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[Hop]

But what about all that Elizabeth Kucinich v. Michelle Obama slash fiction that went unwritten?

Unwritten?

 

[The Librarian]

Or the AP held onto a story for a week until they were assured by officials that the national security risk was allayed(perhaps the above mentioned informant was pulled). Then in reaction Brennan fucks up and accidentally leaks information that IS actually sensitive. That the CIA had an operative on the inside. Then in order to punish the AP the admin seeks an overly broad subpoena that is against its own guidelines.

This whole story is coming from the AP. I'll wait for some other news organization to summarize it before jumping any conclusions. But this isn't wireless surveillance or anything. As we've read elsewhere, this is like a politician saying how evil an investigation about himself is.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Unwritten?

PM

 

[makingmusic476]

I live in LA too. Mother is an OB/GYN at the state hospital where it isn't pretty either. No offense but your sister sounds selfish in her argument talking about her lack of receiving a raise. Raises are not guaranteed by employers. If she thinks she deserves one, then she should go argue with her boss for it. That's what the right's philosophy is all about: fight for what you think you are worth. Maybe she can get her union to .... Oh wait, she works in LA, an employment at will state.

Also ask her what she wants. Does she want the government through Medicare to provide blank checks to her hospital and all the others while increasing taxes to cover it? Does she want there to be less regulations so that people can be denied insurance or tort reform with lower payouts when doctors fuck up? (My mother always liked to think she knew everything, but my father, the lawyer, taught me that doctors are just as human as the rest of us and make mistakes too. They also deliberately do this in medical schools to teach residence how to fix their mistakes during surgery.). Tell her life is about trade offs. Nothing is for free and sacrifices happen to change things for the better.

Also, you might like this article that was in the advocate today: http://theadvocate.com/home/5965711-125/story.html#.UZE9tsF9x8k.facebook Never believe anything is free. Especially when Jindal says privatization is.

Yeah, I wanted to make a comment about how I may get a 50c/h raise this year, but figured that would come off as snarky.

Her problem is she got in over her head. She and her husband decided to have three kids in quick succession and buy a house despite having like 100k in student loan debt. Thus, she freaks out about salary freezes and other issues because she rushed into the family business, because that's what a good, Catholic family does! /rolls eyes

Thanks for the link. I've been hearing second hand information (haven't done the research necessary to verify it, yet) that doctor pay, etc. hasn't gone up all that much over the past view decades, and they're actual getting paid something like 50-60% what they were a few decades ago, on average. The real crime, apparently, is the ever rising number of administrators, and the rising pay for those administrators. She doesn't seem to realize (and I wish I had further driven this point home in my response) that just because a company is in the red doesn't mean certain employers aren't making a killing.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

This whole story is coming from the AP. I'll wait for some other news organization to summarize it before jumping any conclusions. But this isn't wireless surveillance or anything. As we've read elsewhere, this is like a politician saying how evil an investigation about himself is.

you mean wait for a proper long-form journalism investigation? Have you gone mad? You know how many clicks that will cost?

 

[Incognito]

We'll never know when they were going to tell us now, but how was the national security of the US hurt by that leak?

Pretty sure it was the UK, not the US, that was upset at the leak. It was so bad for the US that a delegation involving Senators were sent to 10 Downing Street to officially apologize to David Cameron. There's an official Senate intelligence report with this information that I need to find so I can post some relevant quotes.

 

[The Librarian]

you mean wait for a proper long-form journalism investigation? Have you gone mad? You know how many clicks that will cost?

I sorry

 

[remist]

This whole story is coming from the AP. I'll wait for some other news organization to summarize it before jumping any conclusions. But this isn't wireless surveillance or anything. As we've read elsewhere, this is like a politician saying how evil an investigation about himself is.

That's reasonable, but you don't seem to extend this same skepticism to the version of events that favors the admin, as evidenced by your last post.

 

[el retorno]

We'll never know when they were going to tell us now, but how was the national security of the US hurt by that leak?

