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[xnipx]

Michigan you so cray....

http://cbsloc.al/18bE07I

A bill has passed in the Michigan Senate that would require those receiving public assistance to do some “volunteer” work. Another bill, which passed the House Commerce Committee, requires drug testing, revoking benefits for welfare recipients who refuse the test or who test positive.

 

[B-Dubs]

Michigan you so cray....

http://cbsloc.al/18bE07I

Because they'll have time for volunteer work...

and the second one will cost more than they'll save.

Friggen morons.

 

[xnipx]

Because they'll have time for volunteer work...

and the second one will cost more than they'll save.

Friggen morons.

I love how this bill implies that those currently on welfare are some lazy drugged up losers with all the free time in the world spending their money on weed and crack. And these people must be stopped from using up all of our resources through wasteful fraud.

But then you show them facts and :lol

http://twitter.com/SenateDems/status/380681951792750592/photo/1

 

[Black Mamba]

Michigan you so cray....

http://cbsloc.al/18bE07I

Isn't that indentured servitude?

 

[Wilsongt]

Isn't that indentured servitude?

Ding!

I think you're on to something here.

 

[xnipx]

Isn't that indentured servitude?

Clearly if these people were worried about welfare people with too much time on their hands and doing too much drugs. They would just offer them state government JOBS paying a decent wage and require drug testing so that they didn't need welfare.

But that makes too much sense

 

[PhoenixDark]

Clearly if these people were worried about welfare people with too much time on their hands and doing too much drugs. They would just offer them state government JOBS paying a decent wage and require drug testing so that they didn't need welfare.

But that makes too much sense

State government jobs like cleaning up Detroit or something. Contracts that last x amount of time, after which a person has various job experience (landscaping, plumbing, whatever) they can use to find a private sector job. Oh and add in some increased spending on job programs/workshops.

But nope.

 

[The Librarian]

The House's CR would effectively gut CHIP.

 

[thefro]

total non-sequitur and all that, but completing this test was depressing.

13/13 on that... kinda surprised how few people got the Kennedy one (the Dow Jones graph is sort of tricky since it's not using the full vertical scale). I'd figure that fewer people would know who Marissa Mayer is.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Michigan you so cray....

http://cbsloc.al/18bE07I

Wait, wasn't that second one already ruled unconstitutional in Michigan like 10 years ago?

Also, regarding that news quiz: 12/13, with the one miss being an overestimation of how many women were in Congress (by 10%)

 

[Karakand]

Because rich people getting hurt is pretty much the only incentive Republicans have not to pull shit like this.

Not to sound too cynical, but I'm sure people and entities are positioning themselves to take advantage of that situation if it came to pass, so would they be more concerned about protecting some or enriching others?

So the guy i was talking to ealier who said liberals are hypocrites for not selling all of their possessions and giving away the proceeds while codemning conservatives for refusing to raise taxes on the rich admitted we businesses should be allowed to have the net operating loss mentioned on the previous page since without it businesses would have to close shop if they had a bad year and taxed the same rate. Dude is a libertarian at heart and basically admits we should subsidize businesses regardless of how big or small they are. Much prefer to stand for subsidizing the poor than the rich.

NOL can be fairer, in its early days it was used just after wartime to soften the blow of demobilization. (cf. Revenue Act of 1918)

Right now carryforward is 20 years. That's great for certain industries with delayed profitability (I believe biotech can run something like 15 years of losses during R&D periods), but ridiculous as a universal figure. One of the rationales for NOL is that it softens the arbitrary nature of annual taxation and creates an "average" tax over a more realistic period, except 20 years is not a realistic universal period of taxation.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

12/13, better than I though (a few were guesses) and embarrassed at the one I got wrong (Rubio).

 

[cooljeanius]

The House's CR would effectively gut CHIP.

Well seeing as it's not going to pass as long as they attach defunding Obamacare to it, I don't think we need to worry about anything else it includes.

 

[Oblivion]

im dying

It almost makes TOO MUCH sense.

I suppose that's one way to make Cruz less popular among teabaggers.

 

[empty vessel]

This link has probably been posted here before, but given that some people have been asking questions about the ACA and exchanges recently, the federal exchange website is up and after answering a few questions should tell you what is what for your individual situation.

https://www.healthcare.gov/

 

[Shadow Hog]

total non-sequitur and all that, but completing this test was depressing.

