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[Plinko]

Reminds me of GOP politician recently who said "You know, people should wait to go to the emergency room." His reasoning was that you should just wait to go when the dr's office is open and save money, because he said his son broke his arm on a Sunday, and they waited until Monday to save money.



he of course walked it back as a "bad example".

I have my own opinion about using the emergency room as your doctor, as I had an aunt who had health insurance and every time her child ran a fever and a runny nose she ran to the emergency room as opposed to just going to the dr's office... But, yeah.

I believe that was Michigan AG Bill Schuette who said that about his son.

 

[JP_]

Former congressional staffers wrote a guide on how to effectively resist trump/GOP in coming years

https://www.indivisibleguide.com/

 

[demon]

She still lost.

California is extremely lopsided and integral to Hillary winning the popular vote. We cannot win for the whole country on just California.

This logic never makes sense and never will. Californians are as much Americans as anyone from any other state and should be treated as such in the sole nation-wide election we have. We have congress and particularly the senate for the whole "giving small bumfuck states disproportionate representation" thing. The handwaving of the millions more votes Clinton got merely because of the states they came from is ridiculous and quite frankly a bit disturbing.

 

[kess]

So I was reading some stuff and saw that the trend(over the last few elections) for state government is that whoever owns the White House loses seats in local/state government. Hopefully Trump will provide the motivation to start making gains in state government and Congress, but I'm afraid that the extreme gerrymandering of the last 6 years is so "unpresidented" it will change the trend.

Governors and Attorney Generals are statewide races, which helps Democrats.

 

[Wilsongt]

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

Before I, or anyone, saw the classified and/or highly confidential hacking intelligence report, it was leaked out to @NBCNews. So serious!

Nope, I do believe Obama saw it on Thursday before the information was given out, you halfwit

 

[Vixdean]

TIL Healthcare = Fancy Furniture

I bet he thinks people aren't poor if they own a refrigerator as well.

I mean, this is honestly how most Republicans or conservative "thinkers" view healthcare. It's not the government's problem and expanding access to care shouldn't be part of any public policy. It's why the mythical GOP alternative or replacement to Obamacare has never been produced. It's not that they don't know how, it's that they don't care. The solution to every problem is cut taxes and deregulate so that eventually everyone can afford everything.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

This logic never makes sense and never will. Californians are as much Americans as anyone from any other state and should be treated as such in the sole nation-wide election we have. We have congress and particularly the senate for the whole "giving small bumfuck states disproportionate representation" thing. The handwaving of the millions more votes Clinton got merely because of the states they came from is ridiculous and quite frankly a bit disturbing.

It's definitely bullshit and our government design sucks but in practical terms it doesn't matter how many millions of votes California puts us ahead by if we still lose.

 

[B-Dubs]

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

Before I, or anyone, saw the classified and/or highly confidential hacking intelligence report, it was leaked out to @NBCNews. So serious!

Nope, I do believe Obama saw it on Thursday before the information was given out, you halfwit

The classified version wasn't the one leaked! Fucking dumbass Trump.

 

[TestOfTide]

Come on. Popular vote means nothing in this country. It's the placement of these voters that matters, especially in 2018, where it is setting up to be a brutally hard run for democrats.

I was talking about disappointment in terms of falling for fake news, etc. I trust nobody to care about actualities and only to listen to empty promises and lies.

Think about it this way: Trump is ALREADY going to be an UNPOPULAR president who barely won in key states even when the turnout trends were best case scenario for him (low turnout of the Obama coalition and high turnout in rural conservative areas).

Trump is EXTREMELY vulnerable because to win again he has to recreate that same kind of turnout.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

All 65 million of Hillary's votes didn't come from California

No, but a very large portion of her popular vote share that exceeded Trump's did.

That's one reason people favor keeping the electoral college - there is something like geographic groupthink that gloms a lot of individual voters onto a platform or idea, and other regions of the country don't want the groupthink of California and New York to outweigh theirs just because they happened to be the places that got the most people.

