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[shinra-bansho]

Their relative standing is decreasing. Wimmens are out of the kitchen. The gays can hold hands in the street. The blacks are even in some boardrooms.

I don't think there's a need to shy away from that. And my response is really just get over it.

Economically while everyone pretends the world has turned to shit. It really hasn't. Cost of living is not dramatically higher because of evil globalisation reducing cost of goods. Standards of living have improved.

 

[Godslay]

Sounds like this 'Security Review' is getting pretty serious.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Donald Trump's voters are the same people who made Rush Limbaugh rich as hell - pissed off white dudes who make a middle class living, but now have to deal with a world where they're no longer treated like kings "like their Dad was." They're salesmen, middle management, etc.

Also, as a side note, Freddie Deboer is a one man argument against every humanities department on the planet.

 

[3phemeral]

Has Warren even endorsed GodEmpress yet?

Close enough...?

 

[ugaboga232]

Their relative standing is decreasing. Wimmens are out of the kitchen. The gays can hold hands in the street. The blacks are even in some boardrooms.

I don't think there's a need to shy away from that. And my response is really just get over it.

Economically while everyone pretends the world has turned to shit. It really hasn't. Cost of living is not dramatically higher because of evil globalisation reducing cost of goods. Standards of living have improved.

Eh economically the world is def doing better, but in america, incomes have stagnated (unless all those studies LIED) and don't a lot of people feel like things are doing badly? Even if its just a feeling, feels can be more real than the truth.

 

[Black Mamba]

Racial Resentment is one part of it but I think the other part, which is more important, is that the Trump voters have been misled so long they don't know up from down.

A lot of well off Republicans have been completely duped into thinking the world is on fire. That foreign relations is awful. Do you know how many professionals have argued to me that the rest of the world looks down on us since Obama took over? That Europe doesn't like us now and he's ruined our great relationships?

Or that the economy is in the shitter. People literally arguing with me that the economy was better the day before he took office than right now. People who are convinced the ACA is an unmitigated disaster. That the UE rate is false and we're far worse off now than in 2008/2009/

Race relations is worse because of Obama, too. If not for him, we'd be better off. Oh, and the dirty poors get all this free stuff and are living the life while they struggle to pay the mortgage on a house they never should have bought.

These people have been told that if they just vote GOP, they'll solve it. They'll stop the ACA, improve the economy, etc. Meanwhile, as those GOP people keep losing, these people get frustrated with them. They're told they're "losing" at everything, everything is a mess, and now the people who promise to fix it, won't. Oh, and all this from someone who might not even be born here!

So they just moved on from one con man to another. And this one is different than the others because he's from the outside. And he has a "proven" record of winning.

The GOP, as a whole, has been a gigantic con since 2008. Okay, arguably before then, but it got turned up to 11. So these voters are predisposed to being duped.

it's not surprising that Trump won them over. These people are generally idiots. But they're idiots frustrated that the first set of buffoons that conned them didn't come through, so now they're onto the next one.

This is what happens when you intentionally keep your voters misled and uninformed to such an immense degree. Stare into the abyss long enough, yada yada.

 

[Emarv]

A Bernie supporter friend asked me why Obama hasn't endorsed Hillary yet. I said "probably waiting until after the convention because he's smart. Can you imagine to cries of establishment collusion if he did?" He said, "Idk, what if he knows something we don't? There's got to be a reason."

I asked him why Warren hasn't endorsed Sanders? Could it be because she's smart? "Idk, but it pisses me off and doesn't make any sense! She should endorse him already."

 

[Macho Madness]

Also, as a side note, Freddie Deboer is a one man argument against every humanities department on the planet.

I agree with a few things he says but the bulk of it is completely nutty.

That's not even mentioning his attitude.

 

[shinra-bansho]

So you'll note I didn't mention income because I'll fully agree that real income has not grown well. But I'm noting that standard of living has improved not declined regardless of feels.

