NYCmetsfan
Banned
While I deplore trumps comments I still recoil at the saintification of military service in US politics. Especially when its used to stifle dissent (see the defense of McCain vs Kerry's swiftboating in 2004)
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PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On
- Thread starter Aaron Strife
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No she didn't. I watched it live. She, O'Malley, and Sanders all did well. Chafee and Web were boring and low energy. O'Malley gave a good performance but had a somewhat poorly written speech, Clinton got better as she went, and Bernie was full on Bernie the whole time.Could just be spin but apparently Hillary bombed at the Iowa Hall Of Fame dinner, whereas O'Malley and Sanders fired up the crowd.
Retromelon
Member
Do you find it hard to argue with someone from a military background? Because people will be like "who are you to disagree? Thats a veteran."While I deplore trumps comments I still recoil at the saintification of military service in US politics.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Do you find it hard to argue with someone from a military background? Because people will be like "who are you to disagree? Thats a veteran."
I don't understand what your saying
Retromelon
Member
Because sometimes ive been in that position but i just shut my mouth because i feel like there would be a backlash if i disagreed/argued with a veteran about something
RustyNails
Member
Why are you guys so mad at that line, when it's not coming from someone who isn't belittling your cause?
O Malley was just trying to create a nice soundbite for his campaign, but I think the phrase "White lives matter" is a slightly pig-headed adventure in whataboutism that distracts from the real problems. White lives always mattered, still matter and will continue to matter. Black lives never really had that luxury in America. Blacks endured unspeakable injustices in this country and continue to face systemic discrimination in society, most notably in the criminal justice system. The expression "black lives matter" is not an attempt to downplay the sanctity of life for other races. Rather it's an attempt to bring people's attention to the fact that black lives matter just as much as white lives.
RastaMentality
Banned
Sanders to protesters: "Black lives of course matter, and I have spent 50 years fighting for civil rights and dignity." #NN15
Sanders interrupted again as he says fair economics will correct injustice: "Public college doesn't stop police brutality!" #NN15
Asked what he's passed to help black people, Sanders starts talking about Affordable Care Act. Protester: "We can't afford that!" #NN15
https://vine.co/v/er3DgLpaa36
Holy shit lol.
ok guys ive made my bernie v bush map plz like fav and subscribe
More seriously though, are there any specific claims about what Sanders hasn't done enough of, or is it mostly just people unfamiliar with him?
Edit: ok, answered above
More seriously though, are there any specific claims about what Sanders hasn't done enough of, or is it mostly just people unfamiliar with him?
Edit: ok, answered above
Holy shit lol.
Bernie's problem is going to be that he can't just talk economics, he needs to throw in more stuff about police reform.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Bernie's problem is going to be that he can't just talk economics, he needs to throw in more stuff about police reform.
His problem is that talking the talk is more important than walking the walk, at least for a lot of modern "activists." Basically:
Clearly Bernie hasn't been using the hashatag #blacklivesmatter enough.
Retromelon
Member
Very plausible map i like it
Poodlestrike
Banned
ok guys ive made my bernie v bush map plz like fav and subscribe
More seriously though, are there any specific claims about what Sanders hasn't done enough of, or is it mostly just people unfamiliar with him?
Edit: ok, answered above
I don't think electoral college delegates can declare for undecided
Though they should be able to.
"And the great state of Colorado votes for... fuck, I don't know, I can't read this shit. Put us up for whoever."
His problem is that talking the talk is more important than walking the walk, at least for a lot of modern "activists." Basically:
He's not as well known as Hilary, he needs to get his stuff out there. If he's fought for criminal justice reform then he should have said so when asked.
Poodlestrike
Banned
He's not as well known as Hilary, he needs to get his stuff out there. If he's fought for criminal justice reform then he should have said so when asked.
Like I said: talking the talk vs. walking the walk. It's understandable that a candidate should have to work to get their positions and message out to the general population, but you'd think people fighting for a cause would put in a little research. All about posturing with some people.
PhoenixDark
Banned
O Malley was just trying to create a nice soundbite for his campaign, but I think the phrase "White lives matter" is a slightly pig-headed adventure in whataboutism that distracts from the real problems. White lives always mattered, still matter and will continue to matter. Black lives never really had that luxury in America. Blacks endured unspeakable injustices in this country and continue to face systemic discrimination in society, most notably in the criminal justice system. The expression "black lives matter" is not an attempt to downplay the sanctity of life for other races. Rather it's an attempt to bring people's attention to the fact that black lives matter just as much as white lives.
