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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
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RustyNails
Member
They can totally get away with this if they tried. They are truly above the law.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Maybe Obama will nominate the chief arsonist as Fed chair. Couldn't be worse than Larry Summers.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Well, outrage over Obamacare is what probably cost them the House in 2010, whether it was grounded in any sort of reality - there was some study a couple years ago that showed if it hadn't passed, Democrats would have held on in 25 more districts, which would have given them the smallest majority possible (218-217). If people are enrolled in the plans and have a positive experience, Democratic congressmen and candidates can say "Hey look, your healthcare is affordable and reliable now, and Dipshit McGee over here wants to repeal it" and it'll show up in the polls.
It'll help in Senate races too, even in red states like Kentucky and Arkansas where Democrats have some presence and were able to implement the exchanges. Democrats ought to own the law, it's much better than any GOP alternative.
tanooki141
Member
I'm arguing with a friend right now whether State IDs constitute as a poll tax and are therefore unconstitutional under the 24th Amendment.
Has anyone made these arguments in State Legislatures or courts when states have proposed these laws in the past couple of years?
What does the rest of PoliGaf say?
Has anyone made these arguments in State Legislatures or courts when states have proposed these laws in the past couple of years?
What does the rest of PoliGaf say?
Have you read the article Greenwald linked (though again, he didn't write)?Double post, but I saw this link that highlights Greenwald as a liar.
Look, I did work with the U.S. government – for several years. This is neither hidden nor secreted away. It is openly stated on my biography page here, and on the “previous work” section of my LinkedIn profile. Not only do I not try to hide this information, I actively trade on it. The reason I am given credibility to discuss national security issues in the public sphere is because I am open about my old employment as a senior intelligence analyst for the dreaded national security state. I built my current career on that, in fact. So the nasty little slander that I somehow hide this fact from anyone is just that — a nasty little slur.
Greenwald in particular should know better. He tried this gambit once before, in 2010. Then, as the Wikileaks scandal was just cresting, he wrote a nasty little multi-thousand-word screed where he accused me of being a “royal court hanger-on” for the military, among other supposed crimes. Then, as now, it was a needless, vicious slur (I responded in full at the time).
What makes any tiff with Greenwald so exhausting is not just the needlessly personal nature of his attacks, but rather his outright lies. That’s correct: Glenn Greenwald is a serial liar. He is pathological about it. And he pretends like people are too dumb to notice. He did this in 2010. On the morning of November 30, 2010, he tweeted this about me:
Notice the familiar slander, that I had undisclosed contracts? It wasn’t true at the time — I even wrote in the New York Times that I worked at a defense contractor! — he “discovered” my “undisclosed” ties by looking at… my LinkedIn profile. But, almost casually, he lied about it just a few hours later.
It specifically states that - "While it is acceptable for Foust to work in the field or the DoD, industry practice (and federal law) dictates that any ties to an industry a journalist is reporting on must be disclosed to the public as an aside to any article written".
Which is the whole point, it's not whether he kept it super secret, but whether he properly informed his readers, which he didn't. And you'll note that all respected publications and journalists put relevant disclosures in their articles (random example).
The "it was on my LinkedIn profile" defense is silly, that's how Joshua Foust found about that.
You can say he's not being fair, but I honestly don't see a lie here.
I think you could say they are a poll tax, but I don't know if it would stand up in court.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Certainly not the current Supreme Court.
jamesinclair
Banned
Is the bulldozing of homeless cities unamerican?
http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/08/23/3458293/city-of-fresno-begins-downtown.html
Seems like stuff China does
Wasnt the west built this way?
We should bulldoze Oklahoma and their ugly ass homesteads
http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/08/23/3458293/city-of-fresno-begins-downtown.html
Seems like stuff China does
Wasnt the west built this way?
We should bulldoze Oklahoma and their ugly ass homesteads
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
It used to be obvious this is an unconstitutional poll tax. I remember they used to try to get around this by offering a free State ID if you say you're getting it for the purpose for voting, or by having a multistep process that includes a lot of waiting in lines and extra effort to get a free ID. Basically just make sure they technically offer a free ID, but still make it tough to get one, or even know that it is available.
I assumed this was what they were doing post civil rights act gutting, but I guess they aren't even doing that now?
"ID is free or cheap"
- The IDs are never actually free, even if the actual last step at the DMV is. Usually they require you to pay a notable amount of money for the supporting documents. Strangely, the supporting documents go up in price when the ID itself becomes free.
- The DMV is often open only during working hours, making poorer workers have to choose between being able to vote and being able to pay rent.
