You can still win state/local elections. See: WV.
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Not synonymous, more like the opposite of triangulation. Instead of pushing yourself as an independent moderate to win over the other bases voters, you passionately argue the same message independent of the voter and try to get them riled up. Kander would be the most recent example of this. The goal is to make voters of the other party think you're on their side and fighting for them in spite of ideological differences.
Perriello talks about it here and I'd highly recommend a listen if you're interested.
Rove/base-style politics are more about getting same-sex marriage bans on the ballot to motivate your base to heavy turnout, conviction politics still involves winning over the other parties voters but comes about it in a way different from triangulation.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Uhh, not in the South anymore.
We had control of almost every state government in the South prior to Obama and now we have control of none of them. We even lost Kentucky to a bunch of goons who would like to turn coal miners into fuel.
Black president + lack of 50 state strategy = of course that would happen.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
One might wonder what the point of winning school board elections in Alabama is if they're just going to be Republicans anyways.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
It's weird that the GOP has such a boring and confusing legislative agenda.
Now that they're sweating about Obamacare, their top priority is... lowering the corporate tax rate and paying for it with an extremely complicated pseudo tariff which in the long-run is just a tax on old people.
It's like... I thought that they would be more united and have bigger goals than this.
This is like if Obama's main priority in 2008 was a slight increase in the EITC that was paid for by an extremely complicated tax scheme no one understood and wasn't even supported by 70% of his party.
Now that they're sweating about Obamacare, their top priority is... lowering the corporate tax rate and paying for it with an extremely complicated pseudo tariff which in the long-run is just a tax on old people.
It's like... I thought that they would be more united and have bigger goals than this.
This is like if Obama's main priority in 2008 was a slight increase in the EITC that was paid for by an extremely complicated tax scheme no one understood and wasn't even supported by 70% of his party.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
In red states, it's about making people say "I don't agree with all your policies, but I trust you have our best interests at heart and I trust you to fight for me over the slimy politician that I would usually vote for".
It's kinda the "policies don't matter, image does" school of politics, but the way you talk about your policies sort of builds your image.
EDIT:
You might want to also hit the anti-abortion/pro-gun issue for the single issue voters in states that it makes sense to, but it would need convictions strongly opposed to certain republican ideals to not make you Republican-lite. I'd say the same for having socially liberal/fiscally conservative priciples with strong conviction on socially liberal issues in some other states too, but I honestly don't think there's a single state where that makes sense.
BadenBadenLily
Banned
There's only so much you can pass through reconciliation.
Most of the stuff they want couldn't get 55 votes let alone 60.
JBE only won partly because Vitter was awful and he hit the right buttons on previous military experince, pro-gun, pro-life etc
If you think they're going to be the same fucking thing, the green party is right there.
I read "fun to relax into racist tendencies" and immediately leaped to how Cards Against Humanity basically makes saying awful things that would never be socially acceptable, be totally socially acceptable.
The GG link isn't a new one - Matt Lees (CoolGhosts/DaftSouls/ShutUpandSitDown) wrote this in December last year: What Gamergate should have taught us about the 'alt-right'
The GG link isn't a new one - Matt Lees (CoolGhosts/DaftSouls/ShutUpandSitDown) wrote this in December last year: What Gamergate should have taught us about the 'alt-right'
NobleXenon
Member
Past NobleXenon would have been upset by this, but current and future NobleXenon doesn't care. Maybe because those born before 1970 have an extremely low chance of making it to the singularity and I shouldn't concern myself - and/or - I just developed a deep spite for the malicious & stupid over time.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I didn't mean "both sides are the same" generally, I just meant that a 50 state strategy guy we get elected in Alabama is probably a Republican, where it's like, what's the point.
RastaMentality
Banned
this is soooo fucking true. the alt right isn't baby boomer rural whites on facebook. it's millennial white dude gamers who evolved out of gamer gate. people never thought the 4chan poison would actually spill out into anything relevant and here we are.
excelsiorlef
Member
It also exposed the effectiveness of attacking the media. Once decent places like The Escapist capitulated almost immediately and in the case of The Escapist actively joined in... they also start going after mainstream press too.... Milo isn't an idiot he knew exactly what he was doing... it's why people should really stop normalizing him
This is the end result of two decades of don't feed the trolls
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Oh wow, the courts blocked NC repubs
They are weak minded dipshits and we should never feel sorry for them. They think they are part of something bigger but their collective stupidity is only eclipsed by their irrelevance.
