PoliGAF 2014 |OT2| We need to be more like Disney World

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm hoping to see final turnout numbers soon because they look horrible by comparison alone but you factor in population growth and it's brutal.

The demographics will be even worse.
 
benjipwns said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...df6f7a-62c7-11e4-bb14-4cfea1e742d5_story.html
Click to expand...

Lawyers negotiated for months over legal minutia, with Obama’s counselors insisting that the president appear only as a guest and do no donor solicitation, which would have violated federal law. After Obama appeared at two Senate Majority PAC events — June 17 in New York and July 22 in Seattle — the president’s lawyers demanded that no staffer follow up with the donors for at least seven days.

These contingencies were so strict, Krone argued, that it would be fruitless to involve the president at all. “They were setting the rules as they saw fit,” he said. “For some reason, they hid behind a lot of legal issues.”
Click to expand...

Is this guy bitching that the President wasn't willing to commit crimes? Is this deep satire?
 
"The 18- to 29-year-olds backed Democrats by 55 to 42 percent and the 30- to 44-year-olds backed Democrats by 52 to 46 percent."

Another example of people running with a narrative that never existed. If they didn't win these age groups in 2014 of all years they never will.
 
Dems lost because:

90-95% of the population already knows which way they are going to vote in most circumstances unless you get usually bad candidates on one side (i.e. Akin).

Republicans know in mid terms they only need their base to turn up.

Democrats think it is still all about the undecideds.

They try so hard to avoid being seen as being a Democrat that the base itself gets disillusioned. So it doesn't turn up.
 
Beyond other electoral reforms, it seems to me that we need to do away with midterm elections. That, or pass laws requiring mandatory voting for all elections. In the absence of laws requiring mandatory voting, midterm elections are undemocratic in that we know empirically that they do not work. The reasons why they don't work don't matter. We know they don't work, and so we should not accept them as legitimate expressions of democratic will and are obligated to find alternative solutions, at least if we believe in democratic government.
 
fXph5zZ.jpg
 
empty vessel said:
Beyond other electoral reforms, it seems to me that we need to do away with midterm elections. That, or pass laws requiring mandatory voting for all elections. In the absence of laws requiring mandatory voting, midterm elections are undemocratic in that we know empirically that they do not work. The reasons why they don't work don't matter. We know they don't work, and so we should not accept them as legitimate expressions of democratic will and are obligated to find alternative solutions, at least if we believe in democratic government.
Click to expand...

We should also illegalize the party system.
 
empty vessel said:
Beyond other electoral reforms, it seems to me that we need to do away with midterm elections. That, or pass laws requiring mandatory voting for all elections. In the absence of laws requiring mandatory voting, midterm elections are undemocratic in that we know empirically that they do not work. The reasons why they don't work don't matter. We know they don't work, and so we should not accept them as legitimate expressions of democratic will and are obligated to find alternative solutions, at least if we believe in democratic government.
Click to expand...

Well, speak of the devil. Nice to see you back among the living.

When you say that midterms "do not work," what do you mean? Do you mean there is insufficient turnout? If so, what level of voter participation would you consider adequate to render the outcome a "legitimate expression of democratic will"?
 
empty vessel said:
Beyond other electoral reforms, it seems to me that we need to do away with midterm elections. That, or pass laws requiring mandatory voting for all elections. In the absence of laws requiring mandatory voting, midterm elections are undemocratic in that we know empirically that they do not work. The reasons why they don't work don't matter. We know they don't work, and so we should not accept them as legitimate expressions of democratic will and are obligated to find alternative solutions, at least if we believe in democratic government.
Click to expand...

I'm not really seeing the problem here. What makes a midterm any different from a presidential election anyway? That's just a midterm with a presidential race thrown in. I don't think the celebrity appeal of a presidential race should be the thing that saves democracy.

Besides, how would the senate work? Will we pick two senators per state in the same election every 4 years, or will we extend the already long terms to be even longer at 8 years?
 
Metaphoreus said:
Well, speak of the devil. Nice to see you back among the living.

When you say that midterms "do not work," what do you mean? Do you mean there is insufficient turnout? If so, what level of voter participation would you consider adequate to render the outcome a "legitimate expression of democratic will"?
Click to expand...

My post about abandoning midterms was conditioned on the absence of legal voting mandates. Obviously, even presidential election years fall well short of what that would accomplish, but even absent mandatory voting requirements they have higher turnout than midterms and are therefore more democratically legitimate. All this to say, I support mandatory voting requirements.

thepotatoman said:
I'm not really seeing the problem here. What makes a midterm any different from a presidential election anyway? That's just a midterm with a presidential race thrown in. I don't think the celebrity appeal of a presidential race should be the thing that saves democracy.

