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[NYCmetsfan]

What are the chances of Grayson beating Murphy? They both are unknown statewide.

Eh I really don't know. Grayson is got the same hype with the white liberals Murphy I think as more ability to reach other parts of the base. Grayson is loaded though and he's running hard trying to make Murphy a Republican because he donated to Romney in 2008. (He was like 25). They state party wants Murphy since the GOP has recruited horribly.

Murphy is going after Grayson for his hedge funds but I don't know polling and I think mostly every thing is about money. I know some big Clinton bundlers are behind Murphy like John Morgan (read a Clinton story connected to Florida and try to not see a quote from him)

Grayson is weird he's got a big Latino population in his district but he doesn't champion there causes too much. He runs for the California liberals policies. Murphy can really hit him there IMO

 

[ErasureAcer]

Or voters whose chief concerns are as dumb as, say, ErasureAcer's.

Yeah because living wages are a horrible idea. GTFOOH with your trickle down economics.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yeah because living wages are a horrible idea. GTFOOH with your trickle down economics.

They can certainly have bad economic consequences; $15 isn't going to work in every city/town. Let states decide. Give people the choice. It helps the grassroots movement far more than having Congress make the decision from Washington.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

They can certainly have bad economic consequences; $15 isn't going to work in every city/town. Let states decide. Give people the choice. It helps the grassroots movement far more than having Congress make the decision from Washington.

The whole point is to give a boost to the grassroots and ballot measures. But you'd concern troll anything.

 

[ErasureAcer]

They can certainly have bad economic consequences; $15 isn't going to work in every city/town. Let states decide. Give people the choice. It helps the grassroots movement far more than having Congress make the decision from Washington.

Says the man with a full belly.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I wouldn't be surprised if the day comes when the President is going around reality shows just to get coverage because no one listens to weekly addresses anymore or even televised speeches.

Tune in to Big Brother to see special house guest POTUS or guest host of america's got talent.

Bush did deal or no deal

https://youtu.be/77_LEJQRrus

 

[Coriolanus]

Found that muslim marxist bit curious, went googling, found out that some muslim guy implemented guaranteed basic income fifteen centuries ago. Welp.

Baller acceptance speech too, as far as theocracies are concerned:

I have been given the authority over you, and I am not the best of you. If I do well, help me; and if I do wrong, set me right. Sincere regard for truth is loyalty and disregard for truth is treachery. The weak amongst you shall be strong with me until I have secured his rights, if God wills; and the strong amongst you shall be weak with me until I have wrested from him the rights of others, if God wills. Obey me so long as I obey God and His Messenger. But if I disobey God and His Messenger, you owe me no obedience. Arise for your prayer, God have mercy upon you.

Also read about Mirsaid Sultan-Galiev, who had quite the interesting trajectory.

 

[RustyNails]

Found that muslim marxist bit curious, went googling, found out that some muslim guy implemented guaranteed basic income fifteen centuries ago. Welp.

Baller acceptance speech too, as far as theocracies are concerned:


Also read about Mirsaid Sultan-Galiev, who had quite the interesting trajectory.

Abu Bakr Siddiq is not just "some muslim guy" he was Muhammad's closest companion, compatriot and friend. He was decided as the first Caliph by a consensus. He reigned for 2 years and majority of it was spent quelling Confederate Rebllions, as many Arabian clans and tribes reneged on their Pact with Mecca as soon as Muhammad died. Sorry went off on a tangent. Look up Abu Bakr's Rules of War as well.

 

[AndyD]

They can certainly have bad economic consequences; $15 isn't going to work in every city/town. Let states decide. Give people the choice. It helps the grassroots movement far more than having Congress make the decision from Washington.

States have that power now and they are not doing much with it. Some cities have that power and are sometimes blocked by the states altogether.

The thing is that states don't have a terribly high incentive to raise minimum wages, because most welfare/food stamp/medicaid money is federal money so they don't spend too much of their own money if their population is underpaid, they just collect less tax revenue.

