ridethepiggy
Banned
Yep which is why he won't let it get to that point.
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Yep which is why he won't let it get to that point.
Black Mamba
Member
A Boehner with no fucks to give could give no fucks either direction. Becomes a total wildcard.
Boehner won't have a legacy regardless. No one will remember him in 30 years.
Like I said, I still think he and the cooler heads will prevail as I've believed all along. But there's just enough GOP crazy to make me worry about it for the first time.
empty vessel
Member
Let's hope!
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I still have no doubt that a debt ceiling raise will happen easily. There's been a lot of talk, but absolutely no actions by the extremists to actually break from party leaderships, and I don't see why they would start now. Besides Democrats still have a lot of votes, so a lot of republicans have to break off from leadership to actually make it happen.
Very petty.
Black Mamba
Member
you're hoping for a global recession?
Michelle Malkin said:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/358160/americas-unfinished-business-michelle-malkin
smh Republicans.
empty vessel
Member
I'm not sure one can say we are meaningfully out of a global recession now. What I'm hoping for is to break the stranglehold that the Republican party has over our government's fiscal powers. Let them not raise the debt limit and see the result of the US government slashing domestic spending to service its debt or let Democrats be brave enough to show Americans the true nature of sovereign currency.
ridethepiggy
Banned
I don't think I've ever seen such a physically attractive woman be such an ugly and offensively disgusting person.
Black Mamba
Member
Well, then we'll enter a global depression.
While I see value in teaching the GOP or Americans a lesson on sovereign currency or massive austerity, I'm not willing to actually hurt millions upon millions of people to do it.
If the debt ceiling isn't raised in time, the consequences will affect millions if not hundreds of millions of real people who don't deserve it in really bad ways. Very little is worth that.
And she's under 60 years old, yet still speaks like she's a grandma. "Playing Nintendos"? Seriously?
I KNEW IT.Can we get a reset button of the GOP, please?
U.S. Republicans seek Obamacare delay for debt limit hike
These people...
Everyone is saying Boehner and Cantor are not going to allow PPACA to be defunded. And look at where we are.
They know this is their last real shot at delaying the implementation of this law before Americans can finally start to see it working for them. They know it's going to be much harder to defund and repeal after this happens.
This is making me so pissed off. I read this shit and I swear it makes my blood pressure rise.
The GOP is here to stay in Congress for years to come and we're all fucked.
LOL. The Republicans were planning on having a million moron march on Capitol Hill in memory of Benghazi-gate, and seems they fell a little short:
Just a little bit.
The Librarian
Banned
This is a very naive viewpoint. My family couldn't afford to survive a default due to some bad circumstances we're in right now. Get off your high horse.
empty vessel
Member
I think that's a little dramatic. Whatever the consequences they will be relatively short-lived, which is far superior to long-lived partisan gridlock and fiscal impotence. We've been affecting hundreds of millions of people in really bad ways since 2008. That's what needs to end.
I don't even know what this means. What "default" could you not survive?
LOL. The Republicans were planning on having a million moron march on Capitol Hill in memory of Benghazi-gate, and seems they fell a little short:
Fixed.
The Librarian
Banned
If the US defaults on its debt, we enter a depression. My family couldn't handle that. This "fuck you, I'd be okay" attitude you have is really scary, and is honestly insultingly apathetic.
He won't be remembered anyway. He may be to the point where he doesn't give a fuck and will let the little kiddies beneath him follow their temper tantrum all the way through.
Who takes over for Boehner? Cantor? He's even more conservative. Ugh.
Could Obama step in and use the 14th Amendment like Clinton advocated for back in 2011?
empty vessel
Member
Why would the US default on its debt? Reaching the debt limit does not mean that the US cannot pay its bonds. It means it cannot sell any more bonds. The money to continue paying US debt obligations will be accounted for by tax revenue. The result--provided the Democrats decline to reveal the real nature of sovereign currency--will be reduced domestic spending to compensate for the social accounting fiction followed soon afterward by an emergency tax hike or--most likely--a complete Republican concession on the debt limit and an end to tea party economic and fiscal terrorism. But I think you also overstate the consequences of default on debt in any event. Default affects rich people primarily, which is why we are so conditioned to sacrifice ourselves (reduced domestic spending) to avoid it.