Only 9 out of 13.
Incorrectly guessed that the college graduate ratio was

Spoiler

slanted in favor of men when it's actually in favor of women

, that glasses beard guy was

Spoiler

Julian Assange when it was actually Edward Snowden

, that the most closely-followed Supreme Court Justice was

Spoiler

Clarence Thomas when it's actually Anthony Kennedy

, and that the photo of the woman was

Spoiler

Wendy Davis when it's actually Marissa Mayer

.

I suppose it doesn't help that most of my news intake is from the radio, so I don't see photos of things very often. Doesn't excuse the Supreme Court Justice or college questions, though.

 

[empty vessel]

Only 9 out of 13.
Incorrectly guessed that the college graduate ratio was

Spoiler

slanted in favor of men when it's actually in favor of women

, that glasses beard guy was

Spoiler

Julian Assange when it was actually Edward Snowden

, that the most closely-followed Supreme Court Justice was

Spoiler

Clarence Thomas when it's actually Anthony Kennedy

, and that the photo of the woman was

Spoiler

Wendy Davis when it's actually Marissa Mayer

.

I suppose it doesn't help that most of my news intake is from the radio, so I don't see photos of things very often. Doesn't excuse the Supreme Court Justice or college questions, though.

Some of the questions are silly. It doesn't matter that one knows what somebody looks like. I also don't think it matters if one knows that women are 20%of Congress so long as one understands they are grossly underrepresented. Nor does it matter what Nigerian demographics look like.

 

[Tamanon]

Most of those were easy to intuit. The Nigeria one made total sense, just because of the situation there.

And Snowden seriously needs to get a new picture, because that shit is getting old.

 

[Zero-Crescent]

total non-sequitur and all that, but completing this test was depressing

13/13 here! Interesting to see the demographics breakdown. College Grads did significantly better on just about every question, and as far as age goes, younger people were more likely to know about same-sex marriage, Nigeria, and Google Glass, while older people scored higher in everything else.

 

[Plinko]

Michigan you so cray....

http://cbsloc.al/18bE07I

Pure Michigan.

 

[bonercop]

Some of the questions are silly. It doesn't matter that one knows what somebody looks like. I also don't think it matters if one knows that women are 20%of Congress so long as one understands they are grossly underrepresented. Nor does it matter what Nigerian demographics look like.

Aye. Unfortunately though, the "silly" questions have a higher % of correct responses than things people really should know. That 1/5 figure on the question about the Dow Jones is particularly painful to see.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Michigan you so cray....

http://cbsloc.al/18bE07I

Let's see.

I have an idea, let's raise the minimum wage to lift a lot of those people out of poverty.

Then

State government jobs like cleaning up Detroit or something. Contracts that last x amount of time, after which a person has various job experience (landscaping, plumbing, whatever) they can use to find a private sector job. Oh and add in some increased spending on job programs/workshops.

But nope.

do this. But no, gotta punish those dirty poors.

 

[Aaron Strife]

total non-sequitur and all that, but completing this test was depressing.

13/13

18-29 college graduate male

holla

 

[empty vessel]

Aye. Unfortunately though, the "silly" questions have a higher % of correct responses than stuff people really should know. That 1/5 figure on the question about the Dow Jones is particularly painful to see.

Also consider that this isn't a random survey. If anything, it attracts politically engaged people. A random sample of people would produce much lower rates of accuracy across the board. That DJ question would probably be reduced to 1-3% of people who answered it correctly.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The Dow Jones thing is incredible to me. I mean, I work in financial so I see that all the time-- so I will admit a lack of perspective. But do people not know the very basic recent past?

 

[Wilsongt]

The Dow Jones thing is incredible to me. I mean, I work in financial so I see that all the time-- so I will admit a lack of perspective. But do people not know the very basic recent past?

Well, when people hear that the economy is in the shitter, they most likely also think the Stock Market is low.

 

[bonercop]

Also consider that this isn't a random survey. If anything, it attracts politically engaged people. A random sample of people would produce much lower rates of accuracy across the board. That DJ question would probably be reduced to 1-3% of people who answered it correctly.

