CrimzonSamurai
Member
In what reasonable context could anyone claim FOIA as a negative?
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love
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In what reasonable context could anyone claim FOIA as a negative?
benjipwns
Banned
Lets Republicans and other vile cretins like reporters request documents they shouldn't have access to like e-mails of the Secretary of State or fake award-winning employees that work for the EPA.
Although, amusingly, CREW (whose FOIA request originally led to uncovering Hillary's private server) is a progressive group.
EDIT: https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...301168-e162-11e5-846c-10191d1fc4ec_story.html
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Jack Remington (username) used to. He wasn't cool with a lot of the FOIA requests that led to scandal for Obama.
edit: And surely we've said FOIA often enough to summon Metaphoreous, thought maybe you need a mirror for that.
LoftyTheMetroid
Member
So, I attended Cotton's town hall last week and was eager to see Boozman get the same treatment on Friday during his town hall... but then he went chickenshit by cancelling it and holding a "telephone town hall" this evening instead. I listened to it... biggest waste of one and a half hours I've had in awhile. Didn't even get to ask a question.
Anyway, I had a couple thoughts during the town hall that I feel like are obvious, but I don't hear them brought up often. I was wondering if any of you know if these are common arguments, and if not, if there's an obvious reason or counterargument the GOP uses.
1) Republicans talk a lot about tax cuts aimed at "job creators"... but if this was their genuine goal, why aren't these cuts instead distributed as tax credits for actually creating jobs? As in, you don't get the tax credit unless you create a job, and the amount you receive scales with the number or significance of jobs created.
2) Republicans claim gun-free zones are actually unsafe, and Trump himself wants to abolish gun-free zones across the country. If they genuinely believe this... why is Congress a gun-free zone? How come when I attend Tom Cotton's town hall... it's a gun-free event? Why don't they introduce legislation to abolish the gun-free zones specifically protecting them?
This latter point matters a lot to me because Arkansas is advancing a bill that would force the University of Arkansas (where I work) to allow firearms on campus, even though the school itself has consistently voted against this.
Anyway, I had a couple thoughts during the town hall that I feel like are obvious, but I don't hear them brought up often. I was wondering if any of you know if these are common arguments, and if not, if there's an obvious reason or counterargument the GOP uses.
1) Republicans talk a lot about tax cuts aimed at "job creators"... but if this was their genuine goal, why aren't these cuts instead distributed as tax credits for actually creating jobs? As in, you don't get the tax credit unless you create a job, and the amount you receive scales with the number or significance of jobs created.
2) Republicans claim gun-free zones are actually unsafe, and Trump himself wants to abolish gun-free zones across the country. If they genuinely believe this... why is Congress a gun-free zone? How come when I attend Tom Cotton's town hall... it's a gun-free event? Why don't they introduce legislation to abolish the gun-free zones specifically protecting them?
This latter point matters a lot to me because Arkansas is advancing a bill that would force the University of Arkansas (where I work) to allow firearms on campus, even though the school itself has consistently voted against this.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
On GAF tho?
lastflowers
Banned
Benji got us all at one point or another
Randolph Freelander
Member
To Betsy DeVos, HBCUs are proof that school choice works.
Ankit Panda‏ @nktpnd 17 minutes ago
Wowwowwow. These paragraphs are from a real, official US Department of Education statement from Betsy DeVos released today.
benjipwns
Banned
And cross my
lastflowers
Banned
Soundslegit.jiffylube
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
The idea is supposed to be that by taxes being lower that companies will invest in areas that are more profitable to them and in doing so create jobs just by virtue of the investment.
In reality this sort of works at the local and state levels and is worthless at the national level. An area lowering its taxes to make a "business friendly" climate probably won't pull in good jobs (my state, Idaho, brags about its conservative business-friendly policies making it a big job creating state but most of these are minimum wage jobs) because there's a million other places willing to cut you the same deal because of our relatively competitive federalism. What does "work" though is when businesses that want special tax cuts threaten capital flight on areas that economically depend on the capital to stay alive, they usually get their way. Boeing and Washington State are a good example of this, Washington wants the factories to stay in because a lot of people depend on them for jobs but Boeing wants to make more money so they threaten to leave if they don't get their special tax cut. The Carrier deal in Indiana was the same way.
This doesn't work on a national level because it businesses aren't really leaving or staying in the US based on tax policy afaik. Capital will leave if it's more profitable to leave and it will stay if it's more profitable to stay. Government, through taxes, can also create good jobs through public services anyways so it's not like all money taken through taxes are then just pissed into the wind.