Really? It told AQ they were compromised and the other story the next day made it even worse.

 

[The Librarian]

That's reasonable, but you don't seem to extend this same skepticism to the version of events that favors the admin, as evidenced by your last post.

My last post was asking if I got the events right. How does that favor the administration?

 

[remist]

My last post was asking if I got the events right. How does that favor the administration?

Ah, I apologize. I thought "That about sums it up?" was rhetorical.

 

[el retorno]

Or the AP held onto a story for a week until they were assured by officials that the national security risk was allayed(perhaps the above mentioned informant was pulled). Then in reaction Brennan fucks up and accidentally leaks information that IS actually sensitive. That the CIA had an operative on the inside. Then in order to punish the AP the admin seeks an overly broad subpoena that is against its own guidelines.

"To punish the AP"? I'm pretty sure they're going after the leaker. The AP is just standing in they way. And Brennan might have leaked the ground operation but it ignores the fact he did not reveal the CIAs involvement or the details of the agent. Someone else did to the AP. Brennan at worst might have given the reporters a lead but for them to get all the info someone had to spill classified material.

 

[remist]

"To punish the AP"? I'm pretty sure they're going after the leaker. The AP is just standing in they way. And Brennan might have leaked the ground operation but it ignores the fact he did not reveal the CIAs involvement or the details of the agent. Someone else did to the AP. Brennan at worst might have given the reporters a lead but for them to get all the info someone had to spill classified material.

If their only goal was to catch the leaker then they would have stuck to standard procedure and tailored the subpoena to be as narrow as possible. This was a fishing expedition. While the AP did leak the involvement of the CIA, they were not the ones to release details of the agent.

 

[el retorno]

If their only goal was to catch the leaker then they would have stuck to standard procedure and tailored the subpoena to be as narrow as possible. This was a fishing expedition. While the AP did leak the involvement of the CIA, they were not the ones to release details of the agent.

What if they didn't know who leaked to who?

 

[Karakand]

I was referring to after he took control. How many people he killed and how oppressive his regime was.

Well the odd undercurrent to the conversation your initial question caused was that he never lived to see a unified Vietnam. I guess cults of personality go both ways.

Anyways, aside from post-revolutionary reprisals, the DR Vietnam's land policies were the cause of substantial violence.

With subjects like this though, we eventually end up at the totalitarian / revisionist / post-revisionist knife fight about the causes and assigning of blame for such situations which is rather drab and will never be resolved. Needless to say, we're not talking about a state post-Soviet leftists hold rosy memories of.

 

[empty vessel]

With subjects like this though, we eventually end up at the totalitarian / revisionist / post-revisionist knife fight about the causes and assigning of blame for such situations which is rather drab and will never be resolved. Needless to say, we're not talking about a state post-Soviet leftists hold rosy memories of.

I'd say we're talking about a state that the US government destroyed like no other in the history of human civilization.

 

[Amir0x]

This Associated Press story looks nasty... gonna be a rough few weeks for Obama now.

 

[Karakand]

I'd say we're talking about a state that the US government destroyed like no other in the history of human civilization.

I wonder if there will ever be a time when people build moving memorials to the victims of the paranoid delusions of the American public and their inertial political apparatus that actualizes it in sustained, wanton international violence.

 

[zero shift]

Wasn't the puppet dictator the US installed in Vietnam nearly as brutal as Ho Chi Minh as well? I recall being very shocked at how not far their civilian kill count was from North Vietnam. I mean the gap was still there but nowhere near as big as I thought it would be.

 

[speculawyer]

How did I miss this?

"Bachmann: 9/11 And Benghazi Were God's Judgment"

Does this mean those terrorists were just doing god's work?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=elvm7MPquBE

So basically she is now at Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and maybe even WestBoro Baptist church level now?

 

[el retorno]

So basically she is now at Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and maybe even WestBoro Baptist church level now?

I love that clip for the "pagans" call out. It really shows what century he is living in.