Besides, how would the senate work? Will we pick two senators per state in the same election every 4 years, or will we extend the already long terms to be even longer at 8 years?
Click to expand...

See above. We either institute mandatory voting or change the terms for Congress. I don't think there is anything special about six year terms for Senators. Make them eight year terms. Representatives can get four year terms. Or just make voting mandatory. All of those seem like better options than pretending like midterm elections represent an authentic expression of the society's will.

We can tsk tsk people who don't vote in midterm elections all we want, but the fact remains that it is entirely predictable that many people won't vote. And so if one takes democratic governance seriously, one should seek to remedy that problem.
 
I know we took a beating, but why is everyone saying this election was a bigger "wave" than 2010? Need I remind everyone that the Reps won OVER SIXTY seats in the House and seven in the senate?
 
Regardless of Washington, here in Michigan there seemed to be so much hate for the job Rick Snyder has done yet it utterly failed to translate to getting people out to vote him out. IDK if I'd call Mark Schauer a good candidate but still on the Democrat side there was around a 43% drop in votes opposed to on the Republican side where it dropped 31%. Yay midterm apathy for the uhh "youngsters" and the general public.
 
Metaphoreus said:
Well, speak of the devil. Nice to see you back among the living.

When you say that midterms "do not work," what do you mean? Do you mean there is insufficient turnout? If so, what level of voter participation would you consider adequate to render the outcome a "legitimate expression of democratic will"?
Click to expand...

Someone just last page pointed out that something like 19% of the population picks elected representatives, which is kind of horrendous. We definitely need to do something about voter turnout, or else we're stuck with whole generations of people whos opinions and views are not adequately represented by the Government. I feel like that's the issue now. It's pretty clear most people want Marriage Equality and Marijuana Decriminalization at the least, but we can't seem to get all the 18-30 year olds out to vote unless it's a presidential election, and even that turnout is fantastic.

Honestly, I like the way I heard WA does their voting, a ballot sent right to your house, and election day is dedicated to counting them. This gives people the opportunity to research candidates at home when they get free time. I know I can't be the only person who picks random folks for some positions. Like I know who all 23 of the Justice of the Peace candidates are, or for that matter the difference between Tom Sorrell and the other candidates for Attorny General. At least if the ballots are sent to you in advance you can spend the time to research some of the candidates. A better informed electorate is never a bad thing. I think a lot of people just feel like we don't have a legitimate representative democracy.

EDIT: Also, Ben Casselman at fivethirtyeight nailed it;
So voters want a higher minimum wage, legal pot, abortion access and GOP representation. Ok then.
Click to expand...
 
People that run on "i am not a republican" fail to motivate their base?

I am totally surprised.

Mamba has it right. This was not a republican victory. It was a democratic loss.

But hey, pragmatism. It only fucked democrats in 00, 04, hillary in 08, romney in 12, made rick fucking scott remain in florida and kept the turtle around. Keep that up, guys.
Bound to work some time.
Any day now.
 
I don't see how forcing people to vote would improve things. People are largely uneducated about the issues and candidates. Is it better to mix in a bunch of uninformed votes from people that don't want to know and don't care?

Ultimately the act of not voting is just as legitimate in a democracy as voting is.

Mandatory voting, when many people don't like any of the available candidates and are disillusioned by their government, seems like an authoritarian measure to reinforce party lines. Because at best you get people voting "no vote" on most issues and positions on which they're uninformed, and at worst you get people just voting down team, er, I mean, party lines, further dumbing down the political process.


By the way,
As much as Republicans gave the Democrats an ass-pounding tonight, you should feel good that the electorate IS moving left. Legalizing pot, raising minimum wage.... and not only that, but Republicans were hammering Dems on not practicing what they preach. In Oregon, for instance, Wehby went after Merkley for not paying women as much as men. Furthermore she's a pro-choice Republican. If Republicans start winning on a platform based on what Democrats preach but don't practice, then that seems like an overall good thing to me. Who gives a shit about the letter next to their name.
 
Okay I'm headed to bed now. Gonna cry myself to sleep.

Before I leave, I'd just like to say fuck you, Aaron Strife.

Good night and good luck.
 
