• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On

Status
Not open for further replies.

Yeah, I remember this story...just as dumb today as it was when I first heard it. Students protest that they just want to focus on black lives being harmed by police is ridiculous. You think the Baltimore cops buckle in every or any white prisoner? Well I can sure tell you the cops on Cops don't nor the Alaska State Troopers nor Bait Car tv show either...it's a systemic problem that encompasses all police forces across the nation.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Big reversal from their previous stance

Rule+34+m8+gr8+b8+m8+i+r8+8+8_d49fd8_5115478.jpg


Mario and Luigi are brothers, they are against incest, not homosexuality!
 
Useful context.



The First Amendment trumps the Commerce Clause, not the other way around.

There have been challenges, and they were unsuccessful. Here's an example from 1951:



That holding has been cited in numerous SCOTUS cases since. For more, you might consult the cases cited by the Court in the following excerpt from a 1982 case:

I really don't understand what they're saying there. It seems blatantly a restriction on the 1st amendment. IMO

Conduct designed not to communicate, but to coerce, merits little consideration under that Amendment
This seems to be an absurd statement. It says one can't pressure someone? That's not protected? What's the difference between communicate and coerce? Their appeals to "protecting the neutral party is absurd" most political speech is directed at "neutrals" all it does is limit the ability of people to reach certain people.
 
This didnt take long.

@Gavin_McInnes
Sikhism is just cultish guru worship and @nikkihaley AKA Nimrata Nikki Randhawa Haley has no place telling Southerners about their history.
Won't get aired in public places but this is shows how tenuous much of the acceptance of non-white Christian Republicans is. (BTW she's a methodist and was born in South Carolina)
 
The Confederate army fought for an odious cause, yet it wasn’t an army of extermination like the Nazis, to which it is now being compared.

Confederate soldiers were Americans, and slavery was an American sin. This is something that Lincoln, a fierce opponent of slavery on principle, was always very clear about. He always said that Southerners were acting just as we would if we were in their circumstances.

Further to that point: The fact is that if anyone banging on about the Confederacy at the moment on Twitter were born in the 1840s in the South, outside of a few select areas, they, too, would have fought for the Confederacy. (UPDATE: It should go without saying that this isn’t true of blacks.) That should lend a measure of modesty to this debate.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corne...ttle-flag-rich-lowry?target=author&tid=900170

Have I mentioned how much the National Review is an odious racist rag (This is by their Editor in Chief)? The bolded is just ridiculously illustrative .

They haven't moved an iota from "the south is right" and their defense of racism in any real sense
 

Mike M

Nick N
It's not trivializing though.

I've been reading up on this ridiculous issue this morning and the commentaries on HuffPost and NYT about the outrage over the 3 words "All lives matter." It's beyond preposterous in both commentaries which directly go off on some lame tangents and spend like 1 sentence on why they don't like those 3 words. I get the fact the black community wants to keep the focus on black lives being murdered for no good reason and the systemic injustice...but whining about "all lives matter" (which all lives do) just comes across as some wonky, self-pity focus that the world "black" isn't included. There's injustice in the system across all aspects of every category. Do those people who fall in categories that aren't black not matter? The hashtag "BlackLivesMatter" over "AllLivesMatter" would seem to indicate yeah, if you ain't black...your life does not matter.

While also looking up the fuss about "All lives matter" this morning I came about some rightwing(I think) article that did make some good points. Apparently 6,000 black lives are taken each year by another black person...yet, can one black person or anyone for that matter name the black person killed by the other black person? Probably not. It was a more intriguing article than the people with their pants in a bind over anyone saying "All lives matter" as I eluded to earlier(NYT, HuffPost).

Also this morning while trying to find the video I saw before of the black guy saying "All lives matter" I came across another(different than I saw before live) newscast from the area...where once again the focus in the Twin Cities area is about "All lives matter"-ing and people of color(black guy by the capital in one) and a mexican girl in this one saying the same damn thing at Black Lives Matter rallies!!!! So why do the black guy and hispanic girl get to say "All lives matter" and Hilary doesn't?

All lives matter isn't triviliazing jack fucking squat because ALL encompasses everything, black, red, blue, brown, pink, rhinos, possums, ants, you name it. It all fucking matters. What's controversial? Stop the faux outrage at Hilary or any other white person(or any color) who says "All lives matter." There's nothing controversial about that. It wasn't a "minor blunder" because it wasn't a blunder at all.

