House GOP should tell him to stuff it. He did all this on the promise that he could "find a way" to get it through. They shouldn't be seen as his lapdogs.
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
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House GOP should tell him to stuff it. He did all this on the promise that he could "find a way" to get it through. They shouldn't be seen as his lapdogs.
95%
Democrats
on immigration, economic, healthcare, social, science, and environmental issues
91%
Green Party
on immigration, healthcare, economic, science, social, and environmental issues
85%
Socialist
on immigration, healthcare, economic, environmental, and social issues
12%
Libertarians
no major issues
1%
Republicans
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Results look pretty solid. It's not perfect but with the "Choose another stance" button it's a thousand times more useful than something like the Political Compass.
Democrats
on immigration, economic, healthcare, social, science, and environmental issues
91%
Green Party
on immigration, healthcare, economic, science, social, and environmental issues
85%
Socialist
on immigration, healthcare, economic, environmental, and social issues
12%
Libertarians
no major issues
1%
Republicans
---
Results look pretty solid. It's not perfect but with the "Choose another stance" button it's a thousand times more useful than something like the Political Compass.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Green Party (74% on healthcare, economic, environmental, and science issues)
Democrats (74% on healthcare, economic, environmental, science, and social issues)
Socialist (63% on healthcare and science issues)
Libertarians (23% on no major issues)
Republicans (2% on no major issues)
Democrats (74% on healthcare, economic, environmental, science, and social issues)
Socialist (63% on healthcare and science issues)
Libertarians (23% on no major issues)
Republicans (2% on no major issues)
zero shift
Banned
So I am trying to have somebody explain to me leftist old Keynesian theory and I just don't understand. This is their post trying to explain. Can somebody please help me out?:
The Librarian
Banned
Here's further proof why you won't see any compromises being made to ACA.
A recent bill, H.R. 2668, passed by the House of Representatives in July, would, among other changes,
delay the implementation of the individual requirement to have health insurance or pay a penalty (the individual mandate) under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA) for one year. Congressional Budget Office (CBO) analysis of this bill estimates that the delay would decrease insurance coverage by 11 million people in 2014 by decreasing coverage in Medicaid and the Childrens Health Insurance Program (CHIP), employer-
sponsored insurance, and nongroup insurance relative to ACA implementation with the individual mandate.
...
As CBO and the Urban Institute have found, eliminating or delaying the individual mandate significantly increases the number of uninsured, as some individuals, especially disproportionately healthy individuals, will choose not to enroll in coverage. While decreased coverage leads to government savings through increased tax revenues and lower spending on the Medicaid program and subsidized private insurance coverage, it also increases the cost per newly insured and increases uncompensated care provided through hospitals, much of which is state and federal government financed. According to the January 2012 Urban Institute analysis that estimated the effects of the ACA with and without the individual mandate, the average subsidy amount for individuals receiving a subsidy is $700 to $1100 higher (up to 24 percent higher) without the mandate, depending on enrollment behavior. This occurs because the average nongroup insurance enrollee is significantly more costly without the mandate than with it.
delay the implementation of the individual requirement to have health insurance or pay a penalty (the individual mandate) under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA) for one year. Congressional Budget Office (CBO) analysis of this bill estimates that the delay would decrease insurance coverage by 11 million people in 2014 by decreasing coverage in Medicaid and the Childrens Health Insurance Program (CHIP), employer-
sponsored insurance, and nongroup insurance relative to ACA implementation with the individual mandate.
...
As CBO and the Urban Institute have found, eliminating or delaying the individual mandate significantly increases the number of uninsured, as some individuals, especially disproportionately healthy individuals, will choose not to enroll in coverage. While decreased coverage leads to government savings through increased tax revenues and lower spending on the Medicaid program and subsidized private insurance coverage, it also increases the cost per newly insured and increases uncompensated care provided through hospitals, much of which is state and federal government financed. According to the January 2012 Urban Institute analysis that estimated the effects of the ACA with and without the individual mandate, the average subsidy amount for individuals receiving a subsidy is $700 to $1100 higher (up to 24 percent higher) without the mandate, depending on enrollment behavior. This occurs because the average nongroup insurance enrollee is significantly more costly without the mandate than with it.