I said it in 2010 and I'll say it again:

The democrats will keep losing until they start using the same mudslinging and political scare-tactics the republicans use. It is the only way Average Joe American is convinced.
 
The fact Hickenlooper looks like he'll pull a close one out shows how shitty a campaign Udall ran.

Probably the shittiest of all the Democrats this cycle, which is saying something.
 
timetokill said:
By the way,
As much as Republicans gave the Democrats an ass-pounding tonight, you should feel good that the electorate IS moving left. Legalizing pot, raising minimum wage.... and not only that, but Republicans were hammering Dems on not practicing what they preach. In Oregon, for instance, Wehby went after Merkley for not paying women as much as men. Furthermore she's a pro-choice Republican. If Republicans start winning on a platform based on what Democrats preach but don't practice, then that seems like an overall good thing to me. Who gives a shit about the letter next to their name.
Click to expand...

Republicans practice a flawed economic policy.

They criticize Democrats for being like Europe. Yet, the policies of austerity that Republicans prescribe are exactly the policies that got Europe into a double digit recession. Americans do not realize that, and they will not realize that even after Republicans get us into a mess again.

That's because this country is built on an idea of "personal responsibility" and "rugged individualism." It's not the right philosophy for today's world. The problem isn't that Republicans propose a different solution on economics. The problem is that Republicans are proposing an economic policy that's a proven failure.
 
Sirpopopop said:
That's because this country is built on an idea of "personal responsibility" and "rugged individualism." It's not the right philosophy for today's world. The problem isn't that Republicans propose a different solution on economics. The problem is that Republicans are proposing an economic policy that's a proven failure.
Click to expand...

And Corporations are basically People without all the issues of responsibility. American Capitalism is a mess. Maybe their policies would work in other places (the Smurf's village seems perfect for Supply Side Economics) but it clearly doesn't work here because as Corporations have shown, if you give them any chances to they will immediately do whatever makes them the most money since that is their prime goal. That means if it's cheaper to dump toxins into the air or water they damn sure are going to. Regulation is necessary for that exact reason. Adam Smith himself advocated harsh regulations to keep large businesses in check.
 
Democrats need to take a page out of the republican play book and block everything for the next two years. Then blame them during the 2016 elections for not getting anything done.
 
Chumly said:
Democrats need to take a page out of the republican play book and block everything for the next two years. Then blame them during the 2016 elections for not getting anything done.
Click to expand...

It won't work.

Republicans will actually fight back. They have direct control of a significant amount of media outlets out there.

Democrats can't claim the same.
 
Will Aaron be back??

x( Im sorry Aaron. It was much worse than we thought if you are reading this. Dont worry, we still have hope............

Well my fellow Louisianans, let us mourn Landrieu and prepare for Vitter.

Sigh
 
NeoXChaos said:
Will Aaron be back??

x( Im sorry Aaron. It was much worse than we thought if you are reading this. Dont worry, we still have hope............

Well my fellow Louisianans, let us mourn Landrieu and prepare for Vitter.

Sigh
Click to expand...

If Vitter ends-up elected governor, I want to to organize a diaper mail-in to the governor's mansion. Kinda like Murphy Brown did with potatoes.
 
PHOENIXZERO said:
Regardless of Washington, here in Michigan there seemed to be so much hate for the job Rick Snyder has done yet it utterly failed to translate to getting people out to vote him out. IDK if I'd call Mark Schauer a good candidate but still on the Democrat side there was around a 43% drop in votes opposed to on the Republican side where it dropped 31%. Yay midterm apathy for the uhh "youngsters" and the general public.
Click to expand...
Shauer was a bad candidate. I'm still baffled why the party moved aside and let him waltz to the nomination. He has direct ties to Granholm, did not excite the base, and never really found something interesting to run on.

People simply didn't care, across the country. And that happens when you run away from issues your base cares about+the economy sucks. All this asinine abortion talk yet nothing on drug laws or police reforms. As others had said, Ferguson has basically disappeared, Feds aren't going to do shit either. Democrats made their bed. Honestly the people I feel bad for are in Florida, who won't get healthcare. Just about everywhere else? I understand and am not mad.

And can we talk about the asinine way Obama talks to black people? His "brother's keeper" program was arguably too little too late, but still an interesting idea...that he didn't really follow up on. He walks into black communities every two to four years making light of black voter apathy as if we owe him support, and as if black voting is on the decrease (it isn't). You can't expect fervent support from a group you casually ignore, a group that's dealing with the highest unemployment.
 
empty vessel said:
Beyond other electoral reforms, it seems to me that we need to do away with midterm elections. That, or pass laws requiring mandatory voting for all elections. In the absence of laws requiring mandatory voting, midterm elections are undemocratic in that we know empirically that they do not work. The reasons why they don't work don't matter. We know they don't work, and so we should not accept them as legitimate expressions of democratic will and are obligated to find alternative solutions, at least if we believe in democratic government.
Click to expand...