As a progressive liberal I should be on BlackLivesMatter side, and I am...but if they're too damn conservative to control all the "LivesMatter" hashtags and be pissy whenever anyone shows support for other people's lives who aren't black or for "all lives"(including black), who also face injustice...then I'm not on their side. ALL LIVES FUCKING MATTER. It's ridiculous I'm having this conversation and that people are upset that someone said "All lives matter." It's like they're not even competent...and the words being said in a church which one would think the attendees would have some spiritual understanding of the soul and that everything is here for a reason and life does have purpose...it's mind numbingly stupid to be upset about "All lives mattering."

In the good news, if they're pissed with Hilary who are they going to vote for? Bernie! Thanks Hilary for doing nothing wrong (in this instance) and pissing off your base.
K.
 

Crisco

Banned
The Confederate army fought for an odious cause, yet it wasn’t an army of extermination like the Nazis, to which it is now being compared.

You really need to check yourself when your best defense for a particular cause is "well, it wasn't as bad as the Nazis.....".
 
Putin truly is a master class troll/politician. From interview to an italian newspaper.

Vlad The Rad said:
We have kept since Soviet times a military unit at a base in Armenia. It plays a certain stabilising role in the region, but it is not targeted against anyone. We have dismantled our bases in various regions of the world, including Cuba, Vietnam, and so on. This means that our policy in this respect is not global, offensive or aggressive. I invite you to publish the world map in your newspaper and to mark all the US military bases on it. You will see the difference.] We have kept since Soviet times a military unit at a base in Armenia. It plays a certain stabilising role in the region, but it is not targeted against anyone. We have dismantled our bases in various regions of the world, including Cuba, Vietnam, and so on. This means that our policy in this respect is not global, offensive or aggressive.

I invite you to publish the world map in your newspaper and to mark all the US military bases on it. You will see the difference.

Also Jacobin pointing out that the idea that hardhats curbstomped hipsters is largerly a myth. Do wish that the writer had done a better job of linking his sauces.
 

There is not a single Confederate soldier that fought honorably because it was a fundamentally dishonorable cause.

That doesn't mean there weren't any otherwise honorable people fighting for the Confederacy, or that there weren't any Confederate soldiers fighting for reasons unrelated to slavery.

But you simply can't classify any service in the Confederate Army as honorable.

I can't figure out why southerners are so sensitive about this shit. They're your ancestors. You don't have to defend them. I have little doubt that I have a number of truly horrible people from centuries ago who have contributed to my genes, but I'm not going to take criticism of them as an attack on me. That would be silly.
 
There is not a single Confederate soldier that fought honorably because it was a fundamentally dishonorable cause.

That doesn't mean there weren't any otherwise honorable people fighting for the Confederacy, or that there weren't any Confederate soldiers fighting for reasons unrelated to slavery.

But you simply can't classify any service in the Confederate Army as honorable.

I can't figure out why southerners are so sensitive about this shit. They're your ancestors. You don't have to defend them. I have little doubt that I have a number of truly horrible people from centuries ago who have contributed to my genes, but I'm not going to take criticism of them as an attack on me. That would be silly.

Because bloodlines are something people actually concern themselves with in the south and insulting their ancestors is the same as insulting their very being. In their minds, anyway.
 

KingK

Member
You really need to check yourself when your best defense for a particular cause is "well, it wasn't as bad as the Nazis.....".

And it's not even true. I don't see how one could deny that the institution of slavery was every bit as bad as what the Nazis did.
 
And it's not even true. I don't see how one could deny that the institution of slavery was every bit as bad as what the Nazis did.

Well it's not like slavery was something spontaneously invented like organized genocide. Slavery is one of the oldest human practices following the period of civilization. I don't think it's worthwhile to compare them to make a point for or against. They're both godawful.

Sherman should have finished the job.

I feel like Sherman's tactics actually helped keep racia divisions and "confederate spirit" or whatever you want to call it alive after the war. All these poor white people saw former slaves getting land grants while all their farms were torched and salted. Certainly didn't help mend any fences.
 