Shadow Hog
Member
.
Parties you side with...
96%Democrats
Democrats
on economic, environmental, domestic policy, healthcare, science, and immigration issues
95%Green Party
Green Party
on environmental, economic, healthcare, domestic policy, science, and immigration issues
79%Socialist
Socialist
on healthcare, environmental, domestic policy, and immigration issues
15%Libertarians
Libertarians
on immigration issues
0%Republicans
Republicans
no major issues
96%Democrats
Democrats
on economic, environmental, domestic policy, healthcare, science, and immigration issues
95%Green Party
Green Party
on environmental, economic, healthcare, domestic policy, science, and immigration issues
79%Socialist
Socialist
on healthcare, environmental, domestic policy, and immigration issues
15%Libertarians
Libertarians
on immigration issues
0%Republicans
Republicans
no major issues
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Parties you side with...
95%Democrats
on economic, social, immigration, environmental, healthcare, science, and domestic policy issues
91%Green Party
on economic, social, immigration, environmental, healthcare, science, and domestic policy issues
75%Socialist
on social, immigration, and healthcare issues
12%Libertarians
no major issues
1%Republicans
Republicans
no major issues
95%Democrats
on economic, social, immigration, environmental, healthcare, science, and domestic policy issues
91%Green Party
on economic, social, immigration, environmental, healthcare, science, and domestic policy issues
75%Socialist
on social, immigration, and healthcare issues
12%Libertarians
no major issues
1%Republicans
Republicans
no major issues
The Librarian
Banned
McConnell says he's not going to vote against cloture.
zero shift
Banned
This quiz is very flawed. It assumes that many of the smaller parties only agree with one answer.
That's going to cost him in the primary!
Bill gets to move forward, McConnell opponent gets ammo. Excellent news all around.
The response is broad, so I'm not quite sure what you were originally looking for.
Just superficially, it's contrasting the economic policies of say Keynesianism in the PRC (keeping input costs low instead of keeping the supply of capital as unfettered as possible) vs. its descendant in use in the US (neoclassical synthesis).
The Librarian
Banned
I dunno, he'll still get to vote for the bill itself. I don't think people ever care about cloture when it comes to voting. He'll still be able to say he voted for the House resolution.
I think when it comes to the kind of mud that will (and is) getting slung, that kind of reality-based distinction will matter little. (It's literally a "was for it before I was against it" situation.) I can see the ads about how McConnell let the bill that funded Obama care go forward, when he could have stopped it, for example. McConnell can then (very reasonably) explain that he voted against the bill once the defunding provision was stripped. But that kind of stuff is what the Ted Cruz's of the world love confusing people about. McConnell will be busy explaining the process, his opponent will be shrieking about how he could have stopped it. At least, that's how I see it playing out. We're getting a preview of that now with Cruz's antics, so we'll get to see if it's actually effective or not.
Aaron Strife
Banned
It's possible, but I'm trying to rack my brain around someone who was punished by the electorate for voting for cloture. It's just an obtuse Senate thing that I don't think most people will get. McConnell's opponent can try, but all he needs to do is frame it wrong and McConnell wallops him with some heavy "liar" talk.
Voted for and voted against. Those seem to be your attack ad fodder, not "did not vote against allowing a bill to be voted on".
We'll see though.
PhoenixDark
Banned
She's still in "untouchable" mode, of course she's gonna say that. Once the campaign starts we'll see the true Hillary: partisan, divisive, and effective.
JesseEwiak
Member
Yup, when I think effective, I think of the person who hired Mark Penn.
Is this the best Onion article in a while?:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/dad-explains-obamacare,33961/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1
efault
http://www.theonion.com/articles/dad-explains-obamacare,33961/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1
efaultIs this the best Onion article in a while?:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/dad-explains-obamacare,33961/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1
Sounds like my dad, there's a reason I learned not to talk politics with him.
My dad, too. Actually, I may email this to him. That'll go well.
