Support NeoGAF

[disastermouse]

The housing issues in cities (w/ NY/SF as the extreme examples) are primarily due to NIMBYism. New building is intentionally made more difficult by the residents voting for these policies, which increases their investments while hurting both businesses (developers) and lower/middle income people who don't own property. Cities which aren't able to crank on these roadblocks as hard (due to zoning being controlled more at the state level in their area) have ended up with less housing issues because of it.

And NIMBY is primarily due to people considering their houses investments, outside the fundamental function of use-value.

Capitalism.

 

[kirblar]

And NIMBY is primarily due to people considering their houses investments, outside the fundamental function of use-value.

Capitalism.

Not Capitalism. Regulatory Capture

Nope. It's not like you could anyway. The functional needs for living in a society in 17th Century England and 21st Century America are totally different. If you did write down a definition the same thing would happen to it as happened to the minimum wage, someone would fail to adjust it for political purposes and it'd languish into complete meaninglessness (unless you really think you need adequate tools for tilling your crops in Manhattan).

The overall standard of living for the bottom 20-40% has gone up noticeably in the past 30 years. I wish I had a link to the analysis I saw on it, but things are definitely better today, even in spite of income inequality and other issues that have emerged.

 

[benjipwns]

Is there actually some definition somewhere of what the "living" wage is supposed to pay for by the way? What's decent? Like does everybody get iPhones or are they stuck with Xiaomis?

The means of production are no longer the private property of individuals. The means of production belong to the whole of society. Every member of society, performing a certain part of the socially-necessary work, receives a certificate from society to the effect that he has done a certain amount of work. And with this certificate he receives from the public store of consumer goods a corresponding quantity of products. After a deduction is made of the amount of labor which goes to the public fund, every worker, therefore, receives from society as much as he has given to it.

 

[Makai]

Agree in theory. In practice you have to though. People getting paid the minimum wage can't actually afford relocation to somewhere more suitable. Not to mention that if they could New York's economy would crater until a new baseline of minimum payment for living in New York while keeping the city functional emerged.

New Jersey is like 5 miles away.

 

[disastermouse]

Not Capitalism. Regulatory Capture

In the service of Capitalism. Duh.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Not Capitalism. Regulatory Capture

Have we yet discovered a form of capitalism that doesn't move towards regulatory capture in any environment where it doesn't already benefit from all the advantages of regulatory capture ?

 

[kirblar]

New Jersey is like 5 miles away.

Jersey's also expensive as crap.

It and the DC area are the two places where kids stay living with their parents the longest.

 

[disastermouse]

Not Capitalism. Regulatory Capture

The overall standard of living for the bottom 20-40% has gone up noticeably in the past 30 years. I wish I had a link to the analysis I saw on it, but things are definitely better today, even in spite of income inequality and other issues that have emerged.

Yes, brown and black people are now shot in the full and enduring light of their HD TVs while captured on videos taken by their cell phones.

The working poor are still not getting their share.

 

[Holmes]

but the minimum wage is not supposed to be a livable wage that's why its called minimum wage.

Walmart and McDonalds would rather go under than pay their employees $15 an hour.

The minimum wage should be a living wage, that's the minimum that employers should give their employees. It's their worth.

 

[disastermouse]

The means of production are no longer the private property of individuals. The means of production belong to the whole of society. Every member of society, performing a certain part of the socially-necessary work, receives a certificate from society to the effect that he has done a certain amount of work. And with this certificate he receives from the public store of consumer goods a corresponding quantity of products. After a deduction is made of the amount of labor which goes to the public fund, every worker, therefore, receives from society as much as he has given to it.

And who determines the value of what he has given to society?

If you say 'the market' you're a liar and I think you know it.

 

[kirblar]

Have we yet discovered a form of capitalism that doesn't move towards regulatory capture in any environment where it doesn't already benefit from all the advantages of regulatory capture ?