 

[Jack Remington]

Sounds like this 'Security Review' is getting pretty serious.

I don't really see any indication of that.

 

[ugaboga232]

So you'll note I didn't mention income because I'll fully agree that real income has not grown well. But I'm noting that standard of living has improved not declined regardless of feels.

Sadly our brains run on feels instead of reals. And telling someone about the reals probably won't change their feels (if only anxiety and depression listened to reals).

Good to know standard of living has improved though, hopefully automation doesn't muck things up.

Something something, inception was right (the condition where you think you smell bad always has an absymally high suicide rate even though cognitively everything else is normal, how we feel is absurdly important, sorry for the tangent).

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Racial Resentment is one part of it but I think the other part, which is more important, is that the Trump voters have been misled so long they don't know up from down.

A lot of well off Republicans have been completely duped into thinking the world is on fire. That foreign relations is awful. Do you know how many professionals have argued to me that the rest of the world looks down on us since Obama took over? That Europe doesn't like us now and he's ruined our great relationships?

Or that the economy is in the shitter. People literally arguing with me that the economy was better the day before he took office than right now. People who are convinced the ACA is an unmitigated disaster. That the UE rate is false and we're far worse off now than in 2008/2009/

Race relations is worse because of Obama, too. If not for him, we'd be better off. Oh, and the dirty poors get all this free stuff and are living the life while they struggle to pay the mortgage on a house they never should have bought.

These people have been told that if they just vote GOP, they'll solve it. They'll stop the ACA, improve the economy, etc. Meanwhile, as those GOP people keep losing, these people get frustrated with them. They're told they're "losing" at everything, everything is a mess, and now the people who promise to fix it, won't. Oh, and all this from someone who might not even be born here!

So they just moved on from one con man to another. And this one is different than the others because he's from the outside. And he has a "proven" record of winning.

The GOP, as a whole, has been a gigantic con since 2008. Okay, arguably before then, but it got turned up to 11. So these voters are predisposed to being duped.

it's not surprising that Trump won them over. These people are generally idiots. But they're idiots frustrated that the first set of buffoons that conned them didn't come through, so now they're onto the next one.

This is what happens when you intentionally keep your voters misled and uninformed to such an immense degree. Stare into the abyss long enough, yada yada.

I just think racism is prime mover and starts and continues them down that path.

 

[hawk2025]

Eh economically the world is def doing better, but in america, incomes have stagnated (unless all those studies LIED) and don't a lot of people feel like things are doing badly? Even if its just a feeling, feels can be more real than the truth.

Incomes have stagnated in financial terms, but the quality-adjusted basket of goods is *significantly* higher.

Standards of living are up across the board.

 

[ugaboga232]

Incomes have stagnated in financial terms, but the quality-adjusted basket of goods is *significantly* higher.

Standards of living are up across the board.

I agree that everyone gets much better access to goods, but what about necessities/more basic things like owning a house and financial security/etc.?

 

[Wag]

Why won't Trump release his tax returns? What is he hiding?

Spoiler

Hookers and blow?

 

[shinra-bansho]

I can't remember where I was reading it, and I may have mentioned it before, but what has thus far gotten progressively more expensive are services even as goods decline in cost. So what needs disruption is provision of things like tertiary education. (And magically making it free isn't going to help.)

Housing stock has gotten more expensive.

What do you mean by financial security?

 

[Jack Remington]

Obama and Lynch need to give the FBI a hard stop of say, June 1st. The presidential election is frankly way too important to allow Comey to continue indulging his fantasies of being a Very Big Important Person.

 

[Crayons]

Why won't Trump release his tax returns? What is he hiding?

Spoiler

Hookers and blow?

*snorts a line* "I love the blacks. The blacks love me. Some of my best friends are black. We're gonna build a wall. It's gonna be HUUUUUGE. Mexico's going to pay for it.

 

[Officerrob]

Sounds like this 'Security Review' is getting pretty serious.