"Need to verify voters"
- IDs can be easily faked. Poll workers aren't going to have a picture to compare your photo ID against
- There has not been any proof of modern widespread voter fraud.
- You are wasting millions of dollars of taxpayer money to MAYBE prevent 20 people from voting illegitimately.
- You are already verified by registering to vote. You reserve a ballot. It's hard to commit fraud because someone has to dice roll and hope the voter they are impersonating doesn't show up to vote.
It's a solution looking for a problem, and is an erosion of the anonymity of the vote. Unquestionably Jim Crow bullshit.
Holy shit...Is the bulldozing of homeless cities unamerican?
http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/08/23/3458293/city-of-fresno-begins-downtown.html
Seems like stuff China does
Wasnt the west built this way?
We should bulldoze Oklahoma and their ugly ass homesteads
tanooki141
Member
Thanks for the responses.
It's refreshing to hear some voice of reason on the issue after dealing with my right-leaning friends.
I need to go read the majority and minority opinions in the 2008 scotus case involving Indiana's ID laws and voting.
It's refreshing to hear some voice of reason on the issue after dealing with my right-leaning friends.
I need to go read the majority and minority opinions in the 2008 scotus case involving Indiana's ID laws and voting.
Avon Barksdale
Member
I thought Maine had "sane" Republicans.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Have you pointed out how ridiculous DMV hours usually are? I've actually opened a couple eyes with that one I think. People don't go there often, so they forget about how insane it is.
I thought Maine had "sane" Republicans.
Is there such a thing anymore?
I was going to mention Indiana, because I live here and we do have to show a photo ID to be allowed to vote.
The first election I was eligible to vote (2010) I was away at school and got an absentee ballot. I was required to include a scanned copy of my driver's license when I mailed the ballot. I thought that might have just been a thing for absentee voting at first for some reason, and I was kinda surprised in 2012 when they asked me for a photo ID at my polling location. Luckily I have a driver's license with me all the time, but one of my friends doesn't have a driver's license or any other eligible photo ID (he had a student ID from college, but that didn't count apparently) and wasn't able to get one in time to vote last year. It seems like it's basically a $25 poll tax to me.
I had no idea there was a Supreme Court case about this law, but I might go read the opinions because I'm curious as to how they were allowed to pass this law when other states aren't. It really doesn't seem any different from the other laws that have been blocked.
Are there any other states other than that have voter ID laws in place?
you also have to be registered to vote almost an entire month before the election in Indiana, which is fucking stupid. Last year I had finally convinced one of my friends to go out and vote for the first time, but it was only 3 weeks from the election so he was too late to register. I guess the laws accomplished their goals though, because both of my friends who got fucked over by Indiana's dumb voting laws were going to vote for Obama. Oh, and our polling places are only open from 6-6. I had to work last election, so I had to get up at 7AM to go vote. I doubt people who aren't as motivated as myself to vote would even bother if they had to work.
RustyNails
Member
Homeless cities? More like Obamaville.Is the bulldozing of homeless cities unamerican?
http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/08/23/3458293/city-of-fresno-begins-downtown.html
worldrunover
Member
This guy better get used to disappointment. Who is he going to vote for next election, Hillary? You really think she's going to be some kind of civil libertarian who despises all this extra government intrusion? So it's either more of this, or the possibility of Rand Paul changing something (which chances are good he won't be able to anyway, since the powers that be enjoy the current programs) and dealing with his insane economic and social policies.
Yes, but now they call themselves independents.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Paul LePage is a Maine Republican.
I thought Maine had "sane" Republicans.
The only reason Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins were/are able to win by big margins is because they enjoy huge crossover support from Democrats and left-leaning independents who are, like the media, entranced by the idea of "moderate" Republicans. In fact the media is so desperate for moderate Republicans so they anoint right-wing assholes like Chris Christie and Scott Walker as future presidential candidates on the grounds that they at one point in their lives have produced a rational, sensible thought. Which I guess is enough to set them apart from the rest of the pack.
Black Mamba
Member
I thought Maine had "sane" Republicans.
Based on Voter ID numbers, I think the "sane" Republicans mostly became independents.
tanooki141
Member
Interesting to hear from someone living there.
I live in Michigan and we also have a Voter ID law, I'm not sure of all the specifics of it however.
Indiana's voter ID law wasn't as restrictive as the ones being passed across the country in more recent years, so I believe if the Supreme Court were to hear another case involving a more recent law the outcome would be different.
Frank the Great
Banned
Voter ID has been allowed in Indiana and Michigan and other northern-ish states because they are not covered by Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act. Voter ID laws were blocked in the southern states in the past few years because the DOJ would deny preclearance.