Here's their bit on the methodology of the survey:

The analysis in this report is based on a survey conducted August 7-14, 2013 among a sample of 1,052 adults, 18 years of age or older. The survey was conducted by the GfK Group using KnowledgePanel, its nationally representative online research panel. KnowledgePanel members are recruited through probability sampling methods and include both those with internet access and those without. KnowledgePanel provides internet access for those who do not have it and, if needed, a device to access the internet when they join the panel. A combination of random digit dialing (RDD) and address-based sampling (ABS) methodologies have been used to recruit panel members (in 2009 KnowledgePanel switched its sampling methodology for recruiting panel members from RDD to ABS). The panel comprises households with landlines and cellular phones, including those only with cell phones, and those without a phone. Both the RDD and ABS samples were provided by Marketing Systems Group (MSG). KnowledgePanel continually recruits new panel members throughout the year to offset panel attrition as people leave the panel. The survey was conducted in English. Respondents were selected randomly from eligible adult household members of the panel. All sampled members received an initial email August 7-8, 2013 to notify them of the survey and included a link to the survey questionnaire. One follow-up reminder was sent three days later to those who had not yet responded.

The final sample for this survey was weighted using an iterative technique that matches gender, age, education, race, Hispanic origin, household income, metropolitan area or not, and region to parameters from the July 2013 Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey (CPS). In addition, the sample is weighted to match current patterns of internet access from the July 2011 CPS survey. This weight is multiplied by an initial base or sampling weight that corrects for differences in the probability of selection of various segments of the sample and by a panel weight that adjusts for any biases due to nonresponse and noncoverage at the panel recruitment stage (using all of the parameters mentioned above as well home ownership status).

Sampling errors and statistical tests of significance take into account the effect of weighting at each of these stages. Sampling error for the total sample of 1,052 respondents is plus or minus 3.7 percentage points at the 95% level of confidence. Sample sizes and sampling errors for other subgroups are available upon request.

In addition to sampling error, one should bear in mind that question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of opinion polls.

It sounds like they accounted for that. You're just being pessimistic!

Spoiler

plz don't make me fall in despair

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Well, when people hear that the economy is in the shitter, they most likely also think the Stock Market is low.

Yeah, which makes it so frustrating to get the message that we are actually not doing so well.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Well, when people hear that the economy is in the shitter, they most likely also think the Stock Market is low.

Part of the problem is the constant "the economy is in the shitter" meme. It's reductionistic and from many perspectives outright false.

If anything, *employment* is in the shitter (sort of) and seeing tis graph ought to make people question why that is and what can be done about it.

 

[bonercop]

Part of the problem is the constant "the economy is in the shitter" meme. It's reductionistic and from many perspectives outright false.

If anything, *employment* is in the shitter (sort of) and seeing tis graph ought to make people question why that is and what can be done about it.

well,

i mean

people are doing worse than they were a couple years ago financially. across the board things have gotten worse for them. wages have decreased, we've all seen the impressive rise of the mcjob in job reports, prices are higher, debts are getting steeper and benefits are under constant attack.

Until these trends start reversing, I think it's understandable for the average person to think the economy is in the shitter.

 

[empty vessel]

Here's their bit on the methodology of the survey:

It sounds like they accounted for that. You're just being pessimistic!

Spoiler

plz don't make me fall in despair

Oh, so the results shown are based on an actual survey. If so (and it's sound), I'm actually surprised the numbers are as high as they are.

Part of the problem is the constant "the economy is in the shitter" meme. It's reductionistic and from many perspectives outright false.

If anything, *employment* is in the shitter (sort of) and seeing tis graph ought to make people question why that is and what can be done about it.

That's true as far as it goes, but for 95% of people (and probably more), the economy is employment.

 

[mckmas8808]

The WH certainly failed, but that doesn't mean the media has no role to play. Should they be advertising exchanges? Probably not. But when basic misinformation is spread on air, they should probably...you know...do the journalistic thing and combat it.

What could the White House actually do to correct the record on Obamacare? Isn't ignorance just built in, until the programs actually start?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Part of the problem is the constant "the economy is in the shitter" meme. It's reductionistic and from many perspectives outright false.

If anything, *employment* is in the shitter (sort of) and seeing tis graph ought to make people question why that is and what can be done about it.

Eh dude...the economy sucks right now, and the last jobs report was pretty ugly.

We're suffering from chronic high unemployment and wage decreases/stagnation amongst the middle classic. And the "things are getting better" meme isn't helpful at all, and even more annoying when Obama repeats it.

 

[bonercop]

Oh, so the results shown are based on an actual survey. If so (and it's sound), I'm actually surprised the numbers are as high as they are.

damn EV, you're kinda scaring me. What kind of polls/surveys have you seen in your day that gave you such a low opinion of the unwashed masses? Share with the class!

Eh dude...the economy sucks right now, and the last jobs report was pretty ugly.

