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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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M

mAcOdIn

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
Dunno. So much of the race boiled down to "Trump is unprepared and a catastrophic candidate who will destroy xyz." Similar to strategies used against Obama and Clinton. What if Trump turns out to be a normal president - not saying good, but normally decent, average, meh, whatever. What if the economy continues to grow - barring some insane trade war or recession, it's hard to see the economy tanking immediately after four years of tax cuts and increased business loans for instance.

Point being if people look around in four years and say "hey the world didn't end, and in fact the world is pretty good for my (white) ass" why wouldn't Trump be well positioned to win again. Not to mention the fact that if he's even just semi competent he should be able to raise a billion dollars in 2020.

Winning once gives you a good shot at winning again. Especially with democrats lacking a great candidate to unify the party. I'm not saying that Trump is going to win, I'm just saying we shouldn't assume he'll be perceived as a disaster by most of the country. A lot of republicans thought Clinton and Obama had no shot at re-election due to "disastrous" first terms too.
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I agree with this. Honestly, I expect 8 years of Trump. Course, I'm going to work to prevent that but, I mean, it's his to lose not really ours to win.

Another thing I'd add is that this election was likely the best shot we had at securing the minority vote. We'll no longer have the fear of the unknown working for us. Unless he really follows through with a deportation force or makes all female staff in the Whitehouse wear short skirts as a uniform and sign a pussy grabbing agreement I don't think we should expect to have higher turnout from those groups than we already did. The Muslim registry, sadly, should it happen probably wouldn't cost him any votes at all. Really, if we're to expect to beat him work needed to start yesterday.

And I think we generally give his voters too little credit. We didn't all think Obamacare was the greatest but we gave him credit for doing something, we don't think his energy policies will avert global warming but we give him credit for doing something and now those precious little half steps are Obama's Legacy that we're trying to protect. I don't see any reason Trump's voters would be different. If he attempts to further secure the border but fails at a grand wall that will count, if he works to curb abortion but fails to totally overturn it that will count for something, if he works to cut taxes that will count for something, if he works to repeal Obamacare that will count for something. In the game of politics wanting to do things is as good as doing them, why the hell would someone who voted for someone based on a wall on the southern border, barring Muslims entry into the country, repealing Obamacare, curb abortions, etc, etc, turn around and vote for a candidate who's for no more border walls, letting Muslims into the country, maybe even taking refugees(!), easy access to abortions and expanding Obamacare or replacing it with something bigger?

Really, I don't get how we fail so often in messaging. How is it we're on the cusp of possibly losing Medicare and Social Security? How? Literally no-one's for it, how is it not career ending to suggest it? Why do so many people want to save the poor people getting screwed on the health exchanges with high premiums and deductibles wanting to help them by removing the ability to purchase anything? I don't see how we've allowed these issues to be framed in ways that people think of them as doable. More liberal politicians need to be out championing this shit. Not by sending their supporters an email asking for a buck but by getting out there in public and changing these narratives.
 
S

SpaceCadetKeon

Banned
So I remember seeing in some threads relating to climate change a few people relating our current situation to the plot of Final Fantasy VII. I saw this in my Facebook feed, and couldn't help but be reminded of it.

15826216_1877781839124542_5903794334716846986_n.jpg
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S

Sirpopopop

Member
Let's be clear - all this talk of messaging, etc. isn't going to work if you can't find a way to create a smarter electorate.

The idiots are ruling the coop. I expect short term gains and gradual disaster. Kind of like the end result of the Reagan Revolution leading us to this.
 
M

mAcOdIn

Member
Sirpopopop said:
Let's be clear - all this talk of messaging, etc. isn't going to work if you can't find a way to create a smarter electorate.

The idiots are ruling the coop. I expect short term gains and gradual disaster. Kind of like the end result of the Reagan Revolution leading us to this.
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You don't need a smarter electorate, that's an excuse. The right's figured out how to sell their crap to idiots, if we can't do the same that's not entirely on the electorate, that's on us too.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
The 10% of voters who like Obama but voted for Trump probably need to get non-white friends and then we'll win because then there will actually be consequences for that 10% voting for a white nationalist.

But I don't want to volunteer black people to have to become friends with Trump voters because, goddamn that would be painful.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
Sirpopopop said:
Let's be clear - all this talk of messaging, etc. isn't going to work if you can't find a way to create a smarter electorate.

The idiots are ruling the coop. I expect short term gains and gradual disaster. Kind of like the end result of the Reagan Revolution leading us to this.
Click to expand...

Well, I really believe that educating the electorate is the way to go. Not in a condescending "You should vote Dem" way, but actually forcing them to think through the GOP's ideas and policies, to create a more "mature" voter. Someone who, though they'd maybe love to take-away healthcare from the black guy next door, can see the impossibility of doing that whilst still keeping his coverage. Someone who, though they hate Hillary, would be able to see that her tax-breaks would help them, whilst Trump's would hurt them.