No matter how many times you post this stuff in NFL-GAF, it doesn't make it any truer to post it here

 

[Black Mamba]

I just think racism is prime mover and starts and continues them down that path.

For some, not others.

You're in New York. Talk to Trump voters who are non-racist professionals. A lot of them exist in your neck of the woods.

A lot of this stuff can be region-centric.

Why won't Trump release his tax returns? What is he hiding?

Spoiler

Hookers and blow?

Realistically, he's probably not nearly as rich as he wants us to believe. Imagine if he wasn't even a billionaire.

 

[hawk2025]

I agree that everyone gets much better access to goods, but what about necessities/more basic things like owning a house and financial security/etc.?

You would have to define financial security a little better. Different indices of quality of life incorporate things such as home ownership in different ways.

Especially as the economy changes and things such as car and house ownership have a significantly different impact on standards of living than it did decades ago, it's hard to objectively incorporate things like home ownership into indices.

The point is simply that the same inflation-adjusted salary of $X buys a significantly higher quality basket of goods today than it did in the past.

 

[ugaboga232]

I can't remember where I was reading it, and I may have mentioned it before, but what has thus far gotten progressively more expensive are services even as goods decline in cost. So what needs disruption is provision of things like tertiary education. (And magically making it free isn't going to help.)

Housing stock has gotten more expensive.

~Magic~ (i read a study that college educated people are generally better citizens and that leads me to believe more college is better in this increasingly complicated world but the massive caveat of correlation vs causation should be headed here, I do think similar to healthcare the problem is treating something that is becoming/is a utility like a commodity and unless you change the incentive structures/system itself, it doesnt matter who or how you pay for it, its gonna be expensive).

You would have to define financial security a little better. Different indices of quality of life incorporate things such as home ownership in different ways.

Especially as the economy changes and things such as car and house ownership have a significantly different impact on standards of living than it did decades ago.

The point is simply that the same inflation-adjusted salary of $X buys a significantly higher quality basket of goods today than it did in the past.

I agree completely, goods and cool shit is cheaper than ever. I would wager that doesn't make as big of a mental/emotional difference as it would logically seem to and contributes to why people feel like things are going poorly even though they have the equivalent of 20 year old super computers in their pocket. The sad curse of humanity is that we can grow accustomed to pretty much anything and need much more for our next fix (blame whoever designed us like Ben Carson).

 

[itschris]

In 2008, CNN (and other networks) declared that Obama had clinched the nomination after South Dakota on June 3rd, when his combination of pledged delegates and superdelegates crossed the magic number:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81hCFwsnfJI

Do you think they'll do the same thing this time (most likely on June 7th when California, New Jersey, etc. vote), or might they be more hesitant with Sanders' claims that he'll contest the convention and get superdelegates to switch?

 

[Voysa Reezun]

Romney hitting Trump on not releasing his returns is pretty fucking funny.

Re: stupidity of the GOP voter, the distinction between stupidity and ignorance is important to me, mostly because I think that most voters are stupid by that metric, and the GOP voter isn't particularly special. Look at the amount of Sanders voters or people who are flirting with the Green Party who believe things that don't make any fucking sense (and as far as something like trade, Sanders voters and Trump voters believe the same things).

Shit, I think that I'm stupid by that metric. I've had to develop my positions on everything from gay marriage to free trade, but it took time, and experience, and lots of reading and talking to people who know more than me. I am lucky to have had that opportunity. I can't imagine what I would be like without those things - maybe the type of voter that people scorn. Probably.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

For some, not others.

You're in New York. Talk to Trump voters who are non-racist professionals. A lot of them exist in your neck of the woods.

A lot of this stuff can be region-centric.



Realistically, he's probably not nearly as rich as he wants us to believe. Imagine if he wasn't even a billionaire.