I agree with much of this, yet am still baffled at the outrage over "all lives matter." Especially in a time when class is becoming the defining issue in this country. I'm black and have to say I'm disappointed by the aimless rage and lack of logic displayed by many of these activists. Good luck achieving anything, bros.
Like I said: talking the talk vs. walking the walk. It's understandable that a candidate should have to work to get their positions and message out to the general population, but you'd think people fighting for a cause would put in a little research. All about posturing with some people.
It's a campaign, it's all about telling people what you've done for them and what you're going to do! Bernie needs to talk more than just economics if he wants to win, that's just how it is. Just like how Hilary needs to talk more than foreign policy. You have to put forward an entire platform, not just part of one.
Unless we have a crisis the month before the election the campaign will be about the economy as it should be.
When are the Democratic debates going to start? Trump and Bush will be fun but I would like a dose of substance too
I'm not saying the election isn't about the economy, but that candidates also need to talk about more than just that.
Leeroy3101
Banned
Bernie's ethos far outshines corporate Clinton. It's a shame he hasn't been able to communicate that, yet.
Unless we have a crisis the month before the election the campaign will be about the economy as it should be.
When are the Democratic debates going to start? Trump and Bush will be fun but I would like a dose of substance too
According to this, August or September will have the first, but the dates are unannounced so far.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Unless we have a crisis the month before the election the campaign will be about the economy as it should be.
When are the Democratic debates going to start? Trump and Bush will be fun but I would like a dose of substance too
Unless the economy is good enough to the point that people forget about it and make it about the roving gangs of cowardly ISIS goons shooting unarmed military members.
Think about it.
Retromelon
Member
Economy aside, that does sound like an issue that should be addressed
Asked what he's passed to help black people, Sanders starts talking about Affordable Care Act. Protester: "We can't afford that!" #NN15
What kind of leftist says this? Sounds like a Koch/Freedomworks plant.
BertramCooper
Banned
Christ, another Bernie thread.
Must.
Not.
Post.
Even.
Though.
Erasure.
Is.
Spouting.
More.
Nonsense.
Must.
Not.
Post.
Even.
Though.
Erasure.
Is.
Spouting.
More.
Nonsense.
Bernie fanboys are nuts. They are unbearable to deal with.Christ, another Bernie thread.
Must.
Not.
Post.
Even.
Though.
Erasure.
Is.
Spouting.
More.
Nonsense.
I have way too many flashbacks to seeing posts about how big Ron Paul rallies are and how everyone will support him once he got his message out there.
They don't give a shit about trying to take down Bernie. They'd love to have Bernie be the nominee. Minority opposition of Bernie is very real, and polling backs it up.What kind of leftist says this? Sounds like a Koch/Freedomworks plant.
Coriolanus
Banned
Y'all bitch about sanders support with almost as much vitriol as them peeps defend him. It's quite baffling.
Christ, another Bernie thread.
Must.
Not.
Post.
Even.
Though.
Erasure.
Is.
Spouting.
More.
Nonsense.
and it is turning into another Hillary Vs Sanders debate lol.
PoliGAF isn't the place to post bizarre fantasy Bernie electoral college insanity. This isn't Reddit. We are smarter than to entertain that level of nonsense. The backlash to doing that was obvious. It's just trolling at that point.Y'all bitch about sanders support with almost as much vitriol as them peeps defend him. It's quite baffling.
BertramCooper
Banned
Y'all bitch about sanders support with almost as much vitriol as them peeps defend him. It's quite baffling.
The complete lack of perspective is frustrating.
Idealism is admirable; blind idealism is obnoxious.
Coriolanus
Banned
PoliGAF isn't the place to post bizarre fantasy Bernie electoral college insanity. This isn't Reddit. We are smarter than to entertain that level of nonsense.
The complete lack of perspective is frustrating.
Idealism is admirable; blind idealism is obnoxious.
Then educate instead of hostilize. Like it or not, those people are closer to your side than to the republicans, and those idealists are the same kinda fools that are more likely to get out of their asses on midterms. Wanking to your own intelligence will solve nothing. They're a resource, and it is up to you to find the best way to employ them.
Telling them that they idiots because a man dares to dream? Fat lot of good that does.
