn't being talked about in some apocalyptic tone about runaway debt and the future we're leaving to our kids. Its opposition to one law. Obama has subtly shifted the debate much further to the left after his reelection which has gone unappreciated. Even if nothing happens that's progress because it sets the stage for 2014 and 2016. That's what these speeches are aimed at.

I have a question.

This site was posted in the new minimum wage for $15.
http://livingwage.mit.edu/

What does "2 Adults, 1 Child" mean? That one adult has to be paid that much to support 1 adult and 1 child or that 2 adults have to be paid that amount to support one child?

I believe its the families income. So if it was both making that or just one.
There are tax benefits married couples with kids can take advantage of. And not to mention health insurance is cheaper on family plans and what not.

 

[jamesinclair]

I have a question.

This site was posted in the new minimum wage for $15.
http://livingwage.mit.edu/

What does "2 Adults, 1 Child" mean? That one adult has to be paid that much to support 1 adult and 1 child or that 2 adults have to be paid that amount to support one child?

It looks like the combined wage

 

[zero shift]

just one.
There are tax benefits married couples with kids can take advantage of. And not to mention health insurance is cheaper on family plans and what not.

It looks like the combined wage

Which one is it!?!?!

Zoe and other righties are arguing that its just one in the other thread.

EDIT - The poverty wage and minimum wage thing is what makes it difficult for me to call it.

 

[The Librarian]

“Why is President Obama threatening and trying to shut down the federal government?” Cruz said. “In order to force Obamacare down the people’s throats?”

Because it was a law passed by a duly elected Congress and signed into law by a duly elected President – who won reelection! That's why you little...ugh.

 

[Wilsongt]

Cruz is just a little, whiny shit.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Can someone summarize the reasonable (meaning non-Weiner) candidates in the NYC mayoral race. Christine Quinn keeps coming up but I don't actually know the relevant distinctions between the candidates.

 

[InsaneZero]

“Why is President Obama threatening and trying to shut down the federal government?” Cruz said. “In order to force Obamacare down the people’s throats?”

Because it was a law passed by a duly elected Congress and signed into law by a duly elected President – who won reelection! That's why you little...ugh.

Could you fix this broken link? I want to see the unabridged whining.

 

[jamesinclair]

Which one is it!?!?!

Zoe and other righties are arguing that its just one in the other thread.

EDIT - The poverty wage and minimum wage thing is what makes it difficult for me to call it.

Look at the just 2 adults.

Its cheaper for two to live together than one - ie, one rent bill, one utility bill etc. Costs are higher, but not double. So it stands to support 2 people, you need more than you would for 1, but less than you would for 2 living apart.

So the $13 is the combined total needed.

So for 2 adults 1 child, its either 2 adults making $8.50 each, or 1 adult making $17.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Look at the just 2 adults.

Its cheaper for two to live together than one - ie, one rent bill, one utility bill etc. Costs are higher, but not double. So it stands to support 2 people, you need more than you would for 1, but less than you would for 2 living apart.

So the $13 is the combined total needed.

So for 2 adults 1 child, its either 2 adults making $8.50 each, or 1 adult making $17.

This.

 

[The Librarian]

Could you fix this broken link? I want to see the unabridged whining.

Sorry about that. Fixed.

Can someone summarize the reasonable (meaning non-Weiner) candidates in the NYC mayoral race. Christine Quinn keeps coming up but I don't actually know the relevant distinctions between the candidates.

B-Dubs? I heard many people on the left like de Blasio.

 

[jamesinclair]

If you were a small business owner, wouldnt Obama being deep up Amazon's ass sort of piss you off?

 

[GiJoccin]

B-Dubs? I heard many people on the left like de Blasio.

i hope so - grew up in same neighborhood as he lives in, see him around all the time. seems like a down to earth fellow, and he's pretty liberal

 

[B-Dubs]

Sorry about that. Fixed.



B-Dubs? I heard many people on the left like de Blasio.

The times had a great write up on all the candidates, it's in this link.

That said, I like deBlasio. I've interviewed him while I was in college for a class and came off thinking good things. I'll vote for him. On the downside he isn't the kind of guy who is going to inspire people, he isn't the best campaigner. He's good on paper and he'd be a decent mayor, the problem is getting there.

EDIT: Basically the winner of the Dem primary is going to walk away with this. The GOP contenders are all hilarious jokes.

EDIT2: Now that Weiner is imploding spectacularly, he actually has a better than good shot of beating Quinn. All his attacks on Bloomberg work on Quinn as well, and he's got some good attacks.