 

[Oblivion]

He mentions that on his blog.

Very, very lol, but you sure that's the same guy?

 

[B-Dubs]

He mentions that on his blog.

61? Isn't he almost at the point where he can apply for medicare anyway? I wonder if he'll turn down that too.

 

[rocketknight]

This Associated Press story looks nasty... gonna be a rough few weeks for Obama now.

 

[Oblivion]

Wait what the fuck?

Gene asked that I not use his last name as he’s talking specifically about disobeying a federal mandate.

But he provides the writer a link to his freakin' blog that has his last name!

http://geneschwimmer.com/?p=244

 

[B-Dubs]

Wait what the fuck?



But he provides the writer a link to his freakin' blog that has his last name!

http://geneschwimmer.com/?p=244

Maybe the guy also asked him to link to him.

Christ that seems like a hell of an oversight. Did editorial miss it or maybe the guy who was responsible for posting it didn't see. That's just funny.

 

[speculawyer]

Wait what the fuck?



But he provides the writer a link to his freakin' blog that has his last name!

http://geneschwimmer.com/?p=244

Well, he is not exactly the brightest bulb.

 

[Oblivion]

Maybe the guy also asked him to link to him.

Christ that seems like a hell of an oversight. Did editorial miss it or maybe the guy who was responsible for posting it didn't see. That's just funny.

Wonder if dementia is covered by Obamacare.

 

[Aaron]

Wonder if dementia is covered by Obamacare.

I'm afraid there is no cure for stupid.

 

[Diablos]

This whole story is coming from the AP. I'll wait for some other news organization to summarize it before jumping any conclusions. But this isn't wireless surveillance or anything. As we've read elsewhere, this is like a politician saying how evil an investigation about himself is.

It's not good though. Not something the President will want to deal with in the next several weeks, but he has no choice now. Who knows, if this thing goes deeper it could be on his heels for a long time.

It really sucks when the best we can say about Obama's second term thus far is "welp, at least Romney isn't President."

*sigh*

 

[Socreges]

Does this IRS and Justice Dept stuff necessarily/possibly/not trace back to the Obama Administration?

 

[phaze]

Intervention, invasion.

both are foreign involvement in domestic affairs, they serve the same purpose.

In the context of discussion the difference is rather large.

The only foreign power who conquered Hanoi after World War II was the French.
Ho Chi Minh was not installed by Moscow, he was fighting a decolonization struggle against the French (and to a lesser degree, the English and Nationalist chinese forces) , he was even looking for American support in that struggle, only when the US made it patently clear that they'll support anyone who oppose him because communism did he decided to go all in on Chinese and Soviet backing.

Also, China provided much more support to the north during the war than the USSR.

p.s.
That is not to say that he was a great leader or that Vietnam would've propser under his rule, I'm merely trying to point out that Vietnam was never about a global clash of ideologies, which is what sold the American public (and French before it) on that war.

I put the "conquered" bit in quotation marks on purpose. Depending on the source you read the aid from USSR to Mao ranged from substantial to crucial. The situation was similar with Mao's aid to North Vietnam, though perhaps the scale of that help was smaller.

I'd say we're talking about a state that the US government destroyed like no other in the history of human civilization.

Hardly.

 

[Jooney]

Michelle Bachmann am cry.

Marcus Bachmann am ???

Congrats Minnesota.

 

[The Librarian]

lololololololololololol http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/05/13/rnc_hispanic_outreach_operative_becomes_a_democrat.html

 

[TacticalFox88]

lololololololololololol http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/05/13/rnc_hispanic_outreach_operative_becomes_a_democrat.html

Delicious irony.

Goddamn, I love politics some times.

 

[gcubed]

Does this IRS and Justice Dept stuff necessarily/possibly/not trace back to the Obama Administration?

its his administration, and the justice department hasn't been a gleaming beacon of credibility. I think any scrutiny of the press by an administration should be met with equal scrutiny by outside people. Everything could have been by the book, on the up and up, but its not the place of the presidential administration to tell me so.