We never will- the problem is people, it's an eternal conflict. You can only try and push back on it as much you can.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Not Capitalism. Regulatory Capture

The overall standard of living for the bottom 20-40% has gone up noticeably in the past 30 years. I wish I had a link to the analysis I saw on it, but things are definitely better today, even in spite of income inequality and other issues that have emerged.

This is true worldwide, actually. We're on pace to effectively eliminate extreme poverty (defined as living on less than $1.50 a day, if I recall) around the world in our lifetime.

 

[B-Dubs]

New Jersey is like 5 miles away.

Jersey ain't cheap either. The real estate market has gone crazier than usual around here.

 

[Elaugaufein]

The overall standard of living for the bottom 20-40% has gone up noticeably in the past 30 years. I wish I had a link to the analysis I saw on it, but things are definitely better today, even in spite of income inequality and other issues that have emerged.

Are you talking absolutely or relatively ? I'm not going to contest that for people who aren't homeless and also wouldn't have once been in the relatively powerful areas of the middle class that things are better off in absolute terms. That's true.

Some of the improved conditions is the wider availability of credit, which has effectively increased the quantity of money in circulation and has been used to ameliorate the relative fall in wages. It does cause some issues in credit crunches though.

 

[Holmes]

Guys, could the Nevada caucuses being at 11am have an impact on (youth) turnout? Could it have been a factor in why Obama lost to Clinton in 2008 when he was otherwise so strong in caucuses?

 

[benjipwns]

And who determines the value of what he has given to society?

If you say 'the market' you're a liar and I think you know it.

You're arguing with Lenin you revisionist social fascist Western puppet.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Is there actually some definition somewhere of what the "living" wage is supposed to pay for by the way? What's decent? Like does everybody get iPhones or are they stuck with Xiaomis?

Poor people are allowed to have phones!? First fridges, now they get phones! I'm so glad my taxes I paid from working my ass off are going to some lazy millenial.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

You're arguing with Lenin you revisionist social fascist Western puppet.

Do you have any chill left?

I'm just kidding. Your posts always make me laugh.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Guys, could the Nevada caucuses being at 11am have an impact on (youth) turnout? Could it have been a factor in why Obama lost to Clinton in 2008 when he was otherwise so strong in caucuses?

I don't think so ? I mean its not like 11 am is any better for average people with 9-5 jobs than it is for people with School or Early Career commitments. It probably mildly favors the latter if anything.

 

[Macho Madness]

Guys, could the Nevada caucuses being at 11am have an impact on (youth) turnout? Could it have been a factor in why Obama lost to Clinton in 2008 when he was otherwise so strong in caucuses?

11AM on a Saturday? Man it's rare I'm showered before then.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I don't think so ? I mean its not like 11 am is any better for average people with 9-5 jobs than it is for people with School or Early Career commitments. It probably mildly favors the latter if anything.

It's a Saturday so it's heavily favored to older people.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Do you have any chill left?

I'm just kidding. Your posts always make me laugh.

I have to admit he's grown on me pretty fast. It's pretty instructive to have someone who can argue against/for everything at the drop of a hat.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I don't think so ? I mean its not like 11 am is any better for average people with 9-5 jobs than it is for people with School or Early Career commitments. It probably mildly favors the latter if anything.

Well, they're on a Saturday. #2hungover2caucus #shouldnthavswipedright

 

[kirblar]

Are you talking absolutely or relatively ? I'm not going to contest that for people who aren't homeless and also wouldn't have once been in the relatively powerful areas of the middle class that things are better off in absolute terms. That's true.

Some of the improved conditions is the wider availability of credit, which has effectively increased the quantity of money in circulation and has been used to ameliorate the relative fall in wages. It does cause some issues in credit crunches though.

Absolute standard of living. Relative is where you see the polarization happening.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I don't think you should adjust for cost of living in a minimum wage. New York is more expensive to live in because it's awesome. I can't hop on a Subway or go to an early TV screening in Oklahoma.