I can't figure out why southerners are so sensitive about this shit. They're your ancestors. You don't have to defend them. I have little doubt that I have a number of truly horrible people from centuries ago who have contributed to my genes, but I'm not going to take criticism of them as an attack on me. That would be silly.

This is what I can't figure out. We're all so very very removed from any ties to the Civil war. My mother recently went on a family tree frenzy and found we have relatives on both the union and rebel side. I live in California. I don't feel ties to the north or the south. I just feel American.
 
This is what I can't figure out. We're all so very very removed from any ties to the Civil war. My mother recently went on a family tree frenzy and found we have relatives on both the union and rebel side. I live in California. I don't feel ties to the north or the south. I just feel American.

Well you have to imagine you grew up in a hot, humid, impoverished shithole with infrastructural deficiencies that exist as a direct result of the Civil War with terrible public education and no upward mobility. If you can picture that you might imagine your great grandpappy charging at a bunch of bluecoats as the last pride-worthy thing in your family history.

Like BC said, all stemming from Johnson's early ending of Reconstruction.
 
Well you have to imagine you grew up in a hot, humid, impoverished shithole with infrastructural deficiencies that exist as a direct result of the Civil War with terrible public education and no upward mobility. If you can picture that you might imagine your great grandpappy charging at a bunch of bluecoats as the last pride-worthy thing in your family history.

Like BC said, all stemming from Johnson's early ending of Reconstruction.

Believe me I've tried to see it from this perspective. I'm fairly proud of my Italian heritage as my father immigrated from there. However I don't consider myself Italian and don't think the last prideful thing my family did was escape Tito.

I find my past family history interesting and in no way a reflection of my current self.
 
You can be proud of your state without being proud of the confederacy. Just like you can be proud to be German without being proud of the Nazis. If you want to honor your history, fly your state flag or the US flag from that era (33-35 star); President Lincoln refused to remove the stars for a reason. It's not like people complain that the Nazi flag should be present in WWII memorials because good Germans died too.
 

KingK

Member
Well it's not like slavery was something spontaneously invented like organized genocide. Slavery is one of the oldest human practices following the period of civilization. I don't think it's worthwhile to compare them to make a point for or against. They're both godawful.



I feel like Sherman's tactics actually helped keep racia divisions and "confederate spirit" or whatever you want to call it alive after the war. All these poor white people saw former slaves getting land grants while all their farms were torched and salted. Certainly didn't help mend any fences.

Well it's not like the Nazis invented genocide either, they were just really good at it. But yeah, that's the point I was trying to make. They're both terrible, evil things that represent the lowest, worst aspects of humanity and there's no point in saying "well this one is worse!"

Speaking of Sherman, I'm driving from Indiana to Florida this summer. I'm temped to stop and burn every Confederate flag I see along the way and chronicle the trip on twitter with the hashtag #Sherman'sMarch lol
I wouldn't really do that because I don't want to get arrested and/or shot, but it was a funny thought
 
Believe me I've tried to see it from this perspective. I'm fairly proud of my Italian heritage as my father immigrated from there. However I don't consider myself Italian and don't think the last prideful thing my family did was escape Tito.

I find my past family history interesting and in no way a reflection of my current self.

Well if everyone constantly reminded you that you were descended from (I don't know any actual Italian stereotypes from that era, so here's one I made up) "an il dulce loving goose stepper" you might get defensive over time, too.

Southern people get shit on and stereotyped a lot due to their history, not that that excuses flying the confederate flag or being racist or any of that nonsense and not that it's in any way equivalent to the suffering of many other groups in the US, but it's to the point where I intentionally ditched my native accent after I moved northward so people would stop automatically assuming I was racist and/or stupid.

Again, I'm not defending "rebel pride" style garbage, I'm just trying to explain why southerners get so offended when their ancestry gets caught up in the debate. I mean if you wanna go all the way back it has its roots in the colonial era where most southern colonists were poor Scots-Irish who were pushed out of Britain and then looked down on by the more Anglican population in the northern colonies.
 
You can be proud of your state without being proud of the confederacy. Just like you can be proud to be German without being proud of the Nazis. If you want to honor your history, fly your state flag or the US flag from that era (33-35 star); President Lincoln refused to remove the stars for a reason. It's not like people complain that the Nazi flag should be present in WWII memorials because good Germans died too.