 

[B-Dubs]

No, but a very large portion of her popular vote share that exceeded Trump's did.

That's one reason people favor keeping the electoral college - there is something like geographic groupthink that gloms a lot of individual voters onto a platform or idea, and other regions of the country don't want the groupthink of California and New York to outweigh theirs just because they happened to be the places that got the most people.

The issue then becomes the voices of people in NY and Cali isn't as important as the voices of people in the Rust Belt, despite the former being more important economically (and more far populous) than the latter.

 

[Dominican Power]

https://theweek.com/cartoons/671239/editorial-cartoon-megyn-kelly-nbc-fox


These give me life.

 

[JesseEwiak]

No, but a very large portion of her popular vote share that exceeded Trump's did.

That's one reason people favor keeping the electoral college - there is something like geographic groupthink that gloms a lot of individual voters onto a platform or idea, and other regions of the country don't want the groupthink of California and New York to outweigh theirs just because they happened to be the places that got the most people.

Sure, but that doesn't make it a valid reason. I mean, sure, I have no doubt everybody in Eastern Washington would love an EC style arrangement so land could outvote the people here in Godless Seattle, but that doesn't make it right.

I mean, yes, if California didn't exist, Hillary would've lost the popular vote. By the same standard, if most of the South didn't exist, Hillary would've won in a landslide.

 

[woodland]

Does Kellyanne Conway have a GAF account?



https://thinkprogress.org/trump-campaign-wikileaks-contradictions-b7abd13d26d7#.h0jbcc1y1

Not a big PoliGAF contributor, but a reader and have become pretty into it over the past election/year. Live in SJ and it galls me that she's from this area.

 

[excelsiorlef]

No, but a very large portion of her popular vote share that exceeded Trump's did.

That's one reason people favor keeping the electoral college - there is something like geographic groupthink that gloms a lot of individual voters onto a platform or idea, and other regions of the country don't want the groupthink of California and New York to outweigh theirs just because they happened to be the places that got the most people.

It is so much better that the smaller minority of people who don't believe in climate change, minority rights and women;s rights get to be more represented and inflict their will on the larger majority that do.

I'm sure it's no coincidence that even when in the numerical minority, the white rust belt voters get to act as the tyranny of the majority and inflict their will on the minority heavy populations of larger cities.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

TIL Healthcare = Fancy Furniture

I bet he thinks people aren't poor if they own a refrigerator as well.

Fuck Ben Shapiro.

Definitely one of the biggest pieces of garbage. He is one of those pieces of shit that I couldn't give two shits about when anti-semites/Neo-nazis target him.

Asshole deserves it.

 

[Diablos]

Think about it this way: Trump is ALREADY going to be an UNPOPULAR president who barely won in key states even when the turnout trends were best case scenario for him (low turnout of the Obama coalition and high turnout in rural conservative areas).

Trump is EXTREMELY vulnerable because to win again he has to recreate that same kind of turnout.

What sucks is we're gonna get a conservative SCOTUS, FinReg gone, ACA destruction and a fucked up foreign policy. Oh and if a Dem wins in 2020 many EO's and regulations will be non starters if Ryan gets his way. Bawwww.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

No, but a very large portion of her popular vote share that exceeded Trump's did.

That's one reason people favor keeping the electoral college - there is something like geographic groupthink that gloms a lot of individual voters onto a platform or idea, and other regions of the country don't want the groupthink of California and New York to outweigh theirs just because they happened to be the places that got the most people.

I mean, 90% of Appalachia voted for Trump and that made up for Hillary's margin in California. Hillary won the popular vote while losing the EC because the Midwest was closer for Republicans than the Sunbelt was for Democrats.

 

[TestOfTide]

What sucks is we're gonna get a conservative SCOTUS, FinReg gone, ACA destruction and a fucked up foreign policy. Oh and if a Dem wins in 2020 many EO's and regulations will be non starters if Ryan gets his way. Bawwww.