I never said fuck you, I'll be okay. I said, you're being fucked, let's end it once and for all.
I should add that, because the rich depend so much on government bonds, it will be they clamoring for a resumption of selling them. This happenned in Australia when the government stopped selling bonds because it ran several years of surpluses. The surpluses continued, but the government still sold bonds!
zero shift
Banned
Black Mamba
Member
you simply assume they will be short-lived. What if you're wrong? I don't want to risk that.
The idiots in Europe have held on to austerity despite how wrong it's obviously been. It wasn't "short-lived." Rational people would have changed course long ago and instead they're hurting people.
And now that we've seen the sequester hurt, the idiots want to pass a CR holding to those levels.
What makes you so sure that a debt ceiling default would be short-lived when we have numerous examples of people with gov't power acting irrationally despite all evidence. These are the same morons who deny evolution.
Nobody knows how it will play out. If the gov't can't borrow money, they can simply not pay the debt obligations rather than cut discretionary spending. Or pay some of both. Or pay all the debt obligations and cut discretionary. Who fucking knows? Where are the votes for this tax hike to get enough revenues? The GOP House is passing a tax hike? Are you high?
A massive cut in discretionary spending would wreak havoc on this economy. That's like 10% of total gov't spending, $300+ billion. And if they just default, while you argue that just hurts rich people, that's not accurate. You're completely ignoring trickle down effects, which when it does come to something like this exist, but also the psychological effects. Even if you were right that only the rich would be affected, people's emotions will not allow that to happen.
If we do not raise the debt ceiling and we allow it to linger for any amount of significant time, it will be devastating to our economy and the world economy. Many people will lose their jobs as a result. Many people will not get the assistance they need.
And yes, while we don't do enough already, you think it will change the status quo? Nothing will be able to change for at least a year, anyway. And even then there is no guarantee.
You seem to be willing to risk hurting millions of people in ways that put them in a much worse position than they are in today simply to prove your point. No thank you.
jamesinclair
Banned
I hope he trips on a bike on the way out.
California may be raising minimum wage to 10.
empty vessel
Member
The political pressure would be enormous. I said the most likely result would be a complete concession on the debt limit, because that would appease both the Republican party's corporate executive base who will be clamoring to buy government bonds and the stupid ideologues who think taxes are evil. It's the debt fear-mongers who will be cast aside.
I have no doubt that the government will prioritize bond payments above all else. It is, after all, payments to rich people. It is also arguably constitutionally required of the executive. If Obama were not brave enough to issue symbolic coins to fill the Treasury's fictitious coffers, he could be brave enough (but won't likely be) to ignore Congress and go right on selling bonds to rich folk, citing the 14th Amendment. But regardless I think both parties are so beholden to the wealthy that ceasing bond payments is unthinkable to them.
I don't think so. We already have a devastated economy, in any event. The task at hand is to fix that, not prolong it.
I think you underestimate the political forces that would be brought to bear on a Republican party that refused to raise the debt limit and caused the government to stop selling bonds.
I don't think so. And, no, it's not to "prove a point." It's to put an end to economic and fiscal terrorism, get the government spending again, and get Americans back in jobs.
Yea I'm a little shocked as well though I have to say after debating holocaust deniers in that Ron Paul thread Saturday night I've come to expect anything and everything.
JesseEwiak
Member
Too many people remembering the Depression led to FDR and the New Deal and not enough remembering the fascist governments that came to power in other countries as a result of the Depression.
The discreet charm of the bourgeoisie.
I'd say not enough people remember the New Deal either.
Black Mamba
Member
This all seems naive and idealistic, a bad combination. You don't even what to consider that you might be wrong because the consequences of being wrong are devastating. We don't have a devastated economy right now. We don't have a good one either, but this ain't 1930, either. Hell, we ain't Greece or Spain today.
So while it's nice that you believe things will come out all pretty with roses, I'm unconvinced and I sure as hell don't want to risk it. You seem willing to play Russian roulette with people's lives.