 

[j_k_redtail]

It's pretty clear that a lot of republicans have simply latched onto Carson as the more calm Trump alternative. They still want their anti-establishment candidate but Trumps unfavorability numbers are through the roof.

Christie, Paul and Huckabee will continue to deflate because they don't have enough support from either people looking into establishment or the actual people looking for anti-establishment candidates.

Paul is not his father, he has taken centrists positions to endear himself to the Republican base and in the process has lost all the libertarian leaning republicans. It's pretty clear even as he was distancing himself from his father last election cycle.

I'm a fan of this hypothesis: Carson's rise is more due to his being the antiTrump than anything else. In the meantime we can take a moment to thank Donald Trump for sucking all the air out of the room and depriving Walker and Jeb! of the oxygen they need to survive.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

After today's comments, I think the idiot from Wisconsin should be nicknamed Scott Wall-ker.

What a shit-for-brains. I wonder if the Koch brothers realize they made a huge mistake yet?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Is trump going to destroy grover and all GOP orthodoxy besides immigration?

Seriously he's winning but running on higher taxes on the rich, not dismantling the social safety net, opposing flat tax, what's next?

 

[BertramCooper]

Just concluded a debate with a Facebook acquaintance over abortion. Oof.

He was trying to claim that men should have legal rights over a fetus and then trying to paint himself as being moderate on the issue because he "doesn't want Roe v. Wade overturned."

Yeah because living wages are a horrible idea. GTFOOH with your trickle down economics.

Apologies - I hadn't realize that it had surpassed video games as your foremost political concern.

And I love your laughable assumption that I'm a proponent of trickle-down economics.

 

[Mario]

What a shit-for-brains. I wonder if the Koch brothers realize they made a huge mistake yet?

With the outlook at this point, whoever wins (the nomination), they lose.

 

[BertramCooper]

What a shit-for-brains. I wonder if the Koch brothers realize they made a huge mistake yet?

The Kochs would be a helluva lot scarier if they were more politically astute. Because they're really not. They just have a shitload of money and very strong political opinions.

 

[HylianTom]

With the outlook at this point, whoever wins (the nomination), they lose.

Agree. I don't see an elegant, clean way out of this primary season for the GOP.

It's gonna hurt.

It's gonna hurt bad.

 

[User1608]

The Kochs would be a helluva lot scarier if they were more politically astute. Because they're really not. They just have a shitload of money and very strong political opinions.

Thank The heavens for that, seriously. Going to feel good when they fail, again, next year and it'll be even better if and when Citizens United gets overturned.

 

[Fenderputty]

Is trump going to destroy grover and all GOP orthodoxy besides immigration?

Seriously he's winning but running on higher taxes on the rich, not dismantling the social safety net, opposing flat tax, what's next?

He's been saying shit that would sink other GOP candidates since his comments on McCain.

And I love your laughable assumption that I'm a proponent of trickle-down economics.

The bow-tie on your avatar is super bourgeoisie.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Agree. I don't see an elegant, clean way out of this primary season for the GOP.

It's gonna hurt.

It's gonna hurt bad.

Jon Chait's column today basically makes the same point, that dealing with Trump is either going to be painful or disastrous:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/08/what-is-the-trump-endgame.html

 

[BertramCooper]

Perhaps the Republican Party leadership will finally realize how out of touch they are with their own base.

The party's platform does a remarkably shitty job of reflecting the actual opinions of its base. I mean, how many things does the party oppose that a majority of the base supports? (Or vice versa.) It's a pretty sizable list.

 

[Basileus777]

Perhaps the Republican Party leadership will finally realize how out of touch they are with their own base.

The party's platform does a remarkably shitty job of reflecting the actual opinions of its base. I mean, how many things does the party oppose that a majority of the base supports? (Or vice versa.) It's a pretty sizable list.

I'm not sure what argument you are making here. What is their base? Are you suggesting that the Republican party needs to shift even further to the right on immigration to pander to the nativist sentiment fueling Trump? Or that Trump's more moderate economic views are what the base wants?