Goddamn finally you're back
 
Sirpopopop said:
That's because this country is built on an idea of "personal responsibility" and "rugged individualism." It's not the right philosophy for today's world. The problem isn't that Republicans propose a different solution on economics. The problem is that Republicans are proposing an economic policy that's a proven failure.
Click to expand...

Democrats need to figure out a way to effectively use Kansas as an example of what happens when Republican economic policies are allowed to reach their full potential.

Problem is the American public has a piss-poor understanding of even the most basic economic principles.
 
Diablos said:
We have to HOPE that is the case and tonight doesn't really mean there is a growing hunger for GOP everything out of the electorate. Because...


This was completely unexpected. This should not have happened.
Click to expand...
Its called the six year itch effect.
The six-year itch, according to political scientists, is the pattern which takes place during a US president's sixth year in office. This year is characterized by the nation's disgruntled attitude towards the president and his political party. During this time, there is a midterm election and the party in power usually loses a significant number of seats in Congress.
Click to expand...
 
Also shit, what a depressing turn of events. I agree that the Democrats fucked it up, and I agree that voter turnout is a problem. I don't even know if I'd say mandatory voting is the solution so much as we just need some measures, weather its increased early voting, the ballot mail thing, education campaigns, on the streets activism, whatever to increase voter turnout. But of course, one party has a vested interest in keeping turnout low, so that's never going to happen
 
BertramCooper said:
Democrats need to figure out a way to effectively use Kansas as an example of what happens when Republican economic policies are allowed to reach their full potential.

Problem is the American public has a piss-poor understanding of even the most basic economic principles.
Click to expand...
It's hard to do that when you've controlled the economy for six years with little to show for it. People are hurting across the country, I don't see how pointing out that people might be hurting a bit more in Kansas would be a good idea.
 
Sirpopopop said:
Republicans practice a flawed economic policy.

They criticize Democrats for being like Europe. Yet, the policies of austerity that Republicans prescribe are exactly the policies that got Europe into a double digit recession. Americans do not realize that, and they will not realize that even after Republicans get us into a mess again.

That's because this country is built on an idea of "personal responsibility" and "rugged individualism." It's not the right philosophy for today's world. The problem isn't that Republicans propose a different solution on economics. The problem is that Republicans are proposing an economic policy that's a proven failure.
Click to expand...
Yet they keep winning elections on pushing this message centered around a proven failure, as well as fear, intimidation and lies. How they continue to do this in the face of what we have seen in 2008 and 2012 alone baffles me. I go back and forth between taking out the blame on the GOP and the Democratic voter base. This didn't have to happen last night. Democrats should have been able to at least prevent such an embarrassing defeat.

Sirpopopop said:
It won't work.

Republicans will actually fight back. They have direct control of a significant amount of media outlets out there.

Democrats can't claim the same.
Click to expand...
How do Dems respond to this? What can we do? We have the demographics, the registered voters, the issues -- and yet the GOP continues to have a stranglehold on the electorate when they need it.

We barely live in a free country anymore. Between the amount of disinformation and voter suppression this election cycle alone, can anyone really tell me we live in a true democracy where the voice of every voter is heard equally? Not to mention the perverse nature of politics in and of itself because of shit like citizens united, forcing everyone to get in the swamp now, like it or not.

PhoenixDark said:
It's hard to do that when you've controlled the economy for six years with little to show for it. People are hurting across the country, I don't see how pointing out that people might be hurting a bit more in Kansas would be a good idea.
Click to expand...
Obama isn't Bill Clinton but Dems should have been projecting confidence on the UE rate, reminding people of how bad it was when he took office opposed to now. Yeah I know there's always a silver lining for the GOP in that a lot of people have given up and some people just stop looking (I almost found myself in that situation, so you don't need to tell me twice). Also, the GOOD things Obamacare has done, reminded voters that he in fact did keep them safe by killing bin Laden and winding down the wars, etc .etc. They needed to be proactive and they blew it. What the fuck is happening to our party. I feel like it's 2004 right now.

