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PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On

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Nobody votes for a Presidential candidate on the strength of their running mate.

Pretty much this. Hillary should pick someone that she's comfortable with and can take some responsibilities off her in office. If that's Kaine, great but I don't think Castro is ready to be one heartbeat away from the Presidency.
 
I would have voted for lbj in 64 solely for the fact that hubert humphrey, one of the noblest american politicians that ever lived, was his running mate
 

ivysaur12

Banned
If anyone would reject the opportunity it's Brown. I don't see him tying himself to the inevitable corporatist/crony administration Hillary will no doubt institute.

Besides I think Hillary needs someone younger who excites the base. Brown doesn't fit that category.

He absolutely would excite the base once he started stumping, the same way Bernie has. And Bernie is older than Sherrod

You're adding more qualifications on top of your initial list. He's a progressive, likeable swing-state Democrat who's not afraid to throw punches at policies he disagrees with. More, he's from a Midwestern state, which could help shore up Iowa and Wisconsin. He's a fantastic match for Hillary.
 
I remember some talk about how the SC ruling in favor of gay marriage would be the best thing to happen to republicans, as it would take the issue off the table. Nope. Chalk it up as another issue for moderate-ish candidates to get crucified over.

The debates are going to be utterly insane, and I can't possibly see how a Bush type "moderate" can break through in this climate. The base wants blood.
 

Wilsongt

Member
I remember some talk about how the SC ruling in favor of gay marriage would be the best thing to happen to republicans, as it would take the issue off the table. Nope. Chalk it up as another issue for moderate-ish candidates to get crucified over.

The debates are going to be utterly insane, and I can't possibly see how a Bush type "moderate" can break through in this climate. The base wants blood.

There isn't enough corn in the world to pop for the coming debates.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I remember some talk about how the SC ruling in favor of gay marriage would be the best thing to happen to republicans, as it would take the issue off the table. Nope. Chalk it up as another issue for moderate-ish candidates to get crucified over.

The debates are going to be utterly insane, and I can't possibly see how a Bush type "moderate" can break through in this climate. The base wants blood.

How much is "the base?" This is what I've always wondered. I keep hearing this, but I don't think everyone who votes in the primaries are insane right-wing nuts. I mean, Romney got through.

I think this board vastly overestimates how many people make up this 'base.' I think we have a VERY vocal minority of republican voters.
 
Everyone is so obsessed with VA when the real action will be in OH and FL. They still matter and as the last election showed the earliest to call. If Hillary is losing OH and FL then VA is probably at waters edge.
Um I would say this is quite the opposite.

The media fetishizes Florida and Ohio due to them being big swing states that would have flipped the presidency to Gore and Kerry, respectively. However Obama didn't need them either time, even though he won anyway.

Colorado and Virginia are far more crucial to Democrats in a path to 270.

I remember some talk about how the SC ruling in favor of gay marriage would be the best thing to happen to republicans, as it would take the issue off the table. Nope. Chalk it up as another issue for moderate-ish candidates to get crucified over.

The debates are going to be utterly insane, and I can't possibly see how a Bush type "moderate" can break through in this climate. The base wants blood.
Yeah I never bought this either. What the behind-the-scenes GOP analysts want and what their base wants rarely match up. Did they expect to just go "Welp, law of the land!" and everyone would be okay with it? Because that clearly didn't happen with Obamacare or abortion.
 
1000% no. Nothing says past more than that. He also has the socialist baggage.

He asked who could give her the ethical cred. I gave the answer. Do you disagree that, if there is one thing where sanders can easily tower above her, it is in ethics?
I ain't considering anything but ethics, mind.

Maybe Hillary should ditch trying to balance the ticket with someone who has youth and charisma and go for a pick reinforcing her strength. Pick an older, experienced person and run as the grown-up ticket. Especially if Republicans pick someone like Walker who is easily characterized as kind of dangerous.

Y'mean like Bill Clinton?
 
Yeah I never bought this either. What the behind-the-scenes GOP analysts want and what their base wants rarely match up. Did they expect to just go "Welp, law of the land!" and everyone would be okay with it? Because that clearly didn't happen with Obamacare or abortion.

