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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout

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Classic case of Stockholm Syndrome. Rupublicans doing everything they can to make LGBT individuals seem like second class citizens and concurrently use a musty old book to justify their reasons, yet these people will continue to vote against their social interest? It's not like the Republicans do anything useful financially or economically, either, unless you are already super rich.

Double income, no kids. Is it that hard to believe a couple greedy gay people would vote against their social self interests in order to prevent taxes being raised?

Greed really is a motherfucker. It's the driving force behind most things on the "fiscal concervative" side. The fuck you I got mine meme exists for a reason.

It's not like this isn't seen elsewhere too. How many poor people vote republican because they too may make it big one day?
 

Wilsongt

Member
Double income, no kids. Is it that hard to believe a couple greedy gay people would vote against their social self interests in order to prevent taxes being raised?

Greed really is a motherfucker. It's the driving force behind most things on the "fiscal concervative" side. The fuck you I got mine meme exists for a reason.

It's not like this isn't seen elsewhere too. How many poor people vote republican because they too may make it big one day?

Eh, true, You can argue the reason why lower income people vote Republican is because things like Fox News, Rush, and Beck cater their message so that these people can understand and eat it up.

However, so gay couples benefit from marriage more than they do from filing independently?
 
pdfnews.asp


Bad news for Obamacare
 

Videoneon

Member
how many times do I have to repeat GMO labels do not tell the consumer anything? It's not an allergen, it's not an ingredient (unless you think a few pieces of DNA or RNA constitute an ingredient), it's not a nutrition fact, it doesn't relate to quality or grade.

This is disingenuous. You don't have to care about what's on the label to realize what it tells the consumer. It's a different method of production.

It doesn't relate to vegans or religious reasons either.

You should care how strict GMO testing is and keeping it strict before it comes to market not little labels.

Prop 65 was loved by lawyers who wanted to make a quick buck.
http://m.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/Prop-65-lawsuit-bill-helps-businesses-4876499.php

I'm with Chichikov on this. On the idea that it's a lifestyle choice, I don't see the problem with GMO labeling. Plenty of other countries already label (though I think banning is too far), and the idea that people shouldn't be able to seek out something relevant to this particular conflict, however dubious, is absurd. We can't preemptively shut down an otherwise harmless idea - a position you would seem to accept were it not for the fact that there is FUD out there about GMOs - because of fear of social backlash. I don't see a good argument for how varying degrees of aversion, some hypothetical and some not, preclude the ability for others to make their choice on the matter.

This country, like others, isn't going to suddenly lose its shit once GMO labels are out there. The NonGMO Project label is already found on Kettle Chips, for example. And even assuming we get labeling--then what? Are poor people going to deprive themselves of food? Buy "prohibitively costly" food or force themselves into starvation? If your concern is about price of labeling - then we should simply move toward a federal mandate on labeling. And I think the comment on paternalism was interesting--because under what scenario is it that GMO foods, which are for all intents and purposes safe, are going to become prohibitively costly? is everyone going to switch to non-gmo production? My impression is that prices for non-gmo production would stay the same or decline, if indeed the "bourgeois" movement to secure labeling has any teeth.

I think the urban caveman movement (it's also popular with libertarianism) is ridiculous but I don't think there's a reason to do anything about it. There are health risks like accepting loss of blood, as it simulates encountering danger in the wild, but I don't think legal restraint would be effective nor reasonable. I'm really skeptical of suggestions of less oversight, besides. You've heard about the recent "Monsanto Protection Act," right?

To be clear, yes, the vast majority of literature suggests GMO crops are safe to eat, there doesn't seem to be a specific harmful mutation of something out there.

By the way, what was your Prop 65 parallel suggesting? I don't see it.

Gay people can't vote republican? What if they're conservative.

One of these days the Log Cabin Republicans will pick up steam.

Or, see empty vessel's comment. =P
 
Classic case of Stockholm Syndrome. Rupublicans doing everything they can to make LGBT individuals seem like second class citizens and concurrently use a musty old book to justify their reasons, yet these people will continue to vote against their social interest? It's not like the Republicans do anything useful financially or economically, either, unless you are already super rich.

Was it ok for gay people to vote republican in 2008 when both candidates opposed gay marriage?
 
So I just want to point out that African-Americans were 20% of the Virginian electorate in 2012.