We already had a conservative SCOTUS, the GOP is too scared to actually repeal the ACA, and Trump doesn't have enough votes in the Senate to approve of pro-Russia FP.

 

[royalan]

No, but a very large portion of her popular vote share that exceeded Trump's did.

That's one reason people favor keeping the electoral college - there is something like geographic groupthink that gloms a lot of individual voters onto a platform or idea, and other regions of the country don't want the groupthink of California and New York to outweigh theirs just because they happened to be the places that got the most people.

But the electoral college is promoting the same thing, just in reverse.

The more populous coastal regions are being underrepresented in favor of the less populous, more culturally monolithic Southern and Midwest states.

 

[Supast4r]

This logic never makes sense and never will. Californians are as much Americans as anyone from any other state and should be treated as such in the sole nation-wide election we have. We have congress and particularly the senate for the whole "giving small bumfuck states disproportionate representation" thing. The handwaving of the millions more votes Clinton got merely because of the states they came from is ridiculous and quite frankly a bit disturbing.

I heavily agree with this. Why should small states hold us in hostage in elections? Did any small state issues even get addressed this election or any election?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I mean, there's some chance that Texas goes 50/50 while the Rust Belt slips to the GOP and then Texas is the only state that matters in the election.

And that's electoral imperialism.

 

[royalan]

We already had a conservative SCOTUS, the GOP is too scared to actually repeal the ACA, and Trump doesn't have enough votes in the Senate to approve of pro-Russia FP.

I don't disagree, and this isn't really aimed at you, but when I think about why Republicans stay so mobilized and so on point with their messaging vs. Democrats, this reminds me of why. Republicans don't do silver-lining. Shit is bad, and that's it.

Democrats undercut their own message when they constantly follow up how the Republicans are going to wreck the country with "...but really, everything is going to be ok in the end, and Republicans can't REALLY do what they say they're going to do." It's no wonder liberals routinely don't realize the stakes, we do a good job of downplaying them ourselves.

Republicans are about to do a shit-ton of horrible things, and we should be terrified. Actually, Diablos' reaction is the right one to have. Looking back on this election, it kinda always was.

 

[Supast4r]

She still lost.

California is extremely lopsided and integral to Hillary winning the popular vote. We cannot win for the whole country on just California.

So Californians are considered less Americans than random people in Michigan?

 

[Debirudog]

Well, liberals never really want to embrace the worst of a scenario because it feels like shit. I do too.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Its just a matter of time when Texas becomes a swing state like Florida. I live down here and the only reason they go GOP is probably because older people are the ones that vote.

 

[Plinko]

Think about it this way: Trump is ALREADY going to be an UNPOPULAR president who barely won in key states even when the turnout trends were best case scenario for him (low turnout of the Obama coalition and high turnout in rural conservative areas).

Trump is EXTREMELY vulnerable because to win again he has to recreate that same kind of turnout.

I was mainly referring to House/Senate races in 2018, though.

You are right about 2020.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Its just a matter of time when Texas becomes a swing state like Florida. I live down here and the only reason they go GOP is probably because older people are the ones that vote.

I do wonder if a situation where literally the only states that matter are Texas, NC, and Georgia would cause the other states to be more interested in getting rid of the electoral college.

 

[Wilsongt]

Washington (CNN)President-elect Donald Trump is breaking from 11 presidents' worth of tradition and benching Charles Brotman.

The 89-year-old Brotman -- once the voice of the Washington Senators baseball team -- has announced every inauguration parade since Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1957.
He told WJLA he was "heartbroken" and "destroyed" by the decision at first.

"I've been doing this for 60 years," he told the Washington ABC affiliate.
In his place, the Trump team has tapped Steve Ray, a 58-year-old Washington-based freelance announcer who has worked with the MLB's Washington Nationals and for local radio stations.

I wonder how much money Steve Ray gave to Trump. This seems petty as all hell.

 

[Debirudog]

Its just a matter of time when Texas becomes a swing state like Florida. I live down here and the only reason they go GOP is probably because older people are the ones that vote.