 

[zero shift]

Look at the just 2 adults.

Its cheaper for two to live together than one - ie, one rent bill, one utility bill etc. Costs are higher, but not double. So it stands to support 2 people, you need more than you would for 1, but less than you would for 2 living apart.

So the $13 is the combined total needed.

So for 2 adults 1 child, its either 2 adults making $8.50 each, or 1 adult making $17.

Why is it cheaper for 2 adults only making a combined $17 to support a child instead of 1 making $19?

 

[gcubed]

Why is it cheaper for 2 adults only making a combined $17 to support a child instead of 1 making $19?

tax brackets. Single vs Married/Household Income

 

[Oblivion]

My man.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'll Xpost this from the grand bargain thread

I don't see how this is anything more than progress for liberals. He's dropped the entitlement cuts. He's asking for more money to spend on jobs.

The only thing he's giving is changing the Tax Rate for rich corporations which they already never pay. Which doesn't seem to in my eyes 'hurt' the middle class. I mean I think it sucks on principle as I don't think they're paying their fair share but in practical terms this would seem to make things better for the middle/working class without harming them like his other proposals have done (cutting SS, discretionary spending cuts.)

Yea I'm fine with it, and generally support lowering corporate tax rates if it's paired with ending loopholes. And I'd be fine with completely slashing manufacturing tax rates to help spur job growth there.

Still, I don't see anything passing without spending cuts. And as I said, it shouldn't be hard to find 50b in cuts.

 

[Oblivion]

Richard Cordray already kicking ass and taking names:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...-Consumer-Financial-Protection-Bureau-lawsuit

 

[zero shift]

tax brackets. Single vs Married/Household Income

Ahh so you have to be married.

So does everybody agree with what the site states?

 

[Oblivion]

Obama should do what Bill Maher suggested a while back, and offer to put some random NPR-like program that the Republicans hate on the chopping block and demand $100 billion in stimulus in exchange.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Obama should do what Bill Maher suggested a while back, and offer to put some random NPR-like program that the Republicans hate on the chopping block and demand $100 billion in stimulus in exchange.

yea...I wouldn't take any serious advice from Bill Maher

 

[Mario]

Channel surfing past Fox News, the header reads

"President unveils Grand Bargin
GOP says corporate tax cut will hurt small business"

Hmmm

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Ugh. I honestly should stop going into minimum wage increase threads here. It's really disgusting how some of the posters have such a misanthropic view of workers doing a job they most certainly wouldn't want to do. Or the "I only get paid [x] amount! With a degree! These lowlifes shouldn't get more than me" argument really makes my blood boil.

Oh how conditioned we are to accept mediocrity and low wages from our corporate overlords.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Ugh. I honestly should stop going into minimum wage increase threads here. It's really disgusting how some of the posters have such a misanthropic view of workers doing a job they most certainly wouldn't want to do. Or the "I only get paid [x] amount! With a degree! These lowlifes shouldn't get more than me" argument really makes my blood boil.

Oh how conditioned we are to accept mediocrity and low wages from our corporate overlords.

Seriously. Like it never occurred to them that they're also getting hosed.

In election news, Rothenberg sees Georgia trending the Democrats' way:

"The recent entry of Michelle Nunn into the Georgia Senate race is good news for national and state Democrats who hope to swipe a normally Republican Senate seat in the Deep South... Nunn has potential, and the Republican primary could increase her opportunities, both because of its bitterness and potential for producing a seriously flawed nominee."

"But there is a heavy burden of proof on Nunn to show that she can win -- or, rather, that Republicans are throwing the contest away. She will need every break to go her way to have any kind of real chance. Given that, we are moving this race from Safe Republican to Republican Favored. It's certainly worth watching, though it doesn't yet merit some of the early hype that it has received."

 

[Oblivion]

Channel surfing past Fox News, the header reads

"President unveils Grand Bargin
GOP says corporate tax cut will hurt small business"

Hmmm

Are you serious? THAT'S how they're spinning this?

I never thought I'd see the day that fucking Republicans would reject a tax cut that ONLY benefits the wealthy. They really don't want to do ANYTHING that could help Obama. It's actually quite impressive in a way.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Are you serious? THAT'S how they're spinning this?

I never thought I'd see the day that fucking Republicans would reject a tax cut that ONLY benefits the wealthy. They really don't want to do ANYTHING that could help Obama. It's actually quite impressive in a way.