Well yes that would have much to do with most of us not being alive for it.
Anyway, how many others are thinking this could end by having Obamacare implementation delayed by a year?
Is Obama really going to veto something that would otherwise keep the US economy from crashing and burning?
I started a thread on the OT, but I wanted to post Putin's op-ed in here as well. I liked his closing paragraph a great deal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/o...ution-from-russia-on-syria.html?src=twr&_r=1&
Which is not to say he's the best messenger on all points.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/o...ution-from-russia-on-syria.html?src=twr&_r=1&
Which is not to say he's the best messenger on all points.....
Black Mamba
Member
Exactly. EV seems completely convinced that it would empower people to change the gov't for the better (in his vision) without even entertaining the thought that it could go the other way, ala libertarianism.
As I said earlier, rational people in Europe would be ending austerity, not increasing it. But people aren't rational. People aren't even smart. People are unpredictable.
I don't have a crystal ball and there's too much that could go wrong for me to want to chance it. It's why I say that even though I point out GOP failings like Walker's jobs numbers, I'm not happy about them because I want people working no matter what. I take no joy in GOP (or anyone's for that matter) policies failing and hurting people.
ZERO.
Obama conceding to that would end the power of the presidency without constitutional amendment forever.
The president would never be able to veto a bill ever again.
"Oh, you don't like our ban abortion forever bill? Okay then, we'll just destroy the economy by not raising the debt limit til you sign."
And what do you mean by delayed "yet another year?" It's never been delayed. The precedent that would be set would be remarkable. Why even have a President?
The Senate won't ever allow such a bill to form, anyway, so it's a moot point.
I edited that out, realizing it hasn't been a year already, lol. The tactics remind me of everything else though.
I don't think I've seen a politician fall that far in my own lifetime
It is really a shame, we needed him in the House. His Internet activities are unfortunate but I wish we'd get beyond this kind of stuff. It's no different than what countless other politicians have done, this is just digital. It was of poor moral character but people need to get over this stuff. I am sure the kinds of things Clinton did behind closed doors are far more offensive than what Weiner did by waving his dick around via twitter and whatnot,.
That said, his middle finger and all is extremely poor form. But it pretty much confirms that his career is totally over and he knows it; if you have nothing else left to lose, why worry?
Avon Barksdale
Member
Rick Perry?
That was more funny than sad. Besides everyone in the know apparently expected nothing less from Perry.
Manmademan
Member
that closing is fairly powerful.
RustyNails
Member
All of weiner's bravado in congress was for showing off. He did those stunts to please his sexting partners and he bragged about it. He is also unbelievably pro-Israel, even saying that West Bank isn't under occupation. He started a witch hunt against a Columbia professor calling for him to get fired for being critical of Israel. Called PLO a terrorist organization. Called the Palestinian diplomats terrorists. Fuck him. He's an utter dipshit. Glad he's wallowing in the mud like a sore loser.
RustyNails
Member
You're saying CNN will not hire speakers whose greatest accomplishment in the congress was shutting down the government?
There are holocaust deniers on gaf? Lol whaaaaat.
But then again there are false flaggers, truthers...
Perhaps, but I always thought Perry's peak would be Texas gov, or maybe a Senate seat (it's Texas). He'd much peaked in terms of his political career so there was nowhere to go but down. I thought Wiener would definitely be more than a Rep. at some point. I was saddened to not only see his dick, but him acting like one on the way down as well.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
You liked it? Its a bunch of crap.
You realize this pieces is propaganda and full of BS with enough half-truths to have 'useful idiots' spread it around?
The lengths people will go to do defend Ron Paul man.
ridethepiggy
Banned
Lol!
It's entirely self serving and hypocritical. It also makes a couple of good points along the way. And the good points and bad are worth discussing. What is not worth doing is implying people are idiots for posting it.
Edit: understood, just sayin'.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I was using a stock phrase, wasn't hurling insults
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/18/useful-idiots-defined/
ClassyPenguin
Banned
We also have a strong contingent of vaccine deniers and naturopaths. They sometimes prop up in mental health threads and especially in diet and obesity related threads.
Also, the GOP food stamps thread is embarrassing.
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