Texas could go blue if it wasn't for GOP mucking up with their stupid voting laws...

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So Californians are considered less Americans than random people in Michigan?

Is that what I said?

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Think about it this way: Trump is ALREADY going to be an UNPOPULAR president who barely won in key states even when the turnout trends were best case scenario for him (low turnout of the Obama coalition and high turnout in rural conservative areas).

Trump is EXTREMELY vulnerable because to win again he has to recreate that same kind of turnout.

Dunno. So much of the race boiled down to "Trump is unprepared and a catastrophic candidate who will destroy xyz." Similar to strategies used against Obama and Clinton. What if Trump turns out to be a normal president - not saying good, but normally decent, average, meh, whatever. What if the economy continues to grow - barring some insane trade war or recession, it's hard to see the economy tanking immediately after four years of tax cuts and increased business loans for instance.

Point being if people look around in four years and say "hey the world didn't end, and in fact the world is pretty good for my (white) ass" why wouldn't Trump be well positioned to win again. Not to mention the fact that if he's even just semi competent he should be able to raise a billion dollars in 2020.

Winning once gives you a good shot at winning again. Especially with democrats lacking a great candidate to unify the party. I'm not saying that Trump is going to win, I'm just saying we shouldn't assume he'll be perceived as a disaster by most of the country. A lot of republicans thought Clinton and Obama had no shot at re-election due to "disastrous" first terms too.

 

[Debirudog]

Except Bill and Obama have a brain with actual cabinet members who knew how to ran a country...Not these corporate sharks.

 

[mo60]

Except Bill and Obama have a brain with actual cabinet members who knew how to ran a country...Not these corporate sharks.

And with the way trump's administration is designed it's likely the Trump administration does something corrupt and awful before the 2020 or 2024 election.

 

[RastaMentality]

If social rights are up in flames everywhere but the economy is doing fine, white people will have no issue voting for him again.

 

[Retromelon]

I wonder how much money Steve Ray gave to Trump. This seems petty as all hell.

that guy remembers eisenhower. imagine how crazy it is to have witnessed life back then firsthand, and then live to see what america's become

 

[Wilsongt]

that guy remembers eisenhower. imagine how crazy it is to have witnessed life back then firsthand, and then live to see what america's become

At least he lived long enough to see one of the best presidents and then witness the fall of the country.

If social rights are up in flames everywhere but the economy is doing fine, white people will have no issue voting for him again.

As long as their are gays marrying, transgendered individuals using public restrooms,babies being aborted, black and brown people doing well with jobs, welfare queens and food stamp users who are black, Trump will have no problem getting votes.

 

[Retromelon]

like, back then lenny bruce was prosecuted for obscenity and now our president is the grab 'er by the pussy guy

at least we got to elect a black guy tho

 

[AntraxSuicide]

It's definitely bullshit and our government design sucks but in practical terms it doesn't matter how many millions of votes California puts us ahead by if we still lose.

That's not the point. These conversations always go like this:
Person A: Everything is awful because the GOP controls so much, and we've lost traditional Democratic regions!
Person B: Well actually there's a lot of historical evidence that opposition parties do well.
Person A: Yeah, but I doubt have any faith in this country since they all picked Trump.
Person B: Well actually they didn't. The majority of voting Americans didn't vote for Trump.
Person A: That doesn't matter, it was all in California. We'll never get back in the Rust Belt!

And now we're back at the top. There are two forms of whining: we don't have federal power and Americans suck. The former puts history on our side. The latter is obviously not true given the popular vote.

If more people wanna bitch all day, at least be accurate about it.

 

[royalan]

If social rights are up in flames everywhere but the economy is doing fine, white people will have no issue voting for him again.

Let's take it a step further.

If the country as a whole is worse off than it was when he took office, but white people are doing just a bit better than everyone else, they will have no problem voting for him again.

We do ourselves no favors by counting on Republicans to screw up. The game-plan has to take into account the possibility that everyone who voted for Trump votes for him again, for whatever reason.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The scariest thing is that Trump fucks everyone but white people.