Indeed. To make matters worse, two of the first three presidential contests are in states with very conservative republicans. Bush might not finish in the top 3 in Iowa, and he sure as hell won't win SC. Both contests will revolve around a variety of wedge issues, and just watch how ugly SC's primary will get as Walker and others bring up states rights in relation to the Confederate flag.
 

HylianTom

Banned
There isn't enough corn in the world to pop for the coming debates.

Since the debate is on a Friday night, I've already filed for that Friday off. Might as well make it a three-day weekend and stay up late on Thursday night, giggling at the reactions.

How much is "the base?" This is what I've always wondered. I keep hearing this, but I don't think everyone who votes in the primaries are insane right-wing nuts. I mean, Romney got through.

I think this board vastly overestimates how many people make up this 'base.' I think we have a VERY vocal minority of republican voters.

If forced to guess what percentage is severely conservative, I'd guess 25-30%. But defining and measuring is so damn problematic. You could measure by specific issues, self-description..
(this kind of variation is one thing that I loved/hated about methodology, ha!)

Aside from the numbers, here's a big related problem: there are enough elected officials from this segment of the base who are in elected positions across the country - places that give them enough power to cause issues for the GOP's national branding/outreach efforts.

Um I would say this is quite the opposite.

The media fetishizes Florida and Ohio due to them being big swing states that would have flipped the presidency to Gore and Kerry, respectively. However Obama didn't need them either time, even though he won anyway.

Colorado and Virginia are far more crucial to Democrats in a path to 270.

Part of me would laugh like a loon if she won with the COVA route. Imagine a bunch of angry/confused people pointing at the big electoral prizes going red on the map while she's giving her comfortable victory speech. After months of the media going "OHIO-FLORIDA-OHIO-FLORIDA.." - and then this? Comedy gold!
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Part of me would laugh like a loon if she won with the COVA route. Imagine a bunch of angry/confused people pointing at the big electoral prizes going red on the map while she's giving her comfortable victory speech. After months of the media going "OHIO-FLORIDA-OHIO-FLORIDA.." - and then this? Comedy gold!

That'd be a stressful night, but so good in the end. Democrats probably don't even need Virginia if Democrats win Colorado, making that east coast clean sweep really rile people up.
 
If this study is right and Republicans need to get 40-something percent of the Latino vote to win we should just go ahead and give Hillary the Presidency once Sanders runs out of momentum:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-latino-gop-20150717-story.html

If the GOP doesn't change their anti-immigration attitude, with their usual side sneer of underlying racism, they are never going to win a general election. It seems like from at least 1976, the majority of Latinos have voted for a Democratic president, even during the Reagan and Bush Sr. days. There was a dip with Kerry, but Obama has picked up at least 70% of the vote in 2012. Asian Americans are also shifting to the Dems, which is also a fast growing demographic in America.

I hope to be around when Texas turns blue. How many years until that happens?
 

NeoXChaos

Member
If the GOP doesn't change their anti-immigration attitude, with their usual side sneer of underlying racism, they are never going to win a general election. It seems like from at least 1976, the majority of Latinos have voted for a Democratic president, even during the Reagan and Bush Sr. days. There was a dip with Kerry, but Obama has picked up at least 70% of the vote in 2012. Asian Americans are also shifting to the Dems, which is also a fast growing demographic in America.

I hope to be around when Texas turns blue. How many years until that happens?

hopeful: 2020 or 2024
Serious: 10-20 years.

White vote outvotes minority vote and registration is abysmal among minority vote. A quarter of them also votes R. Registering new voters may not bring democrats any closer in the short term. Long term is possible.

Found it:
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...hispanic-vote-111508_Page2.html#ixzz3gCcKFSqn

Better example:

Scenario one: Hispanic turnout increases to 45 percent (which is still less than the national average for Hispanic voters) and support for the Democratic presidential candidate remains at 65 percent, and only 25 percent of whites back the Democratic candidate. In that case, the Republican candidate would get almost 54 percent of the vote.