People are saying that if white guys aren't any worse-off, they'll vote Trump again in 4 years, and for a certain group, that's correct. But we should absolutely fight to educate the electorate, because it's as morally good as calling a medic for someone in need, and because helping people is what we do.

mAcOdIn said:
You don't need a smarter electorate, that's an excuse. The right's figured out how to sell their crap to idiots, if we can't do the same that's not entirely on the electorate, that's on us too.
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People literally voted against their interests this election. No doubt some of them did it because their racism/sexism won-out, sure. But others? Nope. Others are just dumb/illiterate/naive when it comes to this kind of thing.
 
M

mAcOdIn

Member
Pixieking said:
People literally voted against their interests this election. No doubt some of them did it because their racism/sexism won-out, sure. But others? Nope. Others are just dumb/illiterate/naive when it comes to this kind of thing.
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Sure, but I'm saying, surely it's harder to convince an idiot to vote against their best interests than for them.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
mAcOdIn said:
Sure, but I'm saying, surely it's harder to convince an idiot to vote against their best interests than for them.
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It depends. Which is a wishy-washy answer, I know. :p But it really does - people like easy-answers, so convincing someone to vote against their interests by playing into their implicit sexist/racist bias? That's easy: "Hillary's a woman! What does she know about business? Trump? Trump's been in business for 40 years!" Bang! Doesn't matter that he's a bad businessman, you've just sold someone who's sexist a reason to vote Trump.

And repeat that for racists. And for anti-feminists. And for women who don't think other women should choose careers over family...

And that's without getting into things like being honest to the coal-workers vs selling them the moon. Someone tells you you have to retrain to get a job, someone else tells you you can get your old-job back, which would you like to believe? It's why I say "mature" in my post - believing in wish-fulfillment hopes-and-dreams isn't the worst thing, it's just unrealistic. Voters need to be pushed into accepting responsibility for how politicians talk to them.
 
S

Sirpopopop

Member
mAcOdIn said:
Sure, but I'm saying, surely it's harder to convince an idiot to vote against their best interests than for them.
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It's easier for the idiot go with "Blame the Mexican," rather than whatever policy based argument you can trot out to support your viewpoint. The only leftist arguments that used to work were, "They want to send your jobs away to help their bottom line," or, "They want to touch your Social Security or Medicaid."

The Right's adapted to that by nominating a candidate hostile to free trade.
 
A

Aurongel

Member
Just had a flight from Hobby Houston to ATX where Ted Cruz sat across the aisle from me. My sister pointed him out to me while I was browsing this thread.

Awkward 😂
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Trump gave a 12:30 AM interview to the NYT over the fucking Golden Globes and this loser still won't admit it and say sorry.

Mr. Trump, as he has done many times before, grew heated in the interview as he flatly denied that he had intended to make fun of the Times reporter, Serge F. Kovaleski.

“I was never mocking anyone,” Mr. Trump said. “I was calling into question a reporter who had gotten nervous because he had changed his story,” arguing that the reporter had been trying to back away from an article he wrote in September 2001 about the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and elsewhere that month.

“People keep saying I intended to mock the reporter’s disability, as if Meryl Streep and others could read my mind, and I did no such thing,” he said in the interview.
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Fuck you, lick my asshole.

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/09/m...ss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytpolitics&smtyp=cur&_r=0
 
B

Bronx-Man

Banned
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

Dishonest media says Mexico won't be paying for the wall if they pay a little later so the wall can be built more quickly. Media is fake!
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I have tried like 6 times to read this and I have no fucking idea what it means.
 
S

SerAardvark

Member
I took it to mean he's implying he has some master plan to get Mexico to pay eventually and taxpayers paying at the start is just to get the project rolling.

No doubt this plan to get Mexico to pay is filed away next to his plan to defeat ISIS.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Bronx-Man said:
I have tried like 6 times to read this and I have no fucking idea what it means.
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"Master Communicator!" say people who don't want to admit that millions of voters picked a wholly unqualified white nationalist for president because of a bullshit embassy and email scandal and are trying to find some sense and meaning in the election.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
A lot of government funds are basically fungible so if Trump could get money from Mexico (he can't), he would be able to put $15B on the national debt to pay for the wall and then take the money from Mexico to pay off the $15B+interest and taxpayers are exactly as well off as before and this would be basically "reimbursing" taxpayers (because they wouldn't be on the hook for future interest payments from this debt).

Trump will never get the money from Mexico. Mexico has sacrificed thousands of lives in the drug war to stop drugs from getting to America. If Trump tries to shake down Mexico, the Mexican government can stop the drug war and allow heroin to fly into the United States and kill a fuckton of Trump voters.
 
C

Capella

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Trump gave a 12:30 AM interview to the NYT over the fucking Golden Globes and this loser still won't admit it and say sorry.



Fuck you, lick my asshole.

