TheLaughingStock
Member
What role did automatic stabilizers play? And how is it the GOP's fault that the stimulus package was too small? The GOP didn't end the stimulus package.
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
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What role did automatic stabilizers play? And how is it the GOP's fault that the stimulus package was too small? The GOP didn't end the stimulus package.
The GOP obstruction was part of the reason the response to the recession was lacking.
A, it's wary, not weary, although we are weary of Perry. B, punishing the disabled because Perry is a douchebag doesn't make a lot of sense. It's sort of a Republican response to not getting your way.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
What are automatic stabilizers? And if it was working, but too slowly, wouldn't it have made sense to extend it, rather than the spending cuts that occurred instead?
Aaron Strife
Banned
The stimulus bill beat a filibuster with the support of three GOP senators (Specter, Collins, Snowe) who extracted concessions from the House plan. It would have been bigger if Democrats had 60 votes from the getgo.
The GOP made the bill that passed a) smaller and b) less effective as part of vote trading (one of the princesses from Maine helped with that one). And after it was clear the bill was too small - as Obama's team eventually concluded - the GOP has blocked ALL stimulative job measures.
Not really sure what you are defending. I don't think anyone would argue Obama's team proposed a large enough bill. And what we got was too small - because of the GOP (and a couple of "moderate Dems). But since then? Obstruction, obstruction, obstruction, thanks to the GOP House.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
Employer mandate needs to be scrapped.
Stop funding Egypt.
Stop being assholes about NSA stuff.
Anyone disagree?
I'm so numb from reading the news lately. Nothing happy, nothing hopeful. At least, the stuff I've been reading.
Stop funding Egypt.
Stop being assholes about NSA stuff.
Anyone disagree?
I'm so numb from reading the news lately. Nothing happy, nothing hopeful. At least, the stuff I've been reading.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
It's exhausting at this point. Keeping up with the bullshit going on and not being able to do much about it.
Maybe I'm just super cynical today or something.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
I think I'm just gonna hibernate through it all.
jamesinclair
Banned
It is pretty damn exhausting and just kills all sense of being.
We need a good old fashioned riot.
TheLaughingStock
Member
For anyone not familiar with automatic stabilizers, I recommend you research the subject. 1.6 trillion has been spent on automatic stabilizers since fiscal year 2008 according to the CBO. Additionally, I would argue Social Security is an overlooked component and the most important annual federal expenditure as far as the economy is concerned. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 is not primarily responsible for the economic recovery by any stretch of the imagination and failed to assist in the return to full employment because it was too small and poorly designed. Obama's economic team assessed the recession, designed the stimulus package, and subsequently defended it against criticism. Therefore, I don't see how its results can be primarily attributable to anyone else but themselves. My point is that ironically the biggest obstructionist when it comes to the economy was and is the Obama administration through both of his terms.
The Librarian
Banned
Here's a good paper from the Economic Policy Institute about wage stagnation.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
CHEEZMO;77624989 said:
"What did you do to end the drug war"
and
"Thanks for advancing our ability to smoke pot legally, too bad you weren't president" or some shit.
Is about what I'm expecting.
Actually, it's at 4pm. I wanna see what he has to say about his involvement in racist groups. *sets reminder*
Well, three things:
1. Christina Romer (one of his top economic advisors at the time) gave an estimate of what they needed, BEFORE everything went to hell. (iirc, this was made the month before we had our first 500k+ drop in employment)
2. Even when Obama did get the stimulus passed, worthless Republicans like Olympia Snowe watered that shit down immensely, so that even though they did get roughly $800 billion in stimulus, the tax cut portion was jacked up immensely, as the cost of the actual spending portion.
3. Every other Republican in congress.
platypotamus
Member
Or how he squares them with reality, really
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'd cosign all of that. Plus no aide to Syria of any kind.