 

[BertramCooper]

I'm not sure what argument you are making here. What is their base? Are you suggesting that the Republican party needs to shift even further to the right on immigration to pander to the nativist sentiment fueling Trump?

What I'm saying is that Trump's stances on economics and several other issues, which seem to strongly go against party orthodoxy, aren't going to bother rank-and-file Republicans as much as the party assumes.

Most Republicans don't truly give a shit if billionaires pay more taxes, and a majority might actually support it.

 

[Basileus777]

What I'm saying is that Trump's stances on economics and several other issues, which seem to strongly go against party orthodoxy, aren't going to bother rank-and-file Republicans as much as the party assumes.

Trump is such a unique candidate that I'm not sure that you can project these things onto other candidates so cleanly. How many of those supporting Trump even know his views on taxation? Could anyone else really get away with saying what he has said, especially given that they have to worry about financial backing where Trump doesn't?

 

[ErasureAcer]

Apologies - I hadn't realize that it had surpassed video games as your foremost political concern.

When did I ever say videogames were my main issue? Top 10 issue or Top 100 issue for that matter?

I've said $15/min wage is my top issue. If people not living in poverty is one of your issues you'd be supporting Bernie or at least pushing whatever candidate you support to lift people out of poverty...but you're not doing that, right? You're making such a difference in the world Coop.

 

[Fenderputty]

Has anyone started taking back their Jeb predictions that NeoX was keeping track of yet?

 

[BertramCooper]

Trump is such a unique candidate that I'm not sure that you can project these things onto other candidates so cleanly. How many of those supporting Trump even know his views on taxation? Could anyone else really get away with saying what he has said, especially given that they have to worry about financial backing where Trump doesn't?

I'm not suggesting that Trump isn't a unique racist snowflake. He definitely is.

But when you look at opinions polls where Republicans are asked very specific policy questions, there are some HUGELY different results than what you'll see from the party as a whole - on all sorts of issues like taxation and gun control.

Both of those factors combined make for a very dangerous situation for Reince & Co.

When did I ever say videogames were my main issue? Top 10 issue or Top 100 issue for that matter?

You bring it up frequently when discussing your complete hatred of Hillary Clinton - as if she were actually running on the issue or gave a shit enough about violent video games to propose sweeping action on them as president. The former which is clearly not the case, the latter which is extremely unlikely.

I've said $15/min wage is my top issue. If people not living in poverty is one of your issues you'd be supporting Bernie or at least pushing whatever candidate you support to lift people out of poverty...but you're not doing that, right?

You're making such a difference in the world Coop.

Hopefully more than some crazy person annoying the shit out of everyone on a message board by posting about a hopeless candidate ad nauseam.

 

[HylianTom]

Jon Chait's column today basically makes the same point, that dealing with Trump is either going to be painful or disastrous:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/08/what-is-the-trump-endgame.html

Damn, that's dead-on.

I saw something brief today on CNN claiming that there are grumblings of a planned attack on Trump after Labor Day, but the report doesn't really provide any concrete substantiation to those claims. Still, it's pretty believable. As time goes on, I'm betting that the temptation for the establishment to unload on Trump is going to get more and more irresistable.

2. An anti-Trump ad deluge after Labor Day?

It's no secret the Republican establishment is unnerved by Donald Trump and his lead in national and key state polls.

And now, after weeks of assuming his support would be fleeting, there is a debate about how to take aim at Trump -- and just who should finance such an effort.

CNN's Maeve Reston noted that most GOP strategists see risks in having the attacks come from the other candidates or their directly affiliated super PACs. So, she reports, there is conversation about what other group might raise money for anti-Trump TV ads.

"There are a lot of donors out there who see it as much too dangerous, obviously, for the candidates, or their allied super PACs, to go after Trump," said Reston. "So they're looking to more establishment PACs to potentially take him down in post-Labor Day ads."