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/09/m...ss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytpolitics&smtyp=cur&_r=0
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Hmm...
”People keep saying I intended to mock the reporter's disability, as if Meryl Streep and others could read my mind, and I did no such thing," he said in the interview.
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We've all seen the video, we know what you where doing :/

”We are going to have an unbelievable, perhaps record-setting turnout for the inauguration, and there will be plenty of movie and entertainment stars," Mr. Trump said.
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Doesn't Obama hold the record for the largest turn out for inauguration?
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Keepin' It 1600 has a new website and is now called Crooked Media

https://getcrookedmedia.com/here-have-a-mission-statement-e365a663d004#.wogm19i7w

With the help of Bill Simmons and the excellent team at The Ringer, we started a podcast called Keepin' It 1600 to have a conversation about politics we couldn't find anywhere else. We brought our partisan views, but also years of experience in the White House and on winning political campaigns (except Lovett). We brought on guests who agreed with us and those who didn't — Democrats and Republicans, journalists and columnists, authors and comedians. We tried to keep the conversation substantive, funny, honest, open, and focused on the overwhelming probability that Donald Trump would lose in November.

We were a little off on that last one. But we were wrong about more than just the outcome of the election. We were wrong to focus so much on punditry instead of advocacy. We were wrong to talk more about what would happen instead of what should happen. And most of all, Hillary Clinton was wrong to not come on our podcast.
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If there's one thing we've learned from 2016, it's that there are no experts with all the answers. There is no secret plan. And there is no hero coming to save us. Anyone can help figure this out. You can do it. We can figure it out together. We can be patient and thoughtful and open to new ideas. We can challenge ourselves to be better and smarter. We can be tough on our opponents, forgiving of our allies, and we can take our country back. Or this little enterprise will fail. Either way, hope you sign up on iTunes!
Click to expand...

Not a fan of the name but excited to see the new content.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Lovett's bio is one of the first Trump impersonations in a long time to make me laugh.

Jon Lovett is a straight shooter widely respected on all sides. He earned this reputation (which is seriously fantastic, ask people) as a speechwriter for Hillary Clinton and as a presidential speechwriter in the Obama White House. Jon has written truly excellent speeches, really great, on a range of policy issues. He helped write the president’s annual remarks to the White House Correspondents Dinner. Many people say Jon is one of the funniest guys to do this. The jokes are just terrific. In the years since he’s become a really big league writer in Hollywood. He had a hit sitcom on NBC called “1600 Penn” which was cancelled by some crooked, disgusting people. Totally rigged deal. Also Jon has a great brain. He went to Williams, OK? One of the top guys. Follow the better Jon on twitter.
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idk why but I got so tired of them, especially after Trump became an increasingly serious threat, but this one made me chuckle.
 
D

daedalius

Member
Capella said:
Hmm...

We've all seen the video, we know what you where doing :/



Doesn't Obama hold the record for the largest turn out for inauguration?
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Only a truly deluded trumpette would ever believe he was doing anything other than making fun of that disabled reporter.

He is such a fucking joke
 
C

chadskin

Member
@realDonaldTrump:
Meryl Streep, one of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood, doesn't know me but attacked last night at the Golden Globes. She is a.....

What a cliffhanger lol
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 13m13 minutes ago

Rupert Murdoch is a great guy who likes me much better as a very successful candidate than he ever did as a very successful developer!

This mother fucker.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
chadskin said:
@realDonaldTrump:
Meryl Streep, one of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood, doesn't know me but attacked last night at the Golden Globes. She is a.....

What a cliffhanger lol
Click to expand...
Hamilton - overrated
Meryl Streep - overrated

I will fucking fight you orange man

Trump can only counter criticism by insulting whoever it is that's criticizing him. Can't wait for unemployment to go up and he just calls all the people who lost their jobs (who probably voted for him) losers who never deserved them in the first place.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Hamilton - overrated
Meryl Streep - overrated

I will fucking fight you orange man

Trump can only counter criticism by insulting whoever it is that's criticizing him. Can't wait for unemployment to go up and he just calls all the people who lost their jobs (who probably voted for him) losers who never deserved them in the first place.
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He'll blame the Democrats for whatever.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 1m1 minute ago

"groveling" when he totally changed a 16 year old story that he had written in order to make me look bad. Just more very dishonest media!
17 replies 3 retweets 2 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 9m9 minutes ago

Hillary flunky who lost big. For the 100th time, I never "mocked" a disabled reporter (would never do that) but simply showed him.......
1,917 replies 1,190 retweets 3,325 likes

I. Fucking. Can't. With this mother fucker.

Someone take his fucking twitter account away for the love all things sacred.
 
D

Debirudog

Member
Wilsongt said:
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 1m1 minute ago

"groveling" when he totally changed a 16 year old story that he had written in order to make me look bad. Just more very dishonest media!
17 replies 3 retweets 2 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 9m9 minutes ago

Hillary flunky who lost big. For the 100th time, I never "mocked" a disabled reporter (would never do that) but simply showed him.......
1,917 replies 1,190 retweets 3,325 likes

I. Fucking. Can't. With this mother fucker.

Someone take his fucking twitter account away for the love all things sacred.
Click to expand...

twitter has no spine.
 
A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
This is going to be a long year. While I don't want his Twitter shenanigans to become the norm, I hope by 2018 I'm no longer sighing, groaning or screaming internally about them.
 
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