 

[LilZippa]

I would never want the IRS to be involved in partisan politics, but wouldn't it make sense for the group giving tax exempt status to be wary of a group which doesn't want to pay taxes.

 

[gcubed]

I would never want the IRS to be involved in partisan politics, but wouldn't it make sense for the group giving tax exempt status to be wary of a group which doesn't want to pay taxes.

i dont think they investigate these things hard enough. They need to investigate all groups claiming it though. Whether that is disproportional on one side due to how many groups doesn't matter, but you can't focus only on one side

 

[CHEEZMO™]

*saved*

 

[Tamanon]

i dont think they investigate these things hard enough. They need to investigate all groups claiming it though. Whether that is disproportional on one side due to how many groups doesn't matter, but you can't focus only on one side

Considering the Tea Party stuff made up 72 out of the 300 cases investigated during that time period, I'd be curious what the other part of the list was.

 

[gcubed]

Considering the Tea Party stuff made up 72 out of the 300 cases investigated during that time period, I'd be curious what the other part of the list was.

if the other's were GOP and Democrat-leaning groups filing for exempt then this is the biggest wash of a news story ever, and should be applauded instead of condemned.

Although I highly highly doubt that because if it was the IRS would have released that information to save face and not let this drag on beyond a few hours. I'm sure one of the others was the Dean at ASU

 

[AndyD]

i dont think they investigate these things hard enough. They need to investigate all groups claiming it though. Whether that is disproportional on one side due to how many groups doesn't matter, but you can't focus only on one side

I agree. Investigations need to be far deeper, and more widespread.

But is it good policy to make them completely random, or is it a better use of limited funds to target investigations based on certain criteria? I can see arguments either way. In this case it seems it was a low level decision, and targeted very narrowly, then widened later.

 

[AndyD]

Considering the Tea Party stuff made up 72 out of the 300 cases investigated during that time period, I'd be curious what the other part of the list was.

I wonder what percentage of the applications pending were Tea Party/conservative related. Because 72 out of 300 is approximately 25%, but if total pending Tea Party/Conservative applications were more than 25%, then you could argue they were not targeted at all.

 

[gcubed]

I agree. Investigations need to be far deeper, and more widespread.

But is it good policy to make them completely random, or is it a better use of limited funds to target investigations based on certain criteria? I can see arguments either way. In this case it seems it was a low level decision, and targeted very narrowly, then widened later.

did any of the investigations result in revocation? For proper impartiality I would think you start wide and then start to focus on trends in violations.

 

[LosDaddie]

well, according to my FB feed, Nixon had his IRS snoop on liberal groups and he was impeached. So now Obama deserves the same.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

well, according to my FB feed, Nixon had his IRS snoop on liberal groups and he was impeached. So now Obama deserves the same.

Ummm.... really? Is that actually how they lay it out? Becuase there are probably seven things wrong with that sentence.

 

[AndyD]

did any of the investigations result in revocation? For proper impartiality I would think you start wide and then start to focus on trends in violations.

I agree it would have appeared more fair. Unless there is a history of "anti-government" groups violating rules, in which case this may have been that narrowing you mention. And then you also have the issue of limited resources and a huge increase in applications following Citizen's United, which would naturally bring more scrutiny to these types of applications/groups.

I don't know much about IRS investigations and statistics, but I would be interested in reading more if someone has a good link.

 

[Wilsongt]

Was listening to Diane Rehm on NPR this morning and what was the topic? Benghazibenghazibenghazi irsirsirsirsirs nixon ixon ixon

 

[empty vessel]

Was listening to Diane Rehm on NPR this morning and what was the topic? Benghazibenghazibenghazi irsirsirsirsirs nixon ixon ixon

That show is terrible more often than not.

 

[Wilsongt]

That show is terrible more often than not.

I feel like I age 10 years listening to her. It's either that or Bob Edwards. siriusxm'a npr stations Are dull compared to local.