It's one thing to support the guy and like him. There is a ton to like. He is a great senator. But quite another to declare he is going to win and start predicting what states he will win in the general.The complete lack of perspective is frustrating.
Idealism is admirable; blind idealism is obnoxious.
When posting stuff to such an extreme degree of impossibility there is no way anyone will be able to reason with you or discuss anything in a logical manner.
I can declare there to be an alien invasion the week before the election and start making my electoral college map based on this, but it doesn't mean it makes any sense to do that nor would it advance any discussion since everyone else knows it is not something realistic to even begin to consider or discuss.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Or a purity trollWhat kind of leftist says this? Sounds like a Koch/Freedomworks plant.
They don't give a shit about trying to take down Bernie. They'd love to have Bernie be the nominee. Minority opposition of Bernie is very real, and polling backs it up.
Huh?
Poodlestrike
Banned
Then educate instead of hostilize. Like it or not, those people are closer to your side than to the republicans, and those idealists are the same kinda fools that are more likely to get out of their asses on midterms. Wanking to your own intelligence will solve nothing. They're a resource, and it is up to you to find the best way to employ them.
Telling them that they idiots because a man dares to dream? Fat lot of good that does.
Pretty much this. I think the Bernie guys are off-base myself, but ramping up the hostility just serves to further solidify their positions. Nothing does that so well as Defending the Cause.
BertramCooper
Banned
Then educate instead of hostilize. Like it or not, those people are closer to your side than to the republicans, and those idealists are the same kinda fools that are more likely to get out of their asses on midterms. Wanking to your own intelligence will solve nothing. They're a resource, and it is up to you to find the best way to employ them.
Telling them that they idiots because a man dares to dream? Fat lot of good that does.
Have you missed the dozens and dozens of posts where we've tried to "educate" people like Erasure? Only for them to repeatedly ignore pretty much everything we're trying to get across?
Ultimately the overwhelming majority of these folks will vote for Hillary. But many of these Bernie supporters are getting flat-out hostile in their support of him, insinuating (or flat-out saying) that anyone who supports Hillary supports corruption and the status quo. So sorry, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince that type of people of anything. It won't accomplish anything.
Trying to dissuade Bernie supporters with the 'he can't win' argument is pointless. Grossly overestimating the chances of a cause you support becoming a reality is a pretty basic, err, 'feature' of human psychology. We've probably all been there.
And it's not just that we can't convince them otherwise, I also think we shouldn't. I think most of us agree that Bernie deserves some level of support, after all. It's good for the party and the country.
And it's not just that we can't convince them otherwise, I also think we shouldn't. I think most of us agree that Bernie deserves some level of support, after all. It's good for the party and the country.
Then educate instead of hostilize. Like it or not, those people are closer to your side than to the republicans, and those idealists are the same kinda fools that are more likely to get out of their asses on midterms. Wanking to your own intelligence will solve nothing. They're a resource, and it is up to you to find the best way to employ them.
Telling them that they idiots because a man dares to dream? Fat lot of good that does.
Educating them would be hard.
ex: I don't like big money as much as they don't but I also realize it is necessary to win not just for campaign ads but for salaries, infrastructure, GOTV etc. It is nice to not take SuperPAC money but I realize that not doing so does more damage to the cause of ultimately taking the "big" money out.
A lot of them miss the logistics of it all behind some of their wishes and statements. Their is no one solution to it all.
Starting to think a meeting of the minds was reached at Trump Tower this week.
And I'm not doing Bernie threads anymore. He's a fantastic man and I'd enthusiastically vote for him, but I'd immediately exit the voting booth to go home and drown in a bottle as returns come in. And I don't drink.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/donald-trump-john-mccain-war-hero-ted-cruz/index.htmlCruz declines to denounce Trump's McCain comments
For his part, Cruz told reporters he considers McCain "a friend" whom he respects and admires.
"Not only did he sign up to defend our nation, putting his life in harm's way, but when he was a POW, he was imprisoned, tortured, and most incredibly, he was offered the opportunity for early release, he was offered the opportunity to go home, and he turned it down because he believed it would be dishonorable to accept that."
But he declined to speak ill of his presidential rival...
"You know I recognize that folks in the press love to see Republican-on-Republican violence, and so you want me to say something bad about Donald Trump, or bad about John McCain or bad about anyone else," he said. "I'm not going to do it."