In 2013 they were... 20%

Anyone saying black voters won't turn out in off years without Obama on the ballot is full of shit coughpd

Youth turnout is still a problem, 19% in 2012 to 13% in 2013, though that's an improvement from 10% in 2009
 
So I just want to point out that African-Americans were 20% of the Virginian electorate in 2012.

In 2013 they were... 20%

Anyone saying black voters won't turn out in off years without Obama on the ballot is full of shit coughpd

well if 80 white people vote, and 20 black people vote, that's 20%. But if 8 white people vote and only 2 black people vote it's still 20% but does it matter?

I got nothin'. Impressive numbers
 
I don't know that that's even true anymore, to be honest. I think the Republican party is acting so radically that even the very wealthy's interests may not be protected by that party. It's basically the party of extreme nativists right now.

Naw. They can cut the money off.

They are continuing to try to ride the tiger.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
I haven't had time to try to look up the deal on Christie. Any posts here I should look at?

From what I've glanced at he seems like the least partisan prominent republican right now.
 

KingK

Member
That may just mean that they are not acting rationally, not that the Republican party is serving their interests effectively.

If the wealthy abandon the Republican party and allow it to collapse the national debate automatically shifts to the left. It's better for them to try to re-tame the party than to let it die, even if it is currently so radical that it hurts their interests to a degree in the short term.
 
Maybe I don't watch television that often, but I saw my first ad for Kay Hagan last night while watching NCIS. It wasn't her ad, per se, but from a pro-Hagan (or perhaps just pro-Democrat) PAC. I guess 2014 has officially started in North Carolina.

I read another article today about a Charlotte republican being served notice from Virginia-based Tea Party PAC that dude did not serve his constituents... in North Carolina. It's so good that they know in Virginia what we want in Charlotte, I guess. Edit: http://campaigntracker.blogspot.com/2013/11/tea-party-suicide-mission-in-nc.html
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I was lucky enough (I think) to hear Charlie Cook speak today at my company. Less platitudey than he has been in the past, but still nothing earth shattering. Still, general thoughts from him: unlikely to see Dems take the house or Republicans take the Senate; Hillary at 70% to run, "skeptical" that Christie runs, sees Alabama runoff yesterday as "Fort Sumter" in the GOP civil war, thinks Dems will have a similar civil war if they are pushed to decide on entitlement cuts. Thinks Jeb Bush would make a good candidate but does not think he will run, cites family issues (wife hates politics). Says the two to watch on the Republican side are Rand Paul and Scott Walker. Paul is "much more adept" a politician than the tea party people that elected him and that everyone else thought he would be, and Walker is a big business/chamber of commerce champion.

He thinks pretty little of the tea party congressmen.

Thinks Virginia has basically fully shifted into the "mid-atlantic" type state category vs. southern state. Thinks NC is moving in that direction despite bullshit over the past 12 months. Thinks Dems have a chance in Georgia provided the Republicans nominate a shitty candidate; he says the top vote getters in the current runoff process are shitty. Says Nunn is a great candidate. Likes Grimes in Kentucky but realizes Kentucky would vote against any incumbent at this point.
 

Chichikov

Member
That picture is killing me :lol
I was just GISing "OMG Socialism" and ended up laughing for a solid 5 minutes, and now I'm going to over-use it into the ground!
Might have to communismfy (shut up, it's a word!) RonPaulHappening.gif for the 2015 election.
 
I was lucky enough (I think) to hear Charlie Cook speak today at my company. Less platitudey than he has been in the past, but still nothing earth shattering. Still, general thoughts from him: unlikely to see Dems take the house or Republicans take the Senate; Hillary at 70% to run, "skeptical" that Christie runs, sees Alabama runoff yesterday as "Fort Sumter" in the GOP civil war, thinks Dems will have a similar civil war if they are pushed to decide on entitlement cuts. Thinks Jeb Bush would make a good candidate but does not think he will run, cites family issues (wife hates politics). Says the two to watch on the Republican side are Rand Paul and Scott Walker. Paul is "much more adept" a politician than the tea party people that elected him and that everyone else thought he would be, and Walker is a big business/chamber of commerce champion.

He thinks pretty little of the tea party congressmen.

