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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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Cybit

FGC Waterboy
I don't think it's so much that "they'll be considered white", racially, as it is that the general effect of whiteness, i.e. relative economic prosperity, freedom from being born into and remaining largely within extreme poverty, freedom from having your rights severely curbed by the legal system, freedom from being discriminated against due to negative stereotyping such that a white man has to be jailed to have as hard of a time finding a decent job as a law-abiding, college-educated member of your race, etc. will naturally extend themselves to segments of the population that are not currently white as more of them become affluent and integrated into the mainstream of American society. Which I think probably will happen for Asians, because while there are certain stereotypes that surround them, they tend to be somewhat positive, at least in terms of getting hired and gaining acceptance (i.e. they work hard, are good at math and science, are conformist and won't rock the boat). And even the negative ones - that they're weird, that they're depressive and anxious, that they're submissive - probably would not be as negative as what black people currently experience, allowing them (the negative stereotypes) to be curbed over time. Basically, what makes racism so pervasive and insidious is that while every new group experiences some negative discrimination when they arrive, they eventually integrate into the mechanisms of white supremacy and find their interests opposed to whoever are still considered "people of color", and while you can probably make a strong case that a common European ancestry is what allowed that to happen for previous groups, the "post-racial, post-Obama" society will likely see such assimilation happen upon more economic lines because of the taboo that now exists on open racism and prejudice. Joey Smith and Jin Park may not have a common ancestry, but if it's equally likely that both were raised in cultures wherein they didn't experience paycheck-to-paycheck poverty, both have decently well-connected families who can help them gain their footing and life, and didn't have run-ins with individual and systemic discrimination from an early age, they might well learn to commiserate about "Dindus" and "thugs" on reddit, together.

Large portions of East Asians are born into poverty that surpasses that of any other racial group; or that they immigrate to the country with wealth and connections far less than that of any native-born American, black or otherwise. The majority of Asians in this country in the future still aren't going to be born here - they're going to continue to be direct immigrants. (assuming current trends hold, which is a dangerous assumption all together, but without that trend holding, the entire demographic change looks dramatically different, and the premise of the question becomes moot) That's the part people don't quite get when they look at the demographic boom.

Part of the reason the poverty is obscured is that they won't break out Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese immigrants from Hmong, Thai, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Indonesian, etc immigrants. That's why you won't have that acclimation - because you're going to have two very distinct groups of Asians in this country. (both economically and culturally) Also; at some point, the US is going to figure out that most of the wealth that was taken from the middle class here ended up creating the modern middle class in India and China, and there's going to be hella resentment. (Alternatively, be Chinese and try to get a security clearance in this country)

EDIT: The general difference I think is confusing different European ethnicities (which would be closer to the differences between states in the US given an extra few centuries or millenia of development) and different asian ethnicities. Add in some historical weirdness of bedfellows (thanks WWI and WWII!), and some groups that historically might not have got along were forced to get along, and that led to a comfort level that WWII actually made worse in East Asia (see Japan, Korea, China, India). I also think the US population was far more likely to integrate when the country had a collective philosophy of being the underdog (compared to Europe) - I don't know if we work that well together when we're on top (see the rapid polarization of the country post Cold War).
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Just trying to show how much more relevant Queen Jepsen is to Floprina.




It would be wise of them to support Sanders if he clearly wins the delegate count by popular vote. If they stick to Clinton even then...I think we all know how destructive for the party that would be.

I agree. If Sanders wins the popular vote by even 1 person, the super delegates probably should change.

BUT i'm glad they probably won't because I need ma kween
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
I agree. If Sanders wins the popular vote by even 1 person, the super delegates probably should change.

BUT i'm glad they probably won't because I need ma kween

I disagree. That'd be a virtual tie and they should just coin flip for each super delegate.
 

Tesseract

Banned
Just trying to show how much more relevant Queen Jepsen is to Floprina.




It would be wise of them to support Sanders if he clearly wins the delegate count by popular vote. If they stick to Clinton even then...I think we all know how destructive for the party that would be.

if that happens, good lord. the whole system is coming down.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Carly Fiorina ambushed me coming out of a deli today with 15 kids because she doesn't like ham and cheese.
 

Iolo

Member
I agree. If Sanders wins the popular vote by even 1 person, the super delegates probably should change.

does that include caucuses that don't decide by popular vote, or should we say it's a virtual tie if Bernie is only 3 points behind at the end, and send Hillary home
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
does that include caucuses that don't decide by popular vote, or should we say it's a virtual tie if Bernie is only 3 points behind at the end, and send Hillary home

Well I should get to decide because I am fabulous and have already maxed out donations to Hillary from me and all of my 900 friends that bought halo 5 digitally.
 