Trump didn't win Manhattan and didn't win non-racist professionals Kasich did. If they're voting for trump now its because they want lower taxes or less government. I mean some now will be non-racist but they didn't win him the primary (trump won most of his states with less than 50% )

 

[digdug2k]

Incomes have stagnated in financial terms, but the quality-adjusted basket of goods is *significantly* higher.

Standards of living are up across the board.

Are there stats on this? I've always thought that appliances and furniture made 50-60 years ago were of much higher quality than what's available today. If you start factoring in energy-efficiency or safety of the materials involved... maybe they're not? But I think the difference is probably more that the really low end of those goods didn't exist back then? i.e. I don't know that you could buy a really really shitty stove in the 50s, but maybe they're all just in landfills so I only see the good ones out and still in use (but I still doubt you could buy any thing today that would last you 50 years).

 

[Y2Kev]

I know you look at macro and not micro but how could there be a swing that big in one week of polling? Wtf Reuters. Receipts please.

 

[shinra-bansho]

~Magic~ (i read a study that college educated people are generally better citizens and that leads me to believe more college is better in this increasingly complicated world but the massive caveat of correlation vs causation should be headed here, I do think similar to healthcare the problem is treating something that is becoming/is a utility like a commodity and unless you change the incentive structures/system itself, it doesnt matter who or how you pay for it, its gonna be expensive).

I mean the social benefit is why as a society even the backwater US subsidises tertiary education to a degree. There's question of whether that benefit exceeds cost.

I'm not sure what you mean by commoditisation of utilities...

The value of education has been commoditised due to credential creep?

 

[JesseEwiak]

The GOP, as a whole, has been a gigantic con since 2008. Okay, arguably before then, but it got turned up to 11. So these voters are predisposed to being duped.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. The difference between the GOP of 1996 and 2016 is that in 1996, the party was mostly full of people who knew what they were selling was bullshit. The party in 2016 is full of people who listed to Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, and the like in the 90's and believed everything.

 

[ugaboga232]

I mean the social benefit is why as a society even the backwater US subsidises tertiary education to a degree. There's question of whether that benefit exceeds cost.

I'm not sure what you mean by commoditisation of utilities...

The value of education has been commoditised due to credential creep?

I meant like, as of now, we nickle and dime everything for healthcare and treat it like a good (hence all the free market talk on the republican side, not that they are bastion of health care policy but from my view as a medical professional in training, the healthcare system is a utility being run like a commodity which causes all sorts of problems). College is a bit different in that it is probably not quite important enough to be called a true utility, but it is becoming more and more important for crappy reasons like credentialism. I guess my whole commodity vs utility thing applies much better to healthcare but I see some similarities (because of the weird way of funding for both, very little incentive to minimize costs hence huge healthcare costs and tons of waste as well as massive growth of college tuition, textbook prices, etc.).

 

[whyamihere]

In 2008, CNN (and other networks) declared that Obama had clinched the nomination after South Dakota on June 3rd, when his combination of pledged delegates and superdelegates crossed the magic number:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81hCFwsnfJI

Do you think they'll do the same thing this time (most likely on June 7th when California, New Jersey, etc. vote), or might they be more hesitant with Sanders' claims that he'll contest the convention and get superdelegates to switch?

I assume they'll do it with pledged delegates.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Holy Crap. For the first time in my life I got a active call from the FLORIDA democratic party, not for funds but to ask to meet other volunteers to see how we can "defeat donald trump and elect democrats all the way down ticket"

That's very encouraging they're reaching out this early and so personally (no ask for money). That's going to get good volunteers and get people to buy in which is so vital and helped Obama so much.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I know you look at macro and not micro but how could there be a swing that big in one week of polling? Wtf Reuters. Receipts please.

nomination bump?

are there crosstabs. Could be republican voters coming home? independents flirting with trump after his win and massive media coverage?

 

[Black Mamba]

Trump didn't win Manhattan and didn't win non-racist professionals Kasich did. If they're voting for trump now its because they want lower taxes or less government. I mean some now will be non-racist but they didn't win him the primary (trump won most of his states with less than 50% )

The average Trump voter in NY earned $85k.