They might think that they propelled Orange shitbag to the presidency and brought upon a world of pain for millions. But not even Orange rapist has any respect for them. They will eventually fade like the worthless trolls they are.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Get ready because I'm about to blow your mind:
The GOP has no agenda beyond opposing whatever Obama did or wanted.
Once Obamacare repeal is off the docket, what's left? Criminalizing abortion? Not happening federally/legislatively. Shitting on the unions? Happening at the state level, not much left they can do elsewhere. Privatizing Social Security or block granting Medicaid/Medicare? I'd imagine most of the elected officials support it, but the leadership knows well enough not to go there.
The wall and the Muslim ban are Trump's things, not the party's. Ryan and crew have nothing. Nothing.
I remember arguing this, or something like it, a while back. GG led almost directly into what the Alt-right became. We can lay a lot of the blame for this stuff fermenting and germinating on the social media platforms not stamping it out right away. Is it any wonder that this stuff is on reddit, the chans, and twitter but not GAF? If you go by demographics we should be a hotbed of this shit but we aren't. GAF stamped out GG almost immediately so it never had time to ferment here.
I'll take her argument one step further: the world we're living right now in is partly the result of an unruly comments section that spun out of control. That's fucking insane.
excelsiorlef
Member
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I've seen stuff floating around for passing a national right-to-work law. They'll also do what they do best, cut taxes and run big deficits and then get really mad when a Democrat doesn't have a balanced budget.
I was 14 when Obama got elected though so I don't know how much got done by this time in 2009.
I was 14 when Obama got elected though so I don't know how much got done by this time in 2009.
Except the last 2 years has proved that incorrect. People thought they'd fade when GG was proved to just be a jilted-ex's attack on a woman. They didn't. People thought online abuse would calm down. It hasn't. And the people who took part in it have either joined the neo-nazi/white-nationalist ranks, or have basically given those groups the best playbook to run from they've ever got.
The only way we'll get rid of them is if we recognise how awful they are, and how much their abuse hurts people, and push against that.
And again, you are saying "both sides are the same, what's the point."
The point is that a Dem in Alabama might not be up to your lofty standards of unicorn socialism, but they're still NOT A REPUBLICAN. And that does make a difference. And the infrastructure we use to elect them in local races translates up to larger ones.
You live in Idaho. A red state. You're not going to get unicorns. Settle for the person in a horse costume. This is a lesson that people gay people intrinsicly understand, because we have had to compromise our entire post-puberty lives in way straight people never had to.
It also pushes back against the GOP's narrative if you have a Dem in place. Even if they're a DINO, they should still be able to oppose along broad party lines, like against a Hillary witch-hunt, say. Which means that you're not giving the GOP an unopposed story they can trot out to all the media, you're giving them someone they have to argue against.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
The whole point is that to win a Dem in Alabama means you need to be a Confederate flag toting white supremacist. I'm not saying "oh no they'll be a Manchin", I'm saying that investing money so that Richard Shelby types can get elected to attorney general is pointless. I'm fine with Tester or Bullock or JBE, but these people aren't going to win elections in Alabama without some sort of massive GOP fuckup.
Want to try and pick up the Kentucky governor's mansion? Go for it. But investing money in the deep south and probably the rural west is a giant waste of money that could go into fringe red states where it would be more useful.
Do you think I'm waiting for a socialist to come win here? I'd love it if Steve Bullock won an election here, but he won't and it's a waste of money to try.
We did have Walt Minnick for two years though, which was better than nothing but he was the only Democrat endorsed by the Tea Party lol
Hell I'd say the gap between GAF and Reddit is where the proof is. Almost identical demographically, both message boards with moderation teams, and yet one is a haven for the Alt-Right and the other isn't.
People complain about how heavy handed GAF's moderation can be at times, but if Reddit, Facebook, and Twitter had the same standards the world would look very different right now.
The Social Media companies allowed this shit to germinate. It may have fermented on the chans, but social media is what allowed it to propagate. Before social media this shit was limited to the dark corners of the internet, but they gave them a stage to shout from and reach more people with. They might not deserve all the blame, but they deserve a huge chunk of it.
metalslimer
Member
That's why I found all the post election talk about the need to tone down identity politics so disturbing. It would literally be conceding that the people from gamergate were right. That kind of ideology would only spread and then crop up again the second someone mentioned something about inclusion.