Ugh.. why do we want our elderly working again?

It's mostly about disincentives. Seniors working receive both a reduction in benefits from social security and have to pay payroll taxes. This would imply that for every additional dollar worked, they aren't actually making much.

So their solution is to get rid of the payroll tax on seniors. Idk. I disagree, but that's from like a philosophical standpoint. Like seniors shouldn't be working. If they're working social security benefits should be raised so they don't have to.

But it's not a horrible plan. It's actually sound economics. It would have the effect that they say it do. It would compel seniors to work more and take more home.

It's just that it's more than an economic question. More than a positive economics one at least. It's a normative economics question. It makes us reflect on what we want as a society.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I guess I can kinda see what they are thinking.
 

daedalius

Member
RIP Sanders after Super Tuesday. Clinton is at 63% though. And I guuueeeeeess Sanders can be rounded up to 22%.

LOL @ Cruz and Rubio spoiling each other, allowing Trump to win.

My Facebook feed just keeps blowing up with "SANDERS IS NOW TIED WITH HILLARY NATIONWIDE THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING"

Where are they getting that from?
 

Iolo

Member
My Facebook feed just keeps blowing up with "SANDERS IS NOW TIED WITH HILLARY NATIONWIDE THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING"

Where are they getting that from?

one thing's for sure: twitter's going to look the same way next week after the algorithmic feed goes into effect. enjoy!!
 

NeoXChaos

Member
Ipsos / Reid actually has a similar poll out, but random surges like this between IA and NH aren't uncommon. If Sanders is still close by late Feb I'll start to worry.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSMTZSAPEC253J02S1

garbage

Harry Enten ‏@ForecasterEnten 4h4 hours ago
One hell of an LV screen in the Ipsos poll. Adult Dems on the left, LV Dems on the right in its tracking poll.

Greg Dworkin ‏@DemFromCT 3h3 hours ago
@SeanTrende why are they asking what republicans think? If you set screen to likely voter in D primary, huge Clinton lead.
Sean T at RCP ‏@SeanTrende 3h3 hours ago
@DemFromCT damn Internet polls.

@DemFromCT Enten confirms. Good enuf for me.

Harry Enten ‏@ForecasterEnten 3h3 hours ago
@seantrende @demfromct All I know is the LV Dems and adult Dems are VERY different. Not sure what they are doing to cause that.

Greg Dworkin ‏@DemFromCT 3h3 hours ago
@SeanTrende if you check, it's an an RV all voter poll. Not a vote in D primary poll. I don't understand it, or I got it wrong.

CafKlXDUYAAwwWB.png
 

jtb

Banned
is there any chance that Kasich beats Rubio and finishes 2nd in NH? or, even better, that Jeb! can pull it off? I'm just hoping that the establishment candidates are bitter (and motivated) enough to keep fracturing the vote through at least South Carolina.
 
Jeb will keep going until he proves Rubio is gay or until Jeb breaks down crying on live television after bullying from Trump. Too much money to waste to drop out now.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
is there any chance that Kasich beats Rubio and finishes 2nd in NH? or, even better, that Jeb! can pull it off? I'm just hoping that the establishment candidates are bitter (and motivated) enough to keep fracturing the vote through at least South Carolina.

I fear a quick consolidation to Rubio after SC. Cruz has no chance at the more moderate states after March 1st. Trump has to win NH+SC+a handful of SEC states as well as hoping the field stays fractured long enough to win. Trump can win a 3-4 person race. He cannot win a 2 person race between him and Rubio.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I fear a quick consolidation to Rubio after SC. Cruz has no chance at the more moderate states after March 1st. Trump has to win NH+SC+a handful of SEC states as well as hoping the field stays fractured long enough to win. Trump can win a 3-4 person race. He cannot win a 2 person race between him and Rubio.

I'm not so sure, it's obviously going to vary by state. But, why would Cruz supporters go to Rubio more then Trump?
 

Kyosaiga

Banned
So, sort of Off-Topic, but would it be possible for future PoliGAF threads to have our regular members PSN IDs and Gamer Tags, for those who want to start party chats on politics or just have some good ol' MP or Co-Op fun.
 

Diablos

Member
I would say that it's not a certainty that current Bernie Sanders fans don't turn into Dixiecrats as they get promoted at work.

Young men like Socialism, but they also think sexism doesn't exist anymore and are just as racist as their parents and are more supportive of banning all abortions than their parents. Economic issues may be their priority right now, but who knows how economic vs. social issues as their priority will progress as their careers evolve.

Their atheism may keep them away from the Republican party though.

It's one of those issues when there's a trend currently, but that trend is not inevitable because actors can change things. Like how "demographic apocalypse" will probably be avoided by Republicans now that East Asians are "becoming white" like the Irish and Jews became white in the past and how mixed white and non-white Hispanic children are identifying as white.
What are you saying exactly
 

jtb

Banned
I fear a quick consolidation to Rubio after SC. Cruz has no chance at the more moderate states after March 1st. Trump has to win NH+SC+a handful of SEC states as well as hoping the field stays fractured long enough to win. Trump can win a 3-4 person race. He cannot win a 2 person race between him and Rubio.

You and me both. But if Rubio can only manage to scrape together, say... 15% in NH for a second place finish, I wonder if it is going to be a hard sell for everyone else to just fall in line after such a weak showing. I guess Kasich will definitely drop out if he doesn't finish at least 2nd because he has no money and Christie will too, but does Christie even register in the polls?

I guess this does end with a Rubio coronation after all, doesn't it. Hm.

Save us Jeb...
 

NeoXChaos

Member
You and me both. But if Rubio can only manage to scrape together, say... 15% in NH for a second place finish, I wonder if it is going to be a hard sell for everyone else to just fall in line after such a weak showing. I guess Kasich will definitely drop out if he doesn't finish at least 2nd because he has no money and Christie will too, but does Christie even register in the polls?

I guess this does end with a Rubio coronation after all, doesn't it. Hm.

Save us Jeb...

you want Jeb staying in till Florida making it a Jeb, Rubio, Trump and Cruz race. Ideally NH, SC and NV goes Trump/Cruz/Trump or Trump/Trump/Trump and they split the SEC states. It starves Rubio momentum into March 8th and March 15th states. Jeb prevents Rubio from winning FL and OH allowing Trump or Cruz to slip through.
 

Diablos

Member
You and me both. But if Rubio can only manage to scrape together, say... 15% in NH for a second place finish, I wonder if it is going to be a hard sell for everyone else to just fall in line after such a weak showing. I guess Kasich will definitely drop out if he doesn't finish at least 2nd because he has no money and Christie will too, but does Christie even register in the polls?

I guess this does end with a Rubio coronation after all, doesn't it. Hm.

Save us Jeb...
I always figured if there's a dark establishment horse it would be Rubio. Seems to be shaping up that way, for now. He's the only one who really scares me.

Jeb is not going to save anyone. Stick a fork in him, he's done.

It's not a guarantee that the Democrats will elect a Socialist in the future even though their young generation are Socialists because the young Socialists could be swayed by social issues.
I see.

I think it'd be funny if in 2016 Diablos became aggressively confident about Dems' chances.

You know, just to shake things up a bit.
Oh hey.

No, I'm not going to play that part. Truthfully I am trying to stay as calm as possible because it really does seem like the Democrats could blow it this time. Sanders is not electable and Rubio is a sleeping giant politically speaking.
 

jtb

Banned
Jeb has already spent, what, 20m exclusively on attacking Rubio? I'd be really disappointed if he didn't finish off this political murder-suicide once and for all.

is it impossible for Rubio to file for senate re-election at this point?
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
For fucks sakes Hilary

I know, it's so outlandish. Here is the full section of the article:

But Clinton offered a message that the collected plutocrats found reassuring, according to accounts offered by several attendees, declaring that the banker-bashing so popular within both political parties was unproductive and indeed foolish. Striking a soothing note on the global financial crisis, she told the audience, in effect: We all got into this mess together, and we’re all going to have to work together to get out of it. What the bankers heard her to say was just what they would hope for from a prospective presidential candidate: Beating up the finance industry isn’t going to improve the economy—it needs to stop.

Also, David Sirota has a fucking agenda holy shit.
The summary he posted is NOTHING like the article posted.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician

That's not...as bad as it could have been, but damn its not good.

I don't think its technically wrong, in the sense that people who want to punish banks as institutions (as opposed to specific criminal charges for executives) seem more interested in revenge than in determining what's the most functional course of action going forward but...ouch
 

dramatis

Member
Maybe Trump can smack Rubio instead of Jeb like he usually does?

While it's amusing that Trump and Cruz are having a petty fight, I'd rather they cannibalize Rubio's share.
 
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