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PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On

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She'll be back, again.

My bet is they want her out during primary season so she doesn't support whoever turns out to be this round's Michelle Bachmann and they'll bring her back to bash Hillary in the general. Since, because she's a woman, her criticism can't be construed as sexist /eyeroll.
 
Jindal is about the same.

I don't understand Jindal entering the race unless there's some payday in it down the line. I mean, nobody likes him, he's polling under 1%. Not only does he have zero shot at the Presidency or VP, he has no chance to even have an effect on the race.

He's completely worthless in the GOP right now.

At least Christie could maaaaaaaybe say people outside of NJ might still kind of take a look at him.

but lol at the non-factors in this field.

He better fucking run. If he did all this Norquist pandering, globetrotting, and other bullshit only to not run, I'll be pisssed.
 

pigeon

Banned
I have to say, if you asked me just two weeks ago when Southern states would stop flying the Confederate flag, I probably would have been off by about half a century.

This is a pretty huge shift in American race relations.
 
I have to say, if you asked me just two weeks ago when Southern states would stop flying the Confederate flag, I probably would have been off by about half a century.

This is a pretty huge shift in American race relations.

It's really amazing when I think about living in SC during the last debate in 2000. I though that traitor's hankie would never come down. I might even start saying SC instead of PA when people ask me where I'm from!

Although it's a real shame that Lee Bright is gonna get national exposure. I hoped news of his idiocy would never escape the Palmetto State.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
My bet is they want her out during primary season so she doesn't support whoever turns out to be this round's Michelle Bachmann and they'll bring her back to bash Hillary in the general. Since, because she's a woman, her criticism can't be construed as sexist /eyeroll.

Pretty much.
 
I have to say, if you asked me just two weeks ago when Southern states would stop flying the Confederate flag, I probably would have been off by about half a century.

This is a pretty huge shift in American race relations.

Is it, truly? If anything it seems to further reinforce Obama's recent comments. Not saying nigger out loud, not flying the Confederate Flag, etc don't really demonstrate that someone or something isn't racist.

If anything, this incident is being used to suggest racism is an isolated incident now.
 
This breathing room will give the various players – states, Congress, the Obama Administration, insurance carriers, hospitals and other providers – time to consider next steps; and it will allow for a transition to the next stage without an abrupt change in the insurance status of those currently receiving subsidies but whose subsidies are not legally appropriate under a proper interpretation of the ACA.
*Eye roll*

I hope nobody pretends like a ruling for the plaintiffs justifies the absurdity of this case.
 

Trouble

Banned
Err...

CISLSd5WsAElYpB.png

There goes any chance of him being picked for VP.
 
Is it, truly? If anything it seems to further reinforce Obama's recent comments. Not saying nigger out loud, not flying the Confederate Flag, etc don't really demonstrate that someone or something isn't racist.

If anything, this incident is being used to suggest racism is an isolated incident now.

I'm with PD on this. Nobody is changing anything but the way in which you disguise your racist views. Its like the old southern strategy quote
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
*Eye roll*

I hope nobody pretends like a ruling for the plaintiffs justifies the absurdity of this case.

You'll have to forgive him for disagreeing with you.

Frankly, I thought the Internet was beyond the stage where appending "IMO" to every clear expression of opinion was necessary to convey the nature of the expression.
 
Is it, truly? If anything it seems to further reinforce Obama's recent comments. Not saying nigger out loud, not flying the Confederate Flag, etc don't really demonstrate that someone or something isn't racist.

If anything, this incident is being used to suggest racism is an isolated incident now.

I'm with PD on this. Nobody is changing anything but the way in which you disguise your racist views. Its like the old southern strategy quote

I think taking steps to respect the feelings of a group you historically haven't is progress. I wouldn't say it solved racism or anything by any means.
 
I'm a 1st generation born American, though my mom grew up here. But my dad didn't and came near his 30s. He's super well-knowledged about world history but actually knows little about American history from about 1800-WWI. We all live in Cali.

He is completely perplexed by the South's view of the Confederacy. He's all "I don't understand...they celebrate a side that lost? A side that fought to keep black slaves? A side that tried to become not America? Explain this to me, I don't get it."