Scenario two: Hispanic turnout increases to 50 percent(which is still less than neighboring New Mexico), and support for the Democratic candidate climbs to 72 percent (which is still less than Hispanic support for Democrats in Colorado), but white support for the Democrat remains at 25 percent. In this case, the Republican squeaks by with a little over 51 percent of the vote.

Scenario three: Hispanic turnout only increases to 45 percent and support remains at 65 percent, but the Democrat gets 30 percent of the white vote. The Republican squeaks by with a little over 50 percent of the vote.

Scenario four: Hispanic turnout remains at 50 percent and support at 72 percent, but white support for the Democrat climbs to 30 percent. Then the Democrat gets 51.5 of the vote.

In other words, a Democratic presidential candidate could carry Texas in 2020 if Hispanic turnout grows, support for the Democratic candidate nears or exceeds 70 percent, and Democrats gather 30 percent of the Anglo vote. If the Democrats can’t attract more than 25 percent of the Anglo vote, then even the most energetic efforts at Hispanic mobilization won’t get their candidate across the finish line
 

ivysaur12

Banned
hopeful: 2020 or 2024
Serious: 10-20 years.

White vote outvotes minority vote and registration is abysmal among minority vote. A quarter of them also votes R. Registering new voters may not bring democrats any closer in the short term. Long term is possible.

Found it:
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...hispanic-vote-111508_Page2.html#ixzz3gCcKFSqn

Yes, that's true, but also, Democrats are just not putting any money into Texas races:

http://gppreview.com/2012/11/12/why-demographics-arent-enough-to-turn-texas-blue/

This last statistic is even more striking given the fact that nearly 20 percent of the nation’s 52 million Hispanics call Texas home. It is also a statistic that is unlikely to change in the near future. Sixty-nine percent of Hispanic Texans were born in the U.S., with a median age of only 19 years old, compared to 38 years old for Hispanics born outside the country. The systemic problem of voter apathy makes a little more sense given that 22 percent of voting age Hispanics lives in poverty, and their median income is 43 percent less than non-Hispanic whites. Education rates bear the same kind of results. Impoverished Americans with less educational opportunities generally vote at a much lower rate than those that are more affluent. Until the overall quality of life for Texas’ Hispanics improves, their turnout rate is unlikely to change. It will certainly be a challenge for any Democrat to overcome these types of trends in just a few election cycles.

Both of Texas’ senators are Republicans; as are 24 out of its 36 members in the House of Representatives. Republicans dominate the state legislature as well, with 19 out of 31 seats in the State Senate and 95 out of 150 seats in the State House. How can a minority-majority state, with such a large Hispanic population consistently elect a broad majority of Republican candidates? Much of the answer follows from the voter turnout analysis above, but that does not account for the whole story. There is another trend that is perhaps even more distressing for Democrats. Hispanic representation in its Congressional delegation is the second highest in the country, and the group’s representation within the state is increasing. However, these Hispanics are not all Democrats. Two Democratic Hispanic state representatives, Aaron Pena and J.M. Lozano, switched their allegiances to the Republican Party in the last two years. New Republican Senator-elect Ted Cruz is also Hispanic.

The Republican Party in general ignores and sometimes demonizes would-be Hispanic voters. However, Republicans in Texas have made a concerted effort to attract more Hispanic voters and candidates. At a press conference in July, state Republican Party Chairman Steve Munisteri said, “There will not be a future Republican Party of Texas as a majority party unless the Republican Party of Texas is successful in getting a very high percentage of the Hispanic vote.” The state’s amended party platform providing for a guest-worker program for immigrants reflects this knowledge. Texans may want to protect the border, but many of its businesses depend on those who have crossed it. According to Bob Price, the director of Café Con Leche Republicans, an organization developed to create better relations with the Hispanic community, the GOP’s platform will create “an effective guest worker program which will help businesses in finding legal workers for their employment needs.” There is evidence to suggest that Republican outreach in Texas is working; 46 percent of Hispanics identify as conservative compared to just 18 percent who identify themselves as liberal, with 36 percent not identifying with either label.