 

[NeoXChaos]

Could he run as a write in and independent just in case some states forbid him from appearing on the ballot?

They are stupid for going after him so secretly. He will obviously know its a secret ploy by the establishment.

 

[Metaphoreus]

He was trying to claim that men should have legal rights over a fetus and then trying to paint himself as being moderate on the issue because he "doesn't want Roe v. Wade overturned."

I remember a thread on that topic from years ago. Bizarre idea.

Also, I was kind of an asshole back then:

For you, the benefit of not having to pay a fraction of your income for a non-custodial child far outweighs the value of that child in existing. That says very little for your worth. To wrap it all up in claims of "fairness" and "justice" only indicates a moral cowardice: say what you mean, instead of hiding behind vague concepts that can't justify your proposals.

Spoiler

in b4 "back then?"

EDIT:

Can't. The mods cracked down on the last one.

That's why it's a dare.

 

[RDreamer]

Perhaps the Republican Party leadership will finally realize how out of touch they are with their own base.

The party's platform does a remarkably shitty job of reflecting the actual opinions of its base. I mean, how many things does the party oppose that a majority of the base supports? (Or vice versa.) It's a pretty sizable list.

Or they'll finally realize that their coalition is actually just largely held together by racism & sexism and not any real policy goals.

 

[Sianos]

political rhetoric question of the day

why does my family seem to be in a perpetual state of panic over ben carson winning the republican nomination because of "the black vote", yet finds my (inwardly sarcastic) assertion that one of the fourteen white dudes will win the republican nomination because of "the white vote" ridiculous? after all there are a lot more white people than black people so that sounds reasonable right???

help me unpack this contradiction to the fullest extent, poligaf

 

[BertramCooper]

Or they'll finally realize that their coalition is actually just largely held together by racism & sexism and not any real policy goals.

That's the thing - there are a TON of single-issue voters in the GOP.

It's why joke candidates like Huckabee can stick around for so fucking long.

 

[Fenderputty]

I remember a thread on that topic from years ago. Bizarre idea.

OOO shit ... that OP was the guy who supported sex among siblings IIRC. lol

 

[Poodlestrike]

political rhetoric question of the day

why does my family seem to be in a perpetual state of panic over ben carson winning the republican nomination because of "the black vote", yet finds my (inwardly sarcastic) assertion that one of the fourteen white dudes will win the republican nomination because of "the white vote" ridiculous? after all there are a lot more white people than black people so that sounds reasonable right???

help me unpack this contradiction to the fullest extent, poligaf

Pretty straightforward: to a lot of people, white is the "default." Thus, there is no "white people vote," just the "regular people vote," which is divided up according to various regular people issues. Meanwhile, the black vote is treated as a distinct entity, which operates on non-issue based reasoning.

 

[Metaphoreus]

OOO shit ... that OP was the guy who supported sex among siblings IIRC. lol

I guess that explains the thread, then.

 

[RDreamer]

That's the thing - there are a TON of single-issue voters in the GOP.

It's why joke candidates like Huckabee can stick around for so fucking long.

I tend to think there's a large portion of voters on either side that are mostly voting for one or two social issues and either don't care about the rest or because of that issue or issues they tend to believe that side more on everything else.

I really wonder what would happen if abortion was taken out of the equation nowadays. I feel like there are a lot of voters that are like "Well, they're horrible baby kills and wrong on this, thus they must be wrong on nearly everything."

 

[Roland_Gunner]

Damn, that's dead-on.

I saw something brief today on CNN claiming that there are grumblings of a planned attack on Trump after Labor Day, but the report doesn't really provide any concrete substantiation to those claims. Still, it's pretty believable. As time goes on, I'm betting that the temptation for the establishment to unload on Trump is going to get more and more irresistable.

But how do you go after Trump without pissing him off enough to run third party? Even if he gets 5% of the vote that would make it almost impossible for the Republicans to win. 3% might do it. Chait's argument is that instead of going after Trump they're going to have to kiss his ass enough that he won't run, which will of course alienate Hispanics, Asians, etc.