He understands that prejudice remains, he understands how blacks have been to this day institutionally fucked, etc, but this one thing he can't wrap his head around. The whole "woo America" and "woo Confederacy" is so contradictory he's just confused.

Its not contradictory. The pride in the confederacy is pride in white supremacy. The two are combined because the rest of America hasn't taken such a firm stance in support of freedom and equality and in many respects acquiesced to the south's desire and white supremacy program. The south is perhapse the most prominent power in US politics today so they go hand and hand.

And anything that doesn't align with their view is anti or un american
 
Its not contradictory. The pride in the confederacy is pride in white supremacy. The two are combined because the rest of America hasn't taken such a firm stance in support of freedom and equality and in many respects acquiesced to the south's desire and white supremacy program. The south is perhapse the most prominent power in US politics today so they go hand and hand.

And anything that doesn't align with their view is anti or un american

I get that, but from an outsider's viewpoint, it's weird because the Confederacy was a Rogue state. So the people are basically saying "Wooo anti-America" and "wooo America" at the same time.

I've had to try to explain to him the whole thing. My point was that to an outsider, it's fucking bizarre.

By outsider, I mean someone who came to America as an adult.
 

pigeon

Banned
Is it, truly? If anything it seems to further reinforce Obama's recent comments. Not saying nigger out loud, not flying the Confederate Flag, etc don't really demonstrate that someone or something isn't racist.

If anything, this incident is being used to suggest racism is an isolated incident now.

I'm not saying racism is over. But two years ago GOP leaders led a man with a Confederate flag to wave it outside the White House. For them to today call for South Carolina to remove their flag -- in response to public pressure -- represents a big recalculation on the part of the Republican party. There's a reason it's called the Southern strategy!
 

Ecotic

Member
I feel like Sherman's tactics actually helped keep racia divisions and "confederate spirit" or whatever you want to call it alive after the war. All these poor white people saw former slaves getting land grants while all their farms were torched and salted. Certainly didn't help mend any fences.

As a native Georgian I can attest Sherman's march is easily the greatest lasting sore spot for everyone here. It's because Gone With the Wind has immortalized the burning of Atlanta for 80 years and it's shown to every kid growing up here 10 times before he's left high school. There's no historical homes or sites in Atlanta to visit and be proud of like there is in say, Philadelphia, and people are still raw about it. If by 'finish the job' it means having burned Savannah, then I imagine sore feelings would be even worse today. Savannah has a huge tourism industry in the city (12+ million visitors a year) where people come from all over to ride the horse carriage tours to see the historical sites. My hometown is half an hour away from Savannah and I used to work in downtown Savannah and it hurts just thinking if those sites didn't exist.

In WWII Kyoto was spared from being bombed because American planners said that we'd need Japan after the war and they'd never forgive if that historical city was destroyed. That was a good call. If Atlanta had been spared I think it would have gone a long way to helping salve relations after the war.
 
You'll have to forgive him for disagreeing with you.

Frankly, I thought the Internet was beyond the stage where appending "IMO" to every clear expression of opinion was necessary to convey the nature of the expression.

The opinion in King is wrong. Its factually wrong but I'm not going to go over that again that. There is no universe where his is the "proper interpritation."
 

pigeon

Banned
Into July? I thought this was the Supreme Court, dammit.

I better pre-plan my tweets for any rulings beforehand. Gotta make sure my #brand is #strong

👨🏽🔫

On an unrelated note, Ramesh Ponnuru and Jonathan Bernstein have some articles about how the GOP is likely to pass a clean fix to Obamacare subsidies in the event of an obvious and not at all absurd SCOTUS opinion striking them down.

bloomberg view said:
A key portion of President Barack Obama's health-care policy could fall at the U.S. Supreme Court this week. Just when Republicans are close to achieving one of their top goals, however, the party is in disarray. As a result, I'd bet that Obamacare is going to survive this challenge -- whatever the court decides -- pretty much unscathed....

Republicans should have been prepared to respond. Ideally, they'd be ready to advance a bill that would ensure that Obamacare's regulations -- such as its required package of essential benefits -- no longer apply in the affected states while offering tax credits to people who could lose their insurance and who lack access to employer coverage. Then Congress would pass the bill and Obama would sign it.