And I'm not doing Bernie threads anymore. He's a fantastic man and I'd enthusiastically vote for him, but I'd immediately exit the voting booth to go home and drown in a bottle as returns come in. And I don't drink.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Cruz positioning himself to pick up Trump's supporters once the trainwreck happens.
BertramCooper
Banned
Cruz positioning himself to pick up Trump's supporters once the trainwreck happens.
Pretty much.
Then educate instead of hostilize. Like it or not, those people are closer to your side than to the republicans, and those idealists are the same kinda fools that are more likely to get out of their asses on midterms. Wanking to your own intelligence will solve nothing. They're a resource, and it is up to you to find the best way to employ them.
Telling them that they idiots because a man dares to dream? Fat lot of good that does.
For the record, they're definitely not the people that are more likely to vote in midterms. They're specifically the people who won't vote in midterms because there's nothing idealistic about turning out to support a bunch of Congresspeople (you know Congresspeople are all crooks, that's why we need an outsider) who spent the last two years compromising instead of using the President's mandate to enact the liberal policies the country needs. I know because I used to be one.
That said, I basically agree that the intense condescension PoliGAF has towards Sanders supporters is not particularly useful. (I am trying to restrict myself to only responding to posts that are themselves not useful.) There are valid reasons to want Sanders to be president. In fact, a lot of them are the same reasons I want Hillary to be president! It's really just a question of winning and incremental vs revolutionary change.
Like I said a while back, Sanders will have his chance. If he can win Iowa and New Hampshire, I'll happily support him as the Democratic candidate. That would convince me that the culture is changing faster than I think it is.
I hope (and expect) that a lot of Sanders supporters will be able to take the same attitude if Hillary sweeps them and clinches the nomination. Anybody who supports Sanders should see immediately that Hillary's still better than any GOP candidate. If they don't, that's a problem.
Hey look guys, the Mitt Bot made a funnie:
"The difference between John McCain and Donald Trump: Trump shot himself down."
Retromelon
Member
Tsss home run romney home run
Leeroy3101
Banned
This is what I don't understand with the "just give up on Bernie and support Hillary" crowd; doesn't her calculated support for issues such as police brutality, LGBT issues, the amount of funding she receives from large giant banks, lack of actual plans to fix our social mobility problem, using super PAC money, and such other issues bug most of you?
I totally get the SCOTUS nom issue, but I feel like I'm selling out my vote to corporate America based on social issues for supporting a Hillary campaign.
Bernie's done practically everything that wasn't "safe" for a candidate to do. What's an unpopular stance that Hillary took before it was popular to take? Clinton seems like another corporate candidate who serves the upper echelon rather than the majority of America.
Bernie's big issue is capturing the minority and lady vote.
I totally get the SCOTUS nom issue, but I feel like I'm selling out my vote to corporate America based on social issues for supporting a Hillary campaign.
Bernie's done practically everything that wasn't "safe" for a candidate to do. What's an unpopular stance that Hillary took before it was popular to take? Clinton seems like another corporate candidate who serves the upper echelon rather than the majority of America.
Bernie's big issue is capturing the minority and lady vote.
Retromelon
Member
Too many people blind to the fact that colonel sanders is the TRUTH and gatekeeping for shillaryThis is what I don't understand with the "just give up on Bernie and support Hillary" crowd; doesn't her calculated support for issues such as police brutality, LGBT issues, the amount of funding she receives from large giant banks, lack of actual plans to fix our social mobility problem, using super PAC money, and such other issues bug most of you?
I totally get the SCOTUS nom issue, but I feel like I'm selling out my vote to corporate America based on social issues for supporting a Hillary campaign.
Bernie's done practically everything that wasn't "safe" for a candidate to do. What's an unpopular stance that Hillary took before it was popular to take? Clinton seems like another corporate candidate who serves the upper echelon rather than the majority of America.
Bernie's big issue is capturing the minority and lady vote.
callhitman
Member
When is first republican debate. It's must see tv.
When is first republican debate. It's must see tv.
August 6. Not too long to wait now.
However, if we followed the schedule last time around, we should have already had a couple debates by now (would have started in May).
Fucking RNC.
Tsss home run romney home run
Good one, chip.
Retromelon
Member
Tsis, figgy, we know what your favorite fruit is!!!Good one, chip.
Im good at this
Little wordplay humouah folks
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