 

[ivysaur12]

OOO shit ... that OP was the guy who supported sex among siblings IIRC. lol

Something something GAF defense force.

 

[Sianos]

Pretty straightforward: to a lot of people, white is the "default." Thus, there is no "white people vote," just the "regular people vote," which is divided up according to various regular people issues. Meanwhile, the black vote is treated as a distinct entity, which operates on non-issue based reasoning.

I couldn't get them to understand (or outwardly demonstrate understanding) why they had the disparity between what they thought of the "black vote" and the "white vote", but I like to think it at least stuck another needle into their burgeoning cognitive dissonance on some level.

 

[HylianTom]

But how do you go after Trump without pissing him off enough to run third party? Even if he gets 5% of the vote that would make it almost impossible for the Republic to win. 3% might do it. Chait's argument is that instead of going after Trump they're going to have to kiss his ass enough that he won't run, which will of course alienate Hispanics, Asians, etc.

Like I said.. I don't see a happy ending to this for the GOP. You've nailed the issue of him running independently. Hell, even a write-in campaign that shaves a few percent off of the GOP ticket's tally would be a mortal wound.

Meanwhile, if he stays in the party, he taints it. I hope he gets enough delegates to make some fun demands. =D

 

[Fenderputty]

I really wonder what would happen if abortion was taken out of the equation nowadays. I feel like there are a lot of voters that are like "Well, they're horrible baby kills and wrong on this, thus they must be wrong on nearly everything."

Or if the party never aligned with the religious right in the 70's.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Has anyone started taking back their Jeb predictions that NeoX was keeping track of yet?

I am going to do a status update for everyone atleast once a week from now until closing.. Your free to change your vote anytime though. Jut let me know.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=175943039&postcount=16263

 

[Plinko]

Is trump going to destroy grover and all GOP orthodoxy besides immigration?

Seriously he's winning but running on higher taxes on the rich, not dismantling the social safety net, opposing flat tax, what's next?

Again: Please show me how this guy is worse than any other republican running right now. He's easily the least dangerous to the country, IMO.

 

[Fenderputty]

Again: Please show me how this guy is worse than any other republican running right now. He's easily the least dangerous to the country, IMO.

I agree. He's louder, but I don't believe any more racist than the field though.

 

[RDreamer]

Again: Please show me how this guy is worse than any other republican running right now. He's easily the least dangerous to the country, IMO.

I don't think you can use that as a measuring stick, because there's no fucking way we'd actually go to a flat tax. That always seems like one of those things conservatives tell their base, but no one could ever actually implement.

 

[Coriolanus]

I am going to do a status update for everyone atleast once a week from now until closing.. Your free to change your vote anytime though. Jut let me know.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=175943039&postcount=16263

If you ever have the patience, you should also put the date when each one called it. Might get someone a Nostradamus tag.

 

[NeoXChaos]

If you ever have the patience, you should also put the date when each one called it. Might get someone a Nostradamus tag.

Definitely will. It will be up by tonight.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Again: Please show me how this guy is worse than any other republican running right now. He's easily the least dangerous to the country, IMO.

Well to me personally I don't like the fascist overtones. And immigration is one of my top 3 issues. (Health Care, Welfare, Immigration)

 

[HylianTom]

If there were some way to remotely view an alternative universe in which Trump wins, I'd love to see how he handles realizing the structural limitations of our government.

He tries something.. the courts kill it.
He calls on Congress, they can't get a cloture vote.
He goes to a foreign country and tries to strong-arm a deal, the talks end at a standstill.
He tries something else.. courts kill it..
And so on..
And so on..

 

[Metaphoreus]

I am going to do a status update for everyone atleast once a week from now until closing.. Your free to change your vote anytime though. Jut let me know.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=175943039&postcount=16263

It'd be interesting if you kept track of your updates, too. That way we could see how peoples' opinions have changed over time. Maybe use a public Google Docs spreadsheet?