Shit all he has to do is just maintain the current status quo and the same people who think Obama destroyed the economy will praise Trumo for saving it.

 

[Tamanon]

Eh, many of his decisions will fuck over large amounts of white people, his poorer supporters in particular.

 

[Wilsongt]

The scariest thing is that Trump fucks everyone but white people.

Shit all he has to do is just maintain the current status quo and the same people who think Obama destroyed the economy will praise Trumo for saving it.

Trump fucks everyone except rich, white people.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Trump fucks everyone except rich, white people.

Sorry I meant would be.

If he finds a way to not fuck white folk or appear to not be doing so.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Eh, many of his decisions will fuck over large amounts of white people, his poorer supporters in particular.

Without serious national discussion about why rural America sucks, no one can help those people either. Even if Trump was a normal Republican, these people are asking for the moon and they'll never get it.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Eh, many of his decisions will fuck over large amounts of white people, his poorer supporters in particular.

Didn't stop them from supporting Reagan and W. He's good with his base as long as he doesn't pass an "amnesty" immigration bill or something. I'm not convinced even mass corruption will matter to the base. They believe he's on their side on what matters (disliking brown people, supporting guns, etc) that they'll let other shit slide.

Corruption, stupidity, etc will matter to those voters in the "middle" who sided with Trump over Hillary. If Trump loses it'll be due to shifts there. Voters who disliked both candidates and ultimately sided with Trump. Plus dems bringing out their base. Trump is going to bring the GOP base out.

 

[Plinko]

Didn't stop them from supporting Reagan and W. He's good with his base as long as he doesn't pass an "amnesty" immigration bill or something. I'm not convinced even mass corruption will matter to the base. They believe he's on their side on what matters (disliking brown people, supporting guns, etc) that they'll let other shit slide.

Corruption, stupidity, etc will matter to those voters in the "middle" who sided with Trump over Hillary. If Trump loses it'll be due to shifts there. Voters who disliked both candidates and ultimately sided with Trump. Plus dems bringing out their base. Trump is going to bring the GOP base out.

This. Those are the voters that will swing it back. GOP voting base will vote for this guy no matter what.

Also, as for the previous discussion, I'm white and my taxes go UP under his tax plan. It's him screwing over lower- and middle-income people.

 

[Abinash117]

Dunno. So much of the race boiled down to "Trump is unprepared and a catastrophic candidate who will destroy xyz." Similar to strategies used against Obama and Clinton. What if Trump turns out to be a normal president - not saying good, but normally decent, average, meh, whatever. What if the economy continues to grow - barring some insane trade war or recession, it's hard to see the economy tanking immediately after four years of tax cuts and increased business loans for instance.

Point being if people look around in four years and say "hey the world didn't end, and in fact the world is pretty good for my (white) ass" why wouldn't Trump be well positioned to win again. Not to mention the fact that if he's even just semi competent he should be able to raise a billion dollars in 2020.

Winning once gives you a good shot at winning again. Especially with democrats lacking a great candidate to unify the party. I'm not saying that Trump is going to win, I'm just saying we shouldn't assume he'll be perceived as a disaster by most of the country. A lot of republicans thought Clinton and Obama had no shot at re-election due to "disastrous" first terms too.

A lot of people voted for Trump for change and bring back jobs. Being a 'normal' could mean nothing changing. If trends continue that means Trump voters still won't fell the benefits.

Imo Trump and the GOP is going to make the problems those people face much worse.

 

[B-Dubs]

A lot of people voted for Trump for change and bring back jobs. Being a 'normal' could mean nothing changing. If trends continue that means Trump voters still won't fell the benefits.

Imo Trump and the GOP is going to make the problems those people face much worse.

The problem is perception is more important than reality and Trump is the consummate con-man. He's going to keep pulling shit like the Carrier deal and taking credit for things like the ethics office save with well timed tweets.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The idea that you could assume anything about the very next day, let alone four years from now is a waste of time.