We're suffering from chronic high unemployment and wage decreases/stagnation amongst the middle classic. And the "things are getting better" meme isn't helpful at all, and even more annoying when Obama repeats it.

You know what meme also hurts now that you mention it? This unyielding focus on a nonexistent "middle class". American politicians never talk about the working class directly. The words are like kryptonite to them or something.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Most people view the unemployment rate, stock market and deficit as indicators of the economy and that's from the terrible financial and economic news that does nothing to promote the understanding of the economy.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Y'all are missing my point-- people ought to be informed enough to know that outside of employment, the economy is doing well-- and then they should start demanding that some steps be taken to address that. I can start with 2--

1) Note that the employment shortfall is public sector, and increase spending
2) Look at the underlying forces which reward corporations at the expense of labor, and change policy or propose legislation to address those issues.

That jobs are this bad when Corporate America is doing really well is a fucking tragedy that nobody talks about.

I never meant to imply that things weren't bad, but rather that teh reductionistic nature masks some causes, and that the news cycle feeds on negativity.

 

[Maledict]

You know what meme also hurts now that you mention it? This unyielding focus on a nonexistent "middle class". American politicians never talk about the working class directly. The words are like kryptonite to them or something.

Listening to Amerian politics and you get the impression there is no other class. Without wanting to sound horrible, nowadays it seems as though everyone is grouped in the 'middle class' bracket for politicians.

There's nothing wrong with skill manual labour and yet everyone seems to pretend it doesn't exist. It almost feels like an extension of the 'everyone can be a millionaire' syndrome wherebye everyone can be middle class.

 

[Fenderputty]

Some of the questions are silly. It doesn't matter that one knows what somebody looks like. I also don't think it matters if one knows that women are 20%of Congress so long as one understands they are grossly underrepresented. Nor does it matter what Nigerian demographics look like.

Agreed. I got 11-13.

I guessed same #'s for men and women graduating and had no idea that blonde woman was CEO of yahoo.

I didn't know the percentage of women in congress but knew it was low so hit the 20% one.

I also thought Nigeria should be obvious due to mortality rates of developed and undeveloped countries.

I thought the most important questions related to the market graph and swing votes in the SC. I don't remember the percentages, big I'm willing to bet those were at the bottom.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Agreed. I got 11-13.

I guessed same #'s for men and women graduating and had no idea that blonde woman was CEO of yahoo.

I didn't know the percentage of women in congress but knew it was low so hit the 20% one.

I also thought Nigeria should be obvious due to mortality rates of developed and undeveloped countries.

I thought the most important questions related to the market graph and swing votes in the SC. I don't remember the percentages, big I'm willing to bet those were at the bottom.

Got the same score as you. The supreme court one actually threw me for a loop unfortunately.

 

[Fenderputty]

Got the same score as you. The supreme court one actually threw me for a loop unfortunately.

Thinking back the amount of women graduating and holding positions in congress is also important.

The snowden question to me exemplifies the stupid questions. Who cares what he looks like. What about why he's relevant?

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Thinking back the amount of women graduating and holding positions in congress is also important.

The snowden question to me exemplifies the stupid questions. Who cares what he looks like. What about why he's relevant?

That and the Melissa Mayer one. I mean come on.

 

[ridethepiggy]

House Republicans are still steamed at Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) for what they claim is an apparent last minute retreat in an effort to defund Obamacare in exchange for funding the federal government.

House GOP aides exchanged angry emails and even cursed at "amateur" Cruz in the cloakroom Wednesday, according to a National Review Online report published Thursday.

“Cruz keeps raising conservatives’ hopes, and then, when we give him what he wants, he doesn’t have a plan to follow through,” one aide said, according to NRO. “Nancy Pelosi is more well-liked around here," said another.

In a joint statement Wednesday with Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Marco Rubio (R-FL), Cruz said that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) "likely" has the votes to strip language defunding Obamacare from any bill that makes its way over from the House.

"This is outrageous," a senior House GOP aide told TPM on Wednesday. "They demand a fight for two months, supposedly on behalf of the grassroots and constituents and then within hours of getting the fight, they slink away, abandon those same people and do nothing."

Cruz explained to NRO that his intention was never to spark a defund effort in the Senate, but to galvanize the country into doing so instead.

“And on Obamacare, I’ve said, from the start, that if typical Washington rules apply, we can’t win this fight,” he said. “If the forums in which we make this case consist of the smoke-filled rooms of Washington, the votes aren’t there. The only way this fight will be won is if the American people rise up and hold our elected officials accountable.”

lol

In a day marked by the clash between House Republicans and Sen. Ted Cruz over defunding Obamacare, Rep. Pete King (R-NY) had another message for the Texas senator: Mind your own business.