Thinks Virginia has basically fully shifted into the "mid-atlantic" type state category vs. southern state. Thinks NC is moving in that direction despite bullshit over the past 12 months. Thinks Dems have a chance in Georgia provided the Republicans nominate a shitty candidate; he says the top vote getters in the current runoff process are shitty. Says Nunn is a great candidate. Likes Grimes in Kentucky but realizes Kentucky would vote against any incumbent at this point.
What's the opposite of diablosing? That's what Charlie Cook is doing.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I was lucky enough (I think) to hear Charlie Cook speak today at my company. Less platitudey than he has been in the past, but still nothing earth shattering. Still, general thoughts from him: unlikely to see Dems take the house or Republicans take the Senate; Hillary at 70% to run, "skeptical" that Christie runs, sees Alabama runoff yesterday as "Fort Sumter" in the GOP civil war, thinks Dems will have a similar civil war if they are pushed to decide on entitlement cuts. Thinks Jeb Bush would make a good candidate but does not think he will run, cites family issues (wife hates politics). Says the two to watch on the Republican side are Rand Paul and Scott Walker. Paul is "much more adept" a politician than the tea party people that elected him and that everyone else thought he would be, and Walker is a big business/chamber of commerce champion.

He thinks pretty little of the tea party congressmen.

Thinks Virginia has basically fully shifted into the "mid-atlantic" type state category vs. southern state. Thinks NC is moving in that direction despite bullshit over the past 12 months. Thinks Dems have a chance in Georgia provided the Republicans nominate a shitty candidate; he says the top vote getters in the current runoff process are shitty. Says Nunn is a great candidate. Likes Grimes in Kentucky but realizes Kentucky would vote against any incumbent at this point.

Sorry, but Rand Paul is a goddamn fool. Anyone who says differently hasn't been paying attention, look how he reacted to the most minor of scandals!
 

leroidys

Member
Sorry, but Rand Paul is a goddamn fool. Anyone who says differently hasn't been paying attention, look how he reacted to the most minor of scandals!

That was weird, but to be somewhat fair Rachel Maddow has some strange obsession with Rand Paul and keeps trying to pin idiotic "scandals" on him. It's really discordant with some of her other stuff, as she is essentially the only late night talking head on MSNBC or Fox that ever attempts anything close to investigative journalism.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
That was weird, but to be somewhat fair Rachel Maddow has some strange obsession with Rand Paul and keeps trying to pin idiotic "scandals" on him. It's really discordant with some of her other stuff, as she is essentially the only late night talking head on MSNBC or Fox that ever attempts anything close to investigative journalism.

Nah, it just seems like she's having fun ribbing him on this sorta stuff.

Though I wouldn't doubt her holding a grudge for him never returning after his disastrous interview with her in 2010.
 
What's the opposite of diablosing? That's what Charlie Cook is doing.
Strifing

I will say Rand Paul is better at playing the political game than his father, but he's still kind of a chump. I could see Walker emerging as a superstar on the right but he'd lose to Hillary, obviously.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
That was weird, but to be somewhat fair Rachel Maddow has some strange obsession with Rand Paul and keeps trying to pin idiotic "scandals" on him. It's really discordant with some of her other stuff, as she is essentially the only late night talking head on MSNBC or Fox that ever attempts anything close to investigative journalism.

I agree that it was a dumb scandal, but how he dealt with it was very telling. All it would have taken was a "we got a little sloppy, it happens but going forward we will be more responsible". Boom! Done. Going forward just add a "so-and-so said" or an "according to so-and-so" and it would have been fine. If this is how he dealt with someone super minor with the easiest fix in the world, then I want him nowhere near anything important. Imagine how he'd deal with a real scandal.
 
I agree that it was a dumb scandal, but how he dealt with it was very telling. All it would have taken was a "we got a little sloppy, it happens but going forward we will be more responsible". Boom! Done. Going forward just add a "so-and-so said" or an "according to so-and-so" and it would have been fine. If this is how he dealt with someone super minor with the easiest fix in the world, then I want him nowhere near anything important. Imagine how he'd deal with a real scandal.

Yeah, this. It was a silly scandal but Rand Paul went nonlinear on a stupid silly scandal that he could have easily dispatched by saying "Certain members of my staff were cutting and pasting without telling me so I let them go."

He lost his weekly column at the (complete joke paper) Washington Times over this. Not a great way to start out his 2016 dreams.
 
I don't think Grimes will beat McConnell, but Obamacare's amazing Kentucky roll out will certainly help her.

It is certainly a long-shot. But at the very minimum, the GOP will end up having to waste a lot of money just trying to save their minority leader. And that right there is a big gain.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Yeah, this. It was a silly scandal but Rand Paul went nonlinear on a stupid silly scandal that he could have easily dispatched by saying "Certain members of my staff were cutting and pasting without telling me so I let them go."