:lol
Is he one of those "I'm never wrong because I'm older than you," types as well? I pointed the fact that he's like this out to him once, to nods from the rest of my family, and he told me I was dead wrong, it took everything I had not to laugh.
As far as the NYTimes piece on deBlasio goes, I am liking him more than ever now. He may not talk about that time in his life much, but it's obvious that he learned the right lessons as far as his experiences go. I am going to be so happy when he wins with a 40% margin.
Manmademan
Member
this is always what comes to mind when I hear things like "Hillary would have never compromised" or "Hillary would have thought of a way to make that work".
Hillary got owned to an embarrassing degree by Obama's team in 08. Outflanked, Blindsided, you name it, it happened. She may have her strong points, but "master political strategist" really isn't it.
I didn't say it would be effective, just that it would create fodder for his tea party opponent, which it will. The fact that McConnell will vote for cloture probably indicates he agrees it won't be a big deal. My original point was just looking at the current FUBAR Cruz is creating and imagining how it's going to loom over the primary elections, given that all his posturing is just that - jockeying for primary elections. (I've seen cloture votes used in politcal ads before, but to your point, can't think of any offhand where they really mattered.)
Generally, yes. He also has this weird thing where he doesn't take any facts or studies seriously because "there's always studies that show anything!". So, basically, he's left with his own beliefs, isn't willing to be challenged, is frustrated when he is, I get get ganged up at family gatherings and can hold my own, and my mom hates it all.
Basically, the boogey man of the Welfare Queen is too much for my Dad. It's sort of sad, actually, because he's a very smart man with an incredibly naive sense of what America is like outside of his own little bubble. He is well off. My mom is well off. And harping on the success of his second-generation parents who didn't attend college as a model for "bootstraps" in 2013 doesn't really hold any water. But he doesn't see that.
I think a lot of it is a Cold War-era mindset where Leftists = Communism = Russia = Bad while Conservatism = Capitalism = America = Good. Those are the heuristics he's developed.
examples, please.
Far as I can tell, she hasn't done anything notable in her time as senator.
I might be misinterpreting some of these articles.
So, the Senate can pass an amendment to strip the silly defunding language out of the bill and then pass the bill. Would this kick it back to the House or go through reconciliation between the two bodies of Congress? Or would this kick it up to the President to sign?
So, the Senate can pass an amendment to strip the silly defunding language out of the bill and then pass the bill. Would this kick it back to the House or go through reconciliation between the two bodies of Congress? Or would this kick it up to the President to sign?
Yup, that's my dad too. You see it a lot in people around that age that weren't big protesters at the time.
It should kick it back to the House where they will be forced to vote on it. This is because the Senate is forcing a change to the language of the bill, which means the House has to pass it again. At least that's how I remember this sort of thing going anyway, there might be some small unknown clause that changes things though.
I really liked this.
Ah! I enjoy these, even if they always feel a little lacking.
Green: 78
Democrat: 72
Socialist: 70
Libertarian: 16
Republican:
This is late, but in all likelihood you and Bo have similar policy ideas i.e. stances on health care. The point of my skepticism with the claim of privilege is that I would think it strange to call her that when you might advocate for more or less the same set of ideas. With that in mind, I think you were quick to fill in blanks that characterized her. But seeing as that was a discussion about pragmatism and not positions by themselves. I'll just admit I improperly guessed your intentions.
I think it's clear that everyone acknowledges it's good we move forward with Obamacare and more equal treatment of gay people. The part where with regards to those two achievements, it was his first election's appointment of justices that accomplished them and not the second term's existence, notwithstanding (so they wouldn't likely be "abandoned.") It is preferable to no progress happening at all. In the near term, which I want to emphasize is continuously existing, the most obvious solution for improving the country with regards to voting is to vote Democrat. However, I support the mobilization of movements to agitate voting bases and convince congresspeople to shift/elect new congresspeople. I support more education on how our political system could be improved. It's more likely to work from elections at local levels and then to the national levels. But with 2012 turnout as high as 2004 turnout, and the interest of many on the would-be voting left to have their ideas be made reality (and personally, not for the sake of ego but for those that will benefit), the rise of the Green party would not be bad. The right times, to be sure.