The NSA stuff seems like it was the last straw for many people, especially younger voters. There's been a general view that while Obama isn't perfect, at least he isn't Bush. Many Americans seem not to care about the drone stuff (perhaps because it's better than actually starting a real war/sending troops, from their perspective) so that issue never really gained a lot of traction. But the NSA stuff is a major part of why Obama's numbers have imploded, and why people don't trust or or listen to him as much as they once did. It's why he did that (weak) press conference a couple weeks ago, and it's partially why he has pivoted to jobs even though everyone knows nothing will get accomplished.
This isn't an "Obama is doomed" declaration, but could be important in how his presidency is viewed down the line. The magic of Obama, or any president, rises and falls multiple times throughout a presidency. But after 5 years of a bad economy and a spying "scandal" that won't go away anytime soon, it definitely seems like he has entered the lame duck stage faster than anticipated. Maybe the economy's pace will increase - or maybe another shutdown/debt ceiling showdown will bring the markets to the brink again, as it did in 2011. But I'm starting to seriously wonder what Obama's legacy will be.
Black Mamba
Member
This is some absurd revisionism. Obama wanted a much bigger and consistent stimulus. All he got out of the Congress was $800 billion over 2 years (or $400 billion each year for 2 years) at which point the GOP took over and prevented it from continuing. And because of the GOP, some of that stimulus were worthless tax cuts (in terms of stimulating the economy) and not actual spending.
And despite this, the ARRA probably saved about 3 million jobs from disappearing.
Obama has proposed numerous times to increase spending on infrastructure, general jobs bills, bailing out states that are cutting gov't jobs like teachers, etc. The GOP has outright refused everything except for extending UE for long term unemployed.
The only blame I put on him in this area is he should have been vitriolic towards the GOP in public. Called them out for the economic terrorism to which they adhered and insulted the idea of austerity. The GOP flatly believed if they fucked the economy up enough before the 2012 election, they'd win it. That was their strategy all along and they carried it out but of course it failed.
Furthermore, the original stimulus his economic team devised was devised before the jobs market really tanked hard and no one anticipated that and by that time the GOP has refused to allow an increase in stimulus.
Clearly persons with disabilities are the base of the Perry regime. Sow the fields with salt and your foes will starve.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
CHEEZMO™;77624989 said:
They gonna ask him about going to speak with a bunch of antisemites (a long with the president of the John Birch Society)?
The free beacon and the SPLC both are calling him out for it.
CHEEZMO™;77633209 said:
Weren't the first arab spring threads actually full of discussion and news? Now it seems to be conspiracy central and dictator defending.
Internal company email highlight of the day: a hard right business owner attempted to help some newly laid off employees of theirs file unemployment insurance claims but was stumped by the process and had to give up.
"So easy a CEO can't do it," should be the Employment Development Department's new motto.
"So easy a CEO can't do it," should be the Employment Development Department's new motto.
Aaron Strife
Banned
He probably couldn't figure it out because he laid off the secretary who usually does that stuff for him.
RustyNails
Member
Yeah its insane now.
As a person who fills out government forms for a living, even I think California's unemployment insurance claim form is a bit much (especially considering the target demographic and their lack of access to the same form preparation resources as those who tend to be targeted by the litany of forms I usually prepare). Nothing drags a bad day down like having to help friends or family fill one out.
However I think they could be made far more pleasant if they weren't written to find ways to deny claims (I mean this in the substance of the questions, not the Kafkaesque nature of their presentation) and I really couldn't give less of a shit trying to put welfare / benefits monarchs to the guillotine, unlike the person I previously spoke of. Dat disconnect.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I agree with everything with the caveat that I hope something replaces employer mandate instead of just removing it. Businesses or the rich need to take some sort of stake on the cost side of healthcare reform instead of placing it entirely on the young and healthy. I proposed the employer payroll tax to pay for an increase in the already existing ACA tax credits to individuals, but got no response.
Anyhow most of the positive news seems to come from news of the republican's impending doom, healthcare reform looking like it is going to be successful in dropping prices, and if you're worried about debt, according to the CBO we'll start seeing year to year decrease in debt as a percent of GDP starting 2015 under current law (which is clearly unlikely to change come Oct 2014 when the budget and tax law gets set).