I relate to this because my state did the same thing. There's no reason and they probably don't believe it, it's just an easy way to score points with the base without giving them anything meaningful.
Satire has become reality with this administration, and I've seen worse in the real world then benji's troll. It also wasn't creative, as this political climate he would have to go to an extreme just to be parody.
You must also consider that it is no longer a time for satire. A time for mockery is at hand, sure, but not satire. Satire is best used when the threat of extremism isn't at the doorsteps of democracy knocking saying "let's become a dictatorship." It's time to take it seriously and mock the trumpster fire.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
The second one is just a gotcha question that they'll dodge every time, though it's good for embarrassing them in these town halls (similar to the Cotton one where the woman asked him what his insurance was).
The first is a good point, and I suspect their best deflection would something like "That just means more gov't involved in private business" or some other nonsense. The real answer is that these tax cuts favor short term employment contracts (open a plant, take the tax break, then automate as soon as the tax break expires and lay everyone off), which the GOP is super fine with. It's how it rolls just south of you here in Mississippi, at least. I suspect our new billion-dollar holes in the ground (AKA Toyota and Nissan plants) will be totally automated in about 5 years, around when their tax cuts are to be phased out.
benjipwns
Banned
It's okay because it was mockery. It's always mockery.
And while we're on the subject, it's usually being facetious, not sarcasm. There's a difference.
StopMakingSense
Member
The thing is they already get a tax credit for creating a job, it's an expense.
Cutting business taxes also work in a way to discourage reinvestment. It's all kinda dumb.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
My favorite benji memory is when some poster started chasing him down in multiple different threads calling him out for "forgetting to log onto an alt" when benji replied to himself (as he often does)
benjipwns
Banned
Even better is some other dude said something like "if benji isn't greyed out in 24 hours i'm contacting the admins" and he technically got his wish, just the ban had nothing to do with any of that.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Donald Trump is an absolute monster.
LoftyTheMetroid
Member
Thanks for the answers!
And on the "job creator" front... it seems like the answers are normally in the context of businesses, which is an argument I'm going to set aside. What is weird to me about the "job creator" argument specifically is when it comes to individuals.
Unless you are an angel investor with your own personal funds, or you just hire a bunch of caretakers or something... people don't really create jobs with their own personal money, right? Even as the owner of a business, you hire employees through the business, yes?
It seems like such a minority of wealthy people would put their personal tax cuts towards actual job creation, which is why I thought an explicit tax credit (or something similar) would more explicitly incentivize the behavior we're trying to encourage.
And on the "job creator" front... it seems like the answers are normally in the context of businesses, which is an argument I'm going to set aside. What is weird to me about the "job creator" argument specifically is when it comes to individuals.
Unless you are an angel investor with your own personal funds, or you just hire a bunch of caretakers or something... people don't really create jobs with their own personal money, right? Even as the owner of a business, you hire employees through the business, yes?
It seems like such a minority of wealthy people would put their personal tax cuts towards actual job creation, which is why I thought an explicit tax credit (or something similar) would more explicitly incentivize the behavior we're trying to encourage.
benjipwns
Banned
whyamihere
Banned
Well, Cuomo's (probably) going to run.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/andrew-cuomo-new-york-2020-235403?cmpid=sf
I can't imagine that'll end in anything other than a disaster by Nevada, but hey, whatever.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/andrew-cuomo-new-york-2020-235403?cmpid=sf
I can't imagine that'll end in anything other than a disaster by Nevada, but hey, whatever.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
The idea is supposed to be that by giving more money to businesses, they'll invest that money and in doing so expand their business and hire new people to go along with it. They're not necessarily supposed to be angels, they're just Captains of Industry boldly building this country through their own sheer entrepreneurial spirit.
It's bad and it doesn't work but that's sort of the whole idea of supply-side/trickle-down/voodoo economics.
It's sort of a shame that he's a snake because his father would've been much better. His 1984 DNC speech is sooooo good.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
lol yeah Cuomo's gonna win those voters in the Midwest for sure
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Why did no one come up with a better name than State of the State for these?
metalslimer
Member
Ok first of all the Midwest cannot win you a dem primary. Second of all the dem base who will show up for these Midwest caucus states wants you to attack Trump. Cuomo is told smart to waste his time in 2020
benjipwns
Banned
I've always wondered why they go out of the way to call this first speech to Congress by the President not a State of the Union speech.