All the GOP candidates are promising massive tax cuts. That's not the answer.

 

[Macho Madness]

In 2008, CNN (and other networks) declared that Obama had clinched the nomination after South Dakota on June 3rd, when his combination of pledged delegates and superdelegates crossed the magic number:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81hCFwsnfJI

Do you think they'll do the same thing this time (most likely on June 7th when California, New Jersey, etc. vote), or might they be more hesitant with Sanders' claims that he'll contest the convention and get superdelegates to switch?

June 7th, yes.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Dan Quayle speaking against Trump tomorrow.

So it's come to this.

 

[itschris]

I wonder if Sanders will start complaining about the media calling it for Hillary (saying how superdelegates don't count until the convention, etc). Unless he finally drops out after June 7th.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I think you're using commodity and utility in quite different contexts to what I'm used to in this context.

 

[gcubed]

I make a nice living.
I'd like to pay less in taxes.


I'm not enough of a piece of shit to vote for such a human being because of that

 

[ugaboga232]

I think you're using commodity and utility in quite different contexts to what I'm used to in this context.

Yes I most certainly am, I meant more in a philosophical sense (compare our healthcare to UHC countries that don't have Single payer and a lot of them have heavy private utilization but with restrictions/rules that achieve the same goal as single payer systems for the most part) that in america we treat healthcare like a good more than something pretty much everyone will do anything for (distorting all that AP econ which is sadly the extent of my econ background).

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Breaking Cliff Clavin endorsed trump

 

[Grief.exe]

Found this video after watching that Obama clench video in 2008

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYoUpQR2sw&t=02m51s

This is exactly what I hear Rush and his listeners talk about everyday, and I'm assuming Bill O'Reily mentions it frequently as well. I'm assuming if you ask the Conservative base to mark on a pie chart how they believe the budget to be made up of they will be putting it at 20% welfare to minorities, and 20% spent on illegal immigrants.

It's so absurd when you consider the reality of 50% of our entire budget going to our retired generation, then that generation nearly ubiquitously voting in this right wing leadership that calls younger people entitled on top of being global warming deniers.

The overt racism is disgusting alone, but the complete divorce from reality always gets me.

I'm guessing a plurality of welfare not only flows from blue states to red states, higher education per capita, higher salary per capita, but also flows directly to white people. Source needed.

EDIT:

I just died

EDIT2:

Here is the exact same rhetoric from Rush himself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeXRNdpX2wo&t=00m55s

 

[Teggy]

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
If it were up to goofy Elizabeth Warren, we’d have no jobs in America—she doesn’t have a clue.

Sick burn, Trump.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The average Trump voter in NY earned $85k.

All the GOP candidates are promising massive tax cuts. That's not the answer.

Is that house hold income? What is that vs. kasich and cruz? I don't think most of those people are non-racist professionals. I think they're more often or not racist. That a few weren't doesn't negate the idea that he won with racists, not idiots

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Trump moving way further to the right after getting the nomination is bizarre. Why would you start your GE campaign by talking about cutting Medicare and Social Security benefits? Is it a begging for money from donors thing?

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Sick burn, Trump.

Oh man she's in his head hahahahahahaha

 

[gutter_trash]

Dan Quayle speaking against Trump tomorrow.

So it's come to this.

ah, Dan Quayle . Potato-E

 

[zero_suit]

Sick burn, Trump.

Elementary school level attacks from someone approaching 70...

 

[Officerrob]

Sick burn, Trump.

I'm shocked how badly Warren is winning their Twitter war.

 

[gutter_trash]

Trump moving way further to the right after getting the nomination is bizarre. Why would you start your GE campaign by talking about cutting Medicare and Social Security benefits? Is it a begging for money from donors thing?

eeeeeek! even Dubya wouldn't go there. Dubya valued to old people vote