But yes, progress seems very very slow, and I don't trust Hillary Clinton to be any different than Obama. Her main difference was single payer health care in 2008, but it's unlikely she'd abandon ACA so soon after implementation. And the Republican gerrymandering is pretty stuck for at least another 7 years too, unless demographics change, and might be stuck once again if 2020 doesn't go well.
Maybe things look better if you look at how good public opinion is on many issues:
- People support a completely publiclly financed campaign system 50% - 44%
- People support completely equal gay marriage rights 55% - 40%
- People support completely legalized marijuana 52% - 45%
- People support ending the senate filibuster 44% - 38%
- People support raising the minimum wage to $9.00 71% - 26% and economists say the benifits outwiegh the negatives 47% - 11%
- People think global warming is caused by man at 57% - 39% with scientists at 84% - 5%
- And even the most unpopular gun control law on the table, clip size limits, still has support 51% - 45%
But things get depressing again when you don't see Democrats pushing hard for these changes like you see the Republican minority push for spending cuts. They'll maybe pay lip service, and we get some local victories here and there, but democrat politicians just seem inactive overall to any of these sort of changes. They won't even take slightly less "drastic" views of those same issues and jam the issue over and over again like the republicans do, letting the people know what's happening and hopefully getting enough republicans to switch under public pressure. It's even worse when you look at how many of the issue based Democrat victories are really done through ballot initiatives that Democrat politicians don't have any hand in at all.
So authoritarian issues, like the NSA or TSA or Guantanamo or torture, which are inexplicably popular among people, have no chance at changing. And issues that need a bit of education to even understand how things work, like gerrymandering, alternative voting methods, or even just the electoral college, have no chance for change either. Similarly you can forget about the public ever understanding complicated nature of bank regulation too. When people don't understand something they'll always be happiest keeping things the way they are, even if the way things are suck.
Democrats do an ok job at making sure things don't become dramatically worse as they would under Republicans, but we really really need some movement in the positive direction. I think a really concerted push toward one issue could bring about change, but there are so many damn issues, that it's hard to gain traction with just one.
I don't want to be part of the problem, I want to become more active, I just don't know what to do, or what to focus on.
Probably a violation of the NAP, would be my guess.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
CHEEZMO;77624989 said:
Mr. Paul, how awesome are you and how horrible is literally everyone else in politics?
empty vessel
Member
Where do you get that Obama wanted a bigger stimulus? As I recall, his proposal was 850 billion over two years. One New York Times article characterized House Democrats as describing 850 billion as a "limit" imposed on Congress by the Obama Administration.
One of the Obama Administration's economic advisers concluded that 1.8 trillion would be needed. I don't know where the idea that "nobody" foresaw the need for greater stimulus comes from. It isn't true.
To be fair, everyone's favorite nominee for chairman of the fed actually hid that figure from Obama...on the other hand, the president clearly approved seeing how he's been praising Summers..
I think it was more in the sense that Obama personally wanted more, but thought ~$800 billion was the best he could get through congress. You know how Obama is. If it seems difficult to get something through, he won't make things harder than it needs to be.
I think that was Christina Romer, but that was made long after it was clear that the crash was worse than they originally anticipated.
Nah, check the link I posted in the post above yours. Romer recommended 1.8 trillion before they passed the stimulus.
Jonathan Cohn has a good, but also immensely depressing article on the Republican war on science funding:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114329/republican-budget-cut-would-crush-silicon-valley
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114329/republican-budget-cut-would-crush-silicon-valley
jamesinclair
Banned
Drudge Siren
DRUDGE SIREN
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/chris-christie-poll_n_3789644.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
itshappening.gif
However....
Apparently USA Today is a right-wing rag?