It doesn't say you can't give more than one a year or anything. Or even that you have had to be President.
insert standard complaint about giving speech in person rather than written, blaming racist tyrant Wilson, the grotesque nonsense of the whole affair, etc. etc.
Now slamming the door in the President's face until he has a Black Rod equivalent knock to gain entrance might get my attention.
Article II said:
It doesn't say you can't give more than one a year or anything. Or even that you have had to be President.
But it doesn't formally belong to them.
insert standard complaint about giving speech in person rather than written, blaming racist tyrant Wilson, the grotesque nonsense of the whole affair, etc. etc.
Now slamming the door in the President's face until he has a Black Rod equivalent knock to gain entrance might get my attention.
https://twitter.com/passantino/status/836407670227808261
sure. Obama is behind the protest. I totally NOT believe it.
sure. Obama is behind the protest. I totally NOT believe it.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
The West Wing was a mistake, it's nothing but trash.
whyamihere
Banned
CrimzonSamurai
Member
When I first started posting here I thought he was some crazy anarcho-communist who was so far outside of any known political ideology that he could never be banned because nobody ever knew what the hell he meant. I soon learned one of those wasn't entirely accurate.
I'm...ok with this?
It's not like Gorsuch is worse than Thomas.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
It's totally a pipe dream but it's not a terrible throwaway pass by Udall. Trump's whole shtick is that he's the freakin' Dealmaker and even though he totally won't take it I think it will be great referencing for Dem's filibustering Gorsuch for as long as possible if they actually have the stones.
"We tried to deal, but he's not here to fix Washington with bipartisanship he's just an ideologue."
Would hurt his whole "not the usual politician" BS for 2020. At least with some independents who just bought into the "outsider" nonsense. (The people who went from Bernie to Trump).
metalslimer
Member
Haha why would Trump give up the possibility of nominating another justice
Got exposed as complete and total bullshit multiple times.
The first takedown was someone with a background in language pointing out that they were making tons of bizarre misspellings that indicated their native language was Cyrillic (aka they're fucking Russian)
CrimzonSamurai
Member
Because Bannon and Reince will both be screaming "no" into each of his ears.
That's a really fucking awesome way to expose a fraud.
Kind of gives me hope that no matter how terribly ideological or government controlled the media may get there will be ways to find the truth.
benjipwns
Banned
the opposite of this is i assume why i do and don't get banned nowdays despite adhering to Goldwater's incendiary aphorism perpendicular to the standard alignment of the forum to the utter disbelief and eventual madness of some
enough of the current moderators can tell exactly when i'm slipped over into continued provoking for provocations sake versus my entirely consistent and coherent radical views
except for the case of Steve Youngblood, he's just afraid i'll finally reveal the whole truth and people will see it before he or his cronies can cover it up yet again
Yeah, the complaint from fake news posters is that the it isn't as effective on the left (as a whole) because someone always fact checks and ruins the party.
Catching the "-esk" instead of "-esque" and "Vakay" instead of "Vacay" pattern was impressive.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
What would be the tactical advantage of having something that imitates the impact of a nuclear arsenal by at 10 billion times the cost for maintenance.
I mean, MAD would still apply and now you just have more basically nukes and you are throwing away billions and billions of dollars more than you have to.
And it would take a lot longer for your nukes to hit America then it would be for our nukes to hit you.
Since every country is a lot closer to America than America is to the moon.
I mean, MAD would still apply and now you just have more basically nukes and you are throwing away billions and billions of dollars more than you have to.
And it would take a lot longer for your nukes to hit America then it would be for our nukes to hit you.
Since every country is a lot closer to America than America is to the moon.
benjipwns
Banned
There were those of us who fought against it, but in the end we could not keep up with the expense involved in the arms race, the space race, and the peace race. At the same time our people grumbled for more nylons and washing machines. Our doomsday scheme cost us just a small fraction of what we had been spending on defense in a single year. The deciding factor was when we learned that your country was working along similar lines, and we were afraid of a doomsday gap.
In fairness, that tweet was in the context of SpaceX and I guess Elon Musk turning into the villain from Moonraker? Something about the dangers of the privatization of space.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
But an example of a thing that would make no sense for any agent to do is very odd...
Like if a private individual tried to build a space weapon that imitated nukes, we would clearly assassinate them and everyone involved with the effort.
And it makes no sense for a country as I detailed above.
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