But after months of observing and talking to Republicans, I don't expect this to happen. Instead, I expect Obama to get most of what he wants. My guess is that if the court strikes down the subsidies, Congress will extend them pretty much as is.

To understand why, consider the Republican Party's internal dynamics on this issue. Its members can be roughly divided into three groups.

Group 1, which includes a few senators and several dozen representatives, is unwilling under any circumstances to support giving subsidies to people who have gotten coverage through Obamacare exchanges...

Group 3 is desperate to avoid that outcome. (Yes, I know I skipped group 2; bear with me.) They'd like to repeal and replace Obamacare, too, but they fear sending Obama anything he'd veto because they think he'd win the political fight over which party deserved blame for an impasse. In practice, then, they just want to extend the subsidies. This group includes a lot of senators and a few members of the House.

Group 2 is a swing vote. They think Republicans should be on record favoring subsidies to protect people who relied on Obamacare, but they want to put conditions on those subsidies. They're open, for example, to letting the affected states out of Obamacare's regulations even if Obama objects -- and they're willing to fight the political battle if there's a filibuster or veto. (I'm with this group.)

Republicans won't be able to muster a majority of the House for Group 1's preference: Too many Congress members want to protect people from losing their insurance, or at least don't want to be blamed if they do. Group 2's preference won't get a majority either: Group 1 won't vote for it because it keeps the subsidies, and Democrats won't vote for it because it weakens Obamacare.

In the end, I predict that Republican leaders will end up going with Group 3's favored extension of the subsidies with little in the way of change to the Affordable Care Act....

Passing legislation to this effect will require Democratic votes, and Democrats will be able to extract concessions as a result -- for example, on the law's requirements that larger employers must offer coverage and that individuals must be insured. Those are relatively unpopular features of Obamacare, and they'll be severely weakened by a decision invalidating subsidies. Congress could in theory offer subsidies without resurrecting those mandates. But empowered Democrats may well insist that the mandates return in full force. If they do, the legislation will probably have to pass with mostly Democratic votes.

This scenario involves Democrats getting their way even though Republicans have majorities in both chambers, and even though they won those majorities partly by opposing Obamacare. Conservatives around the country will feel betrayed.

But I'll further predict that Republican leaders won't face any serious mutiny. Group 3 will be behind them. So will most of Group 2. And many of those who ultimately don't vote for the subsidy extension will be grateful that others did. (Some in Group 1 are more eager to avoid voting for anything that smacks of complicity in Obamacare than they are to see Obamacare actually weakened.)

This forecast isn't that far-fetched: The same basic dynamic governed Republican behavior during the fiscal cliff debate in late 2012 and the government shutdown of 2013. If I'm right this time around, the best outcome remaining for Republicans will be to extend the subsidies only through the middle of 2017. In that case they could say that a new Republican president will be able to revisit the Affordable Care Act -- and that maybe, by then, they'll have their act together.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-06-24/republicans-will-save-obamacare

Jonathan Bernstein talked a little about this last week as well.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-05-11/how-the-obamacare-subsidies-battle-could-play-out

Basically, you know how people talk about entitlements being the third rail of politics because it involves subsidies people are currently receiving and so changing them would actively take money away from people? Obamacare is electrified now, and no matter what Ted Cruz might say, if it comes down to Obama vs Congress on restoring people's subsidies, the public will side with Obama, because Obama has been pretty clear that he wants to give people subsidies.

The GOP could get around this by presenting a substantive health care plan, but unfortunately the GOP is no longer capable of presenting substantive policy plans. So it's politically safer for the GOP Congress to kick the can down the road.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Yeah, I do wonder if this ends like the shut down. I don't think Republicans have as many cards as they think and if the public turns against them like they did during that debate, they could loose their ability to try to repeal some of their least favorite parts of the ACA.
 