"We as House Republicans should stop letting Ted Cruz set our agenda for us," King said on CNN. "He should stay in the Senate, keep quiet. If he can deliver on this, fine. If he can't, he should keep quiet from now on and we shouldn't listen to him."

King's remarks reflected a widely held sentiment among House Republicans about how Cruz and others have pressured the lower chamber to pass a government spending bill that defunds Obamacare. King told CNN that that strategy was still destined to fail

"I would just say if anything good comes from all of this, when Ted Cruz and Rand Paul or Mike Lee fail in the Senate next week, maybe finally we Republicans will have ended their influence," King said.

lolol

 

[bonercop]

Thinking back the amount of women graduating and holding positions in congress is also important.

The snowden question to me exemplifies the stupid questions. Who cares what he looks like. What about why he's relevant?

Well, it's supposed to be a litmus test for how much attention you pay to the news. If you can't even identify Snowden, you probably pay very little attention to the news.

 

[The Librarian]

Watch out for new EPA rules tomorrow that'll make it nearly impossible for coal plants to be built.

 

[KingK]

So now that the Republican civil war we predicted last year is well underway, it's worth considering who's winning.

As always, when a political coalition loses control, many of its members are cast into the wilderness, and some don't ever really come back. (For Democrats after 1968, unfortunately, this was organized labor, which will not be a meaningful political force for perhaps decades -- which is just another reason why social programs are the critical next step.)

For the Grand Old Party, some forces are already pretty much done -- I think it's clear, with the continuing advances on gay marriage, marijuana legalization, etc., that the social reactionaries are on their way back to being a powerless Southern rump. There are many more battles to fight, but there's not much question about the war. There's also some sizable evidence post-Syria that the interventionist neocons are losing out. Of course, with both these groups removed as national political pressures, Democratic politicians are free to swing left on both topics as well, so I expect that, as a country, we'll be improving on social values and staying out of international conflicts for quite a while.

The biggest groups remaining for the Republicans, to my view, are libertarians, Randians, and corporatists. If trends continue, I'm starting to wonder whether the constant Silicon Valley conflict between liberalism and libertarianism represents the future of American politics.

Yeah, this has been pretty much exactly my view since a couple years ago on the direction politics is heading over the course of the decade. The 2010 midterms and resulting gerrymandering ensure that the social conservatives will remain relevant longer than they should, but I think going into 2020 and beyond the political landscape will be how you described in your last sentence.

 

[xnipx]

So the house passed a bill to cut food stamps by 40 billion over 10 years? :lol

 

[The Librarian]

Yeah, this has been pretty much exactly my view since a couple years ago on the direction politics is heading over the course of the decade. The 2010 midterms and resulting gerrymandering ensure that the social conservatives will remain relevant longer than they should, but I think going into 2020 and beyond the political landscape will be how you described in your last sentence.

Can someone explain this sentence in pigeons post: "If trends continue, I'm starting to wonder whether the constant Silicon Valley conflict between liberalism and libertarianism represents the future of American politics."

I'm not too familiar with silicon valley.

 

[Samk]

Can someone explain this sentence in pigeons post: "If trends continue, I'm starting to wonder whether the constant Silicon Valley conflict between liberalism and libertarianism represents the future of American politics."

I'm not too familiar with silicon valley.

Probably referring to the TOR using, Anonymous sympathizing computer programmers as opposed to the more traditional Liberals of San Fran whom are more comfortable with a more active role for the government.

 

[bonercop]

Can someone explain this sentence in pigeons post: "If trends continue, I'm starting to wonder whether the constant Silicon Valley conflict between liberalism and libertarianism represents the future of American politics."

I'm not too familiar with silicon valley.

never spend a lot of time with programmer types, I take it. There is a noticeable libertarian strain amongst our crowd. Especially among the guys that like to worship at the altar of google/apple and treat everything they do with absolute reverence. The type that says "corporations drive all innovations!!" and all that jazz

Anecdotally speaking, I'd still say leftism is more prevalent among them though.

 

[Mario]

total non-sequitur and all that, but completing this test was depressing.

12/13. I got the question on gender in college graduates wrong because I just guessed (never came across any news around that).

"You scored better than 96% of the public, below 1% and the same as 3%."

Hmmm I'm a NZer living in NZ, so not sure that reflects well on the US general population.