Abinash117
Member
Yup. My thought exactly.
I think that is mostly true. Usually it is left-wing people who focus mostly on economic injustice that are pushing it. The thing is that most of them do not make up the party; I think are Dem-leaners and no political affiliated people, and are being opportunistic. If anything is to go by identity politics will probably be a bigger focus now because of Trump.
It is ironic though, cratering to the WWC is in fact identity politics. The thing is that they become the default demographic to crater to. The anger and the feeling of the Democrats being out of touch is the result of the Dems shifting strategies - perhaps a little to quickly. The WWC and the white middle class was cratered for decades now, their upbringing of the need to achieve the American Dream, and the system that doesn't seem to work for them that much as it was before, is perhaps, is what is making them feel abandoned.
Yeah, he "hit the right buttons". Democrats will need candidates who do so to win in that area of the country, like I said.
Picking up Dem seats where you can protect your constituents from the R's bullshit is NOT A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Did Bannon use chemical weapons against people other than Kurdish fighters? This seems oddly specific about who was targeted with chemical weapons.
... I think a lot of horrible dictators can actually get the same score as Bannon on this!
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
This chart is kind of amazing. DEMOCRATS SAY BANNON IS BAD, BUT HAS HE LEAD A TERRORIST MOVEMENT THAT'S MURDERED LOADS OF PEOPLE?
I guess the past Republican leadership includes a couple war criminals, a rapist, a child rapist, and a guy who said all America's problems come from not electing Strom Thurmond, so it's like, low bar there. No wonder Paul Ryan is so photogenic!
I remember when Fox News and House Republicans called for Van Jones's resignation because a video of a speech surfaced where he called Republicans assholes. Now the standard seems to be "as long as he didn't commit genocide..."
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Why is Fox news sticking up for the former executive chairman of breitbart
EDIT: Jesus Christ MeantToBe, post pictures with context. This was on Tucker Carlson!
EDIT: Jesus Christ MeantToBe, post pictures with context. This was on Tucker Carlson!
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
In hindsight, maybe we should have been worried about the large amount of generic memes starting on 4chan that spread to all across the internet, including facebook, twitter and reddit.
We would not have Medicaid Expansion if Vitter won so it does matter. Yeah JBE may have to work with an R legislature but he has veto power and EO authority.
Funny they used to hate it and gripe, now it fuels their bullshit. Even funnier they still hate it and bitch.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I just said that I'm fine with JBE types? I don't think you can just run people like him and spend a lot of money and hope they'll succeed without the kind of scandals Vitter had and the shittiness of Jindal also working overtime. I'd honestly love if someone as far left as JBE was my governor, but I don't think anyone that isn't to the right of that and probably as non-explicitly white nationalist is going to win Deep South or rural west elections without those kind of incredibly favorable circumstances.
I just don't think using limited resources to bump the Mississippi state house's number of Democrats up by two so that now it's 58-32 instead of 60-30 is going to really make a difference, especially since those state representatives are probably to the right of JBE.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I thought that for a minute, but some of Hitler's victims in the Holocaust were Poles and the disabled and many of those people were Christian.
Obviously, they were not executed for their Christianity, however.
The Pharaoh from the book of Exodus has the same score as Bannon though!
Yeah, I read it as "mass executions because of their Christianity", but it can be interpreted both ways.
Either way, it's such a small point to be arguing, when it's fairly obvious that Bannon is now Hitler.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The Emperor of Japan during WW2 has the same score as Bannon, omg.
This is exactly what Rahm and Obama thought. Turns out, they were fucking wrong wrong wrong. You have to have the infrastructure in place for when waves turn and opportunities arise.
yup. You gotta have the infrastructure in place so when the wave happens you are prepared. Democrats have at one point in time were successful to an extent in west rural states. Tester, Baucus, Nelson, Dorgan, Johnson, Daschle etc all did something right to win in hostile red territory going back to the 80's.
I understand Idaho last had Church as a Democratic Senator in the 70's, and last D Governor since 94 but eventually they will if they play their cards toward the future 5, 10 & 15 years it could happen.
"The rural west like Idaho, Kansas, Wyoming etc will stay red forever so why bother" is not going to turn them blue one day by itself.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Steve Bannon could use chemical weapons against a bunch of people in China and still have the same score then as he does now.
This system seems flawed.
This system seems flawed.
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