I will say this again, anyone who thinks Hillary is still okay in 2016 is mistaken. Democrats should be meeting behind closed doors between now and election day 2016 to make sure they're in fucking lockstep and hammering away at talking points where and when it matters. No more timid bullshit like what we've seen out of the Grimes campaign among others, no more idiots like Braley.
 
Yeah the House gains are just sickening. I figured they might gain a few more seats but this is just off the fucking rails.

Also Governor-elect Wolf is going to have an even harder time since PA elected more GOPers to the state legislature.

I am glad however that we kicked out Corbett. It's nice to see that on a map that otherwise bent over for the GOP.
 
Diablos said:
Walker, Chrisite, Haley, Bush, Kasich, Rubio, Martinez.
They have a lot of people.

Democrats have Hillary and no one else.

If the GOP keeps gaining traction and Obama's poll numbers keep falling, Dems are in trouble.

Fuck the DNC for apparently jumping into a time warp that goes to pre-2006, pissing away all the sensible shit they did to gain votes in the past 8 years.
Click to expand...

The 2016 Democrat presidential candidate will be Martha Coakley.

You heard it here first.

For the GOP, the fact that all the nutcases got a seal of approval will mean a VERY crowded primary. Everyone can run on their reelection record.
 
Never have I been more frustrated to live in a solidly blue state where there was never any chance of any of the seats flipping, because there was nothing I could do to impact the rest of the country.
 
Diablos said:
Yeah the House gains are just sickening. I figured they might gain a few more seats but this is just off the fucking rails.

Also Governor-elect Wolf is going to have an even hard time since PA elected more GOPers to the state legislature.

I am glad however that we kicked out Corbett. It's nice to see that on a map that otherwise bent over for the GOP.
Click to expand...
After 2012, I was absolutely convinced that Pennsylvania Republicans would be aiming to swap the state's presidential electors over to a Nebraska-style system. Kinda shocked that they didn't take advantage of that window of opportunity.
 
HylianTom said:
After 2012, I was absolutely convinced that Pennsylvania Republicans would be aiming to swap the state's presidential electors over to a Nebraska-style system. Kinda shocked that they didn't take advantage of that window of opportunity.
Click to expand...
If nothing else Wolf won't allow for that.

I am however concerned now that the GOP has an even more commanding lead in Gov seats that they will split up the electoral votes for real this time. Not that they'd be able to in MA, IL or MD of course. But the rest of them just might really start to think about it.
 
Some good news:

BERKELEY MEASURE D SUGARY DRINK TAX
YES 16,966 75%

LOCAL MEASURE E SAN FRANCISCO COUNTY SUGARY DRINK TAX
YES

The corn industry poured millions into fighting these


Also, the "cars are people too" initiative in San Francisco was defeated by a large margin.
 
BertramCooper said:
Democrats need to figure out a way to effectively use Kansas as an example of what happens when Republican economic policies are allowed to reach their full potential.

Problem is the American public has a piss-poor understanding of even the most basic economic principles.
Click to expand...
Kansas seems to like what they're doing though.
 
Diablos said:
If nothing else Wolf won't allow for that.

I am however concerned now that the GOP has an even more commanding lead in Gov seats that they will split up the electoral votes for real this time. Not that they'd be able to in MA, IL or MD of course. But the rest of them just might really start to think about it.
Click to expand...
I haven't looked at all of the new numbers, but I'm not seeing them totally running any semi-reliably blue states where this would significantly change things (thank goodness)
 
It's very possible that 5 of AZ's 9 US House seats will be Democrats. Quite interesting considering how Republicans obliterated Democrats in the state wide elections.
 
Diablos said:
What's the WI state legislature like?
Click to expand...
Oh Wisconsin. Wisconsin is fucked. Its my home state and I have no idea what the hell happened but at this point the people who keep voting Walker deserve what they get.

Although I would probably change my tune if my parents were near the poverty line
 
I think Walker is the real deal. He's got that 2000ish era Dubya sensibility but he can actually speak like a normal person. If he isn't the nominee he'll probably be the VP.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.
397 398 399 400 401
20K
2M
ShadowSwordmaster replied
Are all American supermarkets like Costco?
13
3K
Afro Republican replied
May Wrestling |OT2| We watch it so you don't have to
125 126 127 128 129
6K
355K
H1PSTER replied
  • Locked
PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher
338 339 340 341 342
17K
2M
UselessNapkin replied
  • Locked
Resetera reflects: This place sucks. We want GAF back.
39 40 41 42 43
2K
286K
Palliasso replied
Top Bottom