CISaVGRWsAAays2.png
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
This is for you, Diablos: Jim Blumstein on why the procedural posture of King v. Burwell might matter

James Blumstein said:
Lost in these discussions – especially those that have focused on the potential for immediate disarray in state insurance markets – has been the procedural posture of the litigation now pending before the Supreme Court. Sometimes, and this is one of those times, analysts have to view the courts as, well, courts – governed by procedural rules that normally apply to courts and that govern their behavior and outcomes.

So, this is the point here – the cries of immediate disarray are shrill but misdirected because of the procedural posture of the pending case before the Supreme Court.

The lower court (the Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit) granted the government’s motion to dismiss the case. A motion to dismiss is premised on the following reasoning: Even if plaintiffs’ facts are correct, their legal claim is unwarranted — there is no legal violation asserted in the pleadings. If the Supreme Court agrees with the plaintiffs’ challenge in King, holding that the IRS regulation is invalid, then the Court can only overturn the lower courts’ granting of the government’s motion to dismiss. Procedurally, that is the only relief that the Supreme Court can grant at this stage.

Of course, if the Supreme Court rules favorably for plaintiffs’ position, the plaintiffs will win their case – eventually. But some additional procedural steps are needed, and they will take some time.

...

At oral argument, Chief Justice John Roberts was aware of the procedural posture of the case – a motion to dismiss. And Justice Samuel Alito asked about the Court’s options for a phase-in type of remedy. The Court is not oblivious to these practical considerations and might even incorporate thoughts or instructions on these remedial and transitional matters. My guess is that these are the very matters of refinement still being worked out if, as I now suspect, the Supreme Court rules for plaintiffs. And these discussions might be particularly delicate as the remedial and timing issues might involve different coalitions of justices than on the issues concerning the merits of the case itself.

This breathing room will give the various players – states, Congress, the Obama Administration, insurance carriers, hospitals and other providers – time to consider next steps; and it will allow for a transition to the next stage without an abrupt change in the insurance status of those currently receiving subsidies but whose subsidies are not legally appropriate under a proper interpretation of the ACA.
 

NewLib

Banned
Ugh Sherman's March is easily one of the most overblown events in American History. It wasn't any more particularly notable than any other large military marching through enemy territory except that it gets modern Southerners in a tizzy.
 
West Virginia, really?

I know that the GOP has thoroughly spooked you on "the war on coal," but.. Trump over Hillary?

Say it ain't so..

I'm surprised more states didn't stick red. I didn't think Trump was polarizing enough to change the political landscape to mostly blue on that EV map. Crazy really.
 
This is what I can't figure out. We're all so very very removed from any ties to the Civil war. My mother recently went on a family tree frenzy and found we have relatives on both the union and rebel side. I live in California. I don't feel ties to the north or the south. I just feel American.

I'm a 1st generation born American, though my mom grew up here. But my dad didn't and came near his 30s. He's super well-knowledged about world history but actually knows little about American history from about 1800-WWI. We all live in Cali.

He is completely perplexed by the South's view of the Confederacy. He's all "I don't understand...they celebrate a side that lost? A side that fought to keep black slaves? A side that tried to become not America? Explain this to me, I don't get it."

He understands that prejudice remains, he understands how blacks have been to this day institutionally fucked, etc, but this one thing he can't wrap his head around. The whole "woo America" and "woo Confederacy" is so contradictory he's just confused.
 
Christie's approval rating is 30% in his home state. LOL

Jindal is about the same.

I don't understand Jindal entering the race unless there's some payday in it down the line. I mean, nobody likes him, he's polling under 1%. Not only does he have zero shot at the Presidency or VP, he has no chance to even have an effect on the race.

He's completely worthless in the GOP right now.

At least Christie could maaaaaaaybe say people outside of NJ might still kind of take a look at him.

but lol at the non-factors in this field.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Jindal is about the same.

I don't understand Jindal entering the race unless there's some payday in it down the line. I mean, nobody likes him, he's polling under 1%. Not only does he have zero shot at the Presidency or VP, he has no chance to even have an effect on the race.

He's completely worthless in the GOP right now.

At least Christie could maaaaaaaybe say people outside of NJ might still kind of take a look at him.

but lol at the non-factors in this field.

Is Jindal a paid Fox News contributor? Cause if he isn't, then that's why he's doing it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom