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[hawk2025]

It's clear that so many people have already come to their conclusions; They are already doing emotional hedging:

"I believe she will be indicted. If not, I bet someone was paid off"


I can't count the amount of times I've read variations of this.

So what is the FBI investigating then?

Petraus, Brezler, and Deutch are similar scenarios.

All three got pegged, for less egregious infractions.

What? You're conflating completely different cases, and calling them less egregious!

 

[Y2Kev]

So what is the FBI investigating then?

Petraus, Brezler, and Deutch are similar scenarios.

All three got pegged.

This is my last post on this, but suffice it to say this post is straight out of the conservative media borg. Petraeus knowingly handed over classified materials to his biographer. Again, there is no evidence Clinton knowingly transmitted classified information through her private email server.

Do you understand that Petraeus admitted to delivering classified documents to a private residence? That he admitted to giving his biographer highly classified "black books"? That he pled guilty to unlawfully and knowingly moving classified materials with "intent to retain such documents"?

These are not similar cases and you are not making sense.

edit: Now with links:

Private residence: https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...chments/2015/03/03/petraeus-factual-basis.pdf
Black books: http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2015/07/31/41095/fnc-kf-20150731-herridgehrcclassified
Pled guilty: https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...s/2015/03/03/petraeus-bill-of-information.pdf

All Hillary has done is kill Ben Ghazi.

 

[Holmes]

the FBI's gonna indict me, for being a bad poster

Finally!

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

All Hillary has done is kill Ben Ghazi.

I heard she killed Dr. Ben with a spatula

 

[B-Dubs]

So what is the FBI investigating then?

Petraus, Brezler, and Deutch are similar scenarios.

All three got pegged, for less egregious infractions.

Those aren't similar cases at all, they're completely different.

 

[Paskil]

I heard she killed Dr. Ben with a spatula

It's a good thing Carson dropped. She wouldn't hesitate to kill another Ben.

 

[Holmes]

Clinton/Forma 2016

My husband got his ballot. Voted for Sanders but I got to blacken the oval beside Kamala Harris' name. Took me a while to even find Sanchez's name. covermouth.gif

 

[Godslay]

This is my last post on this, but suffice it to say this post is straight out of the conservative media borg. Petraeus knowingly handed over classified materials to his biographer. Again, there is no evidence Clinton knowingly transmitted classified information through her private email server.

Do you understand that Petraeus admitted to delivering classified documents to a private residence? That he admitted to giving his biographer highly classified "black books"? That he pled guilty to unlawfully and knowingly moving classified materials with "intent to retain such documents"?

These are not similar cases and you are not making sense.

edit: Now with links:

Private residence: https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...chments/2015/03/03/petraeus-factual-basis.pdf
Black books: http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2015/07/31/41095/fnc-kf-20150731-herridgehrcclassified
Pled guilty: https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...s/2015/03/03/petraeus-bill-of-information.pdf

All Hillary has done is kill Ben Ghazi.

I just feel like too many people are brushing this off as nothing. You can pass it off as some grand conservative smear scheme, but I'm not buying it.

People have gotten pegged for lesser infractions when dealing with classified information. It's serious business. Not a hurdur I didn't know it was classified. That excuse doesn't fly.

Knowing or unknowingly it is against the law to store classified information on a private server, in addition to the fact that some communications are born classified. It has also been shown that there were top secret documents on there.

Each to their own, but I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up more than it has. I guess I'll leave it at that, but it's a cause for concern in my eyes.

 

[B-Dubs]

Except classified information wasn't stored or transmitted through the server. If it was we'd all be right there with you.

 

[Jack Remington]

No one has gotten pegged on a lesser infraction, because the situations aren't remotely comparable.

Some warehouse grunt could never "do what Hillary did" because that warehouse grunt isn't the secretary of state.

Except classified information wasn't stored or transmitted through the server. If it was we'd all be right there with you.

Nah, I still wouldn't care. There is absolutely no email-related crime that could make me vote Republican this election. She could have emailed terrabytes of satellite feeds to North Korea, and I'd still vote Clinton over Trump. Or Cruz, Rubio, etc.

 

[Paskil]

Hillary ain't going to get indicted cause she'll just use her vagina to shake off the charges. Speaking of, just got this email...

I never ordered a woman card because I'm not a woman. What the hell.

 

[metalslimer]

Also the logic of why is the FBI investigating if she didn't do anything wrong is amusing from so called liberals

 

[Holmes]

Tom Torlakson's wife is running for Assembly here... I don't even think I've seen any signs for her.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Except classified information wasn't stored or transmitted through the server. If it was we'd all be right there with you.

I think this is the thing right here. The information was never classified when it was sent to her. They're retroactively classifying stuff. If it should have been classified, it's really not her responsibility anyway to hand check every single email that comes to her to double check the work of other responsible federal agencies. That's bonkers.

Btw, can we stop talking about Clinton getting pegged? It's getting me hot and bothered.

 

[Y2Kev]

I just feel like too many people are brushing this off as nothing. You can pass it off as some grand conservative smear scheme, but I'm not buying it.

People have gotten pegged for lesser infractions when dealing with classified information. It's serious business. Not a hurdur I didn't know it was classified. That excuse doesn't fly.

Knowing or unknowingly it is against the law to store classified information on a private server, in addition to the fact that some communications are born classified. It has also been shown that there were top secret documents on there.

Each to their own, but I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up more than it has. I guess I'll leave it at that, but it's a cause for concern in my eyes.

OK I am breaking my own rule here but you are just flat wrong on the facts.

Here's an article in the National Review just because I'm feeling charitable on sources:

The federal statute on mishandling classified information makes it a crime to “knowingly remove[] [classified] documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location.”

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...mails-are-national-security-risk-nathan-sales

For someone so precise with words, you just added "or unknowingly" without much care, really.

And no, none of the examples you cited are "lesser infractions." I think this has to be on my end because the examples you stated are basically people like literally taking information and giving it to private citizens!

 

[Trouble]

I never ordered a woman card because I'm not a woman. What the hell.

You are now! Queen has spoken!

 

[B-Dubs]

Nah, I still wouldn't care. There is absolutely no email-related crime that could make me vote Republican this election. She could have emailed terrabytes of satellite feeds to North Korea, and I'd still vote Clinton over Trump. Or Cruz, Rubio, etc.

I'm not saying we'd vote republican, just that there'd be more reservations on her around here.

I think this is the thing right here. The information was never classified when it was sent to her. They're retroactively classifying stuff. If it should have been classified, it's really not her responsibility anyway to hand check every single email that comes to her to double check the work of other responsible federal agencies. That's bonkers.

Pretty much. Citing retroactive classification is bullshit.

Also the logic of why is the FBI investigating if she didn't do anything wrong is amusing from so called liberals

How so?

 

[pigeon]

Knowing or unknowingly it is against the law to store classified information on a private server, in addition to the fact that some communications are born classified. It has also been shown that there were top secret documents on there.

It is pretty well-established at this point that nothing on the server was classified at the time that it was stored on the server. Some documents have been classified since then, apparently, and apparently the Inspectors General have said that maybe some stuff should have been classified at the time. But none of it was actually classified, so none of it was illegal to store.

Each to their own, but I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up more than it has. I guess I'll leave it at that, but it's a cause for concern in my eyes.

My primary question for people with this particular bugaboo, I think, is if this were really such a serious and potentially career-ending issue, why would any of the huge number of other politicians in the DNC up to and including Barack Obama continue supporting Hillary as the next Democratic nominee? None of them have any incentive to support a candidate that is going to get indicted and put in jail. This scandal is, what, two years old? Three? Why wouldn't they have jumped ship to Biden or whoever way before now?

This is my last post on this, but suffice it to say this post is straight out of the conservative media borg. Petraeus knowingly handed over classified materials to his biographer. Again, there is no evidence Clinton knowingly transmitted classified information through her private email server.

Do you understand that Petraeus admitted to delivering classified documents to a private residence? That he admitted to giving his biographer highly classified "black books"? That he pled guilty to unlawfully and knowingly moving classified materials with "intent to retain such documents"?

These are not similar cases and you are not making sense.

edit: Now with links:

Private residence: https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...chments/2015/03/03/petraeus-factual-basis.pdf
Black books: http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2015/07/31/41095/fnc-kf-20150731-herridgehrcclassified
Pled guilty: https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau...s/2015/03/03/petraeus-bill-of-information.pdf

All Hillary has done is kill Ben Ghazi.

Where did this detailed and exact post come from and why are you so knowledgeable and accurate about General Petraeus's security violation?

YOU'RE FREAKING ME OUT KEV

 

[Jack Remington]

Also the logic of why is the FBI investigating if she didn't do anything wrong is amusing from so called liberals

Especially the ones yelling about how Bill Clinton's crime bill increased the prison population. Then they basically masturbate about their political opponent getting a perp-walk. They want a political opponent imprisoned because their guy can't win.

 

[metalslimer]

I think this is the thing right here. The information was never classified when it was sent to her. They're retroactively classifying stuff. If it should have been classified, it's really not her responsibility anyway to hand check every single email that comes to her to double check the work of other responsible federal agencies. That's bonkers.

Combine this with the fact that it was perfectly legally (although technologically stupid) for her to have the private email server at that point than unless they can find some smoking gun this isn't much of anything.

 

[Y2Kev]

It is pretty well-established at this point that nothing on the server was classified at the time that it was stored on the server. Some documents have been classified since then, apparently, and apparently the Inspectors General have said that maybe some stuff should have been classified at the time. But none of it was actually classified, so none of it was illegal to store.



My primary question for people with this particular bugaboo, I think, is if this were really such a serious and potentially career-ending issue, why would any of the huge number of other politicians in the DNC up to and including Barack Obama continue supporting Hillary as the next Democratic nominee? None of them have any incentive to support a candidate that is going to get indicted and put in jail. This scandal is, what, two years old? Three? Why wouldn't they have jumped ship to Biden or whoever way before now?



Where did this detailed and exact post come from and why are you so knowledgeable and accurate about General Petraeus's security violation?

YOU'RE FREAKING ME OUT KEV

I did a lot of research on this before I cast my lot in with Hillary. I won't support a "criminal." Plus whenever the conservative media says something basically in a 100% consistent message, I check it out because it has to be bullshit.

I think what she did was pretty stupid but I think it's more "Hillary thinks she's a special old lady" more than any attempt to defraud the state.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Joking aside, this election cycle taught me many so called progressives are actually pretty racist as well.

I think this election has shown there are plenty of racist self identified liberals.

It goes without saying that one ideology does not have a monopoly on any one negative trait. However, I do understand the reasoning behind the disclaimer.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Kev, what's the rule you just broke?

 

[Y2Kev]

Kev, what's the rule you just broke?

I said that was my last post!

Edit: On liberal racism. I think it's dressed up differently but is undoubtedly in liberalism. My great aunt, who I am pretty sure was a lesbian because she died a spinster and never dated ever, was basically Susan B. Anthony II but used to walk around and hand out $1 bills to brown people because she felt bad for them.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I said that was my last post!

The thing about arguing with people on the internet is that you're never done.

 

[Godslay]

Except classified information wasn't stored or transmitted through the server. If it was we'd all be right there with you.

It is pretty well-established at this point that nothing on the server was classified at the time that it was stored on the server. Some documents have been classified since then, apparently, and apparently the Inspectors General have said that maybe some stuff should have been classified at the time. But none of it was actually classified, so none of it was illegal to store.

That's not the case. They have at least 22 emails that were classified. Some top secret or part of special access programs. Not knowing they were classified isn't an excuse, because like I said before some emails/topics are inherently classified and are born as such.

That also doesn't account for the Guccifer emails (if they pan out to be true), and the missing emails from her IT person.

No one has gotten pegged on a lesser infraction, because the situations aren't remotely comparable.

Some warehouse grunt could never "do what Hillary did" because that warehouse grunt isn't the secretary of state.

Whatever you have to tell yourself I guess?

 

[Y2Kev]

help

 

[Kangi]

help

It's not worth it, Kev.

 

[Jack Remington]

There is a fuck-ton of liberal sexism out there.

Every time I see a Bernie supporter talk about how Hillary "cackles" or refer demeaningly to her pantsuit, I die a little inside. They should be better than that.

That's not the case. They have at least 22 emails that were classified. Some top secret or part of special access programs. Not knowing they were classified isn't an excuse, because like I said before some emails/topics are inherently classified and are born as such.

Holy shit, you're on the 22 SAP emails... most of those were a single email chain that started with a newspaper article referencing the drone program. That most closely-guarded secret of ours, the drone program. So secret they made a movie about it with Alan Rickman.

 

[Prinz Eugn]

That's not the case. They have at least 22 emails that were classified. Some top secret or part of special access programs. Not knowing they were classified isn't an excuse, because like I said before some emails/topics are inherently classified and are born as such.

That also doesn't account for the Guccifer emails (if they pan out to be true), and the missing emails from her IT person.



Whatever you have to tell yourself I guess?

What's it like to perceive time non-linearly?

 

[Hindl]

I just feel like too many people are brushing this off as nothing. You can pass it off as some grand conservative smear scheme, but I'm not buying it.

People have gotten pegged for lesser infractions when dealing with classified information. It's serious business. Not a hurdur I didn't know it was classified. That excuse doesn't fly.

Knowing or unknowingly it is against the law to store classified information on a private server, in addition to the fact that some communications are born classified. It has also been shown that there were top secret documents on there.

Each to their own, but I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up more than it has. I guess I'll leave it at that, but it's a cause for concern in my eyes.

I have to ask, do you think she should be punished based on what you know, or are you just worried that she might get got with unknown information? And further, assuming the FBI report comes out and 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt clears her of all wrong-doing, will you accept it? Or will you be upset because you think something should have been done?

 

[Bronx-Man]

There is a fuck-ton of liberal sexism out there.

Every time I see a Bernie supporter talk about how Hillary "cackles" or refer demeaningly to her pantsuit, I die a little inside. They should be better than that.

You always gotta keep an eye out on who your "allies" really are.

 

[shinra-bansho]

So what is the FBI investigating then?

Petraus, Brezler, and Deutch are similar scenarios.

All three got pegged, for less egregious infractions.

Wut. Petraeus was knowingly leaking classified documents to his mistress and biographer.

 

[Kangi]

You always gotta keep an eye out on who your "allies" really are.

Yep.

If I had a penny for every LGBT "ally" who'd sell me out for a free pack of gum, I could pay Hillary's bail money.

 

[shem935]

I'm just wondering about all this pegging that's apparently going on...

 

[Crayons]

I'm warming up to Hil

Spoiler

dawg

a bit day by day

At the end of the day, she's a very qualified candidate and agrees with most of my views. I'm not gonna wear her merch or anything but I'm rooting for her. Basically ever since Birdie lost New York I've known it was over.

There are a few things I disagree with her on but it's really nothing compared to the republicans. Lord help the batshit insane republicans

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Especially the ones yelling about how Bill Clinton's crime bill increased the prison population. Then they basically masturbate about their political opponent getting a perp-walk. They want a political opponent imprisoned because their guy can't win.

It gets absurd when you factor in that this is a Clinton. It's nonsensical to give this kind of 'scandal' the time of day all things considered, unless you have a vested interest in it being something that you want it to be. In that case, there is plenty of grey area to work with.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I just feel like too many people are brushing this off as nothing. You can pass it off as some grand conservative smear scheme, but I'm not buying it.

People have gotten pegged for lesser infractions when dealing with classified information. It's serious business. Not a hurdur I didn't know it was classified. That excuse doesn't fly.

Knowing or unknowingly it is against the law to store classified information on a private server, in addition to the fact that some communications are born classified. It has also been shown that there were top secret documents on there.

Each to their own, but I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up more than it has. I guess I'll leave it at that, but it's a cause for concern in my eyes.

Wut. Where is the statute.

 

[B-Dubs]

That's not the case. They have at least 22 emails that were classified. Some top secret or part of special access programs. Not knowing they were classified isn't an excuse, because like I said before some emails/topics are inherently classified and are born as such.

That also doesn't account for the Guccifer emails (if they pan out to be true), and the missing emails from her IT person.

Those were classified after the fact. At the time they were not classified. Also, I seem to remember a bunch of them just being NYTimes articles on drone strikes.

 

[dramatis]

Whatever you have to tell yourself I guess?

Are you really going to suggest someone else is deluding themselves when you are the one deluding yourself into believing that Hillary is going to be indicted?

 

[Godslay]

What's it like to perceive time non-linearly?

That's not how it works. Born classified.

I have to ask, do you think she should be punished based on what you know, or are you just worried that she might get got with unknown information? And further, assuming the FBI report comes out and 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt clears her of all wrong-doing, will you accept it? Or will you be upset because you think something should have been done?

I just envision a nightmare scenario.

FBI finds enough evidence to go forward, Hillary gets indicted, and it sinks her campaign. Which opens the door for Trump. Nobody wants to deal with that shit, and by the looks of it there is plenty of evidence out there for it to go forward. I mean she's not a great candidate to begin with, but this would make it worse imo.

This isn't some cooked up scenario to get Bernie in. There should be a backup scenario in the case that she falls through though.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Joe Biden is the party's back up.

 

[diaspora]

Joe Biden is the party's back up.

Vadernoooo

 

[B-Dubs]

That's not how it works. Born classified.



I just envision a nightmare scenario.

FBI finds enough evidence to go forward, Hillary gets indicted, and it sinks her campaign. Which opens the door for Trump. Nobody wants to deal with that shit, and by the looks of it there is plenty of evidence out there for it to go forward. I mean she's not a great candidate to begin with, but this would make it worse imo.

This isn't some cooked up scenario to get Bernie in. There should be a backup scenario in the case that she falls through though.

If that was possible the investigation would be looking a lot different from where we're sitting. Also, they'd parachute Biden in at the convention and he'd just roll Trump.

Seriously though, the e-mails you're talking about were classified after the fact. If they weren't classified at the time there was no way for her to know that they'd be classified later unless she's a Trafamadorian.

 

[Jack Remington]

If it comes to that, the Justice Department will just sit on the case.

Remember the FBI cannot indict.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

That's not how it works. Born classified.



I just envision a nightmare scenario.

FBI finds enough evidence to go forward, Hillary gets indicted, and it sinks her campaign. Which opens the door for Trump. Nobody wants to deal with that shit, and by the looks of it there is plenty of evidence out there for it to go forward. I mean she's not a great candidate to begin with, but this would make it worse imo.

This isn't some cooked up scenario to get Bernie in. There should be a backup scenario in the case that she falls through though.

They'll run somebody else. That's the backup scenario. It's the same backup scenario they have if she slips in the tub. You're saying things like "backup scenario" that have no meaning.

 

[Godslay]

Well, I feel better.

All sunshine and rainbows from here on out.

Sorry to disturb the peace.

 

[Fenderputty]

I agree with whoever said that emailGate is the new version of the birther issue of 08.

 

[pigeon]

FBI finds enough evidence to go forward, Hillary gets indicted, and it sinks her campaign. Which opens the door for Trump. Nobody wants to deal with that shit, and by the looks of it there is plenty of evidence out there for it to go forward. I mean she's not a great candidate to begin with, but this would make it worse imo.

This isn't some cooked up scenario to get Bernie in. There should be a backup scenario in the case that she falls through though.

Again, I want to ask: is your theory here that you're way smarter than everybody who works for the Democratic Party?

Their entire job is to worry about scenarios that might lose elections.

It's pretty clear that they have considered this scenario and determined that it's basically not worth thinking about.

So why are you so confident that they're wrong?

 

[Spoiled Milk]

So why are you so confident that they're wrong?

I just wanted to say that this is the same logic that took us into Iraq.