Another important factor likely to prevent Texas from becoming a swing state in the near term is the fact that the national Democratic Party has failed to commit the resources necessary to make Texas competitive. At a July fundraiser in San Antonio, his seventh in the state since taking office, President Obama asserted, “You’re not considered one of those battleground states… But that’s going to change.” However, according to former Democratic Lieutenant Governor and national party fundraiser Ben Barnes, the Democratic Party’s actions have not matched its leader’s rhetoric, “I don’t think the state party has been funded enough to be a powerful, functional organization.” The state’s senatorial election bears this out. Republican Ted Cruz raised a whopping $11.8 million compared to Democrat Paul Sadler’s meager total of $497,391. Until the Democratic Party is willing to put its money where its mouth is, Democratic candidates for statewide elections will continue to lose at an alarming rate.

Julian Castro represents the changing face of the Democratic Party and the changing face of America as a country. The rise of the Hispanic vote has no doubt given Democrats a firmer foundation for which to contest elections at the local, state, and national levels. But the rising tide has not yet lifted every boat. Texas Hispanics simply do not vote at high enough rates to dim Texas’ bright red tint.

Despite their efforts, the Texas Democratic Party has thus far failed to capitalize on the state’s minority-majority status. Perhaps Mayor Castro is the politician the Democrats need to turn the state blue—as it was for almost a century until the 1980s—but the state’s demographics will not be the only driving factor. For Texas to be competitive, more of the national party’s resources must be committed to the state. For their part, deep-pocketed Texas Democrats must keep their money in house as well. The party must consistently engage Hispanics at the local and state levels in Texas and must remain committed even if the prospects for immediate electoral success are dim. The Texas Democratic Party recently made Gilberto Hinojosa the organization’s first Hispanic chairman. This is an important signal that must be backed by a greater allocation of human and monetary capital within Hispanic communities.

The Obama re-election campaign was so successful because it recognized the importance of neighbor-to-neighbor contact and was willing to devote significant resources to this community-centric organization. If Democrats have learned anything about today’s electorate, it should be that Hispanics are more willing than ever to help put a Democrat in the White House. The sheer number of Hispanics in Texas will not make the state competitive on its own, but a consistent ground game could make a huge difference. When that happens, a Democratic Texas will be much closer to becoming a reality.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I am sure by that point CA and NY will return to being swing states lol. There is no way AZ, GA and TX will change without other safe states becoming swing states again. That would be electoral doom for the GOP to lose TX while CA, NY and IL remain safely Democratic.


http://www.270towin.com/2016_election_predictions.php?mapid=bLVv

NY is too populous, multicultural, and urban to go GOP. There's literally no reason for it to swing right, given current political trends.
 
NY is too populous, multicultural, and urban to go GOP. There's literally no reason for it to swing right, given current political trends.

It's worth remembering that there's 2 NYs: the City and... uh, everything else. Upstate would be solidly republican if you broke it off.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
This is true, but the city and it's suburbs make up most of the state's population and those are all solid blue.

VA only goes blue because of Northern VA. If you broke off Northern Va Va would be solidly Republican. IL without Chicago/Cook County and a few other D counties is Republican. Heck the countries map is mostly red aside from blue spots all over like rivers. PA goes blue because of Philadelphia. If you anex Philly from the rest of the state its Red. etc etc etc.
 

T'Zariah

Banned
Shit, that's nothing. The NY metropolitan area has 23 million people in it. States it outnumbers include... um, all of them, except Texas and Cali.

The city proper has "only" 8.5 million people, which makes it larger than all but 12.

Welp.

I had to sit down when I read that.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Welp.

I had to sit down when I read that.

Yea, and yet somehow it doesn't feel that big. The City proper feels more like a hundred or so smaller towns mashed together like Marvel's Battleworld or something. Even neighborhoods right next to each other feel wildly different.
 

bomma_man

Member
Shit, that's nothing. The NY metropolitan area has 23 million people in it. States it outnumbers include... um, all of them, except Texas and Cali.

The city proper has "only" 8.5 million people, which makes it larger than all but 12.

Larger population than most developed countries
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I was kind of impressed that the governor of Alaska expanded medicaid. But then I found out that he was in Independent.
 
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