It's funny, you'd think they'd be harping on the spending part as "failed stimulus" or something. Nope, they're going full out.

 

[T'Zariah]

Channel surfing past Fox News, the header reads

"President unveils Grand Bargin
GOP says corporate tax cut will hurt small business"

Hmmm

The GOP just rejected a tax cut for the wealthy simply because Obama proposed it.

WOW.

 

[Oblivion]

It's funny, you'd think they'd be harping on the spending part as "failed stimulus" or something. Nope, they're going full out.

Exactly what I was thinking.


Also, Obama's on the teevee right now talking about his new plan.

 

[B-Dubs]

Channel surfing past Fox News, the header reads

"President unveils Grand Bargin
GOP says corporate tax cut will hurt small business"

Hmmm

Normally I'd be shocked, but we all knew this would happen eventually.

 

[Oblivion]

Allah knows that Obama has his faults, but goddamn if I don't need a cigarette every time he gives an economics speech.

 

[Oblivion]

Haha, he just shat on the "job creation" from the Keystone Pipeline.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Haha, he just shat on the "job creation" from the Keystone Pipeline.

Strikes me as disingenuous to a degree. The keystone pipeline will create jobs, about 2-3k (short term). But that's not the only measure of its potential impact. That's potentially 2-3k more customers for local businesses in the area, which in turn creates more jobs. It's an argument Obama has used before in support of (short term) infrastructure jobs, I'm confused why he isn't acknowledging it here as well.

 

[Oblivion]

Strikes me as disingenuous to a degree. The keystone pipeline will create jobs, about 2-3k (short term). But that's not the only measure of its potential impact. That's potentially 2-3k more customers for local businesses in the area, which in turn creates more jobs. It's an argument Obama has used before in support of (short term) infrastructure jobs, I'm confused why he isn't acknowledging it here as well.

That's enough out of you, young man.

 

[el retorno]

Are you serious? THAT'S how they're spinning this?

I never thought I'd see the day that fucking Republicans would reject a tax cut that ONLY benefits the wealthy. They really don't want to do ANYTHING that could help Obama. It's actually quite impressive in a way.

They don't care about corporate income, they want their personal income tax to go down. If the corporate rate doesn't change they can just fire people. If the income tax doesn't change daddy can't buy his fourth yacht

Edit: Dems saying no to Summers.

This should go a long way toward dissuading White House advisers that President Obama should nominate Larry Summers to be the next chairman of the Federal Reserve Board.

“Given the level of opposition to Larry Summers within our caucus, confirming him would be a huge challenge and probably a pretty ugly process,” a Senate Democratic leadership aide tells TPM.
For the past week or so, news reports have caused Fed watchers and progressives to conclude that Summers had become the leading contender to replace Ben Bernanke, surpassing Fed vice chair Janet Yellen, who had been the odds-on favorite for months.

This concern was bolstered by a public relations push by Summers allies, though the White House’s official position is that Obama has made no decision, a decision was never imminent, and won’t be coming until the fall.

But even if the White House comes to the conclusion that Summers is the superior choice to replace Bernanke, they’ve now been apprised that liberal anger at Summers over his controversial statements about women, and his ties to Wall Street (and the concern that Obama will miss an opportunity to break a big economic and political glass ceiling) isn’t a fringe or ephemeral phenomenon.

Instead, Senate Democratic leaders have concluded that a confirmation fight over Summers would be a long, wasteful, divisive slog, and might ultimately fail. About a third of Senate Democrats, including Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), have signed a letter, authored by Sherrod Brown (D-OH) urging Obama to nominate Yellen. The statement from the leadership aide suggests the letter actually reflects opposition to Summers, as opposed to merely a preference for Yellen.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...on-fight-would-be-ugly-perhaps-impossible.php

Good, I want Yellen

 

[empty vessel]

Strikes me as disingenuous to a degree. The keystone pipeline will create jobs, about 2-3k (short term). But that's not the only measure of its potential impact. That's potentially 2-3k more customers for local businesses in the area, which in turn creates more jobs. It's an argument Obama has used before in support of (short term) infrastructure jobs, I'm confused why he isn't acknowledging it here as well.

The problem is that jobs are about the easiest thing known to man to create. The government can create jobs with a snap of a finger or, rather, with a flick of the Treasurer's pen. So it's not disingenuous to poo poo 2-3k jobs, in my opinion. If the Keystone Pipeline is necessary, it should be justified without resort to arguments about the jobs it creates. That's what I find to be disingenuous.