Their headline is
N.J. poll shows Christie maintains big lead
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll-shows-christie-maintains-big-lead/2679667/
What a cockblock
Just to the left of the WSJ, who went with
Christie Holds 20-Point Lead Over Challenger
DRUDGE SIREN
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/chris-christie-poll_n_3789644.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
itshappening.gif
However....
Apparently USA Today is a right-wing rag?
Their headline is
N.J. poll shows Christie maintains big lead
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ll-shows-christie-maintains-big-lead/2679667/
What a cockblock
Just to the left of the WSJ, who went with
Christie Holds 20-Point Lead Over Challenger
House Republicans are thinking of using the debt ceiling as a way to fight the ACA.
Who is surprised by this?
But noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. It's Obama and the Senate that is preventing the country from going forward. Not a few cunts in the house.
http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-weigh-using-debt-limit-leverage-obamacare-020626816.html
Who is surprised by this?
But noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. It's Obama and the Senate that is preventing the country from going forward. Not a few cunts in the house.
http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-weigh-using-debt-limit-leverage-obamacare-020626816.html
So he went from hugely popular to just really popular. Those headlines seem fine to me.
Those headlines are fine. You are reading too much into this. Maybe add a "Despite drop," to the WSJ one but it's not really needed.
Aaron Strife
Banned
If I were Christie I'd only worry when polls only had me up single digits. Dude's unreasonably popular.
Avon Barksdale
Member
Hopefully the polls tighten enough where he only wins by single digits. It may be enough to second guess a Presidential run.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Saw an article in The New Republic about this as well...what's the big deal lol? Some democrats have gone home as Christie's allure faded, but he's still going to win in a rout. His camp wants a big win and he'll get it, barring some unforeseen circumstance.
Also it's pretty clear Drudge has chosen sides already for 2016. And to think, not long ago he was hyping Christie during the "will he or won't he" period of the primaries. He's the only republican who can win IMO...
empty vessel
Member
Oh I agree that's fair to Obama, but I think we're talking about his administration, so it counts. (The first part of my post admittedly said just Obama but that was meant as shorthand.)
Aaron Strife
Banned
A Republican winning in New Jersey by any margin is impressive enough imo.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Wow, I literally don't need to watch Fox News for more than 30 seconds to go from calm to enraged.
Pat Buchanan was asking where obama was to disavow the killing of some white kid because a black kid decided to shoot him in the back of the head "because they were bored". I mean this is the same as Trayvon Martin right?
I guess that means all black people agree with killing white people because they're bored. Just ignore the obvious distinction that Zimmerman was never punished while these kids are going to be convicted for murder 1 (except for the white one), and that you were likely out there asking why there was such a big deal about Trayvon in the first place.
Seriously I watch Fox News for only one segment and I hear the most racist thing I've ever heard said seriously on live TV my entire life. At least the lady host brought up the fact that the white one was getting lesser charges for no discernible reason which Buchanon completely ignored and said it was obviously a hate crime with no reasons to back it up and then went into the list of reasons why you should be afraid of the black man which all rely on crime statistics that get inflated by a racist justice system that the host just proved is racist in the very question he's trying to answer.
Pat Buchanan was asking where obama was to disavow the killing of some white kid because a black kid decided to shoot him in the back of the head "because they were bored". I mean this is the same as Trayvon Martin right?
I guess that means all black people agree with killing white people because they're bored. Just ignore the obvious distinction that Zimmerman was never punished while these kids are going to be convicted for murder 1 (except for the white one), and that you were likely out there asking why there was such a big deal about Trayvon in the first place.
Seriously I watch Fox News for only one segment and I hear the most racist thing I've ever heard said seriously on live TV my entire life. At least the lady host brought up the fact that the white one was getting lesser charges for no discernible reason which Buchanon completely ignored and said it was obviously a hate crime with no reasons to back it up and then went into the list of reasons why you should be afraid of the black man which all rely on crime statistics that get inflated by a racist justice system that the host just proved is racist in the very question he's trying to answer.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
FUCK christie piece of garbage i wish he'd lose.
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