As for your last sentence, you don't know if I'm gay, uninsured, against my own interests or otherwise disinterested/insensitive to the plight of those addressed.
Obamacare "compromise"? It already is a compromise. Screw Rand Paul.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Ah conservative family members, gotta love 'em.
Yes that's the problem.
I was blessed I guess. My dad was a pretty socially liberal guy. Grew up in a farm town in North Carolina but was a big believer in social justice, the role of government and the protection of the weakest among us. Fiscally pretty conservative, but that just made him more annoyed at Reagan and Bush41.
The Librarian
Banned
being disowned tends to fix that problem
edit:^posting that at the exact same time i posted this is just too perfect
Haha now get back in your binder Dax.
The Librarian
Banned
Don't worry, I have daddy issues too. My parents are getting divorced and my dad's being a huge dick to my mom and sister. Last week he cut off the utilities at the house where they live, and when my mom texted him asking if he paid the utility bill, he responded, "Sell the house, asshole."
And that's only the most recent thing he's done.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Yeah seriously. Ultimately if she was a better politician than Obama she wouldn't have lost to Obama. In fact I see no reason to believe that Clinton 08 would have been much different than Clinton 92, who had similar majorities as Obama in his first two years and had little to show for it. Clinton's big first-term initiative, healthcare reform, was very publicly defeated and after the Democrats lost Congress, all major legislation focused on right-wing pet issues while being softened enough to be acceptable for Democrats. While Obama did lose the House, he DID get healthcare reform, a big stimulus package, and worked to undo some of the problems Clinton caused (DADT repeal, toughening financial regulations), while dealing with monstrous deficits, a severe recession, and two wars left behind by his predecessor.
Would Hillary have taken it in stride the way Obama has? Probably not.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
People have seriously forgotten what happened during Obama's first term. He never had a super majority. Ever.
Avon Barksdale
Member
Democrats 79%
Green Party 78%
Socialist 71%
Libertarians 23%
Republicans 0%
Green Party 78%
Socialist 71%
Libertarians 23%
Republicans 0%
Why? It's not a swear word! Lots of privileged people would prefer liberal causes and policies. Generally, what characterizes them as privileged is that they think other topics are at least or more important because those topics affect them personally, even if they're significantly less meaningful in practice.
Sure, but that's not the question. The topic under discussion was whether we would've been better off forgoing those benefits in order to potentially win gains on civil liberties after a hypothetical liberal backlash, or whether those benefits are relatively meaningless (which is the immediate implication of any suggestion that Democrats and Republicans are the same, because we wouldn't have gotten them if the Republicans had won). On those topics I definitely have concerns that not everybody on my side of the fence agrees with me!
I agree with much of this, but fundamentally, I think we're much more likely to see a leftward shift within the Democratic Party than a meaningful rise of the Greens, for the same reasons as before. (Although empty vessel's point about the movement nature of politics is well taken.) And note that I've voted for Greens multiple times -- for state positions in California. I just think that none of them have built the resume and record necessary for national office, even leaving aside the party backing.
Right, that's why I said it was the CHARITABLE assumption. Obviously I could also assume you were dumb, self-hating or just don't give a shit about people, but those would all be pretty shitty assumptions. I prefer the assumption that people who act like Obamacare isn't important just aren't in a position to see how important it is.
Avon Barksdale
Member
I should be thankful that I don't have a family full of cons.
The Librarian
Banned
Wow...sorry for the joke.
You don't need to apologize! It's just the latest in a long line of stress I've had to deal with over this past year.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Not talking about her senate career (that was marred by Iraq), I'm saying that when the campaign begins we'll see the same partisan effective debater/campaigner we saw in 2008, and it'll turn some people off as it did then. Right now she's "above the fray" to a point where I don't really think she's worth discussing. Safe positions, nudging/winking about the various groups of the party (black people, gay people, etc). And I'd assume her book will feature a lot of "Barack and I agree..." type language.
Basically I'm not paying attention to her until 2015
ClassyPenguin
Banned
It could be worse. You could be a Dexter fangirl.
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