Aren't state minimum wages exactly that? Regional adjustment for cost of living?

 

[Elaugaufein]

Well, they're on a Saturday. #2hungover2caucus

It's a Saturday so it's heavily favored to older people.

Yeah. That'll definitely work against the youth vote some. Even if you don't assume they are out partying hard on a Friday night, Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon (which means you can't do an 11 am caucus) is almost a given for work commitments in the demographics.

 

[dabig2]

Say it loud and say it proud!

Ba-sic in-come!
*clap* *clap* *clap clap clap*

Ba-sic in-come!
*clap* *clap* *clap clap clap*

Baaaaaaaaaasiiiiiiiiic iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiincooooome!

Of course in the absence of this country coalescing around the only thing that makes sense, I fully support a $15 minimum wage but will allow something as low as $12 to pass. But only if the $12 is done quickly as in gets implemented fully by the end of 2017 at the latest. Also need to finally tie that sumabitch to inflation.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Guys, could the Nevada caucuses being at 11am have an impact on (youth) turnout? Could it have been a factor in why Obama lost to Clinton in 2008 when he was otherwise so strong in caucuses?

Actually, I think Iowa holding it at 7 pm was more detrimental to youth turnout. Think about how many older folks work 9-5 jobs and therefore could go to caucus sites after work, while younger voters were stuck at their retail/restaurant/fast food gigs. Obviously not every young person works those kinds of jobs, but those jobs do skew younger.

 

[Macho Madness]

Aren't state minimum wages exactly that? Regional adjustment for cost of living?

There's a lot of states that default to federal. And you can't argue $7.25 is a living wage.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Aren't state minimum wages exactly that? Regional adjustment for cost of living?

That's the theory. But ...
there are still states with minimum wages below the Federal Standard (and that hasn't been adjusted in 6 years). And about half that just use the Federal Standard. So that seems questionable in practice.

 

[Holmes]

Just for fun, I looked at exit polls in Nevada and Iowa in 2008, and Iowa in 2016 to see and compare youth turnout.

Iowa: Caucuses at 7pm on weekday night.
2008: 40% 17-44, 60% 45+
2016: 37% 17-44, 63% 45+

Nevada: Caucuses at 11am on weekend morning.
2008: 32% 17-44 (13% <29), 68% 45+

Nevada caucuses are also more Democratic (less Independent) than in Iowa too, probably because it's less white too. So I think I'm starting to see why Clinton did beat Obama on caucus night in the state, along with her stronger union support in Las Vegas. If the 45+ vote breaks 70% and the youth vote is below 30%, it's not good for Sanders.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Aren't state minimum wages exactly that? Regional adjustment for cost of living?

In theory, sure. Unfortunately, half the country is run by people who would happily get rid of the minimum wage in a second if they could.

 

[Makai]

Aren't state minimum wages exactly that? Regional adjustment for cost of living?

It costs more to live in a city than the boonies.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Just for fun, I looked at exit polls in Nevada and Iowa in 2008, and Iowa in 2016 to see and compare youth turnout.

Iowa: Caucuses at 7pm on weekday night.
2008: 40% 17-44, 60% 45+
2016: 37% 17-44, 63% 45+

Nevada: Caucuses at 11am on weekend morning.
2008: 32% 17-44 (13% <29), 68% 45+



Nevada caucuses are also more Democratic (less Independent) than in Iowa too, probably because it's less white too. So I think I'm starting to see why Clinton did beat Obama on caucus night in the state, along with her stronger union support in Las Vegas. If the 45+ vote breaks 70% and the youth vote is below 30%, it's not good for Sanders.

Looks like my theory a few posts up was wrong. Interesting stats.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Just for fun, I looked at exit polls in Nevada and Iowa in 2008, and Iowa in 2016 to see and compare youth turnout.