He lost his weekly column at the (complete joke paper) Washington Times over this. Not a great way to start out his 2016 dreams.

Also his solution wasn't a solution, but a way to give him time to cover his own ass when he does it again. His solution would only have made the citations available when asked, it wouldn't have actually put them in normally. Which would still make it plagiarism.

Also who knew the Washington Times had any sort of integrity, that's the real surprise in all of this.
 
Also his solution wasn't a solution, but a way to give him time to cover his own ass when he does it again. His solution would only have made the citations available when asked, it wouldn't have actually put them in normally. Which would still make it plagiarism.

Also who knew the Washington Times had any sort of integrity, that's the real surprise in all of this.

LOL! That is the same reaction I had.
 
The Gattaca plagiarism thing was just weird. How hard is it to simply paraphrase the summary they gave? Why would you opt to copy is almost word for word?

Paul's response was actually very unsurprising when you remember that the far right conservatives live in a bubble. And in this bubble, the left wing media is evil and out to get them. So where a rational thinking person might say "well, it appears one of my speechwriters did not do their due diligence and copied wikipedia and it is not acceptable, and they have been dealt with. My office has higher standards and I apologize," Rand Paul thinks "WTF god damn liberal media attacking me for BS again. I'm gonna defend myself!"

It's the same reason why Romney got tripped up on Benghazi during the 2nd debate.

I'm fairly certain Rand Paul does almost none of the writing for anything he does, mostly because he's a moron, but also because it's obvious he doesn't know what's going on. Seems to be part of the Paul family after his father's newsletter fiasco and didn't Rand also have a racist dude work in his staff that he had to recently fire?

These guys are completely oblivious to their surroundings. The people that work for them know this as well. Also makes sense given their libertarian lean, so they just delegate and not oversee assuming people will do shit without cutting corners. WHOOPS!

It's a bigger story than it should be (it's not a scandal at all originally) because he's a moron living in a moronic bubble.
 
I don't think Obamacare's performance in KY is going to matter much for a federal election when people know that nationally the website is still having problems.

People talk about how all politics is local but that's not really so true anymore.
Yeah but McConnell's spin on it has been pretty awful

"Well, 85 percent of the people who've signed up in Kentucky have signed up for Medicaid. That's free health care. If you want to give out free health care you're going to have a lot of interest. Just like free anything else. There've also been, if you look at the statistics today, I believe I'm correct, about 270,000 cancellations of policies that people already had. So I know there's been a great effort on the part of the administration and the governor of Kentucky to paint a pretty picture. The rollout is quite mixed -- quite mixed -- and largely people signing up for Medicaid. Free health care."
And they wouldn't have had Medicaid unless Obamacare. If ACA is understood to be a success in Kentucky than it at worst neutralizes the issue between the two candidates.
 

Sibylus

Banned
I think Rand Paul's problem is that not only does he think writing speeches is beneath him, his speechwriter feels much the same way.

Know another place where everyone has to wear the same pair of pants? Rapture.
 
Nothing would rock my jollies more than an election night result where Democrats break even in the Senate (-SD,WV,+KY,GA), pick up 6-8 governorships and 30 seats in the House. Here's hoping for another shutdown before election day.

Of course, Democrats already have one pickup opportunity before then - FL-13, where Alex Sink has been killing it in fundraising.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
John Stewart's segment on Obama's lie about people keeping their insurance was really interesting. Obama clearly stretched the truth to the point of it being a lie, and no one should be ok with the president lieing for political reasons, and normally I despise the "both sides do it" defense.

But you can't really talk about Obama's lie without the context of the freaking outragous lies that the other side was telling about every single tiny thing they could possibly get a handle on. And Republicans were completely getting away with all of those lies, no one in the media called them out for it, and voters believed them.

What the hell are you supposed to do in that situation if you're Obama? There's a great reason that some insurance plans will be canceled. Insurance companies giving low premium, and low deductible plans to people with the intention of canceling the plan whenever those people actually need to use it isn't right. But what if he said "some people will have their plans canceled because ..."? His "because..." would be completely filtered out and everyone would go to town on the statement.

We are talking about a time when death panels were actually treated like they were a legitimate thing in the ACA. Honestly everyone but Obama created a situation in which the only correct course of action was to lie.
 
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