Now that Section 5 has been gutted, voter ID laws will proliferate throughout the south as well.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm in Michigan as well, and I've never been asked to show ID (although I instinctively do so. However my mom asked to show her ID in 2012, refused, and caused somewhat of a stir; they allowed her to vote and ultimately one of the clerks said voters did not have to show ID.
The funny thing is that if the Republicans just limited their voter disenfranchisement shit to voter IDs, they could have been given the benefit of the doubt that they really do care about supposed voter fraud. But as usual, they get greedy, and also enact all this shit to cut hours, and eliminate Sunday voting and such, which gives away the game.
It's just like how if they would have stuck to cutting spending, you might think they really do care about the deficit, but then they also want huge ass tax cuts as well.
It's just like how if they would have stuck to cutting spending, you might think they really do care about the deficit, but then they also want huge ass tax cuts as well.
Aaron Strife
Banned
MN had a vote on voter ID last year that failed because it essentially eliminated day-one registration. In fact most of the ad campaigns were like "The Republicans' voter ID proposal goes too far." Just the basic idea of voters showing some form of ID enjoys popular support, it's when they start deliberately sticking it to certain people that it becomes transparent.
I never understood making it harder to vote. Or anyone that is for voter ID. I mean, I live in New York and it couldn't be easier to vote. You show up, sign in, and vote. It literally could not be any easier short of making it online and yet there has never been a case of voter fraud to my knowledge. If a city of over 11 million people can manage to make it that easy and have no fraud, then there's no excuse for anywhere else in the country.
Black Mamba
Member
Those are high? They're right in line with everywhere in the country. I think what we're seeing here is the the nation is moving within a similar range of prices now that it's being done through these exchanges and there's a federal regulation mechanism.
PA won't be much different. And those are pre-subsidy.
Let us all take a minute to weep for the poor, downtrodden millionaires:
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...high-taxes-do-not-want-to-make-me-work-harder
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...high-taxes-do-not-want-to-make-me-work-harder
Boo hoo
Not showing up drunk
PhoenixDark
Banned
Maria Bartiromo is completely insufferable. Moreso than the Coulters and Palins of the world because she exists solely to be a talking head for corporate America. Mickleson made more than 30mil last year*, something tells me he'll be fine.
*most of which was from endorsements, and how does one maintain endorsements? By winning and being marketable. So yes, he does have something to work hard for.
*most of which was from endorsements, and how does one maintain endorsements? By winning and being marketable. So yes, he does have something to work hard for.
All he does is hit a fucking ball. A tiny ball. Not even a baseball.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Well they already showed their hand by saying it outloud on video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8
And I believe that law is actually still in effect as far as I know, the judge only pushed it back until after the 2012 election instead of striking it down entirely.
Edit:
He's basically been Fox News's mascot for the last year. Proof that the Democrats are going to make all the rich people leave us for greener pastures. And you know what happens then, the poor are going to have no idea how to survive without them.
It's sickening.
Only real response to an appeal to emotion is an appeal to emotion of our own, but journalists don't seem interested in covering individuals who have been affected by things like the sequester.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I wish people wouldn't give attention to people that they hate. Doesn't make for constructive discussion really, just mud slinging.
I know I know, if I don't care I shouldn't comment, but this is more of a commentary on the thread in general.
I know I know, if I don't care I shouldn't comment, but this is more of a commentary on the thread in general.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Except those are the people that are running large portions of this country, so it'd be ignorant to ignore it. If places like fox news didn't have such good ratings, and if so many people didn't take their words to heart there'd no reason to listen to them, but for now you need to know what the opposition is saying.
Most of us agree what needs to be done, so the next step is to focus on the roadblock standing in our way, which happen to be people we hate. And if you're going to get active about getting people to come to your side, you need to know how the other side is thinking.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Went to the March on Washington today. Lol if the GOP thinks these voters are going to go away after obama or be moved by changed rhetoric.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I sort of see where you're coming from. But even then 'our' own side isn't even on track on some things.
Avon Barksdale
Member
Golf, not surprisingly skews heavily towards Republicans.
tanooki141
Member
Wow, that graph says a lot.
And confirms a lot of trends I had imagined existed.
And confirms a lot of trends I had imagined existed.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Surprised at monster trucks and ufc. And lol @ wnba.Golf, not surprisingly skews heavily towards Republicans.
Disappointed in NASCAR even if I expect it. Its a great sport that's too often ruined by sterotypes.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
AMA motorcycling and many motorsports are very popular in the South, so it kinda figures.
I glanced at this and believed it. Then I saw the link and still believed it.
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