Iowa: Caucuses at 7pm on weekday night.
2008: 40% 17-44, 60% 45+
2016: 37% 17-44, 63% 45+

Nevada: Caucuses at 11am on weekend morning.
2008: 32% 17-44 (13% <29), 68% 45+

Nevada caucuses are also more Democratic (less Independent) than in Iowa too, probably because it's less white too. So I think I'm starting to see why Clinton did beat Obama on caucus night in the state, along with her stronger union support in Las Vegas. If the 45+ vote breaks 70% and the youth vote is below 30%, it's not good for Sanders.

So Sanders might win Vermont and that's it. Wish Hillary shared his stance on marijuana decriminilization and legalization.

 

[Holmes]

Another thing to consider is that Clark county (Las Vegas) accounted for 66% of all delegates in 2008, so it's probably going to be around that same ballpark this year too, and that's the most non-white part of the state.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Is there actually some definition somewhere of what the "living" wage is supposed to pay for by the way? What's decent? Like does everybody get iPhones or are they stuck with Xiaomis?

It's worth noting, Verizon at least has changed their system for buying phones and now rather than cough up $300-600 upfront you just pay $15-35 a month (and they dropped their plan prices from $40 base to $20 base) for your plan to pay for your phone. I end up saving $11 a month by getting an iPhone 6S the other day.

There's a lot of states that default to federal. And you can't argue $7.25 is a living wage.

I have a very respectable cardboard box.

 

[Elaugaufein]

It's worth noting, Verizon at least has changed their system for buying phones and now rather than cough up $300-600 upfront you just pay $15-35 a month (and they dropped their plan prices from $40 base to $20 base) for your plan to pay for your phone. I end up saving $11 a month by getting an iPhone 6S the other day.

Okay, I just went through a paradigm shift. That's been the standard way of buying phones in Australia for well over a decade.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Okay, I just went through a paradigm shift. That's been the standard way of buying phones in Australia for well over a decade.

In America we like doing things as difficult as possible.

 

[benjipwns]

In America we like doing things as difficult as possible.

Just look at how the Constitution designed our Presidential primaries.

 

[disastermouse]

You're arguing with Lenin you revisionist social fascist Western puppet.

Revisionist, I get. Fascist I don't.

 

[disastermouse]

It costs more to live in a city than the boonies.

Not to your soul, you brute.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

It costs more to live in a city than the boonies.

I don't think I've heard of minimum wage being tied to cost of living. Only inflation/purchashing-power.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I don't think I've heard of minimum wage being tied to cost of living. Only inflation/purchashing-power.

That's because the bureaucratic overhead of having a different minimum wage for every neighbourhood in the country causes Grover Norquist to wake up in a cold sweat.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

We have to stop Bernie Sanders! He's tied with Clinton in Nevada!

This race is fucked. We're fucked. Everything is fucked.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

We have to stop Bernie Sanders! He's tied with Clinton in Nevada!

This race is fucked. We're fucked. Everything is fucked.

Especially America. If Sanders wins.

 

[Suikoguy]

We have to stop Bernie Sanders! He's tied with Clinton in Nevada!

This race is fucked. We're fucked. Everything is fucked.

Good thing that poll could not be anymore suspect.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Especially America. If Sanders wins.

Trump is going to be president. Holy shit.

 

[benjipwns]

Yep, it's over.

Saturday night's GOP demolition derby on CBS was the highest rated primary debate since December, according to Nielsen.

The fiery contest between six Republican contenders easily out-rated the two person

Democratic debate earlier in the week, once again affirming that Donald Trump and his GOP rivals are bigger draws than Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.

CBS averaged 13.5 million viewers between 9 and 11 pm, surpassing the 13.3 million who tuned in for last Saturday's Republican debate on ABC.

The other GOP debates so far this year have averaged 11 million (on Fox Business in mid January) and 12.5 million (on Fox News in late January).

For comparison's sake, Thursday's Democratic match-up on PBS and CNN totaled 8 million viewers between the two channels.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Good thing that poll could not be anymore suspect.

The Freebeacon is the best poll.