On an unrelated note, Ramesh Ponnuru and Jonathan Bernstein have some articles about how the GOP is likely to pass a clean fix to Obamacare subsidies in the event of an obvious and not at all absurd SCOTUS opinion striking them down.



http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-06-24/republicans-will-save-obamacare

Jonathan Bernstein talked a little about this last week as well.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-05-11/how-the-obamacare-subsidies-battle-could-play-out

Basically, you know how people talk about entitlements being the third rail of politics because it involves subsidies people are currently receiving and so changing them would actively take money away from people? Obamacare is electrified now, and no matter what Ted Cruz might say, if it comes down to Obama vs Congress on restoring people's subsidies, the public will side with Obama, because Obama has been pretty clear that he wants to give people subsidies.

The GOP could get around this by presenting a substantive health care plan, but unfortunately the GOP is no longer capable of presenting substantive policy plans. So it's politically safer for the GOP Congress to kick the can down the road.

I think there's two outcomes possible.

1. The outcome suggested above.

2. nothing happens. literally nothing. Just a bunch of arguing. Just like the unemployment benefits extension.

I actually think #2 has a very good chance at happening.
 

Crisco

Banned
The only "card" the GOP has is that the law as a whole is still viewed negatively by a majority of Americans. Unfortunately for them, a ruling for the plaintiffs will get rid of a part of the law that is popular, while leaving the rest of it intact. Without any sort of plan or replacement waiting in the wings, they are basically fucked when it comes to public.opinion on this.

In any case, the government will win, John Roberts isn't falling on that sword. Not for a legal argument that wouldn't hold up in grade school debate club.
 
The only "card" the GOP has is that the law as a whole is still viewed negatively by a majority of Americans. Unfortunately for them, a ruling for the plaintiffs will get rid of a part of the law that is popular, while leaving the rest of it intact. Without any sort of plan or replacement waiting in the wings, they are basically fucked when it comes to public opinion on this.


yeah, but do they care? Also, the law is above water now, according to some polling.

views-of-the-health-care-law.jpg


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-obamacare-and-the-supreme-court/
 
The only "card" the GOP has is that the law as a whole is still viewed negatively by a majority of Americans. Unfortunately for them, a ruling for the plaintiffs will get rid of a part of the law that is popular, while leaving the rest of it intact. Without any sort of plan or replacement waiting in the wings, they are basically fucked when it comes to public.opinion on this.
Um no. If you've seen how GOP operated for the past 2 decades, you will know that if SC strikes down the subsidies, they will blame Obama for creating a broken law and we need to get rid of it all. The public will buy it.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I know that the chances are low, but still can't sleep. So I'm giggling at SCOTUSblog's latest round of responses to folks who think they're the official SCOTUS twitter account.
(that, and we have a new akita puppy who thinks nighttime = playtime)

Still wondering what info would lead SCOTUSblog to tweet so confidently on these cases' timings..
 

pigeon

Banned
I know that the chances are low, but still can't sleep. So I'm giggling at SCOTUSblog's latest round of responses to folks who think they're the official SCOTUS twitter account.
(that, and we have a new akita puppy who thinks nighttime = playtime)

Still wondering what info would lead SCOTUSblog to tweet so confidently on these cases' timings..

I didn't see the tweets you're referring to, but Washington Monthly had a tidbit.

This Friday will be the anniversary of Lawrence v Kansas, written by Kennedy, and also the anniversary of US v Windsor, also written by Kennedy.

Unusually, SCOTUS added an opinion day this Friday!

It's probably for striking down Obamacare.
 

Diablos

Member
9-0 Burwell, Roberts apologizes for being an asshole and retroactively expands Medicaid in all 50 states. Ginsburg, Scalia and Thomas step down on Monday allowing Obama to solidify the court as leftward for at least two decades to come.

...

In all honesty this decision is gonna be 5-4 King or 6-3 Burwell with Kennedy and Roberts letting common sense prevail.
 
I wonder how they're going to rule in the Arizona redistricting case. I really hope they don't bust non-partisan redistricting commissions. If anything, all states should use them.
 

T'Zariah

Banned
9-0 Burwell, Roberts apologizes for being an asshole and retroactively expands Medicaid in all 50 states. Ginsburg, Scalia and Thomas step down on Monday allowing Obama to solidify the court as leftward for at least two decades to come.

...

In all honesty this decision is gonna be 5-4 King or 6-3 Burwell with Kennedy and Roberts letting common sense prevail.

It'd be like Sony's E3 conference come to life!

:lol
 
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